NFL.com ranks Kenny Moore….

[NewColtsFan]

…. as the top slot corner in football.   Glad to see some have noticed just how good KM is this year.   
 

Many here wanted Moore traded after last years very disappointing season.    Who will own that now?  

[Solid84]

26 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

…. as the top slot corner in football.   Glad to see some have noticed just how good KM is this year.   
 

Many here wanted Moore traded after last years very disappointing season.    Who will own that now?  

To be fair, many wanted him traded after last season (including me), because he wanted to be paid like an outside corner when he couldn’t even play like a slot corner. 

[csmopar]

44 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

…. as the top slot corner in football.   Glad to see some have noticed just how good KM is this year.   
 

Many here wanted Moore traded after last years very disappointing season.    Who will own that now?  

But but but Ballard sucks

[richard pallo]

48 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

…. as the top slot corner in football.   Glad to see some have noticed just how good KM is this year.   
 

Many here wanted Moore traded after last years very disappointing season.    Who will own that now?  

If Ballard listened to fans on this board we would have traded Moore, Kelly and moved Smith to RG.  Fortunately he knows better.

[NewColtsFan]

26 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

To be fair, many wanted him traded after last season (including me), because he wanted to be paid like an outside corner when he couldn’t even play like a slot corner. 

If you watch Kenny, there are a number of downs where he IS an outside corner.   When the team plays a straight 4-3 defense, Moore doesn’t come off the field,  he’s the other outside corner.   So the Colts get their money’s worth from KM.  
 

He plays the slot when the D is a 4-2-5 or a 4-1-6 or a 4-0-7.    But Moore, for the most part, doesn’t leave the field.   I get that KM’s attitude SUCKED last year.  To his credit, he admitted that when he showed up this season.   He’s a new man, both in playing and attitude and the Colts are benefitting from not trading or cutting him. 

[Yoshinator]

11 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

If Ballard listened to fans on this board we would have traded Moore, Kelly and moved Smith to RG.  Fortunately he knows better.

I always have to say this though whenever it's brought up. Ballard isn't competing against people on fan forums as GMs of the other 31 NFL teams, he's competing with 31 other professional GMs (in most cases they are as good or better than him). There are people on this forum that will say Ballard knows better than the "armchair GMs". So what. He should. He needs to be better than the ACTUAL GM's that are in charge of the other teams. The only place where he can claim that to a degree is the draft.

 

As for Kenny Moore. He's turned it around and done a great job. However, the secondary is still bad right now. We are hoping JuJu is good and we'll need to draft another CB in the first few rounds next year in the draft. 

[Solid84]

22 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

If you watch Kenny, there are a number of downs where he IS an outside corner.   When the team plays a straight 4-3 defense, Moore doesn’t come off the field,  he’s the other outside corner.   So the Colts get their money’s worth from KM.  
 

He plays the slot when the D is a 4-2-5 or a 4-1-6 or a 4-0-7.    But Moore, for the most part, doesn’t leave the field.   I get that KM’s attitude SUCKED last year.  To his credit, he admitted that when he showed up this season.   He’s a new man, both in playing and attitude and the Colts are benefitting from not trading or cutting him. 

Moore has played 708 total defensive snaps this year:

At slot: 442

At outside: 121

At Dline/box/free safety: 145

 

He’s a slot corner. Sure he moves around a little, but he’s a slot corner.

I apprecaite he came back this offseason with a different mind-set, but if he starts crying about wanting outside corner money again this offseason I’ll once again be advocating for trading him. 

[richard pallo]

39 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Moore has played 708 total defensive snaps this year:

At slot: 442

At outside: 121

At Dline/box/free safety: 145

 

He’s a slot corner. Sure he moves around a little, but he’s a slot corner.

I apprecaite he came back this offseason with a different mind-set, but if he starts crying about wanting outside corner money again this offseason I’ll once again be advocating for trading him. 

Back to the money again lol.  That’s between him and Ballard to work it out.  Whatever transpires I’m good with.  As you said that’s what Ballard gets paid to do.  It’s out of our hands.  Certainly not going to get worked up about it one way or the other.  I think he knows how to manage a roster better than any of us fans.

[AKB]

27 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Moore has played 708 total defensive snaps this year:

At slot: 442

At outside: 121

At Dline/box/free safety: 145

 

He’s a slot corner. Sure he moves around a little, but he’s a slot corner.

I apprecaite he came back this offseason with a different mind-set, but if he starts crying about wanting outside corner money again this offseason I’ll once again be advocating for trading him. 

