Irsay says league admits they messed up

[bluebombers87]

I think there are other options. Get rid of spot fouls for PI. Reduce the number of automatic first downs penalties in favor of yardage and replay the down.
 

Bring back challenges for penalties only this time, the head official is being recorded and states their justification. This is then used by an independent panel to verify afterwards. What consequences for still making a bad call after the review can now be defended and argued by both sides.

 

This solution is more cost effective than going all refs full time.

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I know nothing about the refs' CBA, so I don't know what the NFL can actually do there. But a lot of these guys have solid careers outside of reffing, they make a few hundred thousand as lawyers, bankers, whatever... and then they make a couple hundred thousand (or more) as NFL refs. So I'm not surprised that someone who views reffing as a side gig wouldn't want to give up their actual career.

 

And I think those guys should be phased out, however that needs to happen. The other major sports have full time refs, and they play way more games, so the logistics are workable. 

They have full time refs umps because they play 162 and 82 games a year, 2-6 games a week.  It’s obvious why they are full time.

 

And many NBA, MLB, and NHL refs blow many calls.

 

I just don’t think what is being proposed here is necessarily going to help.  I have guy I know  from my HS who is an NFL ref.  He’s a lawyer.   He went through years of HS and many levels of college before getting to the NFL.  They are all very experienced.  They pay their dues over a long time to get to that level.  
 

I am for discipline for bad officials. That could be feasible IMO.  Have some sort of impeachment process lol.  If the Orgs black ball a guy at like a 2/3s majority after a season can him.

 

one thing I think could possibly be helpful if they were full time would be to make them ref a bunch of HS, CFB games.  Real time games they have to work together on.  It wouldn,t be that hard I don’t think.  Working as a team takes practice and at most NFL crews practice 20 times a year if they make the SB.  There might be problems with that but I just don’t think film study for 37 hrs if a 40 hr week with 3 during the game is going to help much.  Watching on a screen is nothing like real time judging of the Worlds greatest fast twitch athletes.

[Nickster]

14 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

I think there are other options. Get rid of spot fouls for PI. Reduce the number of automatic first downs penalties in favor of yardage and replay the down.
 

Bring back challenges for penalties only this time, the head official is being recorded and states their justification. This is then used by an independent panel to verify afterwards. What consequences for still making a bad call after the review can now be defended and argued by both sides.

 

This solution is more cost effective than going all refs full time.

I just wish they’d do like the MLB and soccer.  The central office notifies the official when it’s time to review a call.  No challenges and all that crapola.  It seems to work really well in baseball and soccer.  Soccer is a lot like football in that fouls and penalties are all very subjective.  But you let OZ ie the man behind the curtain take care of it and that is that.

 

This would eliminate egregious errors like Sundays Pi.  It’s doable and easy.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

They have full time refs umps because they play 162 and 82 games a year, 2-6 games a week.  It’s obvious why they are full time.

 

And many NBA, MLB, and NHL refs blow many calls.

 

I just don’t think what is being proposed here is necessarily going to help.  I have guy I know  from my HS who is an NFL ref.  He’s a lawyer.   He went through years of HS and many levels of college before getting to the NFL.  They are all very experienced.  They pay their dues over a long time to get to that level.  
 

I am for discipline for bad officials. That could be feasible IMO.  Have some sort of impeachment process lol.  If the Orgs black ball a guy at like a 2/3s majority after a season can him.

 

one thing I think could possibly be helpful if they were full time would be to make them ref a bunch of HS, CFB games.  Real time games they have to work together on.  It wouldn,t be that hard I don’t think.  Working as a team takes practice and at most NFL crews practice 20 times a year if they make the SB.  There might be problems with that but I just don’t think film study for 37 hrs if a 40 hr week with 3 during the game is going to help much.  Watching on a screen is nothing like real time judging of the Worlds greatest fast twitch athletes.

 

I'm obviously not suggesting they need to work 40 hour work weeks. The point is they should be involved in NFL officiating year round, not just for four months during the season.

 

My point about the other leagues was more about money. It's feasible to employ full time refs in a pro league, as every other league demonstrates. And the NFL makes more money than all of them.

