The Character of Kraft and Belichick

[Bad Morty]

Malcolm Butler was on the 'deflategate' team. Malcolm Butler just got humiliated by Bill on National TV and will be on another team in a few months. What a great way for him to get even, right? He could spill the whole story of deflategate...if there is a story to tell, that is.

[dgambill]

13 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

It is nice that people in the Colts organization & their fans think there is a rivalry....and, hopefully, that will come to fruition someday.

 

However, if you were in NE right now, neither the Pats nor their fans consider there is any kind of rivalry between the 2 teams right now.  TBH, I am not even sure when the last time they played each other was??

 

The Colts have bigger issues within their own division IMO.

Agreed...there hasn't been much a rivalry...especially after the AFC Championship game a few years ago. It was one sided at first...and then it went back and forth in the late 2000s. So I understand NE wouldn't see us any differently then say San Diego etc....but let's be honest...do you think Kraft doesn't get something extra out of kicking us...whether it's talking about old games and goal line stops...this most recent coaching drama...or even when he likes to troll other teams like the 283 diamonds in their SB ring. He likes it...and that's fine that is up to him. I think what the Colts were saying is it's back on...because we had viewed it in the past....made good faith trades even with you and was looking to hire one of your assistants...we didn't view there to be any bad blood there...but clearly...there was some...and now obviously we are fired up about it too. Maybe you guys will still dominate us...but you guys are once again a circle game....and we will be looking to stick it to you going forward. Like I said...it might not happen this year...or the next...but this team now has a reason...even if you don't...and they will be taking it out on the field. That's all.

3 minutes ago, Bad Morty said:

Malcolm Butler was on the 'deflategate' team. Malcolm Butler just got humiliated by Bill on National TV and will be on another team in a few months. What a great way for him to get even, right? He could spill the whole story of deflategate...if there is a story to tell, that is.

OMG....lets be done with this. Nobody is agreeing....and why would Butler know anything about the equipment or the managers jobs or Brady's cell phone etc. I think the point was that there were a couple of people that were directly implicated in things and the NFL was pretty well given the run around and stone walled in them cooperating with the investigation. Again....Colts fans know this thing blew up as a big to do about not much....it was an equipment violation....not in the spirit of the game...but it became about a cover up and a power struggle. It got way overblown but that is on the Pats and Goodell...not the Colts or the Ravens who first complained about it. It's a dead horse...and I'm talking to Colts fans not just you Morty....just saying...but its this behavior of bending/skirting the rules to benefit them and then the whole we never did anything wrong that gets most people fired up. We had a guy taking PEDs in Mathis...and he was out right condemned on here even though he had what he felt was a "reasonable" explaination (I didn't buy it). But what the Colts fans see over here is a pattern of behavior and then a bunch of excuses and cries of conspiracy theories from the Pats fans. I'm not sure any of them amount to a significant advantage or would have changed the outcomes of any football games...(maybe recording the Rams walkthrough)...but it's this constant defense of the behavior that cause people to keep bringing it up all the time. I wish it would stop...I'm sick of hearing it....but I do think most Colts fans would let it go if the other side would just admit that it happened. Anyways...those things probably had little to do with outcomes on the field...and I don't think it affected the out come of any games I saw. The best team won usually....and that typically was the Pats.

[XxGoosexX]

52 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

 

Just a simple question, no more no less. Would you find the testimonies of those guys under oath more credible than the testimony already given under oath by Tom Brady?

 

And just to be clear, I'm making no reference to which side of this I'm on or what I believe or don't, I'm simply asking why you would automatically believe one under oath testimony over another.

I for one would like to hear their testimony. Your just assuming they will say they know nothing to incriminate the patriots. Nobody knows what they will say. Maybe if they did do something asked of them, they might fell guilty and want to free their selves from carrying around the guilt? Know body know for sure what will be said. 

[dynasty13]

2 minutes ago, XxGoosexX said:

I for one would like to hear their testimony. Your just assuming they will say they know nothing to incriminate the patriots. Nobody knows what they will say. Maybe if they did do something asked of them, they might fell guilty and want to free their selves from carrying around the guilt? Know body know for sure what will be said. 

 

I'm not assuming anything. I was simply reacting to the insinuation that talking 'under oath' would be taken as truth as long is it was them doing the talking, all while simultaneously ignoring the fact that Brady already spoke under oath but isn't given the same acknowledgement. 

 

I'm not saying anything about the situation itself, I'm just responding to about the way that different fans choose to react to it.

[XxGoosexX]

1 minute ago, dynasty13 said:

 

I'm not assuming anything. I was simply reacting to the insinuation that talking 'under oath' would be taken as truth as long is it was them doing the talking, all while simultaneously ignoring the fact that Brady already spoke under oath but isn't given the same acknowledgement. 