 

5 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Back to the money again lol.  That’s between him and Ballard to work it out.  Whatever transpires I’m good with.  As you said that’s what Ballard gets paid to do.  It’s out of our hands.  Certainly not going to get worked up about it one way or the other.  I think he knows how to manage a roster better than any of us fans.

yeah, and he chose not to give him more money last time. 

 

yeah kenny is playing great in the slot, but should still be paid as a slot corner. 

[Solid84]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Back to the money again lol.  That’s between him and Ballard to work it out.  Whatever transpires I’m good with.  As you said that’s what Ballard gets paid to do.  It’s out of our hands.  Certainly not going to get worked up about it one way or the other.  I think he knows how to manage a roster better than any of us fans.

Yes back to the money, because that’s the full story?

 

NCF wanted to call people out based on a half-truth. Then he defended Moore by insinuating Moore actually played a lot of outside corner. 
 

Look, no Colts fan is unhappy Moore is playing great this season. But, he’s a slot corner and will get payed as such. 

[AKB]

5 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Yes back to the money, because that’s the full story?

 

NCF wanted to call people out based on a half-truth. Then he defended Moore by insinuating Moore actually played a lot of outside corner. 
 

Look, no Colts fan is unhappy Moore is playing great this season. But, he’s a slot corner and will get payed as such. 

arguing he plays a lot of outside corners because we play in a 4-3 doesn't even make sense. we are in nickel most of the time. 

 

it's more an indictment that we don't have 2 true bonified outside corners 

 

 

[GoColts8818]

Kenny Moore is my favorite Colt and I stuck by him when others have been calling for him to be gone.  I am glad he’s turned his play around and I have no problem paying him because he’s one of two guys on defense you can count on week in and week out.  The other is Buckner.  I’d add Grover as well when he gets back.  
 

Personally I don’t get too worked up about if he gets paid as a slot corner or an outside corner or whatever because I don’t have to manage the cap.  Ballard thinks these things through and doesn’t just blindly hand players bags or money.  Frankly, Ballard has been a master at working the cap since he’s been here.  He does a great job structuring contracts so players get their money, it doesn’t break the cap, and often leaves the team with friendly outs if needed at some point over the life of the contract.  
 

Kenny Moore is a good player and good players cost money.  As long as Ballard keeps managing the cap well as a whole I don’t think it’s major deal how much any player makes.  I know others will disagree with me and that’s fine.  It’s just my two cents not meant to change anyone’s mind.

[jvan1973]

Why fans worry about what players make is beyond me.   It's usually a manipulation of the actual number anyway.   Even with Nelson, Leonard and JTs contract,  they can sign anyone they want.  Some just can't be happy when a whipping boy succeeds.   Kelly and Moore were whipping boys for many last year.   Now it's Leonard.   Just root for success and let the bean counters worry about the cap

[stitches]

Kenny has been playing some great football this year. Glad to see him return to form 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 hours ago, richard pallo said:

If Ballard listened to fans on this board we would have traded Moore, Kelly and moved Smith to RG.  Fortunately he knows better.

We would have traded Taylor for a 4th round pick too - some in here think they know but in reality don't have a clue on how to run a team. By the way for what it is worth, I never wanted Moore traded either, just like with Taylor. Ballard's main problem has been not landing a franchise QB (he had Luck then Luck retired), hopefully he has now landed one with AR. We will find out next season. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I always have to say this though whenever it's brought up. Ballard isn't competing against people on fan forums as GMs of the other 31 NFL teams, he's competing with 31 other professional GMs (in most cases they are as good or better than him). There are people on this forum that will say Ballard knows better than the "armchair GMs". So what. He should. He needs to be better than the ACTUAL GM's that are in charge of the other teams. The only place where he can claim that to a degree is the draft.

 

As for Kenny Moore. He's turned it around and done a great job. However, the secondary is still bad right now. We are hoping JuJu is good and we'll need to draft another CB in the first few rounds next year in the draft. 

If you put Andrew Luck (2012-2014 Luck) in his prime on this team Ballard has built now, we win 11 or 12 games every year. It is about the QB. Had Luck not retired, Ballard would be a God here in Indy and probably ranked by most a top 5 GM out there, like Polian was with Peyton. 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If you put Andrew Luck (2012-2014 Luck) in his prime on this team Ballard has built now, we win 11 or 12 games every year. It is about the QB. Had Luck not retired, Ballard would be a God here in Indy and probably ranked by most a top 5 GM out there, like Polian was with Peyton. 