 

And yeah, just making a change to full time refs doesn't immediately improve the quality of the officiating. The idea is that they should get more training and development, and improve in their ability to call live games. I think it's obvious that this would lead to more skilled refs, over time. I understand if you see it differently.

[Nickster]

Just now, Superman said:

And yeah, just making a change to full time refs doesn't immediately improve the quality of the officiating. The idea is that they should get more training and development, and improve in their ability to call live games. I think it's obvious that this would lead to more skilled refs, over time. I understand if you see it differently.

IDK maybe.  Training maybe.  Do you think the NFL has worse refs than the NBA NHL or MLB?  I don’t necessarily.

 

if so what makes you think that.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

IDK maybe.  Training maybe.  Do you think the NFL has worse refs than the NBA NHL or MLB?  I don’t necessarily.

 

if so what makes you think that.

 

No I don't, not at all. I think NBA can be harder to officiate in a lot of ways, but I don't think NBA refs are better than NFL refs. I think NFL refs are generally pretty good, despite a persistent narrative to the contrary. But it only takes one bad play to undermine their standing.

 

I also don't think NBA refs spend extra time training and improving skills and building chemistry with one another. 

[indyagent17]

Why shouldn’t all officials go through a camp. Getting in shape and studying film of bad calls from the prior year to see where to improve. If an official has a certain number of bad calls he is suspended for that season and he has to go through requalification to be able to return. This biggest focus of camp is only call penalties when it’s obvious. During the season all officials that get a poor grade should be put on warning. The second bad score they are “benched” for a certain amount of game before they can return during that “benched” time they sit in meetings and see how the better scoring officials call the game. Most importantly be mindful not to throw flags in the last two minutes of a game.

A lot of people I know were very concerned when the NFL joined up with DraftKings as a sponsor, definitely leaves the door open for controversy and I think it was a horrible idea. I used DraftKings, but they should never be associated nor any betting site with professional sport.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chrisfarley]

now that they've admitted they potentially screwed us out of the playoffs, we can breathe easy.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

I have watched almost every Colts games since 1984 and since Sunday I was trying to think when we got cheated worse. I can't, that is how bad Sunday was. We have had games against the Steelers and Pats that have had questionable Reffing, but I have never encountered anything like I witnessed Sunday at the end of that game. 

 

Imagine had that been a playoff game? That is a scary thought.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I think keep the rules the same except PI should be reviewable in the last 2 minutes, each team gets 1 challenge on a PI call. That won't slow down the game and if the call is obviously wrong, it won't screw the other team out of a win.

 

Had the rule I just suggested been implemented. The Saints would have been in the SB in 2018 and we would have won Sunday.

[NewColtsFan]

52 minutes ago, chrisfarley said:

now that they've admitted they potentially screwed us out of the playoffs, we can breathe easy.  

Honestly, I think we’ll all be able to breathe easier once we all know the NFL is not going to dock the Colts with a kiss of draft picks over Irsay going public with his talking to the league.    
 

If it’s only a fine to Irsay or the team — that’s fine.   But we don’t want the Colts to lose any draft picks.   I won’t rest easily until we know what the NFL does to the team — if anything. 

[Hawkeyecolt]

I think the coaches should be able to use their limited challenges on any play they want.   

[jemack]

6 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have watched almost every Colts games since 1984 and since Sunday I was trying to think when we got cheated worse. I can't, that is how bad Sunday was. We have had games against the Steelers and Pats that have had questionable Reffing, but I have never encountered anything like I witnessed Sunday at the end of that game. 

 

Imagine had that been a playoff game? That is a scary thought.

As far as back to back bogus calls inside of 2 mins left that impacted the outcome of a game? In my 50 yrs of watching the Colts l've seen some bad officiating. But l've never seen anything like this.

There's some bad officiating from time to time. And 99.9% of the time the team getting screwed at least has time to overcome those calls. The officials last Sunday highjacked the game in the final 2 mins in favor of Cleveland. And every Honest owner needs to say enough.

[bluebombers87]

5 minutes ago, jemack said:

As far as back to back bogus calls inside of 2 mins left that impacted the outcome of a game? In my 50 yrs of watching the Colts l've seen some bad officiating. But l've never seen anything like this.

