The refs and Adam archuleta (MERGE)

[coltsorioles]

I have 2 topics in 1 post. This year more than ever the refs are controlling the game.  Those back to back calls  at  the end of the game were 2 terrible judgment calls.  Then look at the Steelers game. Last week the browns vs 49ers. I could go on and on. The league wants 9-8 and 8-9 teams, and traditionally the more popular teams get the controversial calls. Pittsburgh, k.c. patriots, cowboys, bucs when Brady was there.      The other topic has anyone else noticed during every broadcast adam archuleta continues to disrespect the Colts and never says anything positive, 

[RollerColt]

It’s pretty bad tonight with the Eagles and Fins game as well. Several phantom calls already. 

[pgt_rob]

This Dolphins and Eagles game. Hurts was pushed but he sold it, definitely a bit of a flop. Ref threw a flag and the head ref ran over and literally said, “are you sure you want to flag this? Are you sure?” Like whaaatt is going on??

[Coltsbluefan]

24 minutes ago, coltsorioles said:

I have 2 topics in 1 post. This year more than ever the refs are controlling the game.  Those back to back calls  at  the end of the game were 2 terrible judgment calls.  Then look at the Steelers game. Last week the browns vs 49ers. I could go on and on. The league wants 9-8 and 8-9 teams, and traditionally the more popular teams get the controversial calls. Pittsburgh, k.c. patriots, cowboys, bucs when Brady was there.      The other topic has anyone else noticed during every broadcast adam archuleta continues to disrespect the Colts and never says anything positive, 

It doesn’t surprise me,the media loves to bash us when they have a chance 

[GoColts8818]

I think most fans think the guys call the game against the Colts.  I think they just react to what they see.  I know Archuleta had some very nice things to say today when the Colts did well.  He LOVED Blackmon’s pick and was one of the first to say he didn’t like the second PI call because the pass was uncatchable.  
 

I will say the Colts are probably going to get one of the lower announcer teams most of the year so remember these guys are the bottom of the barrel announcers for a reason.  If they were better they would be calling bigger games.  

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, coltsorioles said:

I have 2 topics in 1 post. This year more than ever the refs are controlling the game.  Those back to back calls  at  the end of the game were 2 terrible judgment calls.  Then look at the Steelers game. Last week the browns vs 49ers. I could go on and on. The league wants 9-8 and 8-9 teams, and traditionally the more popular teams get the controversial calls. Pittsburgh, k.c. patriots, cowboys, bucs when Brady was there.      The other topic has anyone else noticed during every broadcast adam archuleta continues to disrespect the Colts and never says anything positive, 

I actually thought Adam had one of his better games. Fairly equal except for his man crush on Miles

[IinD]

Officiating has been bad for a good long time with the occasional terrible weekend sprinkled in..

[Indyfan4life]

I’ve seen Eagles somehow have zero penalties and Miami has 10. 

[Indyfan4life]

I also saw that horrible roughing the passer call. Can’t believe the NFL allowed someone to stay on the field after such a dangerous hit on Hurts. 
 

/s

[jskinnz]

20 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

I’ve seen Eagles somehow have zero penalties and Miami has 10. 

I think that is largely because Miami has committed more penalties thank the Eagles. 

[jskinnz]

2 hours ago, coltsorioles said:

I have 2 topics in 1 post. This year more than ever the refs are controlling the game.  Those back to back calls  at  the end of the game were 2 terrible judgment calls.  Then look at the Steelers game. Last week the browns vs 49ers. I could go on and on. The league wants 9-8 and 8-9 teams, and traditionally the more popular teams get the controversial calls. Pittsburgh, k.c. patriots, cowboys, bucs when Brady was there.      The other topic has anyone else noticed during every broadcast adam archuleta continues to disrespect the Colts and never says anything positive, 

1) There is not a league wide conspiracy that favors certain teams. 
 

2) Adam Archuleta does not hate the Colts and is not always negative against them. 
 