I agree 100%. The way Ballard has constructed this roster is as if we have a franchise QB around it. Unfortunately, when Luck retired, Ballard took the strategy of signing or trading for Veteran QBs and building the roster the same as if the veteran QBs would be close to Luck in performance.

 

It didn't happen, and the retirement of Luck and Richardson's injury will cost us 5 years as fans and Ballard as a GM. It works in theory, but you still have to execute it. Due to bad luck and injuries and some stubbornness from Ballard and Reich, it didn't work out. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I agree 100%. The way Ballard has constructed this roster is as if we have a franchise QB around it. Unfortunately, when Luck retired, Ballard took the strategy of signing or trading for Veteran QBs and building the roster the same as if the veteran QBs would be close to Luck in performance.

 

It didn't happen, and the retirement of Luck and Richardson's injury will cost us 5 years as fans and Ballard as a GM. It works in theory, but you still have to execute it. Due to bad luck and injuries and some stubbornness from Ballard and Reich, it didn't work out. 

Next year is a huge year because AR is our future and that is who Ballard picked with chips all in. We all can't really use the Luck excuse anymore starting next year. AR is Ballard's QB. It was either him or Levis, I would have took AR like Ballard did so I guess as a fan I am signing off on that too. I may be wrong but hope I am right. There was no chance we could have got Stroud, Panthers had way more to offer than we did to move up and the Texans weren't budging at #2. So, we can't blame Ballard for that.

 

Regarding the main topic, I am so glad we didn't do anything in panic mode to get rid of Moore. I wanted to keep him. So far so good 

[Yoshinator]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Next year is a huge year because AR is our future and that is who Ballard picked with chips all in. We all can't really use the Luck excuse anymore starting next year. AR is Ballard's QB. It was either him or Levis, I would have took AR like Ballard did so I guess as a fan I am signing off on that too. I may be wrong but hope I am right. There was no chance we could have got Stroud, Panthers had way more to offer than we did to move up and the Texans weren't budging at #2. So, we can't blame Ballard for that.

 

Regarding the main topic, I am so glad we didn't do anything in panic mode to get rid of Moore. I wanted to keep him. So far so good 

We could have traded up to #1 potentially (as the package from 4 to 1 is less than 9 to 1), but I remember Ballard saying that Richardson was the no1 ranked player on the Colts board. So, in reality, the only way we get Stroud is if the Texans take Richardson at #2, and that didn't happen. 

 

I'm glad we didn't get rid of Moore either. Hoping we re-sign him to a multi-year deal. That was a special game he had Vs the Panthers. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

We could have traded up to #1 potentially (as the package from 4 to 1 is less than 9 to 1), but I remember Ballard saying that Richardson was the no1 ranked player on the Colts board. So, in reality, the only way we get Stroud is if the Texans take Richardson at #2, and that didn't happen. 

 

I'm glad we didn't get rid of Moore either. Hoping we re-sign him to a multi-year deal. That was a special game he had Vs the Panthers. 

I think as diehard fans, sometimes fans do get it right where GM's get it wrong, I will admit that, but the majority of the time GM's get it right more. They just have more resources than we do and they interview these guys, scout these guys for a living, etc.. 

[Yoshinator]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think as diehard fans, sometimes fans do get it right where GM's get it wrong, I will admit that, but the majority of the time GM's get it right more. They just have more resources than we do and they interview these guys, scout these guys for a living, etc.. 

I agree. I wish we could do an experiment where an average joe could be given all the info that a GM has access too. Whether it be FA, the Draft, or other things, and have them both make decisions side-by-side. Then come back 3 years later and see who worked out for what teams. It wouldn't be perfect as the other players would be in different situations on other teams, but it would be an interesting way to compare how smart an average joe would be if they had the info a real life GM did.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

I agree. I wish we could do an experiment where an average joe could be given all the info that a GM has access too. Whether it be FA, the Draft, or other things, and have them both make decisions side-by-side. Then come back 3 years later and see who worked out for what teams. It wouldn't be perfect as the other players would be in different situations on other teams, but it would be an interesting way to compare how smart an average joe would be if they had the info a real life GM did.

That would be fun. It would be a lot of work but if you love football, get the Coffee and Donuts ready and get ready for sleepless nights. To me I would love it, if I was winning  

[Yoshinator]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That would be fun. It would be a lot of work but if you love football, get the Coffee and Donuts ready and get ready for sleepless nights. To me I would love it, if I was winning  

Yep. We could have the cap manager help the average joe with the FA signings to stay within the cap. Scouts could give their intake, and whomever was playing GM could make a decision. Let them do their fantasy FA and fantasy draft alongside Ballard doing it for real and compare it down the line. Maybe get the best Franchise Mode Madden players in the world (best fan of every team) and try it out. 

