Colts have the 15th pick in the draft. (MERGE)

[ShuteAt168]

Mock by the Athletic today has Arnold and Mitchell both gone before we pick. Has us taking Verse, Edge from Fla St. (I don’t like this mock because it has trades) 

[Hoose]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think the top teams in the playoff proved one thing. Franchise qb and solid lines sprinkled in with good wr play but not elite. Plus, I think you have to give Richardson a year with these  guys to find out if it was qb play why they were not hitting their potential or they suck lol. Do Pierce and the TE's break out with Richardson? One thing we do know is that the D lacks any playmakers except for an aging DT. I think the term WR1 is vastly overused. To be honest, there might be only a few true  #1 wr's in the league who are worthy of that label. I am thinking Jefferson, Hill, Chase etc. I think there are a lot of teams who have a couple wr twos on their team and there is nothing wrong with that. Look at Houston. They had Collins and Dell to take the top off. No true number one but they each had their role. Collins works the inside and Dell takes the top off. Diggs is no longer a #1, so in reality, Houston will probably be show casing 3 number 2 receivers.

Ok. I can agree that a couple of top   “WR2s” can get the job done in some cases. And I don’t disagree that the D needs upgrading. Which is why I suggested that CB and a Pass Rusher were also needed. 
But my vision of a WR 1 is one who can take the top off the opposing D with speed and great route running. That guy may be there for the Colts at 15 (Thomas Jr.) or perhaps later if a slight trade down occurs ( Adonai Mitchell). If he is, I’m hoping he’s their #1 pick. 

[Solid84]

 

[GoColts8818]

4 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

 

Worth reminding people this is the same webpage that Destin works for and ran with the Sneed trade stuff.

[Solid84]

He may not be worth the 15th overall, but he could be a trade back target.

[Solid84]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Worth reminding people this is the same webpage that Destin works for and ran with the Sneed trade stuff.

I don't think it's happening. I'll believe it when I see it.

[Moosejawcolt]

28 minutes ago, Hoose said:

Ok. I can agree that a couple of top   “WR2s” can get the job done in some cases. And I don’t disagree that the D needs upgrading. Which is why I suggested that CB and a Pass Rusher were also needed. 
But my vision of a WR 1 is one who can take the top off the opposing D with speed and great route running. That guy may be there for the Colts at 15 (Thomas Jr.) or perhaps later if a slight trade down occurs ( Adonai Mitchell). If he is, I’m hoping he’s their #1 pick. 

Sure you can get that guy to take the top off but I would argue that we have no one on defense that can stop the opposing wr's rom taking the top off. u dont have to be a top 15 pick to take the top off. You can find a receiver in the 2nd or 3rd round who is fast,  runs a limited route tree, but his job is to scare the defense. We have Pittman and Downs who have certain skill set. We are hoping that Pierce can develop. This defense is really void of any talent as we speak. It continually rates near the bottom but our offense showed signs of improving with Richardson in their. To me it is the D that needs playmakers and it is so glaring. 

[GoColts8818]

12 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I don't think it's happening. I'll believe it when I see it.

That’s more than fair just a reminder more for people who might not have followed it that closely.

[Moosejawcolt]

39 minutes ago, ShuteAt168 said:

Mock by the Athletic today has Arnold and Mitchell both gone before we pick. Has us taking Verse, Edge from Fla St. (I don’t like this mock because it has trades) 

look at free agency and what did the Colts try and do? They tried to sign a DE and were sniffing around a corner. That tells me that they see those as the primary need on this team. Ballard basically said he didn't give Gus the weapons. To me this draft needs to be defensive heavy in the 1st two rounds. I am scared of this team with regards to hitting on defensive line talent. After 8 years Ballard was only able to acquire   one premier player on D and that was through a trade. He has really missed on most of his picks on the defensive line. I cannot really think of one player, maybe except Stewart, who has played up to and/or surpassed where they were drafted. There is a long list of meh D line players that this team has drafted.  Iwouldnt even rule out DT as Buckner is coming up for a new contract. Team needs defensive talent big time

[Moosejawcolt]

39 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

 

When has this stuff materialized to become true ?There are probably 4 people in that building who know what they are doing with their picks. Steichen, Ballard, Irsay and Brown. I don't believe a word of it. Plus, if they were to trade up, that is a pretty damning assessment of Ballard's drafting at the tight end position as it would say they have already given up on the young guys as  they drafted TE's  in the 2 previous drafts. Do i think they could trade up? Sure but no one knows but those four guys. Remember this is a team who traded for Buckner and not a work of it leaked out. Once again twitter throwing stuff at a wall hoping it sticks.

