The Character of Kraft and Belichick

[King Colt]

All things aside I can't help but wonder about the character of Kraft and Belichick.

1. What would be you thoughts if your bosses did what they did to you?

2. How much respect would you feel they held for you?

3. How many discussions did Belichick and Kraft have in private about losing Mc Daniels? 

4. Did either say to the other, "we can't do that to him"?

5. McDaniel's' agent dropped him and it appears he screwed himself bigtime in the eyes of other owners for decades to come. Didn't that dawn on either Kraft or Belichick?

6. Hard to believe both agreed on 100% of how this went down.

7. How secure would you feel the HC job is yours after being treated like this?

I am glad McDaniels did not come to Indy. I never liked his character and never respected him but he is working for two vipers and things may not end well for him in the future. This reminds me of a young boxer working for a pair of slimey managers strictly out for themselves. It smells very bad because something is rotten somewhere.

[IinD]

Crying over spilled milk honestly at this point. 

 

Who cares, he's not our coach.

[jvan1973]

This should be in nfl general

[Shive]

I think in their eyes, they were keeping a vital piece of the coaching staff at any cost. Some players on the Pats may look at it in a positive light, in that Kraft and BB will do anything to keep their guys. I know that is what I've seen from friends of mine that are Pats fans. They're just happy they were able to keep McDaniels..

[Buck Showalter]

moved to NFL General...

 

 

[Buck Showalter]

1 minute ago, Shive said:

I think in their eyes, they were keeping a vital piece of the coaching staff at any cost. Some players on the Pats may look at it in a positive light, in that Kraft and BB will do anything to keep their guys. I know that is what I've seen from friends of mine that are Pats fans. They're just happy they were able to keep McDaniels..

I am sure that is the fans outlook or perspective, however, looking at BB & Kraft's role, do you think it would've played out the same if McD was leaving to go to any of the the other 30 NFL teams??? 

[ricker182]

What character?  

  

They do anything they can to win. Including cheating.  

  

 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

IMO it boils down to Tommy Boy he's feeling his age & he dropped a pass & fumbled the ball to lose the game ,

McD is his "blankie " so to speak he needs to keep him & he went to Kraft & said hey I'm afraid I can't do this without him .

 

Thats my take & plus Kraft thought why not I hate the Colts .. Just my opinion . 

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, Shive said:

I think in their eyes, they were keeping a vital piece of the coaching staff at any cost. Some players on the Pats may look at it in a positive light, in that Kraft and BB will do anything to keep their guys. I know that is what I've seen from friends of mine that are Pats fans. They're just happy they were able to keep McDaniels..

The problem I have with that is Kraft waited till the evening before McDaniels was suppose to sign with the Colts to let him know the Pats wanted him to stay?  It was not new news that the Colts were talking to him. This horse dung that McDaniels said about nothing was promised to him to stay is a huge pile IMO.

Coincidence?  I highly doubt it.

MY take on is it was Kraft's way to get back at the Colts. It was pre planed from a vindictive arrogant *hole.

As far as the Pats fans are concerned most are good fans and back their team just as most teams fans go. There are also lot of Pats fans who know exactly who Kraft is and what a snake he is. But winning will turn 20-20 vision into blindness.

[GwinnettColt]

We shouldn't be surprised when a rattlesnake bites. 

 

While we don't have evidence that it was intentional, I wouldn't put it past him.  They're the Patriots; they've proven to the world on several occasions that they are dishonest. 

 

Maybe they talked to Manboy as soon as the Colts started interviewing him and he had his mind set on coming to Indy; maybe they didn't.   It would certainly be no surprise if it indeed was planned to transpire the way it did, leaving Indy in a bad position. I'm not sure.

[DougDew]

Nobody's perfect.  I don't think its right to judge another person's character, because you are not in the same situation they are in.

 

But,

 

You can choose who you spend time with.  And people who appear to handle things in a significantly different way than you do should probably not be invited to your party.

 

Run away from them and stay away.

[Bert Johns]

If you all think this is payback to the colts org. So be it but who cares if they screw Mc Donald and no i know his name but Ronald Mc Donald suits him better he's a clown. He's a selfish jerk same as pats.org is. He screwed other asst.coaches he wanted on his staff that the colts hired. I really feel for those guys he screwed in the process. What did they ever do to him.