 

I'm not saying anything about the situation itself, I'm just responding to about the way that different fans choose to react to it.

Then my statement answered your question. 

[crazycolt1]

43 minutes ago, Bad Morty said:

Malcolm Butler was on the 'deflategate' team. Malcolm Butler just got humiliated by Bill on National TV and will be on another team in a few months. What a great way for him to get even, right? He could spill the whole story of deflategate...if there is a story to tell, that is.

What was going on between Brady, Jastremski and McNally Butler would not have privy to.

[dw49]

1 hour ago, dynasty13 said:

 

I love the 'under oath' part of this response.

 

Not to get into all this again, but why are you waiting on pins and needles to hear from those guys 'under oath' while completely dismissing what we heard from Tom Brady while 'under oath'? Do their comments 'under oath' hold more credibility somehow than Tom Brady's comments 'under oath'?

 

Because right now you are taking circumstantial evidence and assumed intent of a few text messages over the 'under oath' testimony of the one supposedly involved. I mean, if the 'under oath' testimony is the be all end all, why ignore the one that's already been made?!??

 

 

I didn't hear exactly what Brady said "under oath." He could have been evasive or yes.. he could have lied. Answering your question on who's testimony would have more credibility , I would have to be privy to what the 2 "ball boys" would have to gain by lying. Brady had a legacy and a career to protect. I would imagine if the balls were intentionally deflated , those two guys will have a paycheck for life ... so we'll never hear from their mouths that they were told to deflate the balls.

 

[Buck Showalter]

1 hour ago, Reality Check said:

It is nice that people in the Colts organization & their fans think there is a rivalry....and, hopefully, that will come to fruition someday.

 

However, if you were in NE right now, neither the Pats nor their fans consider there is any kind of rivalry between the 2 teams right now.  TBH, I am not even sure when the last time they played each other was??

 

The Colts have bigger issues within their own division IMO.

LOL...

Nice that one pats fan can speak for the entire fanbase & the organization...

 

You also make a good point about the rivalry, pats fans & the organization just don't seem like the types to hold a grudge.

 

 

 

[George Peterson]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

There is one statement that was said early in the investigation of deflategate that has stood out to me and has never been explained.  Straight up Brady was ask if he cheated. What was his answer?  "I don't think so".  It was not a simple no. 

 

Or he could just be leaving the option open that he either unwittingly cheated (thought something was legal when it wasn't, that kind of thing), or that other members of the organization cheated in a way that he benefitted from, either of which would make him a liar if he said a flat out no.

 

Bottom line, Tom Brady doesn't believe he cheated.  Other people with other definitions of what it means to cheat might disagree. 

 

I think everyone, regardless of what laundry they root for, is willing to admit that the Patriots will always push the rules about as far as they think they can go, and I'm sure that the Patriots, like every other organization, has gotten away with stuff over the years.  It's hard to have an 18 year NFL career, especially spending nearly all of it at the top of your profession doing everything you can to win playoff games, without occasionally having a brush with the rules.

 

Honestly that question, and that answer to the question, would matter more if Belichick said it, at least to me.  The shadier of the two men by far is Bill Belichick, he's the one that was caught breaking the rules in 2007, Brady has, at least technically, never been caught in a direct rules violation (destroying a phone that the league gave him permission to destroy and then asked for only after the fact in a breathtaking display of organizational ignorance, is not technically a rules violation), and if someone was tampering with the equipment (including footballs), that ultimately falls on the shoulders of the Head Coach far more than the starting QB anyway. 

 

If you ask me that's probably why Brady had to hedge, because he knows Bill has probably gotten away with some things over his long coaching career that might not bear much scrutiny, and that he could be accused by the vindictively small-minded of benefitting from.

[crestmount]

23 hours ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

IMO it boils down to Tommy Boy he's feeling his age & he dropped a pass & fumbled the ball to lose the game ,

McD is his "blankie " so to speak he needs to keep him & he went to Kraft & said hey I'm afraid I can't do this without him .

 

Thats my take & plus Kraft thought why not I hate the Colts .. Just my opinion . 

I would think that McDaniels needs Brady more than Brady needs McDaniels.  He could very simply have realised that without BB and TB, he was most likely to fail regardless of where he went

[George Peterson]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

What was going on between Brady, Jastremski and McNally Butler would not have privy to.