[colts89]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Why would a team trade back for a few mid round picks and miss out on elite wrs?   I think it will cost a lot more than that

This isn't an absolute, but I'm basing it on the NFL Trade Value chart. https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp

 

If you want an immediate example, Arizona traded the #12 pick, a second and a fifth rounder for Detriot's #6 pick and a third rounder last year. A similar package is probably required to trade up from #15 to #6-#10.

 

Some teams have receiving threats on their roster. Some teams need to find answers for more than one hole in the draft, and are willing to go for more picks in order to do just that. I think the Colts roster is solid enough overall that we can afford to not have a few third rounders on the chance that we can get the right guy paired up with AR.

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

When has this stuff materialized to become true ?There are probably 4 people in that building who know what they are doing with their picks. Steichen, Ballard, Irsay and Brown. I don't believe a word of it. Plus, if they were to trade up, that is a pretty damning assessment of Ballard's drafting at the tight end position as it would say they have already given up on the young guys as  they drafted TE's  in the 2 previous drafts. Do i think they could trade up? Sure but no one knows but those four guys. Remember this is a team who traded for Buckner and not a work of it leaked out. Once again twitter throwing stuff at a wall hoping it sticks.

Add at least one more to your list.   Ed Dodds.  He’s just under Ballard and ahead of Brown on the chain of command. 

[DougDew]

23 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

When has this stuff materialized to become true ?There are probably 4 people in that building who know what they are doing with their picks. Steichen, Ballard, Irsay and Brown. I don't believe a word of it. Plus, if they were to trade up, that is a pretty damning assessment of Ballard's drafting at the tight end position as it would say they have already given up on the young guys as  they drafted TE's  in the 2 previous drafts. Do i think they could trade up? Sure but no one knows but those four guys. Remember this is a team who traded for Buckner and not a work of it leaked out. Once again twitter throwing stuff at a wall hoping it sticks.

I said in the other thread, I would not be surprised if Ballard traded up this year to get one of the elite players, if there was a bright line to be drawn.  I don't think anybody would disagree that Bowers belongs in that group.

 

Look at where the real holes are on offense.  The WR group is a known quantity, Pitt, Downs, and AP all played a lot.  The TE group is more unknown.  Lots of role players, and Woods who was out all year, and Cox who probably could be a cap casualty.  I talked about the TE room being less impressive than many here thought.  I I think it is much less stable than the WR group as a whole.  Bowers could set the corner stone for that group, with everybody else filling in as the role players they seem to be.

 

On defense, RDE is a long term issues since Ebukam is not that, and Paye has apparently switched to LDE.  But I don;t know if trading up for an EDGE is necessary.  Corner has known quantities that can be worked with.  Of course, S is a hole, but that's not likely in the first round even with a trade down.

 

I think this trade rumor makes some sense.  Doesn't mean it isn't speculation, but there may be some legs with this one.  If so, I hope Ballard can include one of our redundant TEs in the trade, any one of them is fine w/me, to maybe help save having to give up pick 46.

[DougDew]

35 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

u dont have to be a top 15 pick to take the top off. You can find a receiver in the 2nd or 3rd round who is fast,  runs a limited route tree, but his job is to scare the defense.

Doesn't that almost describe AP perfectly?

[richard pallo]

59 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

 

Nonsense.

[jvan1973]

Just now, richard pallo said:

Nonsense.

Why is it nonsense?  I think bowers would thrive with Andy Reid.  I'm not sure how shane would work him in.   The kid is big and fast.   If he is in the right offense he will be good I think.   A great te is a wonderful help to a young QB

[cdgacoltsfan]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Why is it nonsense?  I think bowers would thrive with Andy Reid.  I'm not sure how shane would work him in.   The kid is big and fast.   If he is in the right offense he will be good I think.   A great te is a wonderful help to a young QB

I don't see Ballard using draft capital to trade up in round 1 , especially for a tight end.

[richard pallo]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

Why is it nonsense?  I think bowers would thrive with Andy Reid.  I'm not sure how shane would work him in.   The kid is big and fast.   If he is in the right offense he will be good I think.   A great te is a wonderful help to a young QB

We’ve invested a ton in TE for at least two years at least.  Woods hasn’t even seen the field.  I can’t see a trade up for him at all.  It would probably cost a 2nd and probably more.  Can’t see Shane or Ballard giving up that much for a TE when our current room has not been thoroughly evaluated.  If he falls to 15 maybe.  Even then I’m not sure I would do it.  Our secondary is what needs talent.  

