AR vs Young vs Stroud vs Levis

[OLD FAN MAN]

On 9/29/2023 at 7:04 AM, smittywerb said:

I was definitely high on stroud and was ok with AR if we got him.  I would’ve been ok with young also but he was number three.  Worst case scenario for me was getting Levis, especially after the combine.  
 

In hindsight, I think we would’ve been ok with stroud, AR, or Young.  All 3 have shown they belong.  Unfortunately, young plays for a coach who can’t get out of his own way.  

young is ahead of ar in passing yards

[smittywerb]

3 hours ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

young is ahead of ar in passing yards

1.  That honestly doesn’t mean anything.  It might be multiple reasons why that’s the case.  Could be what their offense calls for, could be they have no running game, could be Reich spamming passing plays.  But from what I’ve seen, Reich is being the usual Reich in Charlotte which means his QB isn’t in the best position to succeed.

 

2.  Just because a QB had more passing yards doesn’t mean he’s better.  Also, AR isn’t going to be the QB who breaks passing records (at least I don’t think) due to his dual threat ability.  He very could if our offense was vertical enough.  But for now a lot of his damage is going to be on the ground.

[Solid84]

5 hours ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

young is ahead of ar in passing yards

He's also played 1.5 games more than AR.

[2006Coltsbestever]

If you just go by passing Yards, Stroud is the best by far for rookies. Since when is Yards the only measure to how great a QB is though? If we went by Yards only, Kirk Cousins would be a top 3 QB in the league. AR has accounted for 7 Colts TDs, Stroud 6 TDs for Houston and AR has even missed a game. Both are pretty even regarding INTs = AR has 1, Stroud 0 so that is a push. In our game at Houston, AR outplayed Stroud in the 1st half before leaving and we won. I would say it is pretty even so far.

[Nickster]

I haven’t seen a single down of Young, but using ESPN, his QBR is 25 which is as bad as it gets and his passer rating is 75.  I don’t know what’s going on over there at all, but the notion that Reich produces bad QB numbers is an untenable position to take statistically.  Luck had the best year of his career under Reich, Wentz had a QBR 20 + points higher than the season before and the season after, Rivers had a major bounce back year with 2 bad ankles, and for a couple months, some deluded media types thought of Jacoby friggin Brissett as an MVP candidate.  Ryan sucked but he sucked way worse under ole Jeff and was clearly washed up.  Not a huge Reich guy but his system historically appears very QB friendly.  Ie.  Young is clearly not ready and or headed for a bust.  Not passing judgement on the little guy but he’s been godawful statistically so far.  That much is clear.

 

AR and CJS are multiverses better so far.  AR has a decent QBR of 53.5 but a pedestrian passer rating of 85.4.  Most of his decent QBR is a function of his running and scrambling to avoid big losses.  Some people are having difficulty adjusting to the reality of the dual threat QB in 2023 but AR overall is doing all right.  Not near as well as some people here think but he’s doing OK.  I’ll keep saying it but the dude is going to have to figure out how to get tackled better and help himself prevent his head from bouncing off the turf or he’s not going to last the season.  There are lots of ways to help minimize this but it’s a real issue IMo.  But performance wise he’s doing fine and to me it’s clear he can start in this league while healthy.  
 

CJ stroud has a little better QBR than AR at 57.5 and a miles better passer rating at 100.6.  The main reason that his QBR isn’t way better than AR is that he took 11 sacks his first two games.  He’s taken 0 in the last 2 which is almost implausible.  Don’t know what he’s done the last two.  Maybe Tunsil is playing?  He’s been coached up a little? He and the Texans dominated PItt and if TJW played its Uber impressive not to take a single sack.  If not it’s still pretty good.  CJ is making a star out of Nico Collins so far.  Very impressive pocket passing rookie.
 

CJ looks like a stud to me.  AR has shown flashes.  The big questions are developing accuracy and to me the bigger issue is the damage he’s accumulating with his playing style.  Every NFL defender is an animal of an athlete and he’s got to learn to protect himself and to realize that these guys are way bigger stronger faster than college guys.  Point being I don’t think ARs brain will be able to sustain the damage it must be taking so far.