Your thoughts here probably belong in the post game thread as they are not novel enough for their own thread. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

At least colts didn’t pay a QB all that money and draft picks for a player that hasn’t played and looked terrible.

21 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

I also saw that horrible roughing the passer call. Can’t believe the NFL allowed someone to stay on the field after such a dangerous hit on Hurts. 
 

/s

It was a late hit but not roughing  the passer.

[cbear]

Calls went against the Colts for sure, but nothing was egregiously bad imo. Archuletta was fine. Never thought he was biased against us. 

[Bravo]

NFL refs seem to be getting worse… but is that because replays are getting better?

 

NFL definitely knows how to control games if they need to.

[BCMak24]

4 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

At least colts didn’t pay a QB all that money and draft picks for a player that hasn’t played and looked terrible.

It was a late hit but not roughing  the passer.

Any late hit on the qb is roughing the passer penalty 

[lollygagger8]

[jemack]

Officiating like this always brings me back to the '98 Colts-49ers game. 4 or 5 Phantom PI calls and Colts lose a heartbreaker. Colts got an apology letter. Big whoop...

[FanFromtheWasteland]

Was that the same game when the SF receiver ran out the back of the end zone to get around the ref and then came back in an caught the "winning" TD?

[CoachLite]

41 minutes ago, jemack said:

Officiating like this always brings me back to the '98 Colts-49ers game. 4 or 5 Phantom PI calls and Colts lose a heartbreaker. Colts got an apology letter. Big whoop...

Apology letters won't cut it. I stopped watching NFL football after the Colts game. The NFL needs to be investigated, and not some "internal investigation". That's not sport, that's only entertainment where the outcome is pre-determined.

[Dunk]

1 hour ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

Was that the same game when the SF receiver ran out the back of the end zone to get around the ref and then came back in an caught the "winning" TD?

You are thinking of the 95 AFC championship game Vs Steelers. It was Kordell Stewart.

 

The S.F. game JJ Stokes engaged Jeff Burris head on, pushed him 5 yards into the end zone. Burris picked the pass, but got flagged for P I.  I remember there were other calls as well.

[Two_pound]

I think that was also the game where a Colt had deflected a pass but since the receiver had gone out of bounds and come back in before the ball was tipped, he technically wasn't the first to touch it so it was counted as a touchdown. Really was a super gift to the niners. But that's the way it goes in the nfl. The Colts NEVER would have gotten that same break.

[Dunk]

6 minutes ago, Two_pound said:

I think that was also the game where a Colt had deflected a pass but since the receiver had gone out of bounds and come back in before the ball was tipped, he technically wasn't the first to touch it so it was counted as a touchdown. Really was a super gift to the niners. But that's the way it goes in the nfl. The Colts NEVER would have gotten that same break.

Probably was.

I just remember that Niners receivers could push off (Ala Michael Irvin) and never get called, but our Dbs got flagged anytime SF needed bailed out.  

Peyton's rookie year, so maybe that loss allowed us to draft Edge? Looking for a silver lining I guess.

[Nickster]

13 hours ago, csmopar said:

I actually thought Adam had one of his better games. Fairly equal except for his man crush on Miles

Miles should have been crushed on Sunday. He was a Holy Terror. 

[Nickster]

10 hours ago, cbear said:

Calls went against the Colts for sure, but nothing was egregiously bad imo. Archuletta was fine. Never thought he was biased against us. 

 

That PI was horrific.  The Defensive holding is questionable, but I don't have a problem with it.  The PI play was riduculous.

 

The ball landed past the dotted yellow line which is where the spectators and other people on sidelilnes can watch the game from.  If the receiver was the Jolly Green Giant or had an Inspector Gadget Go-Go arm, then that ball was catchable.  But since the player was an actually specimen of * sapiens, that was as bad a call as you'll see.  I can't believe they didn't confer and rule that uncatchable. 

 

I'm pretty understanding of how difficult a job officiating FB is since there are so many ways to intrepret what happens on the field.

But to declare that ball catchable defies the laws of physics and human physiology. 