Probably the same info that Chandler Jones, Cyrus Jones, Chris Long, LeGarritte Blount, Darelle Revis, Brandon Browner, Jimmy Garoppolo, Dan Connolly, Kyle Van Noy, Vince Wilfork, Kyle Arrington, Rob Ninkovich, Shane Vereen, and a host of other people that were there at the time and no longer have any vested interest in remaining silent, either through retirement or through playing for someone else's laundry, had going on.  None of them have spelled any beans either.

 

I mean the Pats may run a tight ship but they can't control guys after they're gone.  If there were beans to spill, someone would have spilled them by now.

 

Heck if there's anyone who knew anything about footballs, it would be center Bryan Stork, and when he moved on to the Redskins 2 years after Deflategate, nothing happened.  I really doubt that "turning states evidence" against Brady would have gotten them in trouble with Goodell, since he was desperately seeking to strengthen his story at the time and would have absolutely been willing to exchange impunity for testimony.

 

This is simply a story with no substance.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, George Peterson said:

 

Or he could just be leaving the option open that he either unwittingly cheated (thought something was legal when it wasn't, that kind of thing), or that other members of the organization cheated in a way that he benefitted from, either of which would make him a liar if he said a flat out no.

 

Bottom line, Tom Brady doesn't believe he cheated.  Other people with other definitions of what it means to cheat might disagree. 

 

I think everyone, regardless of what laundry they root for, is willing to admit that the Patriots will always push the rules about as far as they think they can go, and I'm sure that the Patriots, like every other organization, has gotten away with stuff over the years.  It's hard to have an 18 year NFL career, especially spending nearly all of it at the top of your profession doing everything you can to win playoff games, without occasionally having a brush with the rules.

 

Honestly that question, and that answer to the question, would matter more if Belichick said it, at least to me.  The shadier of the two men by far is Bill Belichick, he's the one that was caught breaking the rules in 2007, Brady has, at least technically, never been caught in a direct rules violation (destroying a phone that the league gave him permission to destroy and then asked for only after the fact in a breathtaking display of organizational ignorance, is not technically a rules violation), and if someone was tampering with the equipment (including footballs), that ultimately falls on the shoulders of the Head Coach far more than the starting QB anyway. 

 

If you ask me that's probably why Brady had to hedge, because he knows Bill has probably gotten away with some things over his long coaching career that might not bear much scrutiny, and that he could be accused by the vindictively small-minded of benefitting from.

You don't know what Brady believes. If you don't know him personally or if you are not one of the two equipment men then you know as much as me, and that is exactly zero. 

Vindictive ?? You have to be kidding me. Kraft has shown his vindictive self this week so for you to go there is a joke.

[crazycolt1]

22 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

Probably the same info that Chandler Jones, Cyrus Jones, Chris Long, LeGarritte Blount, Darelle Revis, Brandon Browner, Jimmy Garoppolo, Dan Connolly, Kyle Van Noy, Vince Wilfork, Kyle Arrington, Rob Ninkovich, Shane Vereen, and a host of other people that were there at the time and no longer have any vested interest in remaining silent, either through retirement or through playing for someone else's laundry, had going on.  None of them have spelled any beans either.

 

I mean the Pats may run a tight ship but they can't control guys after they're gone.  If there were beans to spill, someone would have spilled them by now.

 

Heck if there's anyone who knew anything about footballs, it would be center Bryan Stork, and when he moved on to the Redskins 2 years after Deflategate, nothing happened.  I really doubt that "turning states evidence" against Brady would have gotten them in trouble with Goodell, since he was desperately seeking to strengthen his story at the time and would have absolutely been willing to exchange impunity for testimony.

 

This is simply a story with no substance.

Three people involved. Brady and the two equipment men. Brady don't text McNally for two months and all of a sudden 4 text in two days starting the very next day and Brady destroys his cell phone?  Coincidence?  No, not in my opinion.

You can write a book as big as War and Piece and it still don't explain the issues that are suspicious.

IMO if there wasn't something to hide there would be no need to have suspicion.

 

[BOTT]

8 hours ago, George Peterson said:

Yes.  Quite frankly most of New England doesn't give a damn about the Colts as long as they're not direct playoff rivals.  And they're not right now. 

 

There was never a rivalry with the Colts from a NEP perspective.  There was a rivalry between brady and Manning, that's all.  Once Manning was gone as far as NE fans were concerned the rivalry was over and the Colts were just another team with a bit of history but nothing fresh to offer.  There's a few bitter enders who maintain hostilities but they are far from the majority.  More New England fans hate Indy for Grigson's role in the Deflategate nonsense than for any sense of rivalry.

 

Sorry guys, but your team just isn't important enough to Patriot fans to really care about hurting you in particular.  I'm sure Patriot brass cares even less about being spiteful to a 3-13 team.  Hell they agreed to a trade this year, that doesn't scream "bitter rivalry" to me.