 

Obviously, Ballard knows more than any of us, but would he still have a huge edge over us if we knew everything he did and it purely came down to the decision-making with the same information? That's the million-dollar question to tell us how qualified we could be if we only had the opportunity to be in Ballards shoes. 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yep. We could have the cap manager help the average joe with the FA signings to stay within the cap. Scouts could give their intake, and whomever was playing GM could make a decision. Let them do their fantasy FA and fantasy draft alongside Ballard doing it for real and compare it down the line. Maybe get the best Franchise Mode Madden players in the world (best fan of every team) and try it out. 

 

Obviously, Ballard knows more than any of us, but would he still have a huge edge over us if we knew everything he did and it purely came down to the decision-making with the same information? That's the million-dollar to tell us how qualified we could be if we only had the opportunity to be in Ballards shoes. 

Problem with premise is not only will it ever happen but also there's no way that can be done.

 

For just a simple example, Would you like to have Steichen spend and waste 2X of his time from January until April with your average Joe on what he sees as weakness in the roster, and what talent his position coaches have found to be liking in FA and Draft, what changes he'd like to make in the scheme or talent, etc.,

 

That'd be like wasting your franchise' resources, if you're an NFL owner.

 

But...

 

Fortunately, you can have your answer much straightforward.. Some of the NFL GMs are just like average Joe, with all the information, exactly just as you'd like to orchestrate. And, the answer is, most of them wouldn't do any good. 

 

Look around the list of NFL GMs and their competence, you can easily find few too many Average Joe's. 

[Yoshinator]

9 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Problem with premise is not only will it ever happen but also there's no way that can be done.

 

For just a simple example, Would you like to have Steichen spend and waste 2X of his time from January until April with your average Joe on what he sees as weakness in the roster, and what talent his position coaches have found to be liking in FA and Draft, what changes he'd like to make in the scheme or talent, etc.,

 

That'd be like wasting your franchise' resources, if you're an NFL owner.

 

But...

 

Fortunately, you can have your answer much straightforward.. Some of the NFL GMs are just like average Joe, with all the information, exactly just as you'd like to orchestrate. And, the answer is, most of them wouldn't do any good. 

 

Look around the list of NFL GMs and their competence, you can easily find few too many Average Joe's. 

I agree with this. I think that it's closer than people will give it credit for. One of those things where I'd like to see someone "break the stigma" that armchair GMs are dumb and the reality of it is that they are devoid of the information that the GMs have access too. Equal the playing field and see who would build a better team. It's a pipe dream, but I can wonder.

 

That's the problem. Not enough time to teach someone everything in real time. 

[smittywerb]

Yeah, Moore is definitely earning his check this year.  Dude has balled out.  What I love about him is he tackles like a linebacker but he’s only 5’8”.  Wish he had some more speed on him (which is what’s probably preventing him from being an outside corner) but he makes up for it in IQ and technique

[John Hammonds]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

…. as the top slot corner in football.   Glad to see some have noticed just how good KM is this year.   
 

Many here wanted Moore traded after last years very disappointing season.    Who will own that now?  

*raises hand*

Yup, I was one of those who completely questioned whether or not he could play in this defense.  You know, like Leonard is today.  Go figure.  Perhaps Leonard might make a similar turnaround next year.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

*raises hand*

Yup, I was one of those who completely questioned whether or not he could play in this defense.  You know, like Leonard is today.  Go figure.  Perhaps Leonard might make a similar turnaround next year.

Thanks, John!    You’re a stand-up guy!!   
 

I appreciate and respect anyone who comes forward…..           

[Dingus McGirt]

14 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

*raises hand*

Yup, I was one of those who completely questioned whether or not he could play in this defense.  You know, like Leonard is today.  Go figure.  Perhaps Leonard might make a similar turnaround next year.

We would love that, but, Leonard’s issues are physical.  I don’t think he will overcome them.

[colts89]

On 11/16/2023 at 3:45 PM, NewColtsFan said:

…. as the top slot corner in football.   Glad to see some have noticed just how good KM is this year.   
 

Many here wanted Moore traded after last years very disappointing season.    Who will own that now?  

I did because he was horrible last year and an obvious weak spot in an otherwise very strong Defense. Glad to see him step up this year. Hope to see the same from several other Colts players that are not performing ATM.