[Bert Johns]

What goes around come around. He'll get his 

[LockeDown]

Belichik isn't ashamed of his actions.  That's all I'm gonna say. 

[Colts_Fan12]

They have no character they are all scumbags yet they wonder why everyone hates them and 90% of their fan base 

[BOTT]

If your friends (BB,Gronk,Brady, Big Ennis & Lil Ennis) convince you to do something that is in their interest at the cost of your reputation and integrity, you don't need enemies.

 

[King Colt]

Would this have happened if the Pats had beaten the Eagles?

[dynasty13]

1 hour ago, King Colt said:

Would this have happened if the Pats had beaten the Eagles?

 

It probably wouldn't have, honestly. 

 

I said it before, but there were quite a few similarities to this Superbowl as there were 13 years ago against the Eagles, when the Patriots were set to lose both coordinators then too. If the Patriots won Sunday and essentially book ended the two 'end of Belichick with his coordinators' eras with 3 out of 4 championships, then that would be the story.

 

Instead, it has more of a 'well our defense sucked we'll let Patricia go but this offense still has some left in the tank and lets squeeze whatever we have left of it' feel. 

[George Peterson]

16 hours ago, King Colt said:

All things aside I can't help but wonder about the character of Kraft and Belichick.

1. What would be you thoughts if your bosses did what they did to you?

2. How much respect would you feel they held for you?

3. How many discussions did Belichick and Kraft have in private about losing Mc Daniels? 

4. Did either say to the other, "we can't do that to him"?

5. McDaniel's' agent dropped him and it appears he screwed himself bigtime in the eyes of other owners for decades to come. Didn't that dawn on either Kraft or Belichick?

6. Hard to believe both agreed on 100% of how this went down.

7. How secure would you feel the HC job is yours after being treated like this?

I am glad McDaniels did not come to Indy. I never liked his character and never respected him but he is working for two vipers and things may not end well for him in the future. This reminds me of a young boxer working for a pair of slimey managers strictly out for themselves. It smells very bad because something is rotten somewhere.

 

1: Workers in industry the nation over have to deal with bosses who handle things worse than Kraft and Belichick, and abuse them more -- and without the success to fall back on as an excuse

2: It's obvious that they have a great deal of respect for people who put winning and contributing to their team above everything else... it's a high standard they set but if you meet it you have their respect.  Again, in industry, that's about as far as you can ask.

3: how the hell are we supposed to know that?

4: Why on earth would they do that?

5: They were giving him another career track that doesn't depend on his reputation with the rest of the league and improved his stock in New England.  McDaniels agreed to this, this isn't on Belichick or Kraft.

6: If they didn't, McDaniels would be the Colts' head coach right now.  Losing their DC and their OC at the same time would be highly disruptive and the window is short considering Brady's age.  I rather thought they might make a move to try to prevent the loss of both coordinators at once.  Although I admit I thought they'd put a full court press on Patricia.

7: I doubt McDaniels would agree to this unless he already knew how the head coaching situation was supposed to go down in New England.  Belichick is retirement age.  At this point everyone expects that there's an under the table deal to keep McD in NE and let him take the job when Belichick retires or moves upstairs.

[George Peterson]

16 hours ago, Buck Showalter said:

I am sure that is the fans outlook or perspective, however, looking at BB & Kraft's role, do you think it would've played out the same if McD was leaving to go to any of the the other 30 NFL teams??? 

Yes.  Quite frankly most of New England doesn't give a damn about the Colts as long as they're not direct playoff rivals.  And they're not right now. 

 

There was never a rivalry with the Colts from a NEP perspective.  There was a rivalry between brady and Manning, that's all.  Once Manning was gone as far as NE fans were concerned the rivalry was over and the Colts were just another team with a bit of history but nothing fresh to offer.  There's a few bitter enders who maintain hostilities but they are far from the majority.  More New England fans hate Indy for Grigson's role in the Deflategate nonsense than for any sense of rivalry.

 

Sorry guys, but your team just isn't important enough to Patriot fans to really care about hurting you in particular.  I'm sure Patriot brass cares even less about being spiteful to a 3-13 team.  Hell they agreed to a trade this year, that doesn't scream "bitter rivalry" to me.

 

Belichick in particular seems to have more animosity to Cleveland than Indy, since he refused to trade Garoppolo to them for superior trade terms, while he was fine with giving  Brissett to Indy.