 

Belichick in particular seems to have more animosity to Cleveland than Indy, since he refused to trade Garoppolo to them for superior trade terms, while he was fine with giving  Brissett to Indy.

Says the patriots fan on a colts forum.

[Reality Check]

5 hours ago, Buck Showalter said:

LOL...

Nice that one pats fan can speak for the entire fanbase & the organization...

 

You also make a good point about the rivalry, pats fans & the organization just don't seem like the types to hold a grudge.

 

 

 

Oh, the Pats will ALWAYS hold a grudge ...lol.  They just never acknowledge it until they beat you into submission on game day.  Sounds arrogant but we’ve all seen them do it over & over to most of their “rivals”.

 

I do not speak for their entire fan base, I’m just telling you what is being discussed throughout ALL outlets in/around Boston...and it’s not “the rivalry”...

 

[Reality Check]

12 hours ago, George Peterson said:

Yes.  Quite frankly most of New England doesn't give a damn about the Colts as long as they're not direct playoff rivals.  And they're not right now. 

 

There was never a rivalry with the Colts from a NEP perspective.  There was a rivalry between brady and Manning, that's all.  Once Manning was gone as far as NE fans were concerned the rivalry was over and the Colts were just another team with a bit of history but nothing fresh to offer.  There's a few bitter enders who maintain hostilities but they are far from the majority.  More New England fans hate Indy for Grigson's role in the Deflategate nonsense than for any sense of rivalry.

 

Sorry guys, but your team just isn't important enough to Patriot fans to really care about hurting you in particular.  I'm sure Patriot brass cares even less about being spiteful to a 3-13 team.  Hell they agreed to a trade this year, that doesn't scream "bitter rivalry" to me.

 

Belichick in particular seems to have more animosity to Cleveland than Indy, since he refused to trade Garoppolo to them for superior trade terms, while he was fine with giving  Brissett to Indy.

^^TRUTH^^

 

The Brady/Manning era was just a “chapter” in the all-encompassing Patriot Dynasty,

 

Some of the many other chapters are...

-Bill, Charlie,and Romeo years

-The Transition (part 1)

-The Brady/Manning rivalry

-The Brady/ Eli Manning rivalry

-Ravens/Pats post season classics

-A generation of destroying Pittsburgh

-Mile High Lows

 

What other are there?? It’s a big book...

[GoPats]

 

I can’t believe I’m doing this, but...

 

I’m pretty convinced that DFG all goes back to the Pats-Jets game the season before, where the refs added air to NE’s game balls during inspection, and post-game they were over 16 PSI. If you followed the whole story, you’ll remember... that was actually outside of the “legal” limit. The refs did that. This was all well documented during the investigation. Brady was PO’d and let the equipment guys know it.

 

So, speculating here... it would be crazy to deflate balls to a point where an NFL ref, who handles the ball between every play and has trained to do his job, would notice. But, if a QB prefers a softer ball, and knows that refs sort of nonchalantly go by a “feel” test (evidenced by the Pats’ balls from that Jets game), without much regard for the actual guidelines, well... maybe your equipment guys know it too. So if the refs add air arbitrarily, take the top off. Not necessarily and deliberately outside the guidelines, but not necessarily within them, either. 

 

That line of thinking is sacrelige to a lot of Pats fans but to me, it’s the most logical explaination. The whole thing was made worse by Brady’s apparent lack of full cooperation, but from the get-go it was totally overblown. An equipment violation subject to a team fine of $25k. Not something that would result in suspending a player for a quarter of a season and dragging his legacy through the mud. 

 

It’s almost as crazy as the idea that you can get some kind of added advantage based on where your camera is located while filming a guy giving signals in front of 80,000 people huh? 

 

Last point and I’ll shut up. Since these 2 “scandals” the Patriots have won their division every year except ‘08 when Brady was injured. They’ve appeared in 5 Super Bowls and won two. Brady has won 3 MVPs. There’s been no drop off, no difference in them really at all since these alleged advantages were exposed to an NFL public that hated them well before 2007, lol... 

 

Does that make them angels, or innocent of the accusations? No, but it should be pretty clear that they don’t amount to very much either way.

 

 

 

 

[aaron11]

15 hours ago, George Peterson said:

Yes.  Quite frankly most of New England doesn't give a damn about the Colts as long as they're not direct playoff rivals. 

this is just wrong

 

their fans have trolled the crap out of the colts since deflatlegate and it continues to this very day 

 

 

 

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, GoPats said:

 

I can’t believe I’m doing this, but...