There's some bad officiating from time to time. And 99.9% of the time the team getting screwed at least has time to overcome those calls. The officials last Sunday highjacked the game in the final 2 mins in favor of Cleveland. And every Honest owner needs to say enough.

It would not surprise me at all of the other owners agree with Irsay and are letting him be the mouthpiece rather than putting them all on the line for potential discipline. Remember, the owners determine a lot in terms of how the league is run.

Seeing an owner like Irsay who does hold a decent bit of sway come out and make these comments shows me that there may be some behind the scenes movements we aren’t privy to.

[jemack]

1 minute ago, bluebombers87 said:

It would not surprise me at all of the other owners agree with Irsay and are letting him be the mouthpiece rather than putting them all on the line for potential discipline. Remember, the owners determine a lot in terms of how the league is run.

Seeing an owner like Irsay who does hold a decent bit of sway come out and make these comments shows me that there may be some behind the scenes movements we aren’t privy to.

The NFLs next move will be ordering the Networks to avoid replays on penalties. 😆 

[bluebombers87]

9 minutes ago, jemack said:

The NFLs next move will be ordering the Networks to avoid replays on penalties. 😆 

I would hate for it to get to that point but I imagine that would also be a point of contention for the owners and the fans. Networks would be in a tough spot there.

[Yoshinator]

I feel Irsay speaking out was a move that Goodell asked Irsay to do to satisfy NFL fanbases to give the "illusion" that an owner is upset about what happened with the bad officiating. Irsay is an owner that is known for wanting to win, however, he would never overstep his bounds and go against authority. 

 

I'm going to guess this stops when the players themselves start accusing the NFL of collusion, someone important retires because they miss the playoffs or SB because of a bad decision, or something happens where a fan catches a moment where the refs or coaches are pre-planning the game ahead of time in some way in a conversation that's recorded on a cell phone and plastered all over twitter.

 

I don't feel this can last much longer.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, jemack said:

As far as back to back bogus calls inside of 2 mins left that impacted the outcome of a game? In my 50 yrs of watching the Colts l've seen some bad officiating. But l've never seen anything like this.

There's some bad officiating from time to time. And 99.9% of the time the team getting screwed at least has time to overcome those calls. The officials last Sunday highjacked the game in the final 2 mins in favor of Cleveland. And every Honest owner needs to say enough.

Yep. I had never seen anything like it regarding the Colts, as far as 2 bad calls in the final minute that obviously cost us the game. I have seen some games where the REFS were bad but bad calls happen a lot, but Sunday was embarrassing. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

29 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I feel Irsay speaking out was a move that Goodell asked Irsay to do to satisfy NFL fanbases to give the "illusion" that an owner is upset about what happened with the bad officiating. Irsay is an owner that is known for wanting to win, however, he would never overstep his bounds and go against authority. 

 

I'm going to guess this stops when the players themselves start accusing the NFL of collusion, someone important retires because they miss the playoffs or SB because of a bad decision, or something happens where a fan catches a moment where the refs or coaches are pre-planning the game ahead of time in some way in a conversation that's recorded on a cell phone and plastered all over twitter.

 

I don't feel this can last much longer.

I am still in shock someone like Drew Brees hasn't said anything more about the 2018 NFC Title Game. He usually is very outspoken. He even went on record saying he would never kneel for the flag. That cost the Saints a possible SB ring which would have put Brees in that elite category regarding SB winners with 2 or more.

[dw49]

3 hours ago, jemack said:

As far as back to back bogus calls inside of 2 mins left that impacted the outcome of a game? In my 50 yrs of watching the Colts l've seen some bad officiating. But l've never seen anything like this.

There's some bad officiating from time to time. And 99.9% of the time the team getting screwed at least has time to overcome those calls. The officials last Sunday highjacked the game in the final 2 mins in favor of Cleveland. And every Honest owner needs to say enough.