 

I think that that new test they give prospects that tests spatial processing speed or whatever might take a lot of the guesswork out of prospects.  You can see clearly that AR is able to slow the game down mentally.  To me his college tape does not look like an NFL QB with the throwing issues.  People were wowed by the combine numbers and the deep throws but I was struck by the inaccuracy when throwing to the boundary on air at the combine.  But after hearing about the mental processing number and of course seeing the physical beastness obvious talent, I was more optimistic.  I think all this is playing out.  The athletic talent and processing speed  is allowing him to look decent even though the throwing is erratic.

 

I’d definitely rather have CJ and he was my tepid favorite going into the draft.  I don’t make CFB to NFL predictions.  Don’t watch much CFB and it’s hard for everyone including NFL FOs to project that position coming into the league with  all the busts year after year.  I wanted Leaf in 98.

 

As long as AR stays healthy it looks like he’s at the least NFL starter level.  If his throwing improves he might be great someday.

[smittywerb]

Yeah, Stroud and AR will grow to be winners, but they will win in their own respective ways.  It’s exciting to see because they’re both in AFC AND AFC South.  Stroud will most likely beat you with his arm and short runs while AR will be multi-dimensional.  Both are good. 
 

As far as Young, I don’t know what to think.  He’s struggling.  I think he has the talent but idk if it’s him adjusting to the game or his coach, or both.  It sucks because I was looking forward to watching these 3 QBs grow this year.  So far it’s just been AR and Stroud wowing people while Young is not having a good time.  I at least thought Stroud would be the one to struggle because he has a defensive HC and the Texans are lacking talent, but he’s actually looked the best.

[smittywerb]

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I haven’t seen a single down of Young, but using ESPN, his QBR is 25 which is as bad as it gets and his passer rating is 75.  I don’t know what’s going on over there at all, but the notion that Reich produces bad QB numbers is an untenable position to take statistically.  Luck had the best year of his career under Reich, Wentz had a QBR 20 + points higher than the season before and the season after, Rivers had a major bounce back year with 2 bad ankles, and for a couple months, some deluded media types thought of Jacoby friggin Brissett as an MVP candidate for about six weeks.  Ryan sucked but he sucked way worse under ole Jeff and was clearly washed up.  Not a huge Reich guy but his system historically appears very QB friendly.  Ie.  Young is clearly not ready and or headed for a bust.  Not passing judgement on the little guy but he’s been godawful statistically so far.  That much is clear.

 

AR and CJS are multiverses better so far.  AR has a decent QBR of 53.5 but a pedestrian passer rating of 85.4.  Most of his decent QBR is a function of his running and scrambling to avoid big losses.  Some people are having difficulty adjusting to the reality of the dual threat QB in 2023 but AR overall is doing all right.  Not near as well as some people here think.  I’ll keep saying it but the dude is going to have to figure out how to get tackled better and help himself prevent his head from bouncing off the turf or he’s not going to last the season.  There are lots of ways to help minimize this but it’s a real issue IMo.  But performance wise he’s doing fine and to me it’s clear he can start in this league while healthy.  
 

CJ stroud has a little better QBR than AR at 57.5 and a miles better passer rating at 100.6.  The main reason that his QBR isn’t way better than AR is that he took 11 sacks his first two games.  He’s taken 0 in the last 2 which is almost implausible.  Don’t know what he’s done the last two.  Maybe Tunsil is playing?  He’s been coached up a little.  He and the Texans dominated PItt and if TJW played its Uber impressive not to take a single sack.  If not it’s still pretty good.  CJ is making a star out of Nico Collins so far.  Very impressive pocket passing rookie.
 

CJ looks like a stud.  AR has shown flashes.  The big questions are developing accuracy and to me the bigger is the damage he’s accumulating with his playing style.  Every NFL defender is an animal of an athlete and he’s got to learn to protect himself and to realize that these guys are way bigger stronger faster than college guys.  Point being I don’t think ARs brain will be able to sustain the damage it must be taking p.

 

I think that that new test they give prospects that tests spatial processing speed or whatever might take a lot of the guesswork out of prospects.  You can see clearly that AR is able to slow the game down mentally.  To me his college tape does not look like an NFL QB with the throwing issues.  People were wowed by the combine numbers and the deep throws but I was struck by the inaccuracy when throwing to the boundary on air at the combine.  But after hearing about the mental processing number and of course the obvious talent, I was more optimistic.  I think all this is playing out.  The athletic talent is allowing him to look decent even though the throwing is erratic.