[DattMavis]

14 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

We’ve invested a ton in TE for at least two years at least.  Woods hasn’t even seen the field.  I can’t see a trade up for him at all.  It would probably cost a 2nd and probably more.  Can’t see Shane or Ballard giving up that much for a TE when our current room has not been thoroughly evaluated.  If he falls to 15 maybe.  Even then I’m not sure I would do it.  Our secondary is what needs talent.  

I don't see Bowers as a TE. I'm not saying it's going to happen, because I don't think it will, but Bowers is a playmaker. You line him up in as many creative positions possible. He's not locked into playing as a traditional TE.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

We’ve invested a ton in TE for at least two years at least.

A ton?

 

Woods was a 3rd rounder.  We haven't invested anything higher than a 3rd rounder in the TE space in about 20 years.  That was Dallas Clark.   Both Doyle and Mo resigned to decent contracts here, but they came to the Colts as UDFA's, IIRC.

 

Ogletree a 5th, and Granson and Mallory, both limited players, 4ths.  Seems like at least one of them was probably BPA at the time.

[wig]

23 minutes ago, DougDew said:

A ton?

 

Woods was a 3rd rounder.  We haven't invested anything higher than a 3rd rounder in the TE space in about 20 years.  That was Dallas Clark.   Both Doyle and Mo resigned to decent contracts here, but they came to the Colts as UDFA's, IIRC.

 

Ogletree a 5th, and Granson and Mallory, both limited players, 4ths.  Seems like at least one of them was probably BPA at the time.

 

Yeah it's just a weird argument. The team has a solid foundation, I don't think any position should be off limits outside of QB and RB in the 1st for the right player 

[James]

3 hours ago, Solid84 said:

He may not be worth the 15th overall, but he could be a trade back target.

 

Honestly, I really like Cooper DeJean on the Colts. Even at 15.

 

He is sneaky athletic, a hard worker, a gym rat, scrappy, gritty and cerebral, has a high motor and high football IQ, plays the game the right way, does what it takes to win, a real lunch pail guy, first guy in last guy out, has a nose for the football, kind of guy you’d let date your daughter, a real coaches kid.

 

What’s not to like about him?

[1959Colts]

 

[Mikemccoy84]

To get Bowers you probably have to trade up to around 9 but that also puts you in range of whoever is left of Nabers,Harrison Jr., or Odunze

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Mikemccoy84 said:

To get Bowers you probably have to trade up to around 9 but that also puts you in range of whoever is left of Nabers,Harrison Jr., or Odunze

If it came down to Rome or Bowers, I would take Rome.

[Stephen]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If it came down to Rome or Bowers, I would take Rome.

Me to

[Superman]

3 hours ago, James said:

 

Honestly, I really like Cooper DeJean on the Colts. Even at 15.

 

He is sneaky athletic, a hard worker, a gym rat, scrappy, gritty and cerebral, has a high motor and high football IQ, plays the game the right way, does what it takes to win, a real lunch pail guy, first guy in last guy out, has a nose for the football, kind of guy you’d let date your daughter, a real coaches kid.

 

What’s not to like about him?

 

Is this post intentionally cliche? Just asking, because you hit all the buttons there.

 

I don't think DeJean is sneaky athletic. I think his athleticism is simply overrated and overstated. He's athletic for sure, but more in an explosive way than in a 'blur on the field' kind of way. His speed has a cap, he probably can't run and change direction with the really good receivers, and he gets beat down the field because of it.

 

I think he's more of a safety/nickel guy than a corner. DeJean in the first round is a rough one for me.

[Hawkeyecolt]

7 hours ago, Solid84 said:

He may not be worth the 15th overall, but he could be a trade back target.

He achieved these numbers only two weeks after medical clearance.  He didn’t have months to prepare for the workout like others prospects.  He still had the highest RAS score for corners and was 9.67 for a safety. The kid is an absolute playmaker. 

[smittywerb]

13 hours ago, Solid84 said:

He may not be worth the 15th overall, but he could be a trade back target.

For the first 2 picks (without trading) I’d be happy with:

 

1st: Mitchell/Arnold/Turner

2nd:  Leggette

 

or 

 

1st:  Bowers/BTJ

2nd: Dejean

 

I feel like if we walk away from this draft without drafting 2 impact players in the first two rounds, we’re done lol.  Our needs and the talent in this draft are in alignment. 

[stitches]

On 3/28/2024 at 2:49 PM, stitches said:

Here are some Matt Harmon "Reception Perception" charts for the top receivers:

 

 

 

And here's the best of them... look at this one for Rome:

 

 

According to Harmon Odunze is the first receiver he's ever charted that has completely green route tree everywhere. He runs every route and he get gets open on every single route.