 

I've been watching for 60 years but in all fairness , didn't see many games until the NFL package came out. This was bad indeed and no one mentioned the ridiculous holding call on Fries that negated a big gain and led to the blocked 60 yard attempt. This was bad as you say but was it as bad as the Matte playoff loss vs Green Bay in the late 60's. I was watching and could plainly see that Chandlers last minute FG to tie the game was wide right.

[indyagent17]

20 hours ago, bluebombers87 said:

I think there are other options. Get rid of spot fouls for PI. Reduce the number of automatic first downs penalties in favor of yardage and replay the down.
 

Bring back challenges for penalties only this time, the head official is being recorded and states their justification. This is then used by an independent panel to verify afterwards. What consequences for still making a bad call after the review can now be defended and argued by both sides.

 

This solution is more cost effective than going all refs full time.

I have been saying for years that the NFL should adopt the college rule on PI. I am sick on teams throwing deep and getting 40-50 yards on a close play. 15 yards is good with me 

[husker61]

I do think pass interference penalties should be reviewed like baseball does. I think it has been great for baseball! Those penalties change a game more than any other and have to be correct. 
 

I also think it was a huge mistake when the nfl got in bed with sports gambling! No sport should.they worry about the integrity of the game, but then get in bed with the people that could hurt the integrity just to make more money. The nfl doesn’t have any money issues that pushed them to do this, just greed.
 

 

[sb41champs]

I wonder if there will be any "consequences" for Irsay for publicly airing his comments about what the NFL front office told him.

 

In my humble opinion - he has started a dialogue that the NFL needs to "man up" and start correcting inaccuracies IN GAME - rather than "admit and apologize" the following week.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, indyagent17 said:

I have been saying for years that the NFL should adopt the college rule on PI. I am sick on teams throwing deep and getting 40-50 yards on a close play. 15 yards is good with me 

 

Do you watch a lot of college football? I don't know what makes me more upset, seeing a close PI result in a 40 yard gain for the offense, or seeing a blatant PI wipe out a scoring play and only get penalized 15 yards.

[stitches]

12 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Do you watch a lot of college football? I don't know what makes me more upset, seeing a close PI result in a 40 yard gain for the offense, or seeing a blatant PI wipe out a scoring play and only get penalized 15 yards.

 

Hah! Exactly my feelings... both annoy me to no end and still I think the blatant PI on 50-yards TD only getting 15 yards penalty is somehow more egregious. I think the NFL has this one right. 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

Hah! Exactly my feelings... both annoy me to no end and still I think the blatant PI on 50-yards TD only getting 15 yards penalty is somehow more egregious. I think the NFL has this one right. 

 

Yeah, I've seen defenders purposefully grab a receiver way downfield, knowing they were beat. It just feels like a loophole that players exploit.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

I've been watching for 60 years but in all fairness , didn't see many games until the NFL package came out. This was bad indeed and no one mentioned the ridiculous holding call on Fries that negated a big gain and led to the blocked 60 yard attempt. This was bad as you say but was it as bad as the Matte playoff loss vs Green Bay in the late 60's. I was watching and could plainly see that Chandlers last minute FG to tie the game was wide right.

Yeah the bogus call on Fries was really bad as well, it just gets overlooked because that nonsense that took place at the end of the game. You are right though, if the hold isn't called, we have a 1st down at the 20 and the block FG probably never happens. That block FG was a 10 point swing.

[jvan1973]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, I've seen defenders purposefully grab a receiver way downfield, knowing they were beat. It just feels like a loophole that players exploit.

And absolutely coached.  If you are beat,  grab him.   Maybe magoo misses it

[Nickster]

5 hours ago, husker61 said:

I do think pass interference penalties should be reviewed like baseball does. I think it has been great for baseball! Those penalties change a game more than any other and have to be correct. 
 

I also think it was a huge mistake when the nfl got in bed with sports gambling! No sport should.they worry about the integrity of the game, but then get in bed with the people that could hurt the integrity just to make more money. The nfl doesn’t have any money issues that pushed them to do this, just greed.
 

 

I agree about it being good for baseball.   The only issue husker is that you’d have to either change the rule to no contact whatsoever initiated by either player or there would still be subjective difference of opinion on PI calls.  You’d have to do something like this or just correct the Uber obvious miscalls.  
 