 

I’d definitely rather have CJ and he was my tepid favorite going into the draft.  I don’t make CFB to NFL predictions.  Don’t watch much CFB and it’s hard for everyone including NFL FOs to project that position coming into the league with  all the busts year after year.

 

As long as AR stays healthy it looks like he’s at the least NFL starter level.  If his throwing improves he might be great someday.

Couple notes here so I’ll put them in bullet points:

 

- say what you want about Reich, but HE chose Young.  They gave up what they gave to go get HIM.  So if Young is failing, Reich plays a part in that too.  He took on that responsibility to coach him up and so far he’s failing.  Ryans and Shane has their QBs looking like future stars.  And those Reich stats are misleading because anyone can look good with Luck and when comparing his best years to previous years, remember who his coaches were.  You could mention Arians but I didn’t like what he was doing with luck.  He had him launching it taking big hits with a crap oline.  Regarding wentz, we saw what he looked like when the run game was stopped.

 

- agree about AR staying healthy, I think he’ll learn.  His runs last game weren’t as physical, but moreso opportunistic.  And he got hurt because his +300lb OL stepped on him but he shook it off.  He’ll learn.  
 

- as far as his package, that’s his package.  He’s good because one of his talents is his athletic ability.  You can’t separate his athletic ability from his production or how he looks because that’s what makes him special.  And agree, if the throwing improves he’ll definitely be the better QB out of all 3.

 

- I was definitely on the stroud train before we got Shane, then I was ok with either stroud or AR because I trusted he can develop whoever we pick.  When it comes to Stroud vs AR, I think it’s preference.  While stroud is and will be the better passer, AR can beat you with his arm and legs.  Both will be very good if everything works out, it’s all going to depend on how both teams build.  

[smittywerb]

We all knew that out of the 3, Stroud was the most NFL ready and it shows.  We took AR because of what he COULD be.  You couldn’t go wrong with either one.  It’s whether you wanted something now or something later.  But I will say Stroud has looked the best out of the 3.

[Nickster]

5 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

Yeah, Stroud and AR will grow to be winners, but they will win in their own respective ways.  It’s exciting to see because they’re both in AFC AND AFC South.  Stroud will most likely beat you with his arm and short runs while AR will be multi-dimensional.  Both are good. 
 

As far as Young, I don’t know what to think.  He’s struggling.  I think he has the talent but idk if it’s him adjusting to the game or his coach, or both.  It sucks because I was looking forward to watching these 3 QBs grow this year.  So far it’s just been AR and Stroud wowing people while Young is not having a good time.  I at least thought Stroud would be the one to struggle because he has a defensive HC and the Texans are lacking talent, but he’s actually looked the best.

I’d only focused on 1 CJ Stroud game, that semi final he was so good in and was just wondering WTH people were talking about.  He looked great under pressure and though

no burner he ran effectively that game too.

 

I didn’t know Bryce Young was a top prospect until watching maybe the last BAMA regular season game when it became clear INdy was going to ahem earn a very high pick.  He looked like a Munchkin and I thought he must have been a burner and my older son who follows BAMA a little said no he’s a pocket guy and passer.  He probably had a million yards and a thousand TDs, but it just looked like any other BAMA game to me ie. Pretty QB friendly with days to throw and do your nails in the pocket and guys coming open with miles of space and just utter BAMA style dominance.

 

I’d never even heard of Anthony Richardson until someone here mentioned him when I was talking about the KY mayonnaise eating kids release point reminding me of the pretty girl you can’t stop looking at that might not really be the marrying kind.  Was that you who mentioned him?

 

After seeing some tape on him I was thinking this guy is not a 1st rounder with the inaccuracy but thought maybe someone might take a chance mid to late.  He was super hyped at the combine for obvious reasons but I really thought that was hype.

 

SS and CB were preaching QB accuracy and then drafted this guy.  
But that processing test thing really struck me and then I really focused on watching the kid and you could see the calmness and feel for the pocket he shows now.  
 

I’m still not sure if he’s going to be a guy that can stay up this league and be a great QB on a great team but I see what they saw in him and and optimistic as long as his brain don’t turn into oatmeal dribbling off the turf.  
 