 

I’m pretty convinced that DFG all goes back to the Pats-Jets game the season before, where the refs added air to NE’s game balls during inspection, and post-game they were over 16 PSI. If you followed the whole story, you’ll remember... that was actually outside of the “legal” limit. The refs did that. This was all well documented during the investigation. Brady was PO’d and let the equipment guys know it.

 

So, speculating here... it would be crazy to deflate balls to a point where an NFL ref, who handles the ball between every play and has trained to do his job, would notice. But, if a QB prefers a softer ball, and knows that refs sort of nonchalantly go by a “feel” test (evidenced by the Pats’ balls from that Jets game), without much regard for the actual guidelines, well... maybe your equipment guys know it too. So if the refs add air arbitrarily, take the top off. Not necessarily and deliberately outside the guidelines, but not necessarily within them, either. 

 

That line of thinking is sacrelige to a lot of Pats fans but to me, it’s the most logical explaination. The whole thing was made worse by Brady’s apparent lack of full cooperation, but from the get-go it was totally overblown. An equipment violation subject to a team fine of $25k. Not something that would result in suspending a player for a quarter of a season and dragging his legacy through the mud. 

 

It’s almost as crazy as the idea that you can get some kind of added advantage based on where your camera is located while filming a guy giving signals in front of 80,000 people huh? 

 

Last point and I’ll shut up. Since these 2 “scandals” the Patriots have won their division every year except ‘08 when Brady was injured. They’ve appeared in 5 Super Bowls and won two. Brady has won 3 MVPs. There’s been no drop off, no difference in them really at all since these alleged advantages were exposed to an NFL public that hated them well before 2007, lol... 

 

Does that make them angels, or innocent of the accusations? No, but it should be pretty clear that they don’t amount to very much either way.

 

 

 

 

I totally agree. Grigson makes a phone call to bring attention to something he was suspicious of. OK, not a big deal. I think if Brady would have been straight up and cooperated from the get go like you said a fine would have been the end of it. By him not doing that it opened up a huge can of worms.

The media played a huge part in this getting blown up and then it become a power struggle between the league, Brady and Kraft. The general consensus was Brady must have had something to hide or he would have cooperated from the start. Kraft is a smart guy and turned this into it's us against the world with playing the victim card and the Colts were at fault. That is why most Colt fans are still upset about this whole ordeal.

As always, GP, good thoughtful comments about something that will never go away entirely.

[George Peterson]

26 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

this is just wrong

 

their fans have trolled the crap out of the colts since deflatlegate and it continues to this very day 

Yeah -- if someone brings it up.  The Colts aren't even a priority Deflategate target.  They share whatever prominence they have from that disaster with the Ravens, and the NFL head office is the major target of Pats fans' ire.  

 

There is a little extra animosity for the Colts based on Deflategate but if I had to finger the Pats' principle rivals right now, it would definitely be the Steelers, followed by their divisional foes

[George Peterson]

4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I totally agree. Grigson makes a phone call to bring attention to something he was suspicious of. OK, not a big deal. I think if Brady would have been straight up and cooperated from the get go like you said a fine would have been the end of it. By him not doing that it opened up a huge can of worms.

 

From what I'm given to understand, Brady actually tried to cooperate fully, but was crossed up by a bit of a communications problem in the league office.  According to the sources I read on the matter Brady only destroyed his phone after the people he talked to indicated that they weren't interested in it. 

 

Turned out that another branch of the investigation WAS interested in his communications.  Whoops!

[aaron11]

17 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

Yeah -- if someone brings it up.  The Colts aren't even a priority Deflategate target.  They share whatever prominence they have from that disaster with the Ravens, and the NFL head office is the major target of Pats fans' ire.  

 

There is a little extra animosity for the Colts based on Deflategate but if I had to finger the Pats' principle rivals right now, it would definitely be the Steelers, followed by their divisional foes

if someone brings it up?? lol

 

thats what sports writers do, bring stuff up.  im not caught up in this "rivalry" thing, just pointing out their fans are still a bunch of trolling jerks 

 

and the colts only asked the league to look into something, its petty to hold a grudge over that 

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

 

From what I'm given to understand, Brady actually tried to cooperate fully, but was crossed up by a bit of a communications problem in the league office.  According to the sources I read on the matter Brady only destroyed his phone after the people he talked to indicated that they weren't interested in it. 

 

Turned out that another branch of the investigation WAS interested in his communications.  Whoops!

Once again, it was someone else's fault. Playing the victim nonsense is getting old. Just one time I would like to see the one's responsible for this just step up. But when you lack integrity that is not going to happen.

Quit trolling me.

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Sorry Cb. Defending Artest when there was security people in place to take care of people like that (who threw the beer) is wrong. His hot head actions may have killed one of only two chances to win a championship in Indy.