In baseball they changed several rules or called it by the letter around the time replay was implemented.  They eliminated the “area” play on double play by requiring the relay man to actually touch the bag with possession of the ball.  But in order to feasibly do this without going trough about a million middle infielders season they had to change the rule and require base runners to slide directly to the bag.  This effectively made these scenarios objective with little to no room for interpretation.  Same with swipe tags.  No longer was it if the ball beat the runner but if he was actually tagged .

 

With PI, man you couldn’t go with a no contact rule.  It just wouldn’t be football and then you’d have arguments about who initiated contact like the holding Sunday.

 

I think you can’t expect the NFL to be as exact as baseball.  They have tech that can get most everything correct including balls and strikes and I wish they’d go to computer balls and strikes.

 

But in football I think the best you can do is clear and obvious errors like soccer.  My point is that on most baseball calls we have tech that will demonstrate absolute correctness or correctness of calls.  I don’t think that’s possible in FB but you could correct clear and obvious errors.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I think in the last 2 minutes of a game, each team should have 1 challenge regarding a PI. That would ease a lot of people's minds. If a PI is called or not called and it is questionable, a team should have a chance to challenge it. In otherwards, if the REFS can go back and look and determine whether a ball is catchable, I would think they would get it right 100% of the time. If it is obvious the ball wasn't catchable, they would look like bumbling fools at that point (people would think it is fixed at that point as well) if they didn't reverse the call. If PI occurs like in the Rams at Saints game and they don't call it, same thing. They would look like fools if they try and say that wasn't a PI. Diehard football fans know what PI is and what isn't if it is obvious. It wouldn't even slow down the game, it is 1 play. It is baffling why this rule wasn't put in a decade ago with the league being the passing game it is now.

[EasyE]

On 10/24/2023 at 9:44 PM, GoColts8818 said:

I believe most called this Sunday.

It's always sorry about that every time a game gets botched by the refs. Maybe NFL needs to calm it down on new rules every year and get back to true football and rules? Just a thought.. I know it is a lot about player safety, seems like more blown out knees these days than in the past. Hit low and ruin a guys knee seems like these days. JMO I believe in player safety, but gosh!! New stuff every year, no wonder refs can't get calls right. IMO Refs got the calls jacked up in ending of Colts game..

[superrep1967]

I was so mad during this game that I'm surprised my place is still standing. Yeah, terrible calls but can't worry about them because nothing going to change the outcome we are at the mercy of the refs and their decision is final. I just don't think refs should have this much power I mean what if a ref hates a team or is secretly rooting for another team or has money on the game on a team? These guys are human and think these things can and have happened but we will never know for sure. I know a ref got caught in the NBA why not the NFL? So I do think there should be instant replays in the last two minutes on all calls that look outlandish to the naked eye which includes everything from PI, holding, and illegal contact. 

[bluebombers87]

13 hours ago, stitches said:

 

Hah! Exactly my feelings... both annoy me to no end and still I think the blatant PI on 50-yards TD only getting 15 yards penalty is somehow more egregious. I think the NFL has this one right. 

I look at it as of a defender has the wherewithal to know they’ve been beat, they can take the penalty, just like in the NBA. And 15 yards is a pretty significant chunk of yardage that in almost any situation is gonna set the offense up significantly.

 

If the pass is still caught, decline the penalty. If it isn’t, there was no guarantee it would have been caught either way. 
 

I think back to Rodgers chucking one for the end zone from his side of the field. PI was called and it put it at the 1 yard line.

 

Overall the NCAA rule limits the impact an opinion can have on the game, which is ultimately a good thing. 

[husker61]

12 hours ago, Nickster said:

I agree about it being good for baseball.   The only issue husker is that you’d have to either change the rule to no contact whatsoever initiated by either player or there would still be subjective difference of opinion on PI calls.  You’d have to do something like this or just correct the Uber obvious miscalls.  
 

