The beginning of the end of football.

[Coffeedrinker]

Mods, I'm posting this here because it does pertain to the Colts in an indirect way and this is the most read forum on here. If, however, you feel you need to move the topic, I understand and I apologize.

Stephen Davis sues the NFL

Why I think this is the beginning of the end is because this will trickle down to colleges and then to high schools and all it is going to take is for one high school to be found negligent and then all high schools will drop their football programs because the liability will be too great.

Then the colleges and NFL are going to have to make a choice and that will lead to the development of prep leagues sponsored by colleges and the NFL and basically you will have high school kids getting paid via scholarships to prep schools to play football. I know that happens some now but it will happen on a my larger scale if that is the only way for a kid to play football.

It's not going to change overnight or even this decade but in 20 years the player pool for college and then the NFL is going to be drastically different than it is now, if there is still the game of football then.

[Smonroe]

I don't want to make light of this, but I relate it to the anti-smoking campaigns. The lawyers made out like bandits, the people who were damaged receive little if anything, and in the end the lawsuits and 'awareness' did next to nothing in preventing people from smoking.

Football is as addictive than smoking, if I can make that analogy. Lawyers will go after the deep pockets, but football will go on.

If anything good comes out of it, it will be improvements in equipment.

[The Fish]

The sports media that has been pumping on these stories the last year are working their way out of a job.

I think the lawsuits will force the games hand, but there too much money involved in the NFL for any potential "banning" to happen overnight.

[21isSuperman]

I've heard people say that if football were invented in the year 2000, it would have been banned by the year 2003. Do you agree?

[Coffeedrinker]

I don't want to make light of this, but I relate it to the anti-smoking campaigns. The lawyers made out like bandits, the people who were damaged receive little if anything, and in the end the lawsuits and 'awareness' did next to nothing in preventing people from smoking.

Football is as addictive than smoking, if I can make that analogy. Lawyers will go after the deep pockets, but football will go on.

If anything good comes out of it, it will be improvements in equipment.

I understand where you are coming from but I disagree about the the awareness did next to nothing to prevent people from smoking. In California the anti-smoking campaigns worked so well that a lot of people did stop smoking and the states lost billions in revenues from the taxes on cigerettes and that loss of revenue is one of the big reasons why California has been in a budget crisis for the last few years rather than starting in 2020 when it was expected. Same thing with New York and that is why new york has waged their war against soda now. a big reason why the tobacco industry was not effected as a whole is because of China. The head of Phillip Morris stated at one time that a one penny increase in the cigarettes sold in China would pay for all the lawsuits against the tobacco industry in three weeks. The NFL does not have that option.

[Coffeedrinker]

I've heard people say that if football were invented in the year 2000, it would have been banned by the year 2003. Do you agree?

LOL that is very interesting and I've heard it said about other things as well... if automobiles were invented now... I'm going to cop-out and not say whether I agree or disagree with that because it requires some thought.

But initially I would say I agree with that because we, as a society, are very wimpy anymore and the game of football goes against so many things they try (wrongly I might ad) to teach nowadays. Because they do keep score, it is a violent game, there are right and wrong ways to do things, it's a very dictatorship run program, rather than a socialist run program (although some of the profit sharing could be construed as socialistic).

Actually I take back my cop-out, yes I would agree with that statement.

[mark5362]

I don't think any of it will ever be the end of football,However it may be the beginning of sign the waiver or you don't play. NFL, College or High school Where not responsible. Play at your own risk.

[21isSuperman]

I don't think any of it will ever be the end of football,However it may be the beginning of sign the waiver or you don't play. NFL, College or High school Where not responsible. Play at your own risk.

I think that would be very unfortunate. Injuries are a part of sports, all sports. Every single sport in the world has injuries. And all players know the risks before they step onto the field. To require players to sign a waiver, to me, would be very unfortunate.

[Superman]

I don't see how this is different from the noise that's been going on for the past two years or so. Maybe piling on, but if football is doomed, it has been long before Stephen Davis joined the cause.