[John Waylon]

I don’t see why the NFL can’t have an official with access to all the replay tools who can sit there and verify or correct a call in real-time to get the % right. Get it * right. The whole darn world sees it Sunday night and Monday when you don’t, and we’re seeing it more than ever. Take a few extra seconds to get it * right. 

 

That said, there were a couple of flags that were picked up during the game yesterday that I felt came down from upstairs. An illegal man downfield was called on the Browns and then quickly reversed, and there was a flag thrown against one of our DBs that was rescinded in the middle of the game. 
 

Obviously the refs didn’t throw these flags and then come up and say “oopsies”. They didn’t throw the flag and then stand there staring up at the big boards for the replay and go “ope, shouldn’t have dropped that one”.

These calls, entirely correct calls in both cases, came from someone watching who buzzed the refs and said “that’s not the right call, pick up the flag.” 
 

Why were we getting that in the 2nd and 3rd quarter on obviously frivolous penalties and with the game on the line in the 4th quarter the refs make a lineage of bad calls and no one cares to get it right? 
 

Get it right. We have the technology. We have the means. 
 

Get. It. *. Right.

 

I don’t care if it fundamentally changes the way the game is officiated. I don’t care if it changes the makeup of a reffing crew or eliminates some officials on the field of play entirely. If they were getting this % right to begin with there wouldn’t be a problem.
 

But there is.

 

And the fix is real easy. 

 

Why is the NFL only buzzing down to have certain flags corrected with no rhyme or reason for when or why it occurs? Why was there only 7 people on the face of the planet yesterday who thought that was PI in the end zone when every other competent human being in this galaxy and the next could clearly see it was not? And why are we letting those 7 get it wrong and have an adverse impact on the product when millions watching in real-time knew it was nonsense? 
 

The state of NFL officiating is as bad as it’s ever been, and it continues to get worse every year. All because no one wants to put any real effort into getting it right because “this is how it’s always been done”. 

[jvan1973]

3 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

I don’t see why the NFL can’t have an official with access to all the replay tools who can sit there and verify or correct a call in real-time to get the % right. Get it * right. The whole darn world sees it Sunday night and Monday when you don’t, and we’re seeing it more than ever. Take a few extra seconds to get it * right. 

 

That said, there were a couple of flags that were picked up during the game yesterday that I felt came down from upstairs. An illegal man downfield was called on the Browns and then quickly reversed, and there was a flag thrown against one of our DBs that was rescinded in the middle of the game. 
 

Obviously the refs didn’t throw these flags and then come up and say “oopsies”. They didn’t throw the flag and then stand there staring up at the big boards for the replay and go “ope, shouldn’t have dropped that one”.

These calls, entirely correct calls in both cases, came from someone watching who buzzed the refs and said “that’s not the right call, pick up the flag.” 
 

Why were we getting that in the 2nd and 3rd quarter on obviously frivolous penalties and with the game on the line in the 4th quarter the refs make a lineage of bad calls and no one cares to get it right? 
 

Get it right. We have the technology. We have the means. 
 

Get. It. *. Right.

 

I don’t care if it fundamentally changes the way the game is officiated. I don’t care if it changes the makeup of a reffing crew or eliminates some officials on the field of play entirely. If they were getting this % right to begin with there wouldn’t be a problem.
 

But there is.

 

And the fix is real easy. 

 

Why is the NFL only buzzing down to have certain flags corrected with no rhyme or reason for when or why it occurs? Why was there only 7 people on the face of the planet yesterday who thought that was PI in the end zone when every other competent human being in this galaxy and the next could clearly see it was not? And why are we letting those 7 get it wrong and have an adverse impact on the product when millions watching in real-time knew it was nonsense? 
 

The state of NFL officiating is as bad as it’s ever been, and it continues to get worse every year. All because no one wants to put any real effort into getting it right because “this is how it’s always been done”. 

No one is buzzing down to correct calls.  The officials on the field confer with each other and make the determination 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

That said, there were a couple of flags that were picked up during the game yesterday that I felt came down from upstairs. An illegal man downfield was called on the Browns and then quickly reversed, and there was a flag thrown against one of our DBs that was rescinded in the middle of the game. 