[Reality Check]

Funny to see Kraft's character brought into question after supporting an organization run by Jim Irsay.  Just sayin'.... 

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

Funny to see Kraft's character brought into question after supporting an organization run by Jim Irsay.  Just sayin'.... 

Jim Irsay is a great owner. Yeah messed up and got a DUI, yes he took pain pills due to an ailing back - legally by the way, but those 2 things have nothing to do with the way he runs the team. Let me ask you this, why do you say he runs things badly? That is what you are implying. He has the 2nd most wins only behind the Pats since he became Owner in the late 90's, he has won a SB, he was responsible for hiring Bill Polain and now Chris Ballard. He also made sure we took Peyton instead of Leaf and Luck instead RG3. I see people posting at ESPN that just bash Irsay and it's = he's a drunk or a pill head - people Trolling, give me something better because otherwise it's Trolling!

[Buck Showalter]

1 hour ago, George Peterson said:

Yes.  Quite frankly most of New England doesn't give a damn about the Colts as long as they're not direct playoff rivals.  And they're not right now. 

 

There was never a rivalry with the Colts from a NEP perspective.  There was a rivalry between brady and Manning, that's all.  Once Manning was gone as far as NE fans were concerned the rivalry was over and the Colts were just another team with a bit of history but nothing fresh to offer.  There's a few bitter enders who maintain hostilities but they are far from the majority.  More New England fans hate Indy for Grigson's role in the Deflategate nonsense than for any sense of rivalry.

 

Sorry guys, but your team just isn't important enough to Patriot fans to really care about hurting you in particular.  I'm sure Patriot brass cares even less about being spiteful to a 3-13 team.  Hell they agreed to a trade this year, that doesn't scream "bitter rivalry" to me.

 

Belichick in particular seems to have more animosity to Cleveland than Indy, since he refused to trade Garoppolo to them for superior trade terms, while he was fine with giving  Brissett to Indy.

LOL...

 

[King Colt]

1 hour ago, George Peterson said:

 

1: Workers in industry the nation over have to deal with bosses who handle things worse than Kraft and Belichick, and abuse them more -- and without the success to fall back on as an excuse

2: It's obvious that they have a great deal of respect for people who put winning and contributing to their team above everything else... it's a high standard they set but if you meet it you have their respect.  Again, in industry, that's about as far as you can ask.

3: how the hell are we supposed to know that?

4: Why on earth would they do that?

5: They were giving him another career track that doesn't depend on his reputation with the rest of the league and improved his stock in New England.  McDaniels agreed to this, this isn't on Belichick or Kraft.

6: If they didn't, McDaniels would be the Colts' head coach right now.  Losing their DC and their OC at the same time would be highly disruptive and the window is short considering Brady's age.  I rather thought they might make a move to try to prevent the loss of both coordinators at once.  Although I admit I thought they'd put a full court press on Patricia.

7: I doubt McDaniels would agree to this unless he already knew how the head coaching situation was supposed to go down in New England.  Belichick is retirement age.  At this point everyone expects that there's an under the table deal to keep McD in NE and let him take the job when Belichick retires or moves upstairs.

Learn the difference between rhetorical and literal and never answer a question with a question..

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, George Peterson said:

Yes.  Quite frankly most of New England doesn't give a damn about the Colts as long as they're not direct playoff rivals.  And they're not right now. 

 

There was never a rivalry with the Colts from a NEP perspective.  There was a rivalry between brady and Manning, that's all.  Once Manning was gone as far as NE fans were concerned the rivalry was over and the Colts were just another team with a bit of history but nothing fresh to offer.  There's a few bitter enders who maintain hostilities but they are far from the majority.  More New England fans hate Indy for Grigson's role in the Deflategate nonsense than for any sense of rivalry.

 

Sorry guys, but your team just isn't important enough to Patriot fans to really care about hurting you in particular.  I'm sure Patriot brass cares even less about being spiteful to a 3-13 team.  Hell they agreed to a trade this year, that doesn't scream "bitter rivalry" to me.

 

Belichick in particular seems to have more animosity to Cleveland than Indy, since he refused to trade Garoppolo to them for superior trade terms, while he was fine with giving  Brissett to Indy.

LOL it was even a rivalry when those 2 team played in the AFC East a long time ago. It has always been a huge rivalry, just because a team has beat the other team for a few years doesn't mean it isn't a rivalry. When we had Peyton it was rated the best rivalry of all-time.