JMO

[Cynjin]

Just one more example of why this country is in need of tort reform.

[Smitto]

Football will never be banned, ppl love playing and watching football

[Smonroe]

I understand where you are coming from but I disagree about the the awareness did next to nothing to prevent people from smoking. .. The head of Phillip Morris stated at one time that a one penny increase in the cigarettes sold in China would pay for all the lawsuits against the tobacco industry in three weeks. The NFL does not have that option.

Coffee, I didn't mean to get into a smoking debate. I was just trying to point out that the tobacco industry survived the lawsuits. If you'll look at the studies, you'll see that since then smoking has leveled off, not decreased. (I'm not defending smoking, I hate it.)

Anyway, your last sentence made me think... the NFL is really trying to push to other countries. A conspiracy theorist might say the NFL has the same plan as the tobacco industry! Now, I wouldn't say that... but it makes you go hmmmm.

[dw49]

They have done a big "revamping" of Pop Warner programs. They pretty much made tackling illegal. Maybe I over stated that as I didn't read the article in detail. I think that this all is somewhere in between. Maybe not the beginning of the end , but they are going to change this game in a big way starting from the bottom and woking up.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

I understand where you are coming from but I disagree about the the awareness did next to nothing to prevent people from smoking. In California the anti-smoking campaigns worked so well that a lot of people did stop smoking and the states lost billions in revenues from the taxes on cigerettes and that loss of revenue is one of the big reasons why California has been in a budget crisis for the last few years rather than starting in 2020 when it was expected. Same thing with New York and that is why new york has waged their war against soda now. a big reason why the tobacco industry was not effected as a whole is because of China. The head of Phillip Morris stated at one time that a one penny increase in the cigarettes sold in China would pay for all the lawsuits against the tobacco industry in three weeks. The NFL does not have that option.

I think that the 500% increase in the cost of a pack may have been the reason some of those people quit. It was for me anyway. jmo

[MAC]

I was just trying to point out that the tobacco industry survived the lawsuits. If you'll look at the studies, you'll see that since then smoking has leveled off, not decreased. (I'm not defending smoking, I hate it.)

I don't need any studies to tell me that smoking has dropped off a cliff in this country. Not sure how old you are, but the most basic circumstancial evidence is that when I was young, a high percentage of people that I knew smoked. Now, hardly anyone I know smokes. Actually I can only think of one off the top of my head. You used to be able to smoke anywhere, now you can only smoke in the privacy of your own home or car. There used to be advertising everywhere, now it's mostly banned. People used to buy cigarettes by the multiple carton load and act like they were Joe Cool for doing so, now they buy at most a pack or two with the same demeanor as someone buying a dirty magazine. The entire culture has changed, and it is impossible that this hasn't impacted the cigarette companies.

Maybe they are growing their sales in other parts of the world. The NFL doesn't realistically have that option.

[Gavin]

"I just want to be fair," Davis said. "Football is a contact sport. We all know that. It has its consequences. But the thing is that we were put in situations where if you're not on the field, you won't make this team.

so players that ride the bench and collect a nice big check compared to the real world out there dont make the team?

So it took these players that are suing the NFL how many years to realize that if you collide time and time again with other players then there is a risk of long term affects? (some players of which dont have) Willie Mcginest never complains of concussions or injuries, same with Micheal Irvin, Jerry Rice, Trent Dilfer

There is no real information being withheld in my opinion, Its common sense if you collide with someone or something long enough and hard enough repeatedly

The chances go up that you will have consequences of that in the future, thats not withheld information

Look I get that players deserve some form of help from the NFL but come on man suing the NFL isnt the way to go about it

[Creekside]

This is not about shutting down the game, it is about shaking it down.

[Warhorse]

I love it when a single issue is pointed out as the culprit or the cure all. It never has been about knowing or not knowing the risk of injury. It is about the undisclosed pressure to remain playing while injured or lose your job. That is where the NFL has failed, and it is where they can heal this. If a player has dedicated his whole life to this game, and the only option he has to get the payday he has worked for is to begin killing his brain to keep from getting cut or demoted, and that pressure is being applied by teams, then they are wrong. Period.