[OLD FAN MAN]

On 11/16/2023 at 7:30 PM, csmopar said:

But but but Ballard sucks

I agree the colts losing record under ballard says it all

[csmopar]

3 hours ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

I agree the colts losing record under ballard says it all

[DougDew]

On 11/16/2023 at 9:16 PM, Solid84 said:

Yes back to the money, because that’s the full story?

 

NCF wanted to call people out based on a half-truth. Then he defended Moore by insinuating Moore actually played a lot of outside corner. 
 

Look, no Colts fan is unhappy Moore is playing great this season. But, he’s a slot corner and will get payed as such. 

Has that ever happened before?  LOL.

 

Do the individual player rankings take into account the quality of QBs played?  I'd wager these rankings are based on pretty superficial looks, like stats, but I don't know..   

 

 Not paying KM saves outside corner money for our outside corners (assuming we get some).  That's an important element to this entire discussion.

[DougDew]

On 11/17/2023 at 3:00 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We would have traded Taylor for a 4th round pick too - some in here think they know but in reality don't have a clue on how to run a team. By the way for what it is worth, I never wanted Moore traded either, just like with Taylor. Ballard's main problem has been not landing a franchise QB (he had Luck then Luck retired), hopefully he has now landed one with AR. We will find out next season. 

When the players change their minds about wanting to play for the Colts or settle for the money the Colts want to pay them, its a bit of a cheap strawman argument to criticize folks wanting to trade JT or KM at a time the players were reportedly saying they would not.  Everybody makes their comments based upon the unknown facts of what the players are actually thinking.  You have to know that when you read their comments.

 

BTW, other than JT getting more carries now that reflect his starter status, has he really done anything that Moss couldn't have done? 

[RollerColt]

13 minutes ago, DougDew said:

When the players change their minds about wanting to play for the Colts or settle for the money the Colts want to pay them, its a bit of a cheap strawman argument to criticize them wanting to trade JT or KM at a time the players were reportedly saying they would not.  Everybody makes their comments based upon the unknown facts of what the players are actually thinking.  You have to know that when you read their comments.

 

BTW, other than JT getting more carries now that reflect his starter status, has he really done anything that Moss couldn't have done? 

This season? So far no. 
 

Before this season, I’d say yes. 

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Has that ever happened before?  LOL.

 

Do the individual player rankings take into account the quality of QBs played?  I'd wager these rankings are based on pretty superficial looks, like stats, but I don't know..   

 

 Not paying KM saves outside corner money for our outside corners (assuming we get some).  That's an important element to this entire discussion.

Oh we had a whole back and forth about it him and I. Got deleted thankfully. 
 

I’m not sure. Reporter’s may just use their gut feeling, but some use Next Gen Stats which is NFL’s equivalent of PFF. 
 

Cap management is a key component of teambuilding. It’s also severely underrated. 

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

BTW, other than JT getting more carries now that reflect his starter status, has he really done anything that Moss couldn't have done? 

I expected more from JT to be honest, especially with the money he got paid. But, this season is a weird one and Minshew just isn’t good enough to force opposing defenses to focus on the passing game. That limits our RBs a lot and it’s probably a good enough reason to cut JT some slack. 
 

Didn’t want to make it about JT.

Go Kenny!

[BlackTiger]

On 11/16/2023 at 9:16 PM, Solid84 said:

But, he’s a slot corner and will get payed as such. 

He plays a lot of different roles, the difference between an outside corner's contract and one who plays a little bit of everything isnt worth worrying about like you are now.  

 

He will get paid like the versatile player he is, not just a random slot cb who only plays that.

[Mitch Connors]

On 11/17/2023 at 3:27 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If you put Andrew Luck (2012-2014 Luck) in his prime on this team Ballard has built now, we win 11 or 12 games every year. It is about the QB. Had Luck not retired, Ballard would be a God here in Indy and probably ranked by most a top 5 GM out there, like Polian was with Peyton. 

 

Which team would be terrible with Andrew Luck as their starting QB in his prime? Saying Ballard would be great with Luck in his prime isn't saying anything at all about Ballard's ability to build a team, it's saying his results are solely dependent on an all-world QB like Luck. 

 

John Schneider, Brad Holmes, and John Lynch are putting up results without all-world QB's right now whereas Ballard is not. At some point, the commentary on Ballard has got to stop being excuses and start being results but some refuse to do that because his results, frankly, are poor. 

[Solid84]

49 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

He plays a lot of different roles, the difference between an outside corner's contract and one who plays a little bit of everything isnt worth worrying about like you are now.  

 

He will get paid like the versatile player he is, not just a random slot cb who only plays that.

I disagree.