I would consider load management on the dude right now and I wonder if NFL will ever do it.  He might really benefit from 3rd week or so.  Rest the brain and body.  Watch and be involved in hearing and seeing what’s happening from the sideline.  Then he could spend like a whole week not preparing for the opponent but working with whoever his throwing technique guru is on certain subtle techniques.  If he’s going to have a technique overhaul that will obviously need to be in the off season,

[smittywerb]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

I’d only focused on 1 CJ Stroud game, that semi final he was so good in and was just wondering WTH people were talking about.  He looked great under pressure and though

no burner he ran effectively that game too.

 

I didn’t know Bryce Young was a top prospect until watching maybe the last BAMA regular season game when it became clear INdy was going to ahem earn a very high pick.  He looked like a Munchkin and I thought he must have been a burner and my older son who follows BAMA a little said no he’s a pocket guy and passer.  He probably had a million yards and a thousand TDs, but it just looked like any other BAMA game to me ie. Pretty QB friendly with days to throw and do your nails in the pocket and guys coming open with miles of space and just utter BAMA style dominance.

 

I’d never even heard of Anthony Richardson until someone here mentioned him when I was talking about the KY mayonnaise eating kids release point reminding me of the pretty girl you can’t stop looking at that might not really be the marrying kind.  Was that you who mentioned him?

 

After seeing some tape on him I was thinking this guy is not a 1st rounder with the inaccuracy but thought maybe someone might take a chance mid to late.  He was super hyped at the combine for obvious reasons but I really thought that was hype.

 

SS and CB were preaching QB accuracy and then drafted this guy.  
But that processing test thing really struck me and then I really focused on watching the kid and you could see the calmness and feel for the pocket he shows now.  
 

I’m still not sure if he’s going to be a guy that can stay up this league and be a great QB on a great team but I see what they saw in him and and optimistic as long as his brain don’t turn into oatmeal dribbling off the turf.  
 

I would consider load management on the dude right now and I wonder if NFL will ever do it.  He might really benefit from 3rd week or so.  Rest the brain and body.  Watch and be involved in hearing and seeing what’s happening from the sideline.  Then he could spend like a whole week not preparing for the opponent but working with whoever his throwing technique guru is on certain subtle techniques.  If he’s going to have a technique overhaul that will obviously need to be in the off season,

 

good post.

 

IMO, I think Shane will have him looking like Jalen 2.0.  Jalen runs, but like I said before, it’s more opportunistic.  I think we’re seeing AR run so much because he has to right now.  His receiving core is not really helping him by dropping balls and not getting open.  Once we put some better talent around him, he’ll have to run less.  

[Nickster]

12 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

Couple notes here so I’ll put them in bullet points:

 

- say what you want about Reich, but HE chose Young.  They gave up what they gave to go get HIM.  So if Young is failing, Reich plays a part in that too.  He took on that responsibility to coach him up and so far he’s failing.  Ryans and Shane has their QBs looking like future stars.  And those Reich stats are misleading because anyone can look good with Luck and when comparing his best years to previous years, remember who his coaches were.  You could mention Arians but I didn’t like what he was doing with luck.  He had him launching it taking big hits with a crap oline.  Regarding wentz, we saw what he looked like when the run game was stopped.

 

 

I didn’t like Young but huge grain of salt lol, I don’t judge CFB prospects.  But he was the  front runner from all I heard.  IDK man.  Not a huge Frank fan but I think it takes some mental gymnastics and or a bias not to see that QBs performed well statistically under him.  we might be able to say it was fools gold but statistically it’s astronomical coincidental that all,those guys had great stat years under him if he’s bad at coaching QBs.  Not I will say all those dudes were vets and maybe it takes a while dir rooks with Frank,  hes never developed a rook.  
 

Young has played 3 games.  We used to not judge QBs until year 3 lol, and we used to actually go outside and play as kids read about the stats in the newspaper the next morning and walk to school in the snow barefoot uphill both ways.  but statistically it’s not good so far.

 

12 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

- agree about AR staying healthy, I think he’ll learn.  His runs last game weren’t as physical, but moreso opportunistic.  And he got hurt because his +300lb OL stepped on him but he shook it off.  He’ll learn.  