I for one see this as a strengthening of the league in the long run. Bout time.

[buccolts]

"I just want to be fair," Davis said. "Football is a contact sport. We all know that. It has its consequences. But the thing is that we were put in situations where if you're not on the field, you won't make this team.

so players that ride the bench and collect a nice big check compared to the real world out there dont make the team?

So it took these players that are suing the NFL how many years to realize that if you collide time and time again with other players then there is a risk of long term affects? (some players of which dont have) Willie Mcginest never complains of concussions or injuries, same with Micheal Irvin, Jerry Rice, Trent Dilfer

There is no real information being withheld in my opinion, Its common sense if you collide with someone or something long enough and hard enough repeatedly

The chances go up that you will have consequences of that in the future, thats not withheld information

Look I get that players deserve some form of help from the NFL but come on man suing the NFL isnt the way to go about it

I really hate bringing this guy into any conversation, but Deion Sanders consistently made 'Business Decisions'.

Though I suppose he had the luxury to do so most of the time.

Difficult for a MLB to make many 'Business Decisions'.

[Gavin]

Its the nature of the business just like if I was to have a job and I did it poorly then someone else would be put in my place to do that job, likewise if I hurt myself out on a job then that company who I was working for I would expect to have some sort of benefit for being injured on the job which I thought that the NFL was helping with players who have suffered long term affects from there job. but to claim that the NFL concealed the long term affects of concussions is laughable, common sense would tell a person if they run repeatedly head down at full speed into someone there will affects you will suffer if you do it long enough, in my opinion Davis is just trying to milk the league for more money

[funktacious2]

I've heard people say that if football were invented in the year 2000, it would have been banned by the year 2003. Do you agree?

MMA has received massive growth since 2000, and its survived all the criticism. Not exactly the same thing, but it's got to count for something.

[conklincolt]

but they all like their millions dollar paycheck for six months a year,thats not a problem

[il vecchio]

I don't believe that football is doomed, but they do need to do more to prevent injuries. My unpopular suggestion is to install slower playing surfaces. IMO the game will still be exciting if the players' speed is 10-15% slower. That's probably as fast as it was when Jim Brown played. Passing, blocking, tackling and strategy are mainstays to the game. You can get speed at a track meet.

Even with slower speeds and better helmets, football's inherently dangerous. If the players are all told that upfront and given concussion and other injury statistics, then the NFL should be held harmless. Get a real job with a normal paycheck then, if you prefer.

[nsurg]

Just one more example of why this country is in need of tort reform.

Amen... but remember that the lawyers make the laws, so I guess it will never happen.

We are literally the world's fattest country with the most lawyers--lots of consumption and lots of blame?

Back to the article: The only change that will be made is that someday people will make football players sign waivers stating that football is dangerous. Is there any other country in the world that reminds people that their coffee is hot? Can't be many others if any.

Concussions will never go away even with stand-up linemen, new rules, and new helmets, we'll just have more paperwork and siphon more money into the pockets of those who manage our disputes.

[John Dee]

I don't want to make light of this, but I relate it to the anti-smoking campaigns. The lawyers made out like bandits, the people who were damaged receive little if anything, and in the end the lawsuits and 'awareness' did next to nothing in preventing people from smoking.

Football is as addictive than smoking, if I can make that analogy. Lawyers will go after the deep pockets, but football will go on.

If anything good comes out of it, it will be improvements in equipment.

MONEY.... That is all that need be said. The NFL is a GOLDMINE.

It will only grow.... and too many's misfortune... (players)

[John Dee]

Amen... but remember that the lawyers make the laws, so I guess it will never happen.

We are literally the world's fattest country with the most lawyers--lots of consumption and lots of blame?

Back to the article: The only change that will be made is that someday people will make football players sign waivers stating that football is dangerous. Is there any other country in the world that reminds people that their coffee is hot? Can't be many others if any.

