AR vs Young vs Stroud vs Levis

[chad72]

53 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Week 14:

 

Young: 13/36, 137: 0 TD, 0 INT, Sack 4, RTG 48

Stroud: 10/23 91, 0 TD, 0 INT, Sack 4, RTG 54.8

AR:  NA

Levis:  23/38, 327; 1TD, 1 INT, Sack 1, RTG 86.2

 

O'Connell: 21/32 171, 0 TD, 1 INT, Sack 4, RTG 66

 

Stroud should be N/A as well, given the concussion in Week 14. Plus, he went against a pass D that had given up just 3.1 yards per play across 2 back-to-back weeks, something really unreal nowadays, that D's performance is totally lost in its W-L record, and they have shut down some of the best QBs in the league between Herbert, Mahomes, Allen etc.. Stroud also has had a pattern of adapting in games and coming back to do his best work in the second half - vs Bucs, vs Bengals, vs Cardinals etc. with enough of a sample space there. Because if only 1 half were taken, Levis' numbers would be average.

 

So, truly the only comparison is Young and Levis for week 14

 

Young is being ruined there with the Panthers. It becomes a very hard sell for a HC next season for several reasons. Levis had his best growth moment by far on the road. 

[shasta519]

10 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

All I am saying you said Texans got dell. Well we got downs too. So Ballard didn’t fail to get a WR. You seemed to say there Ballard failed while Texans didn’t. That’s not the case because they were taken very close to each other.

 

But that's kind of a point on its own. I really like Downs, but I would also say Dell is a better WR/playmaker. He looks the part of a potential PBer, whereas Downs seems like a good slot WR.

 

The Colts seem to get guys that are one tier below and that's even more reason for them not to stand pat at WR. 

[DougDew]

50 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Stroud should be N/A as well, given the concussion in Week 14. Plus, he went against a pass D that had given up just 3.1 yards per play across 2 back-to-back weeks, something really unreal nowadays, that D's performance is totally lost in its W-L record, and they have shut down some of the best QBs in the league between Herbert, Mahomes, Allen etc.. Stroud also has had a pattern of adapting in games and coming back to do his best work in the second half - vs Bucs, vs Bengals, vs Cardinals etc. with enough of a sample space there. Because if only 1 half were taken, Levis' numbers would be average.

 

So, truly the only comparison is Young and Levis for week 14

 

Young is being ruined there with the Panthers. It becomes a very hard sell for a HC next season for several reasons. Levis had his best growth moment by far on the road. 

All stats need context....always.  I'll let the reader do that.

 

And maybe it was Young who ruined the Panthers, or maybe Young doesn't have more impact than a 5th round rookie.  I guess it depends on what a person wants to see.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Something with stroud against jets is that was one of the first times he played an elite defense.  Just something I noticed.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

All stats need context....always.  I'll let the reader do that.

 

And maybe it was Young who ruined the Panthers, or maybe Young doesn't have more impact than a 5th round rookie.  I guess it depends on what a person wants to see.

As bad as that panthers team is they should have still at least seen flashes with young. I know there is other things within that organization that is a mess but it does not look like he can lift team mates.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

 

But that's kind of a point on its own. I really like Downs, but I would also say Dell is a better WR/playmaker. He looks the part of a potential PBer, whereas Downs seems like a good slot WR.

 

The Colts seem to get guys that are one tier below and that's even more reason for them not to stand pat at WR. 

It’s clear why. Dell had his franchise QB throwing to him. Downs has not. Don’t forget that.

[chad72]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

All stats need context....always.  I'll let the reader do that.

 

And maybe it was Young who ruined the Panthers, or maybe Young doesn't have more impact than a 5th round rookie.  I guess it depends on what a person wants to see.

 

It is still early to tell with Young. Right now, they are still dusting off Reich's playbook with variations, I would have to guess. It is too hard to incorporate 20 new plays every week that a lot of young and vet folks never had to work on in TC, so I have to anticipate the ceiling of that offense is already capped in that sense, on top of Young's limitations.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

He should just dig up the tape of Andrew Luck.

 

 

[Boondoggle]

13 hours ago, chad72 said:

Here’s the thing I’m most worried about, Ballard. While the Titans drafted A J Brown, we felt what we had was good enough then. I’m hoping he realizes he needs to get more help for AR because I see the Jaguars getting Kirk, Ridley, Engram etc., Texans drafting Tank Dell and pretty soon more help for Stroud, and similar things I expect from Titans beyond Hopkins. Ballard has been the consistent stubborn one that I hope changes because he has to, that’s when AR can be very good, and doesn’t think what we have is enough.
 

But let’s not overreact to 1 or 2 games of a rookie QB though. Stroud has put up more on the table than any other rookie QB so far. The second half of AR against the Rams was stellar, the way Levis’ fourth quarter versus Dolphins was. Thanks to Bradley, Rams won in OT, while Titans punched the Dolphins in the mouth and won. So the W can distract.  