Players getting beer throw at or on them was nothing new at the time and still happens today once in a while.

I am not really so much condoning what Artest did by running into stands but I honestly can see why he lost his cool.

[2006Coltsbestever]

14 hours ago, dgambill said:

Your wrong....I've had a beer thrown on me in college more than a couple times. I might not have had a very nice thing to say but I walked away. I've never put my hands on anyone except to defend myself...only a couple times when people took swings. There was no reason for him to go running into the crowd nor for any of Jackson, Artest, or J Oneil to start taking swings at people running onto the court. The security was awful but Ron did no favors laying down on the scorers table and instigating the crowd. Let's be honest here...that was not a choir boy Pacers teams....it was made up of by several questionable character players. It was a bad mix to put together..that while talented were volatile. Artest and Jackson both had a checkered past....that team was a powder keg waiting to blow. I just feel bad for the fan that he went after because he didn't even get the guy that threw the beer. Anyways...it was an embarrassment...and I didn't support the Pacers for a long time after that until the team was basically wiped clean of those attitudes.

See my very last Post, I don't like what he did but I can see why he lost his cool. I don't lay my hands on anyway normally either but if someone threw a beer on me I am not sure how I would react. I have never had it happen.

[crazycolt1]

19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

See my very last Post, I don't like what he did but I can see why he lost his cool. I don't lay my hands on anyway normally either but if someone threw a beer on me I am not sure how I would react. I have never had it happen.

I understand where you are coming from but all the NBA players are warned extensively on going into the stands and touching a fan and what the penalties would be. In the first place Artest had no business laying on the scorers table. The only place he should have been was on the court or in the Pacers bench area.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

I understand where you are coming from but all the NBA players are warned extensively on going into the stands and touching a fan and what the penalties would be. In the first place Artest had no business laying on the scorers table. The only place he should have been was on the court or in the Pacers bench area.

 

Yeah it would've been different had the fan ran onto the court so I see your point. Imagine had that cup hit Artest in one of his eyes damaging his eye where he couldn't play anymore? The fan actually started it along with Ben Wallace. It is what it is now and really old news. I probably wouldn't of ran into the stands so for that Artest should've been punished I do agree on. I just understand to a degree why he acted the way he did.

[BOTT]

3 hours ago, George Peterson said:

Yeah -- if someone brings it up.  The Colts aren't even a priority Deflategate target.  They share whatever prominence they have from that disaster with the Ravens, and the NFL head office is the major target of Pats fans' ire.  

 

There is a little extra animosity for the Colts based on Deflategate but if I had to finger the Pats' principle rivals right now, it would definitely be the Steelers, followed by their divisional foes

So let me get this straight, the colts aren't a rival at this point (I would agree), but the Steelers are??  The patriots are 11-3 against the Steelers in the BB era, and you havnt met them in the playoff since 2005.

 

boy, that rivalry has all the tension of a windshield vs a bug.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, BOTT said:

So let me get this straight, the colts aren't a rival at this point (I would agree), but the Steelers are??  The patriots are 11-3 against the Steelers in the BB era, and you havnt met them in the playoff since 2005.

 

boy, that rivalry has all the tension of a windshield vs a bug.

The Patriots have owned the Steelers going all the way back to the 2001 Title Game. At least we had a stretch in the Peyton era where we were 5-1 against them from 2005-2009. I agree with your Post.

[Reality Check]

2 hours ago, BOTT said:

So let me get this straight, the colts aren't a rival at this point (I would agree), but the Steelers are??  The patriots are 11-3 against the Steelers in the BB era, and you havnt met them in the playoff since 2005.

 

boy, that rivalry has all the tension of a windshield vs a bug.

IMO, the Steelers aren’t a real rival of the Pats.  I work with a number of Steller fans and they ARE convinced it is a rivalry.... but I am always quick to inform them it is NOT a rivalry until their team actually wins a meaningful game.  Just one mans opinion...

 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

I'm the farthest thing from a Pats-fan, but I'm not the rabid Pats-hater I used to be.

 

Just look at it from the Patriots' POV:  since the dynasty became "official" after the 3rd SB in 2004, everything that every other team is doing is an attempt to knock them off the top of the mountain.  So everything the Pats do is an effort to thwart other teams from knocking them off the mountain.  They probably feel like even the NFL targets them more than other franchises because the NFL wants parity.  (Even though we all see Brady and the Pats play the refs like a fiddle every dang game...)

 

Do I think Kraft and Belichick are men of high moral character?  

Do I think they will do whatever is necessary to remain King of the Mountain?  Yes.