Concussions will never go away even with stand-up linemen, new rules, and new helmets, we'll just have more paperwork and siphon more money into the pockets of those who manage our disputes.

Ding Ding Ding....

[GoColts8818]

Football will never be banned, ppl love playing and watching football

and a year ago no one ever saw what was coming with Joe Paterno. I am not trying to say this is anything close to that I am just saying never say never and sighting that as an example of something you would have never seen coming. I think it would take a lot to get football banned but I don't think it's impossible either. If the NFL loses these law suits coming at them from ex players and it's big settlements awarded to those players that alone could take down the NFL because while they have extremely deep pockets they aren't endless pockets and if one player wins that law suit you are going to see every guy who ever once played in the NFL try to get their hands in the pot.

Even then though that would just kill the NFL not get football banned. I want to say first I hope this never happens but if a player or two were to be killed on the football field from a football related injury that could very well get the game banned. I know autosports have resulted in deaths but I think people would look at them in a different light people understand you can die from a car accident they don't expect you to die playing a game. Fair or not that's how a lot of people will look at it.

[John Dee]

and a year ago no one ever saw what was coming with Joe Paterno. I am not trying to say this is anything close to that I am just saying never say never and sighting that as an example of something you would have never seen coming. I think it would take a lot to get football banned but I don't think it's impossible either. If the NFL loses these law suits coming at them from ex players and it's big settlements awarded to those players that alone could take down the NFL because while they have extremely deep pockets they aren't endless pockets and if one player wins that law suit you are going to see every guy who ever once played in the NFL try to get their hands in the pot.

Even then though that would just kill the NFL not get football banned. I want to say first I hope this never happens but if a player or two were to be killed on the football field from a football related injury that could very well get the game banned. I know autosports have resulted in deaths but I think people would look at them in a different light people understand you can die from a car accident they don't expect you to die playing a game. Fair or not that's how a lot of people will look at it.

The Paterno comparison is not very good.

Every person that pust on the pads "know" they will get hit.

As technology advances and info comes forth you will see as an above poster stated .. "waivers"...

It's really simple.

the only way this implodes is "IF" a player can prove a team doctor lied to them.. THEN... it is still a team issue.

I think the NFL is safe...

[John Dee]

The bottom line is money... and I bet it wins out...

[GoColts8818]

The Paterno comparison is not very good.

Every person that pust on the pads "know" they will get hit.

As technology advances and info comes forth you will see as an above poster stated .. "waivers"...

It's really simple.

the only way this implodes is "IF" a player can prove a team doctor lied to them.. THEN... it is still a team issue.

I think the NFL is safe...

It is if you get what I was saying with it. I clearly said that the two situations aren't the same but I was using it as an example of a situation that a year ago that most people would have said would NEVER happen. Samething with this. People can say football will never be banned and they might very well be right but all it would take is the right serious of events and football could very well have a downfall. Not unlike what happened to Paterno all it took was the right serious of events to destroy his legacy again something no one saw coming at this time last year.

We'll see what happens with these lawsuits but if the NFL loses and the players win and they get a huge settlement the NFL doesn't have that kind of money to cover all those lawsuits. Now if the players win and get a USFL type of settlement the league will be fine. It will come down to the money and who wins. You are stating what you think has to happen in order for someone to win. When it comes to a civil trial like that you never know. It just takes the judge or jury agreeing with your side of the story and no one knows which way those people will fall because we don't know where their values and understanding of the rules fall. Who knows they might get one that sees the big bad NFL picking on the poor older player they wouldn't be the first major corporation to lose a lawsuit largely because they are the major corporation. It will be interesting to watch and see what happens. They could also get a judge or jury that pretty much feels like funny it took this long for you to voice a complaint now and hey you just happen to be out of money... We don't know what's going to happen. I am not the only concerned about that. Listen to ESPN or your sports network of your choice when this topic comes up they all say the samething the league has reason to be worried about these lawsuits being brought against them.