I'm not overreacting.  Already said prior in this thread I believe that it's gonna take a few years to have an idea of what's what with this class.  But I know quality when I see it.  In that game last night Tua was out there benefitting from talent and top scheme.  Levis meanwhile was overcoming false starts, holding, dropped passes, etc and still got it done.  He could get injured (Levis is a big time injury risk I think in how he runs to contact) but overall that's a QB who is angry when his drives stall.  Angry.

 

That collision with him and Ramsey gives me hope.  Not that I ever wish for anyone to be injured.  But that over time Levis will be his own worst enemy in terms of being available.

 

Back to AR the goal in this draft has to be to double down on him by loading explosive threats in this offense.  Not stacking the offense with big targets who can win contested catches.  Explosive play ability.  Field stretchers.  Plural.  I'd draft one WR in the first round, options of which are plentiful, and another mid rounds who has some real juice as a depth field stretcher.  Let 11 leave in FA and spend that money on the defense at a spot of need instead.

[husker61]

There is a lot of talk about what players a qb has on offense and what the defenses are against him, but all these things change for every team week to week. The first time the colts played Tenn they ran the ball with ease, second time couldn’t run. Tenn killed the colts running the ball last week, this week had a hard time running the ball. It is a league of any given day any one can win. 
 

a really good qb will elevate their team even without really good players around them. Probably the only position that can make that kind of impact and why it is the most important.

[husker61]

4 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

I'm not overreacting.  Already said prior in this thread I believe that it's gonna take a few years to have an idea of what's what with this class.  But I know quality when I see it.  In that game last night Tua was out there benefitting from talent and top scheme.  Levis meanwhile was overcoming false starts, holding, dropped passes, etc and still got it done.  He could get injured (Levis is a big time injury risk I think in how he runs to contact) but overall that's a QB who is angry when his drives stall.  Angry.

 

I couldn’t have said it any better!!

[PRnum1]

6 hours ago, DougDew said:

Week 14:

 

Young: 13/36, 137: 0 TD, 0 INT, Sack 4, RTG 48

Stroud: 10/23 91, 0 TD, 0 INT, Sack 4, RTG 54.8

AR:  NA

Levis:  23/38, 327; 1TD, 1 INT, Sack 1, RTG 86.2

 

O'Connell: 21/32 171, 0 TD, 1 INT, Sack 4, RTG 66

Wow ! those are great numbers for Levis.

 

He is developing very nicely.

 

Meanwhile lets check in on AR's development

 

[GwinnettColt]

3 hours ago, PRnum1 said:

Wow ! those are great numbers for Levis.

 

He is developing very nicely.

 

Meanwhile lets check in on AR's development

 

 

I wondered about this....right after the fourth pick in the draft.   I do think Stroud will be good for the Texans and I hope the same for Richardson, provided that he can stay healthy next season.  

[ArmchairQB]

For what it’s worth most of Levis stats came on last two drives when Miami basically thought they had won the game.  They were going through the motions until time ran out.   He did very little up to that point.  
 

He definitely has a clutch gene that Titans fans can be excited about but his attitude comes off as very put on due to some perceived slight by the rest of the league.  
 

To me last night was more about Miami completely collapsing defensively.  Vic Fangio and his prevent defense prevented winning.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

16 minutes ago, ArmchairQB said:

For what it’s worth most of Levis stats came on last two drives when Miami basically thought they had won the game.  They were going through the motions until time ran out.   He did very little up to that point.  
 

He definitely has a clutch gene that Titans fans can be excited about but his attitude comes off as very put on due to some perceived slight by the rest of the league.  
 

To me last night was more about Miami completely collapsing defensively.  Vic Fangio and his prevent defense prevented winning.  

It was the last Miami offensive drive. They were content to just punt the ball. Instead of running clock and trying to get a few more points. You don’t do that with more then 2 minutes left in a six point game.

[ArmchairQB]

Agreed my point was Levis performance was skewed by horrible coaching on Miamis part. 

[Rhodelesstraveled]

I think TN found something in Levis.  He has looked elite at times as a rookie.  Not a good sign.  

 

If they had an OL and some WR talent the kid might develop quick.  

 

Everytime I am forced to watch them all I see is Denico Autry killing teams.  

 

Not resigning him was the biggest mistake Ballard made in my view.  

TLaw and Josh Allen did not have games their rookie year that looked like Levis of Stroud.  

[chad72]

1 hour ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

I think TN found something in Levis.  He has looked elite at times as a rookie.  Not a good sign.  

 

If they had an OL and some WR talent the kid might develop quick.  

 

Everytime I am forced to watch them all I see is Denico Autry killing teams.  

 

Not resigning him was the biggest mistake Ballard made in my view.  

 

TLaw and Josh Allen did not have games their rookie year that looked like Levis of Stroud.  

 

Josh Allen was banged up and missed a few games like AR, Burrow, Stafford etc. , so it is hard to gain any ground while on the sidelines. We should know. 