In baseball they changed several rules or called it by the letter around the time replay was implemented.  They eliminated the “area” play on double play by requiring the relay man to actually touch the bag with possession of the ball.  But in order to feasibly do this without going trough about a million middle infielders season they had to change the rule and require base runners to slide directly to the bag.  This effectively made these scenarios objective with little to no room for interpretation.  Same with swipe tags.  No longer was it if the ball beat the runner but if he was actually tagged .

 

With PI, man you couldn’t go with a no contact rule.  It just wouldn’t be football and then you’d have arguments about who initiated contact like the holding Sunday.

 

I think you can’t expect the NFL to be as exact as baseball.  They have tech that can get most everything correct including balls and strikes and I wish they’d go to computer balls and strikes.

 

But in football I think the best you can do is clear and obvious errors like soccer.  My point is that on most baseball calls we have tech that will demonstrate absolute correctness or correctness of calls.  I don’t think that’s possible in FB but you could correct clear and obvious errors.

maybe the nba is a better example. Watching the bucks/Philly game, there were several foul calls that were challenged. Most, maybe all, of them were ruled incidental contact, that is what happens a lot on pass interference calls. All the nba players have learned to act as if they were blatantly fouled when really weren’t. Hopefully the incidental contact rulings will lessen this practice. Maybe expand the flopping rule?

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, husker61 said:

maybe the nba is a better example. Watching the bucks/Philly game, there were several foul calls that were challenged. Most, maybe all, of them were ruled incidental contact, that is what happens a lot on pass interference calls. All the nba players have learned to act as if they were blatantly fouled when really weren’t. Hopefully the incidental contact rulings will lessen this practice. Maybe expand the flopping rule?

I watched the Lakers game last night and 2 calls got overturned, both against LeBron. So if it can happen in the NBA vs the so-called King, I know the NFL can do something different.

[2006Coltsbestever]

11 hours ago, superrep1967 said:

I was so mad during this game that I'm surprised my place is still standing. Yeah, terrible calls but can't worry about them because nothing going to change the outcome we are at the mercy of the refs and their decision is final. I just don't think refs should have this much power I mean what if a ref hates a team or is secretly rooting for another team or has money on the game on a team? These guys are human and think these things can and have happened but we will never know for sure. I know a ref got caught in the NBA why not the NFL? So I do think there should be instant replays in the last two minutes on all calls that look outlandish to the naked eye which includes everything from PI, holding, and illegal contact. 

I hear ya. Had that been a playoff game, that would have been a really bad look. I probably would have broke this lamp I got on my office desk. It has been bothering me for a while anyway 

[Pelt]

On 10/26/2023 at 12:04 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have watched almost every Colts games since 1984 and since Sunday I was trying to think when we got cheated worse. I can't, that is how bad Sunday was. We have had games against the Steelers and Pats that have had questionable Reffing, but I have never encountered anything like I witnessed Sunday at the end of that game. 

 

Imagine had that been a playoff game? That is a scary thought.

To this day, if I think about the January 1996 AFC Championship Game against Pittsburgh long enough, I still angry about it.

 

Stewart should've been penalized for catching the ball after running out of the back of the end zone but instead the damn refs gave them the touchdown...

 

Excuse me, I have to go and punch something now...

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Pelt said:

To this day, if I think about the January 1996 AFC Championship Game against Pittsburgh long enough, I still angry about it.

 

Stewart should've been penalized for catching the ball after running out of the back of the end zone but instead the damn refs gave them the touchdown...

 

Excuse me, I have to go and punch something now...

Yeah that was bad and it was for a SB trip but last week was 2 bad calls in the last minute that flat out gave the game to the Browns. It left our defense helpless. 

[Dingus McGirt]

Do whatever - I’m just fed up with the flagfest games have become.

 

 Of course, with seven sets of eyes - all wanting to find an infraction on every play - watching, it’s to be expected.

[2006Coltsbestever]

11 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Do whatever - I’m just fed up with the flagfest games have become.

 

 Of course, with seven sets of eyes - all wanting to find an infraction on every play - watching, it’s to be expected.

Bad calls happen, this has been going on for the 47 years I have been watching anyway lol. So for me, blaming the REFS is usually a cop out excuse. I usually take a loss and move on. It is when it goes overboard for 1 team, that is where I have a huge problem and it did Sunday.