 

 

BTW MHJ's chart is not as impressive, but he mentions he was doubled the most out of any receiver in this draft class and his chart is still really really good. 

 

 

Some new "Reception Perception" charts posted... 

Brian Thomas Jr:

 

Ladd McConkey:

 

 

 

Adonai Mitchell:

 

Ricky Pearsall:

 

[MikeCurtis]

15 hours ago, Solid84 said:

He may not be worth the 15th overall, but he could be a trade back target.

Agreed

 

He is an "Aw shucks" midwestern kid, that I think appeals to Ballard

 

Great work ethic, great performance in 2022 with 5 INTS

 

In interviews, he doesnt want to have attention on him...... classy kid

 

He is also 6' 1" and 207 lbs and can level the WR or RB in front of him 

 

He hits like a LB

 

IF we go CB, he is my first choice

 

He also can be a star FS for us as well, if we wanted

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Solid84]

18 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Agreed

 

He is an "Aw shucks" midwestern kid, that I think appeals to Ballard

 

Great work ethic, great performance in 2022 with 5 INTS

 

In interviews, he doesnt want to have attention on him...... classy kid

 

He is also 6' 1" and 207 lbs and can level the WR or RB in front of him 

 

He hits like a LB

 

IF we go CB, he is my first choice

 

He also can be a star FS for us as well, if we wanted

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd rather have him at FS. If we could somehow get him with our 2nd pick that would be awesome.

[MikeCurtis]

1 minute ago, Solid84 said:

I'd rather have him at FS. If we could somehow get him with our 2nd pick that would be awesome.

I think we would have to trade back into the first to get him. (With our 2nd pick)

 

I dont see the Colts giving up a first round next year to get back into the first

 

I could see a trade back in round 1 to the 20s, but would grab AD Mitchell before I would take DeJean

 

 

This will be an interesting draft

 

We need to get a separation type WR

We need to get a FS (FA probably)

We need to add to the DL room

We need to add to the OL room

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

Agreed

 

He is an "Aw shucks" midwestern kid, that I think appeals to Ballard

 

Great work ethic, great performance in 2022 with 5 INTS

 

In interviews, he doesnt want to have attention on him...... classy kid

 

He is also 6' 1" and 207 lbs and can level the WR or RB in front of him 

 

He hits like a LB

 

IF we go CB, he is my first choice

 

He also can be a star FS for us as well, if we wanted

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agree.  The kid is a playmaker.  I think he has the football instincts like Leonard had.  I think he’s our pick at 15.  Then WR in the 2nd and OL in the 3rd.

[MikeCurtis]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Agree.  The kid is a playmaker.  I think he has the football instincts like Leonard had.  I think he’s our pick at 15.  Then WR in the 2nd and OL in the 3rd.

He might be

 

I think we need a stud WR or DE more, but I would be happy with the pick of Cooper Dejean

 

[richard pallo]

10 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

He might be

 

I think we need a stud WR or DE more, but I would be happy with the pick of Cooper Dejean

 

I could see Ballard choosing a DE over a WR at 15.  Somehow I can’t see him pushing Pierce to the side without giving him an opportunity to play with AR for at least the majority of the season.  One of the premier ER prospects is a different story.  I can see him going there.  I want our 1st pick to start and fill an immediate need.  That’s why I think CB will be the pick.

[Solid84]

22 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

He might be

 

I think we need a stud WR or DE more, but I would be happy with the pick of Cooper Dejean

 

I like guys like DeJean and Mitchell, but I think drafting a CB at 15 will be a waste in this scheme with this DC. I think you COULD make an argument for the top FS if this wasn't such a terrible safety draft, but I think the pick is better spent on DL or WR. Purely my opinion of course.

[krunk]

18 hours ago, Solid84 said:

He may not be worth the 15th overall, but he could be a trade back target.

Won't lie I like him as an athlete. I'm still figuring whether corner or safety is best for him. But I will say he is high IQ player with elite diagnosis skills. Definitely knows what's going on out there.

[Solid84]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

Won't lie I like him as an athlete. I'm still figuring whether corner or safety is best for him. But I will say he is high IQ player with elite diagnosis skills. Definitely knows what's going on out there.

Don't get me wrong - I like him too - and if I HAD to take a DB at 15 it would probably be him, because he can play both FS and CB.

 

Edit: I just don't like CB at 15.

[DougDew]

PFF's latest Top 150 player ranking, 4/1/24, has DeJean ranked #8.  Q Mitchell is #10.

 

XLeggette #63.  XWorthy #68.