[dgambill]

I have to try to separate these men's actions on the field and off. The people in the community and the people they have helped...how they treat their family and friends etc.....I'm sure they are very good men when it comes to that. But I will say this....a little yeast leavens the whole loaf....once you start to do things shady...you let questionable actions go unpunished and unaddressed in your organization it doesn't take long before that spreads to every part of the operation. It doesn't matter how big or small....but it works its way into every aspect of how you do things. I still consider them very successful...very driven...but very low on stature when it comes to doing the right thing. I think its just another example for them. Again...don't get me wrong...what defines them personally I will not judge...but their work...their organization...it's clear the win at all cost mentality. It's a shame because how talented and brilliant people are that are working in that organization...but their actions over the years tell you plain what is important to them and to what lengths they will go to get it. Don't get me wrong I'm embarrassed by teams I've rooted for too....especially the Pacers team and the Malice in the palace. The players we brought in and their character...all at the sake of winning. I didn't go to a Pacer game for a long time after that. Luckily the team cleaned house and tried to make amends.....and now I feel like they have a team the fans can be proud of. It makes a difference....what you do in life....how you get there...makes a difference. We look so often at the result but don't focus enough on the process. Honor is a hard thing to earn...and even harder to get back once you've lost it.

[2006Coltsbestever]

28 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I have to try to separate these men's actions on the field and off. The people in the community and the people they have helped...how they treat their family and friends etc.....I'm sure they are very good men when it comes to that. But I will say this....a little yeast leavens the whole loaf....once you start to do things shady...you let questionable actions go unpunished and unaddressed in your organization it doesn't take long before that spreads to every part of the operation. It doesn't matter how big or small....but it works its way into every aspect of how you do things. I still consider them very successful...very driven...but very low on stature when it comes to doing the right thing. I think its just another example for them. Again...don't get me wrong...what defines them personally I will not judge...but their work...their organization...it's clear the win at all cost mentality. It's a shame because how talented and brilliant people are that are working in that organization...but their actions over the years tell you plain what is important to them and to what lengths they will go to get it. Don't get me wrong I'm embarrassed by teams I've rooted for too....especially the Pacers team and the Malice in the palace. The players we brought in and their character...all at the sake of winning. I didn't go to a Pacer game for a long time after that. Luckily the team cleaned house and tried to make amends.....and now I feel like they have a team the fans can be proud of. It makes a difference....what you do in life....how you get there...makes a difference. We look so often at the result but don't focus enough on the process. Honor is a hard thing to earn...and even harder to get back once you've lost it.

Ben Wallace started the Malice of the Palace. We were kicking their butt and he got frustrated with Artest and tried to start a fight. Artest even tried to walk away and then someone threw a beer on him. Anyone that gets a beer thrown on them -the thrower deserves to be knocked out. I bet if someone poured a beer on your head you wouldn't give them a hug. 

 

-The Patriots organization got caught cheating not once but twice, Spygate and DeflateGate. I cant wait for the ball boys to eventually come out and admit they deflated the balls for Brady. So people that say it was Gas laws will look foolish and the people that mocked this will look like fools too. It will happen eventually, nothing stays a secret forever in todays world.

[George Peterson]

20 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Ben Wallace started the Malice of the Palace. We were kicking their butt and he got frustrated with Artest and tried to start a fight. Artest even tried to walk away and then someone threw a beer on him. Anyone that gets a beer thrown on them deserves to be knocked out. I bet if someone poured a beer on your head you wouldn't give them a hug. 

 

-The Patriots organization got caught cheating not once but twice, Spygate and DeflateGate. I cant wait for the ball boys to eventually come out and admit they deflated the balls for Brady. So people that say it was Gas laws will look foolish and the people that mocked this will look like fools too. It will happen eventually, nothing stays a secret forever in todays world.

The Patriots never got caught "cheating."

 

They got stung in 2007 because Bill Belichick missed a memo and was filming a practice everyone else was filming too, from the wrong place under a ruleset passed just the previous year. 

 

So-called "spygate" was stupid (read your damn mail, Bill!), and it was a rules violation no doubt, but since no one has ever successfully proved that filming from the sidelines rather than the press box (where everyone else was filming the same event) actually grants a competitive advantage in any material way, calling it "cheating" is a real stretch of the language.