 

 

yeah the lineman was just a 1 off but his head bounced off the turf at Least twice hard I remembered one on a of run 10 or so yards and then just saw the Donald hit that someone here posted.  That’s got to stop happening so frequently.  
 

12 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

- as far as his package, that’s his package.  He’s good because one of his talents is his athletic ability.  You can’t separate his athletic ability from his production or how he looks because that’s what makes him special.  And agree, if the throwing improves he’ll definitely be the better QB out of all 3.

 

 

I’m not separating but some guys are.  Hurts is elite.  Because he runs so well.

12 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

- I was definitely on the stroud train before we got Shane, then I was ok with either stroud or AR because I trusted he can develop whoever we pick.  When it comes to Stroud vs AR, I think it’s preference.  While stroud is and will be the better passer, AR can beat you with his arm and legs.  Both will be very good if everything works out, it’s all going to depend on how both teams build.  

Agree.

 

 

[Nickster]

10 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

 

good post.

 

IMO, I think Shane will have him looking like Jalen 2.0.  Jalen runs, but like I said before, it’s more opportunistic.  I think we’re seeing AR run so much because he has to right now.  His receiving core is not really helping him by dropping balls and not getting open.  Once we put some better talent around him, he’ll have to run less.  

jalen has two elite receivers for sure but he is a very accurate passer anyway and always was.  Despite the great athletic talent he has he looks like a little old grandma out there next to Anthony.  
 

but hurts ran the ball 160 times last year and is averaging 10 runs per this year most of which are called runs  and I strenuously disagree that AR will be a star without running alot.  

[csmopar]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If you just go by passing Yards, Stroud is the best by far for rookies. Since when is Yards the only measure to how great a QB is though? If we went by Yards only, Kirk Cousins would be a top 3 QB in the league. AR has accounted for 7 Colts TDs, Stroud 6 TDs for Houston and AR has even missed a game. Both are pretty even regarding INTs = AR has 1, Stroud 0 so that is a push. In our game at Houston, AR outplayed Stroud in the 1st half before leaving and we won. I would say it is pretty even so far.

If you’d told me before the season that through 4 games that AR would only have 1 INT, I’d said you were drinking too much, 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, smittywerb said:

Yeah, Stroud and AR will grow to be winners, but they will win in their own respective ways.  It’s exciting to see because they’re both in AFC AND AFC South.  Stroud will most likely beat you with his arm and short runs while AR will be multi-dimensional.  Both are good. 
 

As far as Young, I don’t know what to think.  He’s struggling.  I think he has the talent but idk if it’s him adjusting to the game or his coach, or both.  It sucks because I was looking forward to watching these 3 QBs grow this year.  So far it’s just been AR and Stroud wowing people while Young is not having a good time.  I at least thought Stroud would be the one to struggle because he has a defensive HC and the Texans are lacking talent, but he’s actually looked the best.

Stroud has looked much better the last two games than the first two. That is for sure. That said, I am surprised as well. 
 

but it is still very very early to render judgement on either of these 3 QBs. Year 3, then ask me. We’ve seen time and time again rookie one year wonders flame out. Or just become average at best once the game tape catches up to them. The true good ones carry multi-year stints of good or great play. 

[NFLfan]

On 10/1/2023 at 11:07 PM, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Texans did stroud right and got a OC that has QB friendly offense. I have no clue what panthers are doing.

 

Who is the Texans OC?

 

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

It was ARs pocket awareness, and passing that caught the team back up. Granted the first TD was a designed run, he also passed for everything else. I don’t have a problem with designed runs, or scrambling. The thing I love, is AR looks to pass first before running, and did a good job of it vs the rams. He doesn’t just start running when his first read isn’t there, he stays behind the line of scrimmage for as long as he can in order to make a throw. 
 

most of these running QBs are afraid to rely on their arm, and as of week 4, AR is not, and that’s a great sign that he trusts his passing ability. Being so young I expect big improvements in his accuracy over the course of his next 2 off seasons, where he will put most of his work in to become more accurate. He’s grown a lot during the first portion of the season, but where you make big improvements is the off season. 

[NFLfan]

10 hours ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

young is ahead of ar in passing yards

 

Watching both of them play, Richardson is clearly playing better, regardless of the stats.