Even if they do go to waviers it doesn't take care of the players who have already played in the league and those are the ones who would get the money. It would protect them from future lawsuits but it wont help them against older players. The league's best hope is to plead ignorance on the concussion's front and show everything they have done to try to clean up the game since they become aware of the risks and then use today's players against them by showing how guys like James Harrison fight the suspensions and all the quotes they have from players like Peyton Manning admitting he sets a low base score on purpose in case he gets hurt so he can keep playing and saying it only becomes an issue when these players are retired and out of money. That can be a strong case if made right and I have no reason to think that the NFL doesn't have lawyers to make a strong case.

I would agree if the NFL were to fall it wouldn't happen over night. I just don't think it's impossible. Like anything if the right events were to happen the NFL and football can crumble just like anything else can.

[Hans Moleman]

There is no real information being withheld in my opinion, Its common sense if you collide with someone or something long enough and hard enough repeatedly

The chances go up that you will have consequences of that in the future, thats not withheld information

It is common sense, which makes it all the more appalling that the NFL denied it even less than 5 years ago. There's clips on YouTube right now where the NFL's doctors officially deny things so blatantly obvious to everyone else you'd swear they were working for a tobacco company, and the evidence is there in medical journals where their guy is literally the only one discrediting studies on head trauma and the long term effects.

The reason is simple: It's not because grown men wouldn't still sign up to play, it's because that admitting the sport's danger makes it more expensive for schools to offer and it makes it tougher to sell the game as being safe for children. It didn't want the same thing that happened to boxing in schools 50 years ago to happen to it, and that's why they denied even basic facts that've been obvious to everyone else.

Problem is, they can't have it both ways. If I openly deny the risks of it in order to keep the game in schools and sell the game as something that's good and safe for kids, I open myself up to lawsuits by not being honest about the true risks when my players inevitably suffer from them. The league could've sidestepped this landmine years ago if they chose to....but it would've been at the expense of lessening its own talent and fan base in the future.

They chose to protect the latter knowing it'd expose them to the lawsuits. And that's why, no matter how money grubbing one may see the players are in this, these lawsuits are necessary and good for the sport. It's better they're forced to be upfront and honest to participants and parents now at the risk of fewer kids playing as opposed to doing this disgracefully weird dance of promising hard hits and violence every week while telling people everything's going to be A-ok. The league needs to own what it is and embrace it instead of trying to be everything to everyone. That, I could respect.

[Smitto]

and a year ago no one ever saw what was coming with Joe Paterno. I am not trying to say this is anything close to that I am just saying never say never and sighting that as an example of something you would have never seen coming. I think it would take a lot to get football banned but I don't think it's impossible either. If the NFL loses these law suits coming at them from ex players and it's big settlements awarded to those players that alone could take down the NFL because while they have extremely deep pockets they aren't endless pockets and if one player wins that law suit you are going to see every guy who ever once played in the NFL try to get their hands in the pot.

Even then though that would just kill the NFL not get football banned. I want to say first I hope this never happens but if a player or two were to be killed on the football field from a football related injury that could very well get the game banned. I know autosports have resulted in deaths but I think people would look at them in a different light people understand you can die from a car accident they don't expect you to die playing a game. Fair or not that's how a lot of people will look at it.

There was this soccer player who just dropped while playing....They presumed him dead I believe but came back to it after sometime on the field....Idk the full details but he was in a coma....Soccer is still going on strong, I think regardless of what happens ppl will always love the sport and there's money to make from it....Something that brings in such a huge amount of gross LEGALLY....There's no way it'll ever be banned.

[MCurtis32]

My late father inlaw used to say, " remove those helmets and shoulder pads, those guys will stop running into walls and trying to knock each other out." Running backs will not lead with their heads. Football will never be banned, but it will be changed. Kids cant ride bikes or skateboards without helmets. We as adults cant choose not to ware seatbelts. Insurance companies control losses in this country. They do not like to pay out. All these teams have insurance. Once they start paying out, things will change very quickly. My Father in-Law was C.E.O of National reinsurance of Germany. He was hashing this out 10 years ago, and it is still on the table.