 

TLaw - 2 words, Urban Meyer and the stain that was left on that team in Year 1. Doug Pederson was the best thing that happened to him.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Saw this on Twitter this morning. Richardson is so good. Look how spread out the offense is leaving our  skill players wide open. Going to be fun to get him back next year. Just a reminder to everyone how good he was in very limited time. It’s easy to forget.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

23 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Saw this on Twitter this morning. Richardson is so good. Look how spread out the offense is leaving our  skill players wide open. Going to be fun to get him back next year. Just a reminder to everyone how good he was in very limited time. It’s easy to forget.

 

 

AR will have some great moments next year. I can't wait. I see no reason why AR won't be good unless he gets a serious injury. These highlights alone show he played good.

[Dingus McGirt]

12 hours ago, ArmchairQB said:

Agreed my point was Levis performance was skewed by horrible coaching on Miamis part. 

He took the bull by the horns.

[RollerColt]

2 hours ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

I think TN found something in Levis.  He has looked elite at times as a rookie.  Not a good sign.  

 

If they had an OL and some WR talent the kid might develop quick.  

 

Everytime I am forced to watch them all I see is Denico Autry killing teams.  

 

Not resigning him was the biggest mistake Ballard made in my view.  

TLaw and Josh Allen did not have games their rookie year that looked like Levis of Stroud.  

You think every mistake Ballard has made is the biggest mistake. 

[chad72]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Saw this on Twitter this morning. Richardson is so good. Look how spread out the offense is leaving our  skill players wide open. Going to be fun to get him back next year. Just a reminder to everyone how good he was in very limited time. It’s easy to forget.

 

 

 

The NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" Janet Jackson song.   

 

Titans - I despise them for what they did to Luck and despise them for what they did to AR. With Vrabel, they are an extension of the Patriots that denied us all those years, have always been a chippy bunch from the Jeff Fisher days. So, every time, I will root for the Titans to fail, more so than Jacksonville or Houston.

 

Winning the division will be the best comeback AR can have. With him, and a few pieces added, I definitely think we can.

[RollerColt]

8 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

The NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" Janet Jackson song.   

 

Titans - I despise them for what they did to Luck and despise them for what they did to AR. With Vrabel, they are an extension of the Patriots that denied us all those years, have always been a chippy bunch from the Jeff Fisher days. So, every time, I will root for the Titans to fail, more so than Jacksonville or Houston.

 

Winning the division will be the best comeback AR can have. With him, and a few pieces added, I definitely think we can.

Don't forget they also injured Manning's neck... 

 

And had Greg Williams as their DC from 1997-2000 and apparently had a bounty on Manning during those days. 

 

I hate them. I hate them. I hate them. 

[shasta519]

26 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Don't forget they also injured Manning's neck... 

 

And had Greg Williams as their DC from 1997-2000 and apparently had a bounty on Manning during those days. 

 

I hate them. I hate them. I hate them. 

 

That was WAS that hurt Manning's neck I believe.

[Rhodelesstraveled]

TN has always played physically because they are built for it on D.  Thankfully, they do not know how to draft OL and WR. 

 

The thing I worry about with AR is the shoulder, and it is his throwing shoulder.  Newton's career ended because of it, and so did Brees eventually.  Brees cannot even throw a football now.  Brees did not have the injury his rookie year, but AR did.  To me, this limits his longevity.  

 

It certainly curtailed Newton.  That is my worry.  

[shasta519]

23 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

It’s clear why. Dell had his franchise QB throwing to him. Downs has not. Don’t forget that.

 

But if Downs had his "franchise QB" throwing to him all year, he wouldn't have better stats because they wouldn't be throwing as much as they do with Minshew.

 

AR's injury has been a huge boost to both MPJ and Downs from an opportunity/target standpoint. 

[Stephen]

On 12/12/2023 at 11:38 AM, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Something with stroud against jets is that was one of the first times he played an elite defense.  Just something I noticed.

To be fair most his top weapons  were injured

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

18 minutes ago, Stephen said:

To be fair most his top weapons  were injured

I know. It’s just something to watch for.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

22 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

But if Downs had his "franchise QB" throwing to him all year, he wouldn't have better stats because they wouldn't be throwing as much as they do with Minshew.

 

AR's injury has been a huge boost to both MPJ and Downs from an opportunity/target standpoint. 

Pretty sure at one point downs had more yards then dell. Then he got injured and hasn’t been the same since. Whether that’s the injury or a rookie wall I don’t know. I just posted that video above. Downs will have more yards with Richardson despite maybe not getting as many passes because Richardson has a big arm and the offense is much more spread out. So yes less targets could result in more yards. Richardson isn’t even running that much.

[chad72]

49 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

That was WAS that hurt Manning's neck I believe.

 

Yes, it was Washington.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Yes, it was Washington.

 

So it WAS WAS eh

[Rhodelesstraveled]

Here is a dot plot on the QBs right now.  

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Ogletree and Richardson has such good chemistry. I can’t wait until they play together again.

[GoColts8818]

On 12/13/2023 at 11:23 AM, shasta519 said:

 

That was WAS that hurt Manning's neck I believe.

Yeah I remember that game well.  Freeney had a sack wiped early for “roughing the passer” when he didn’t do anything and the Washington pretty much ripped Manning’s head off and nothing.  It was so obvious even the tv guys were like are you kidding me?