 

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

If you’d told me before the season that through 4 games that AR would only have 1 INT, I’d said you were drinking too much, 

 

Yep, I think Peyton Manning did too. He said he was hoping that his record for Interceptions by a rookie would be broken this year. I recall thinking that Richardson won't throw it enough to break the record. I think Richardson is playing well and does not look lost out there. He shows poise.

 

[RollerColt]

24 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Who is the Texans OC?

 

Bobby Slowik. 

[RollerColt]

It's way too early, but just for the sake of being dumb and overreacting I'd say CJ is obviously looking the best so far, while Young is looking the worst. 

 

BUT, Young is possibly still injured so who knows...

 

I think Richardson is going to continue to play his own style and forge a different path than Stroud, and that's okay. 

 

Rejoice Texans fans, O'Brien can no longer hurt you. They just might have finally figured football out enough to have some sustainable success for a while. The AFC South might be in trouble. 

 

TLDR: At the quarter mark Stroud is doing great, Richardson is fun to watch, and Young is struggling. 

[Mitch Connors]

I love AR so far but saying he's played 1.5 less games than the other 2 rookies is not a feather in his cap.

If this trend continues to the end of the year, I would 1000000% rather have 17 games of Stroud than 9 games of AR. He may be amazing but if he can't stay on the field it's irrelevant. 

[RollerColt]

5 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

I love AR so far but saying he's played 1.5 less games than the other 2 rookies is not a feather in his cap.

If this trend continues to the end of the year, I would 1000000% rather have 17 games of Stroud than 9 games of AR. He may be amazing but if he can't stay on the field it's irrelevant. 

I got absolutely trashed on Reddit for wanting Stroud and Richardson over Young. 

 

I'll die on my hill and say I'd rather have 9 games of AR over 17 with Young. 

[Mitch Connors]

1 minute ago, RollerColt said:

I got absolutely trashed on Reddit for wanting Stroud and Richardson over Young. 

 

I'll die on my hill and say I'd rather have 9 games of AR over 17 with Young. 

Really? So to extrapolate that out youd take 9 years of AR over 17 years of Stroud? Based on what you've seen?

No way I believe that.

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

I love AR so far but saying he's played 1.5 less games than the other 2 rookies is not a feather in his cap.

If this trend continues to the end of the year, I would 1000000% rather have 17 games of Stroud than 9 games of AR. He may be amazing but if he can't stay on the field it's irrelevant. 

I doubt that will be the ratio, Stroud could easily get injured taking the hits he takes. Then what would you say? I hope both stay healthy. AR's injury was a fluke.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

I got absolutely trashed on Reddit for wanting Stroud and Richardson over Young. 

 

I'll die on my hill and say I'd rather have 9 games of AR over 17 with Young. 

It is early, we will see. When Ryan Leaf was throwing cannons and started 2-0 and Peyton looked like Jeff George out of the gate, most Colts fans were saying - I wish they would have taken Leaf. That didn't age well. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[RollerColt]

19 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

Really? So to extrapolate that out youd take 9 years of AR over 17 years of Stroud? Based on what you've seen?

No way I believe that.

If within those 9 years we won a Super Bowl with AR, yes. Yes I would. 

 

That's just my stupid take and opinion though. It means nothing. Young could ball out the rest of the year and win offensive rookie of the year. 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

1 hour ago, NFLfan said:

 

Watching both of them play, Richardson is clearly playing better, regardless of the stats.

 

 

Yep, I think Peyton Manning did too. He said he was hoping that his record for Interceptions by a rookie would be broken this year. I recall thinking that Richardson won't throw it enough to break the record. I think Richardson is playing well and does not look lost out there. He shows poise.

 

Richardson has surprised but that shouldn't be the scale to judge other rookie QBs at this point.

 

What Young goes through is normal for every rookie QB, even for a good one. For A team that traded #1 WR and draft picks to draft him, after trading league's #1 RB the previous year, that doesn't have any explosive player, Young also is going through ups and downs but it's normal on a rookie year.

 

Richardson is very different for sure... no wonder he didn't want to play anymore in college after just 13 games 

[#12.]

Stroud will be top level.  You could probably name a dozen QBs who were top 10 picks from recent years that Stroud already looks better than, like at any point in their careers.   

 

Richardson still has a lot of work to do to become a top level QB, but everyone knew that going in.  So far, so good.