 

I also think Brady told Kraft and BB that he wanted McDaniels to stay, so that was probably a factor.  You'd have to have a real pair to tell that trio "No" after winning multiple SBs together... but since McDaniels is spineless, he tucked his tail and stayed.

 

[Bad Morty]

The only team that seems to have routine success against the Pats is the Dolphins (in Miami), but I don't think too many Pats fans view them as a "rival"...probably  because those games never seem to mean much for either team when all is said and done. The Pats still end up with a bye and the Dolphins are usually out of the playoffs.

[George Peterson]

16 hours ago, BOTT said:

Says the patriots fan on a colts forum.

... on a Patriots topic.

[George Peterson]

8 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Once again, it was someone else's fault. Playing the victim nonsense is getting old. Just one time I would like to see the one's responsible for this just step up. But when you lack integrity that is not going to happen.

Quit trolling me.

Since no one has ever proven that footballs were actually deflated, that's a weird attitude to take. 

 

I mean it's pretty hard to get too mad at Tom Brady for a violation that no one has proven beyond a reasonable doubt actually happened, isn't it?  Even if there was any evidence that any of this was his idea, a minimum standard of blame or responsibility for an event would involve confirming the event actually took place or was intended.  I don't think the evidence or either of those accuysations falls to Brady in any overwhelming degree.

 

I mean at least Spygate, mountain out of a molehill that it was, actually happened, was verified and admitted to by all parties.  As far as I'm concerned nobody's at fault for a violation that didn't actually take place. 

 

The only Patriots football that was legitimately deflated (rather than starting at the low end of the allowed limit, and then having their PSI reduced by the cold conditions on game day) was the one that had spent time on the Colts sideline.  

 

But I suppose that was nobody's fault too right?

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

Since no one has ever proven that footballs were actually deflated, that's a weird attitude to take. 

 

I mean it's pretty hard to get too mad at Tom Brady for a violation that no one has proven beyond a reasonable doubt actually happened, isn't it?  Even if there was any evidence that any of this was his idea, a minimum standard of blame or responsibility for an event would involve confirming the event actually took place or was intended.  I don't think the evidence or either of those accuysations falls to Brady in any overwhelming degree.

 

I mean at least Spygate, mountain out of a molehill that it was, actually happened, was verified and admitted to by all parties.  As far as I'm concerned nobody's at fault for a violation that didn't actually take place. 

 

The only Patriots football that was legitimately deflated (rather than starting at the low end of the allowed limit, and then having their PSI reduced by the cold conditions on game day) was the one that had spent time on the Colts sideline.  

 

But I suppose that was nobody's fault too right?

Do you understand English?

[chad72]

 

2 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

I'm the farthest thing from a Pats-fan, but I'm not the rabid Pats-hater I used to be.

 

Just look at it from the Patriots' POV:  since the dynasty became "official" after the 3rd SB in 2004, everything that every other team is doing is an attempt to knock them off the top of the mountain.  So everything the Pats do is an effort to thwart other teams from knocking them off the mountain.  They probably feel like even the NFL targets them more than other franchises because the NFL wants parity.  (Even though we all see Brady and the Pats play the refs like a fiddle every dang game...)

 

Do I think Kraft and Belichick are men of high moral character?  

Do I think they will do whatever is necessary to remain King of the Mountain?  Yes.

 

I also think Brady told Kraft and BB that he wanted McDaniels to stay, so that was probably a factor.  You'd have to have a real pair to tell that trio "No" after winning multiple SBs together... but since McDaniels is spineless, he tucked his tail and stayed.

 

 

Goodell was the one who punished Brady, don't shoot the messenger. If he was not guilty, he would not have been punished. I am not defending Goodell but to blame the Colts for bringing it up is short sighted. Charges vs Big Ben were dropped too but Goodell laid down the hammer. So, going after every messenger is what people should do, huh, with roles reversed as victim? 

 

Krafty is petty, I have said this before, he doesn't need a reason for his pettiness, he is just that by nature like our POTUS, getting offended easily and taking every opportunity to get back. From the 283 diamonds to "my son has 4 SB rings" to this McDaniels fiasco, his pettiness shows through easily over time. Krafty and the POTUS are very much alike, successful, rich, yet petty and vindictive. That is not going to change any time, no matter how nice you are to them. The checks and balances in the system are the only things holding them back, otherwise they would try to get away with more if they could.

 

The Patriots players have conducted themselves remarkably well over the years on and off the field for the most part but as far as Kraft, I cannot give him any benefit of doubt now.

[crazycolt1]

6 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

 

Goodell was the one who punished Brady, don't shoot the messenger. If he was not guilty, he would not have been punished. I am not defending Goodell but to blame the Colts for bringing it up is short sighted. Charges vs Big Ben were dropped too but Goodell laid down the hammer. So, going after every messenger is what people should do, huh, with roles reversed as victim? 