 

I didn't catch the explanation on the ineligible downfield call. The guy was clearly more than 1 yard past the line of scrimmage when the pass was thrown, so I don't understand why they picked it up.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

No one is buzzing down to correct calls.  The officials on the field confer with each other and make the determination 

 

No I think they do get help. There's a replay official at every game who buzzes down for reviewable plays inside of two minutes. That official is also in contact with the HQ replay center. And I believe it's been mentioned, but is not official policy, that the local replay official and HQ can give an assist when there's an obvious correction to be made. It happens during these "expedited reviews." I don't know if it's happening frequently, but I'm pretty sure it does happen.

[bluebombers87]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

No one is buzzing down to correct calls.  The officials on the field confer with each other and make the determination 

 

https://operations.nfl.com/officiating/instant-replay/replay-assistance-rule/

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

No I think they do get help. There's a replay official at every game who buzzes down for reviewable plays inside of two minutes. That official is also in contact with the HQ replay center. And I believe it's been mentioned, but is not official policy, that the local replay official and HQ can give an assist when there's an obvious correction to be made. It happens during these "expedited reviews." I don't know if it's happening frequently, but I'm pretty sure it does happen.

If that's the case, then how was the PI not over turned?  That was the definition of of clear and obvious. 

 

Why isn't every call reviewed?  It would eliminate the need of challenges. 

[jvan1973]

6 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

 

https://operations.nfl.com/officiating/instant-replay/replay-assistance-rule/

From that article it says it can't be used on illegal lineman down field

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

If that's the case, then how was the PI not over turned?  That was the definition of of clear and obvious. 

 

Why isn't every call reviewed?  It would eliminate the need of challenges. 

 

Unless they're going to have a full staff reviewing every play in real time, and stopping the game frequently, I don't think that's a viable option. And I think it would make some games unwatchable. 

 

And I think the PI was not overturned because the NFL standard for "uncatchable" is kind of blatant, even if it's not spelled out in the rule. I think it's obvious that the pass wasn't catchable, and the flag should have been picked up. But I've seen similar plays get flagged on passes that I think are obviously uncatchable.

 

The bigger question I have is whether the hold was close enough to the throw, that they could have just called defensive holding anyway. It's only five yards, instead of putting the ball at the 1, but it still would have sucked, and probably would have cost us the game. I think Darrell Baker committed PI, and if the only thing that would have bailed him out is an interpretation of whether the ball was catchable or not, then it's hard for me to stir up too much outrage. If the throw is 3 feet shorter, we're not really talking about this. Bad call for sure, the refs need to be better, but Baker obviously grabbed the guy.

 

And we put a bunch of young, untested corners on the field this year, knowing there would be growing pains. These are the growing pains.

[bluebombers87]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

From that article it says it can't be used on illegal lineman down field

Correct. But they do buzz down and assist the in field teams.

 

And just because it says they can’t, we unfortunately aren’t given access to their transmissions to verify.

[John Waylon]

10 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

No one is buzzing down to correct calls.  The officials on the field confer with each other and make the determination 

They’ve said it on multiple broadcasts this season. I’ve seen it in at least half a dozen of the games I’ve watched.
 

In fact, it happened on the national MNF broadcast October 9th between the Packers and Raiders. There was an illegal man downfield call that was picked up and the announcers specifically stated that the call to rescind the flag had come from someone not on the field. 
 

But there’s absolutely nothing in this universe that you don’t know or are anything short of an expert on, so I don’t expect these truths to affect you. 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

From that article it says it can't be used on illegal lineman down field

 

It doesn't say that.