 

It's way too early to say anything definitive about Young.

[compuls1v3]

13 hours ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

young is ahead of ar in passing yards

AR has only finished ONE game thus far.  I would say that is to be expected.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is early, we will see. When Ryan Leaf was throwing cannons and started 2-0 and Peyton looked like Jeff George out of the gate, most Colts fans were saying - I wish they would have taken Leaf. That didn't age well. 

I remember those days and I was one if those questioning if we selected the correct QB. Then the wheels fell off of Leaf

[Indyfan4life]

The fact we’re getting national media attention and Richardson is being praised constantly says something about the kid. Get JT back and another WR that can consistently get open, and this team is gonna be damn good on offense. 

[RollerColt]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is early, we will see. When Ryan Leaf was throwing cannons and started 2-0 and Peyton looked like Jeff George out of the gate, most Colts fans were saying - I wish they would have taken Leaf. That didn't age well. 

I was just a kid. But I was all in on Manning before we even drafted him. The Smoky Mountains were my all time favorite vacation area, and by '98 I pretty much loved everything Tennessee including the Volunteers lol. Even wanted to move down there at that period of my life. 

 

Needless to say I didn't care or pay attention to Leaf.  But again I was just a kid. I didn't know any better at the time, but I'm so glad we chose Peyton. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Young QB always have trouble with zone to start their careers. But for these two to be at the top here in msn coverage. I expect more zone defenses against these two.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

33 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Young QB always have trouble with zone to start their careers. But for these two to be at the top here in msn coverage. I expect more zone defenses against these two.

 

 

The word "easily" is false. If Stroud is "easily" the best, why did we go into his house and blow them out. AR also outplayed him in the 1st half. Interesting. 

[Moosejawcolt]

6 hours ago, smittywerb said:

Couple notes here so I’ll put them in bullet points:

 

- say what you want about Reich, but HE chose Young.  They gave up what they gave to go get HIM.  So if Young is failing, Reich plays a part in that too.  He took on that responsibility to coach him up and so far he’s failing.  Ryans and Shane has their QBs looking like future stars.  And those Reich stats are misleading because anyone can look good with Luck and when comparing his best years to previous years, remember who his coaches were.  You could mention Arians but I didn’t like what he was doing with luck.  He had him launching it taking big hits with a crap oline.  Regarding wentz, we saw what he looked like when the run game was stopped.

 

- agree about AR staying healthy, I think he’ll learn.  His runs last game weren’t as physical, but moreso opportunistic.  And he got hurt because his +300lb OL stepped on him but he shook it off.  He’ll learn.  
 

- as far as his package, that’s his package.  He’s good because one of his talents is his athletic ability.  You can’t separate his athletic ability from his production or how he looks because that’s what makes him special.  And agree, if the throwing improves he’ll definitely be the better QB out of all 3.

 

- I was definitely on the stroud train before we got Shane, then I was ok with either stroud or AR because I trusted he can develop whoever we pick.  When it comes to Stroud vs AR, I think it’s preference.  While stroud is and will be the better passer, AR can beat you with his arm and legs.  Both will be very good if everything works out, it’s all going to depend on how both teams build.  

We don't know if Reich chose Young and I would say he didn't. I bet it was a pick by the GM and owner as Reich was just fired by the Colts. I was on record as saying I really think Reich favored Richardson and even Stroud over Young and it may eventually come out. Reich played the position and he himsefl  is a big man. I dont think he was really in on Young as I believe he does not fit Frank's qb type and saw him as eventually getting hurt and not lasting in the NFL. I think it is way to soon to evaluated any of these guys in terms of if they will pan out and who is in the lead. I have watched Richardson and I will say it again. What impresses me the most about him is this. He is the most athletic qb I have ever seen that tries to throw 1st and run 2nd. 