 

And in 2014 they got caught being lied about by the Commissioner, his stooges, and some * in the Colts organization, including mutually-acknowledged * Ryan Grigson who even Colts fans will admit at this point was not quite bright, when the league pressed a series of allegations against the Patriots that didn't stand up to reason, logic, good sense, or even a basic understanding of high school physics/fluid dynamics.   

 

And one of the faces of the NFL, one of the biggest name brands and money makers in all of professional football, had his name dragged through the mud with a suspension based on the flimsiest of technicalities, none of which had anything whatsoever to do with deflated footballs, and the only reason Goodell even got away with doing it is the union was stupid enough to give him carte blanche to be judge, jury and executioner.

 

There is nothing in Deflategate that even comes close to "getting caught cheating."  Even if you don't believe that high school physics textbooks exist, most of the footballs were within a reasonable margin of error of the PSI limits and within about a quarter of a PSI of the Colts footballs -- which were also, incidentally, below the lower limit.  The only exception is a single Patriots football that had been in the possession of the Colts bench prior to the investigation, which was found to be a bit further under the limit than the rest. (I'll leave to the fertile imaginations of the curious how that Patriots football on the Colts sideline might have been deflated when the news of possible deflation was first broken by a Colts beat writer)

 

Either way, no one ever managed to so much as prove that footballs were deflated, much less that anyone had deliberately deflated them.  This is one of those rare cases that saying that the Patriots "getting caught cheating," contains 2 individual, unique lies, each an untruth unto itself.

[crazycolt1]

26 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

The Patriots never got caught "cheating."

 

They got stung in 2007 because Bill Belichick missed a memo and was filming a practice everyone else was filming too, from the wrong place under a ruleset passed just the previous year. 

 

So-called "spygate" was stupid (read your damn mail, Bill!), and it was a rules violation no doubt, but since no one has ever successfully proved that filming from the sidelines rather than the press box (where everyone else was filming the same event) actually grants a competitive advantage in any material way, calling it "cheating" is a real stretch of the language.

 

And in 2014 they got caught being lied about by the Commissioner, his stooges, and some * in the Colts organization, including mutually-acknowledged * Ryan Grigson who even Colts fans will admit at this point was not quite bright, when the league pressed a series of allegations against the Patriots that didn't stand up to reason, logic, good sense, or even a basic understanding of high school physics/fluid dynamics.   

 

And one of the faces of the NFL, one of the biggest name brands and money makers in all of professional football, had his name dragged through the mud with a suspension based on the flimsiest of technicalities, none of which had anything whatsoever to do with deflated footballs, and the only reason Goodell even got away with doing it is the union was stupid enough to give him carte blanche to be judge, jury and executioner.

 

There is nothing in Deflategate that even comes close to "getting caught cheating."  Even if you don't believe that high school physics textbooks exist, most of the footballs were within a reasonable margin of error of the PSI limits and within about a quarter of a PSI of the Colts footballs -- which were also, incidentally, below the lower limit.  The only exception is a single Patriots football that had been in the possession of the Colts bench prior to the investigation, which was found to be a bit further under the limit than the rest. (I'll leave to the fertile imaginations of the curious how that Patriots football on the Colts sideline might have been deflated when the news of possible deflation was first broken by a Colts beat writer)

 

Either way, no one ever managed to so much as prove that footballs were deflated, much less that anyone had deliberately deflated them.  This is one of those rare cases that saying that the Patriots "getting caught cheating," contains 2 individual, unique lies, each an untruth unto itself.

Defending the Patriots in this forum is a waste of time.

There is a reason the patriots have been the most fined and had more draft picks taken away than any other team in the NFL. 

You may not call what they do cheating but unethical practices and a lack of integrity are two things they are guilty of.

Every time anyone brings anything negative in this forum aimed at the Patriots you run to their defense.

I have news for you.  I highly doubt anyone cares what you have to say or think as far as the Patriots are concerned.

[George Peterson]

15 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Defending the Patriots in this forum is a waste of time.

There is a reason the patriots have been the most fined and had more draft picks taken away than any other team in the NFL. 

Agreed.  They have been targeted for far more aggressive punishments than other franchises have by a Commissioner's office that is concerned with parity over fairness.  However when it comes to professional sports, "cheating" is a word that has a lot of meaning and should be only used when the cheating can be confirmed.