 

Krafty is petty, I have said this before, he doesn't need a reason for his pettiness, he is just that by nature like our POTUS, getting offended easily and taking every opportunity to get back. From the 283 diamonds to "my son has 4 SB rings" to this McDaniels fiasco, his pettiness shows through easily over time. Krafty and the POTUS are very much alike, successful, rich, yet petty and vindictive. That is not going to change any time, no matter how nice you are to them.

 

The Patriots players have conducted themselves remarkably well over the years on and off the field for the most part but as far as Kraft, I cannot give him any benefit of doubt know.

Yeah this playing the victim by Kraft has wore itself out. Finally the media and the rest of the NFL has seen how Kraft and McDaniels acted in regards to the lack of integrity aimed at the Colts. All this time, money spent and media coverage was wasted over a simple phone call from Grigson.  I don't blame Grigson for making the phone call because he thought there was a violation and was suspicious.

Kraft and his pettiness turned it into a complete circus. How dare the Colts make a phone call on us. I will show them.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

Yeah this playing the victim by Kraft has wore itself out. Finally the media and the rest of the NFL has seen how Kraft and McDaniels acted in regards to the lack of integrity aimed at the Colts. All this time, money spent and media coverage was wasted over a simple phone call from Grigson.  I don't blame Grigson for making the phone call because he thought there was a violation and was suspicious.

Kraft and his pettiness turned it into a complete circus. How dare the Colts make a phone call on us. I will show them.

I really don't see how the Colts should be blamed at all. Our LB Jackson INT a ball that he thought looked suspicious/under PSI. He turns it in, Grigson makes a phone call and it was proven it was under PSI. If I was a Patriots fan I would blame Goodell for making it into a long investigation but the only reason it even turned into that was because Brady wasn't cooperating at first. That made it worse and made him look guilty. People can say what they want that the Pats would've won anyway and have won SB's since then which is true, but they still may have knowingly cheated in that game or other games. It is what it is and Pats fans are going to defend their team which is understandable.

[RockThatBlue]

23 hours ago, George Peterson said:

The Patriots never got caught "cheating."

 

They got stung in 2007 because Bill Belichick missed a memo and was filming a practice everyone else was filming too, from the wrong place under a ruleset passed just the previous year. 

 

So-called "spygate" was stupid (read your damn mail, Bill!), and it was a rules violation no doubt, but since no one has ever successfully proved that filming from the sidelines rather than the press box (where everyone else was filming the same event) actually grants a competitive advantage in any material way, calling it "cheating" is a real stretch of the language.

 

And in 2014 they got caught being lied about by the Commissioner, his stooges, and some * in the Colts organization, including mutually-acknowledged * Ryan Grigson who even Colts fans will admit at this point was not quite bright, when the league pressed a series of allegations against the Patriots that didn't stand up to reason, logic, good sense, or even a basic understanding of high school physics/fluid dynamics.   

 

And one of the faces of the NFL, one of the biggest name brands and money makers in all of professional football, had his name dragged through the mud with a suspension based on the flimsiest of technicalities, none of which had anything whatsoever to do with deflated footballs, and the only reason Goodell even got away with doing it is the union was stupid enough to give him carte blanche to be judge, jury and executioner.

 

There is nothing in Deflategate that even comes close to "getting caught cheating."  Even if you don't believe that high school physics textbooks exist, most of the footballs were within a reasonable margin of error of the PSI limits and within about a quarter of a PSI of the Colts footballs -- which were also, incidentally, below the lower limit.  The only exception is a single Patriots football that had been in the possession of the Colts bench prior to the investigation, which was found to be a bit further under the limit than the rest. (I'll leave to the fertile imaginations of the curious how that Patriots football on the Colts sideline might have been deflated when the news of possible deflation was first broken by a Colts beat writer)

 

Either way, no one ever managed to so much as prove that footballs were deflated, much less that anyone had deliberately deflated them.  This is one of those rare cases that saying that the Patriots "getting caught cheating," contains 2 individual, unique lies, each an untruth unto itself.

It was a rules violation but it wasn't cheating? Now that's some impressive spin...

[Nesjan3]

Its being reported today that Mcdufus was not even guaranteed to succeed BB when he retires. Lets face it (including pats fans) Kraft used his own coach as a pawn to seek revenge. Ultimately ending Mcdufus's chance of ever getting a head coaching job anywhere but New England, he might be destined to being the Pats OC for the rest of his NFL career because of this stunt. I must say for an owner to stoop to such levels is quite hilarious and embarrassing at the same time. If i was a Pats fan i would be ashamed.