[smittywerb]

19 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

We don't know if Reich chose Young and I would say he didn't. I bet it was a pick by the GM and owner as Reich was just fired by the Colts. I was on record as saying I really think Reich favored Richardson and even Stroud over Young and it may eventually come out. Reich played the position and he himsefl  is a big man. I dont think he was really in on Young as I believe he does not fit Frank's qb type and saw him as eventually getting hurt and not lasting in the NFL. I think it is way to soon to evaluated any of these guys in terms of if they will pan out and who is in the lead. I have watched Richardson and I will say it again. What impresses me the most about him is this. He is the most athletic qb I have ever seen that tries to throw 1st and run 2nd. 

you can say what you want, but I’m using franks own words:  https://www.nfl.com/news/panthers-frank-reich-didn-t-need-convincing-on-bryce-young-when-you-watch-the-ta

 

Now we can debate all day if he meant that or he’s just saying what he’s being told to, because both are plausible.  But if I remember correctly, when the sides were flipped, people wanted to also blame Ballard for listening to Reich about Wentz.  So if we’re going to call it something, call it straight down the middle.
 

But we can’t debate that so far he has failed in Charlotte, even if it’s too early, because he has.  One coach has his qb top 5 in stats as a rookie, another has the rawest qb of the draft looking like he belongs, and the third coach is calling timeouts because he’s calling plays for a player that’s not even in the game lol.  Also, If he’s a QB whisperer, then he should be able to make it happen.  

 

His head is already being called for lol.  I lurk the Panthers forums just to see what they’re saying and they sound just like us when we had him. 

[Colt.45]

2 hours ago, #12. said:

Stroud will be top level.  You could probably name a dozen QBs who were top 10 picks from recent years that Stroud already looks better than, like at any point in their careers.   

 

Richardson still has a lot of work to do to become a top level QB, but everyone knew that going in.  So far, so good.

 

It's way too early to say anything definitive about Young.

This summarizes it all excellently after the first quarter of the season.

 

Frank Reich needs to be very careful is all i'll add to this

[Colt.45]

AR is doing exactly what Steichen wants from his offense. 

 

 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

3 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

you can say what you want, but I’m using franks own words:  https://www.nfl.com/news/panthers-frank-reich-didn-t-need-convincing-on-bryce-young-when-you-watch-the-ta

 

Now we can debate all day if he meant that or he’s just saying what he’s being told to, because both are plausible.  But if I remember correctly, when the sides were flipped, people wanted to also blame Ballard for listening to Reich about Wentz.  So if we’re going to call it something, call it straight down the middle.
 

But we can’t debate that so far he has failed in Charlotte, even if it’s too early, because he has.  One coach has his qb top 5 in stats as a rookie, another has the rawest qb of the draft looking like he belongs, and the third coach is calling timeouts because he’s calling plays for a player that’s not even in the game lol.  Also, If he’s a QB whisperer, then he should be able to make it happen.  

 

His head is already being called for lol.  I lurk the Panthers forums just to see what they’re saying and they sound just like us when we had him. 

What is he going to say,  I hate  the pick!?? It is like with Trey Lance. There were reports that Shannahan wanted Jones and was convinced by the GM to take Trey Lance.  Thene   reports surfaced  after the drat that   Shannahan wanted Jones and he  was like of course he said he wanted Lance. Well,  now it has come out and I think even reported by Rappaport and other guys that yes he wanted Jones. I go by the eye test. It is like Ballard. I don't think he was ever in on Young. You look at his drafts and how he covets physical traits,  but yet he is going to take a player at the most important position at 5 10 weighing 190 pounds stuffed with protein powder??   I just didn't see it!1

[smittywerb]

9 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

What is he going to say,  I hate  the pick!?? It is like with Trey Lance. There were reports that Shannahan wanted Jones and was convinced by the GM to take Trey Lance.  Thene   reports surfaced  after the drat that   Shannahan wanted Jones and he  was like of course he said he wanted Lance. Well,  now it has come out and I think even reported by Rappaport and other guys that yes he wanted Jones. I go by the eye test. It is like Ballard. I don't think he was ever in on Young. You look at his drafts and how he covets physical traits,  but yet he is going to take a player at the most important position at 5 10 weighing 190 pounds stuffed with protein powder??   I just didn't see it!1

I agree with that, neither of us know until stuff hits the fan.  But what doesn’t make sense to me is that he would take a job and can’t even choose his own QB.  Then add in the fact that he’s hell bent on playcalling, why wouldn’t he want to choose his own QB?  
 

Either way, he has a job to do and he’s not good at it right now.  Whether he wanted him or not.  if we’re going to blame Ballard also for the wentz trade, then by your logic we need blame Frank for what’s going with his team.