 

Quote

 

The new assistance rule applies to plays where there is clear and obvious video evidence to proactively address specific objective rulings, such as spot of the ball or a foul, complete or incomplete pass, and touching of the ball or a line:

Penalty enforcement

Confirmation of the proper down

Spot of a foul

Game clock administration

Possession of a loose ball

Complete or incomplete pass

Loose ball touching a boundary line, goal line, or end line

Location of the football or a player in relation to a boundary line, line of scrimmage, line to gain, or goal line

Player down by contact (when not ruled down on the field)

 

 

And here's the actual rule:

Quote

 

ARTICLE 9. GAME ADMINISTRATION AND CONSULTATION

The Replay Official and designated members of the Officiating department may consult with on-field officials, or conduct a replay review, or advise the game officials on specific, objective aspects of a play when clear and obvious video evidence is present, and/or to address game administration issues, including, but not limited to:

penalty enforcement;

the proper down;

spot of a foul;

the game clock;

possession;

completed or intercepted pass;

touching of a loose ball, boundary line, goal line, or end line;

location of the football or a player in relation to a boundary line, the line of scrimmage, the line to gain, or the goal line; or

down by contact (when a player is not ruled down by contact on the field).

 

 

 

[bluebombers87]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Unless they're going to have a full staff reviewing every play in real time, and stopping the game frequently, I don't think that's a viable option. And I think it would make some games unwatchable. 

 

And I think the PI was not overturned because the NFL standard for "uncatchable" is kind of blatant, even if it's not spelled out in the rule. I think it's obvious that the pass wasn't catchable, and the flag should have been picked up. But I've seen similar plays get flagged on passes that I think are obviously uncatchable.

 

The bigger question I have is whether the hold was close enough to the throw, that they could have just called defensive holding anyway. It's only five yards, instead of putting the ball at the 1, but it still would have sucked, and probably would have cost us the game. I think Darrell Baker committed PI, and if the only thing that would have bailed him out is an interpretation of whether the ball was catchable or not, then it's hard for me to stir up too much outrage. If the throw is 3 feet shorter, we're not really talking about this. Bad call for sure, the refs need to be better, but Baker obviously grabbed the guy.

 

And we put a bunch of young, untested corners on the field this year, knowing there would be growing pains. These are the growing pains.

Agreed. And yes we knew this was going to happen with our secondary but for the team to overcome that many obstacles (self inflicted or otherwise) to just have it taken away like that is the frustration. 

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, John Waylon said:

They’ve said it on multiple broadcasts this season. I’ve seen it in at least half a dozen of the games I’ve watched.
 

In fact, it happened on the national MNF broadcast October 9th between the Packers and Raiders. There was an illegal man downfield call that was picked up and the announcers specifically stated that the call to rescind the flag had come from someone not on the field. 
 

But there’s absolutely nothing in this universe that you don’t know or are anything short of an expert on, so I don’t expect these truths to affect you. 

I hadn't heard of that so my apologies.   My next question is why?  It opens up even more conspiracy theories.   Some calls are buzzed down, some aren't.   Why isn't it announced when it's used and when it isn't?  A guy watching a play can overturn a call made by the head ref on the field?    I don't mind using the technology,  but either go full on with it,  or don't use it

[bluebombers87]

Just now, Superman said:

 

It doesn't say that.

 

 

And here's the actual rule:

 

 

Going into the actual rule book it does state it does not apply to receivers going downfield. It wasn’t in the actual link as they said it was but it was in the rule.

 

Regardless, it does prove that the on field team gets assistance from upstairs/NY which was the point of contention.

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It doesn't say that.

 

 

And here's the actual rule:

 

 

Go to section 4.  Non reviewable plays

[Superman]

Just now, bluebombers87 said:

Agreed. And yes we knew this was going to happen with our secondary but for the team to overcome that many obstacles (self inflicted or otherwise) to just have it taken away like that is the frustration. 

 

I understand the frustration, and I share it. I think the refs made a bad call, and it cost us the game. And I think HQ should have overruled it. I would not be surprised if we get something from the NFL saying this was a mistake.

 

But I also think the frustration can be blinding. Baker committed PI. If the throw is better, we have nothing to complain about. If they call defensive holding, we have nothing to complain about. If Baker isn't getting cooked by Amari Cooper, we have nothing to complain about.