 

Which from a standpoint of the latest 2 Patriots scandals, really has not been done.  The only confirmed scandal is Spygate, and even in Spygate there is no confirmed advantage gained and the only confirmed misbehavior was Bill ignoring a memo and getting punished over a technicality.

 

Peyton "HGH to my wife's address" Manning has a greater history of confirmed cheating than the NEP do at the moment.  And of course there's the great triumverate of cheating in the AFC -- the Steelers, the Broncos, and the Jets, all of whom have been punished or accused of far more serious problems over the years than the Patriots probably ever will.

 

The media will do what it does, and angry fans will believe what they want to believe, but the truth is the truth.  The Broncos in particular are probably the worst cheaters in the entire history of the NFL, with multiple confirmed salary cap violations in the Elway era the longest PED rapsheet in the league, an order of magnitude greater than the next worst offender BTW (which is the Steelers),  The Jets have the most technical rules violations when it comes to interfering with players and coaches.  The Patriots?  As cheaters go, they're a little shadier than average, but not much.  The difference is that they cheat and win.  The Jets, Steelers and broncos just cheat.

[dgambill]

57 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Ben Wallace started the Malice of the Palace. We were kicking their butt and he got frustrated with Artest and tried to start a fight. Artest even tried to walk away and then someone threw a beer on him. Anyone that gets a beer thrown on them -the thrower deserves to be knocked out. I bet if someone poured a beer on your head you wouldn't give them a hug. 

 

-The Patriots organization got caught cheating not once but twice, Spygate and DeflateGate. I cant wait for the ball boys to eventually come out and admit they deflated the balls for Brady. So people that say it was Gas laws will look foolish and the people that mocked this will look like fools too. It will happen eventually, nothing stays a secret forever in todays world.

Your wrong....I've had a beer thrown on me in college more than a couple times. I might not have had a very nice thing to say but I walked away. I've never put my hands on anyone except to defend myself...only a couple times when people took swings. There was no reason for him to go running into the crowd nor for any of Jackson, Artest, or J Oneil to start taking swings at people running onto the court. The security was awful but Ron did no favors laying down on the scorers table and instigating the crowd. Let's be honest here...that was not a choir boy Pacers teams....it was made up of by several questionable character players. It was a bad mix to put together..that while talented were volatile. Artest and Jackson both had a checkered past....that team was a powder keg waiting to blow. I just feel bad for the fan that he went after because he didn't even get the guy that threw the beer. Anyways...it was an embarrassment...and I didn't support the Pacers for a long time after that until the team was basically wiped clean of those attitudes.

[dgambill]

These threads are pointless. We can vilify these guys and that organization all we want. It won't change anything that happens between the white lines. We don't like them...and I'm pretty sure they don't care about us enough to not like us....at least not since Peyton left. The only way they even will remotely care is when we become a threat....but hopefully that will be soon. Also it's pointless to argue with Patriot fans.....I'm going to say most...likely 98% are going to explain it away, make excuses, or pretend like nothing happened for any and all their mis-deeds. Your not going to change their minds and they won't change the rest of the worlds mind. To them its jealousy...and to us its just plain simple lack of objectivity.

 

Like I said...these two men are more than just what they do on Sundays...and they've done a lot of good and wonderful things for others...but no matter how successful and talented they are the character of their football program however is definitely lacking.

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

Agreed.  They have been targeted for far more aggressive punishments than other franchises have by a Commissioner's office that is concerned with parity over fairness.  However when it comes to professional sports, "cheating" is a word that has a lot of meaning and should be only used when the cheating can be confirmed.  Which from a standpoint of the latest 2 Patriots scandals, really has not been done.  The only confirmed scandal is Spygate, and even in Spygate there is no confirmed advantage gained.

There is one statement that was said early in the investigation of deflategate that has stood out to me and has never been explained.  Straight up Brady was ask if he cheated. What was his answer?  "I don't think so".  It was not a simple no.  We still haven't heard from Jastremski or McNally and that in itself is suspicious. Till we hear from them there will always be doubt. (under oath)  It's not human nature to be accused of something and not come forward to explain and or defend yourself.  Brady's refusal to cooperate with the investigation also causes suspicion. I for one do not believe in coincidences that Brady just happened to get a new cell phone when ask for his to be turned over.

Add all this up and IMO people have to be really stupid to believe nothing wasn't going on.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Ben Wallace started the Malice of the Palace. We were kicking their butt and he got frustrated with Artest and tried to start a fight. Artest even tried to walk away and then someone threw a beer on him. Anyone that gets a beer thrown on them -the thrower deserves to be knocked out. I bet if someone poured a beer on your head you wouldn't give them a hug. 

 

-The Patriots organization got caught cheating not once but twice, Spygate and DeflateGate. I cant wait for the ball boys to eventually come out and admit they deflated the balls for Brady. So people that say it was Gas laws will look foolish and the people that mocked this will look like fools too. It will happen eventually, nothing stays a secret forever in todays world.

Sorry Cb. Defending Artest when there was security people in place to take care of people like that (who threw the beer) is wrong. His hot head actions may have killed one of only two chances to win a championship in Indy.

Players getting beer throw at or on them was nothing new at the time and still happens today once in a while.

[aaron11]

what a bunch of jerks

 

i hope they all go down!

[dynasty13]

27 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

There is one statement that was said early in the investigation of deflategate that has stood out to me and has never been explained.  Straight up Brady was ask if he cheated. What was his answer?  "I don't think so".  It was not a simple no.  We still haven't heard from Jastremski or McNally and that in itself is suspicious. Till we hear from them there will always be doubt. (under oath)  It's not human nature to be accused of something and not come forward to explain and or defend yourself.  Brady's refusal to cooperate with the investigation also causes suspicion. I for one do not believe in coincidences that Brady just happened to get a new cell phone when ask for his to be turned over.

Add all this up and IMO people have to be really stupid to believe nothing wasn't going on.

 

I love the 'under oath' part of this response.

 

Not to get into all this again, but why are you waiting on pins and needles to hear from those guys 'under oath' while completely dismissing what we heard from Tom Brady while 'under oath'? Do their comments 'under oath' hold more credibility somehow than Tom Brady's comments 'under oath'?

 

Because right now you are taking circumstantial evidence and assumed intent of a few text messages over the 'under oath' testimony of the one supposedly involved. I mean, if the 'under oath' testimony is the be all end all, why ignore the one that's already been made?!??

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

 

I love the 'under oath' part of this response.

 

Not to get into all this again, but why are you waiting on pins and needles to hear from those guys 'under oath' while completely dismissing what we heard from Tom Brady while 'under oath'? Do their comments 'under oath' hold more credibility somehow than Tom Brady's comments 'under oath'?

 

Because right now you are taking circumstantial evidence and assumed intent of a few text messages over the 'under oath' testimony of the one supposedly involved. I mean, if the 'under oath' testimony is the be all end all, why ignore the one that's already been made?!??

 In your mind your team did nothing wrong so explaining anything to you would be a waste of time. I thought I was pretty plain and made it real easy to understand for people that have an open mind and are not influenced by their fandom.

[dynasty13]

11 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

 In your mind your team did nothing wrong so explaining anything to you would be a waste of time. I thought I was pretty plain and made it real easy to understand for people that have an open mind and are not influenced by their fandom.

 

Just a simple question, no more no less. Would you find the testimonies of those guys under oath more credible than the testimony already given under oath by Tom Brady?

 

And just to be clear, I'm making no reference to which side of this I'm on or what I believe or don't, I'm simply asking why you would automatically believe one under oath testimony over another.

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

 

Just a simple question, no more no less. Would you find the testimonies of those guys under oath more credible than the testimony already given under oath by Tom Brady?

 

And just to be clear, I'm making no reference to which side of this I'm on or what I believe or don't, I'm simply asking why you would automatically believe one under oath testimony over another.

Brady was coached and was very vague in his testimony. He was smart enough not to incriminate himself.

His lack of cooperation in the investigation speaks volumes.

The Patriots tuned a simple phone call by Grigson into being the victims. Classic.

[Reality Check]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

LOL it was even a rivalry when those 2 team played in the AFC East a long time ago. It has always been a huge rivalry, just because a team has beat the other team for a few years doesn't mean it isn't a rivalry. When we had Peyton it was rated the best rivalry of all-time.

It is nice that people in the Colts organization & their fans think there is a rivalry....and, hopefully, that will come to fruition someday.

 

However, if you were in NE right now, neither the Pats nor their fans consider there is any kind of rivalry between the 2 teams right now.  TBH, I am not even sure when the last time they played each other was??

 

The Colts have bigger issues within their own division IMO.