AR vs Young vs Stroud vs Levis

[krunk]

20 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Reich hired a lot of experienced coaches but they are so old school.  He should of hired a bright offensive mind for OC and give up play calling.

I'm pretty sure he probably had AR or Stroud in mind in terms of who the ideal fit for his system was. Stroud specifically is somebody you put with a Jim Caldwell. Keeping it real we all know the typical QB Frank likes for his system. And that's not Young.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

I'm pretty sure he probably had AR or Stroud in mind in terms of who the ideal fit for his system was. Stroud specifically is somebody you put with a Jim Caldwell. Keeping it real we all know the typical QB Frank likes for his system. And that's not Young.

Well if that’s true he let the owner and GM pick his QB and his future.

[krunk]

7 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Well if that’s true he let the owner and GM pick his QB and his future.

It's kind of obvious the owner had significant influence on the pick. I don't think Frank would pick Young on his own with no influence from ownership. 

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, krunk said:

It's kind of obvious the owner had significant influence on the pick. I don't think Frank would pick Young on his own with no influence from ownership. 

 

How come no one was talking about this in May? Why is it the owner's pick now that Young is struggling? 

 

By the way, it's too early to decide that any player is struggling, even though he hasn't looked great. But if Bryce Young looks like an MVP in two years, no one will remember this conversation when everyone was blaming the owner for a bad pick...

[stitches]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

How come no one was talking about this in May? Why is it the owner's pick now that Young is struggling? 

 

By the way, it's too early to decide that any player is struggling, even though he hasn't looked great. But if Bryce Young looks like an MVP in two years, no one will remember this conversation when everyone was blaming the owner for a bad pick...

To be fair there were some reports that Tapper wanted Bryce Young, but there were also reports conflicting that so... hard to tell. 

 

Agreed on it being too early to tell on any of the QBs. Tua got benched for Fitzpatrick several times in his rookie year and looked completely lost, but they got him some weapons and a much better offensive coach and he seems to be doing pretty well today. 

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

To be fair there were some reports that Tapper wanted Bryce Young, but there were also reports conflicting that so... hard to tell. 

 

Agreed on it being too early to tell on any of the QBs. Tua got benched for Fitzpatrick several times in his rookie year and looked completely lost, but they got him some weapons and a much better offensive coach and he seems to be doing pretty well today. 

 

There were all kinds of reports about what the Colts and Jim Irsay wanted, throughout the offseason. Someone all but guaranteed the Colts would take Levis... Seems like a lot of those were dead wrong.

 

And even if Tepper did like Bryce Young, that doesn't necessarily indicate that the HC or GM weren't on the same page. No one was saying 'this is the owner's pick, and it's not going to go well' before this week. 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Colt.45 said:

Yeah, these media pieces are going to keep coming out until Bryce gets good, or the coach gets fired. The media has found something juicy to latch on. Frank had better turn on every trick he knows to get that young man firing quickly. Indy was more patient than Carolina will be

That could be coming.  The pundits/media were very much hyping Bryce Young during the draft season...maybe even the GM of CAR.  Ignoring some physical shortcomings to imply that some other metric he possessed overcame them.  The breakdowns offered by some on this forum told us that Young has neither the strongest arm, fastest foot speed, elite elusiveness, not even elite arm accuracy, etc to overcome other shortcomings.

 

It centered around decision making, leadership, and production.    Neither Brock Purdy or Stetson Bennet were judged by these criteria.  The point being is that once a narrative is set, the waves either take the player to the over hyped world or to the ignore world.

 

Young may be fine, but if he struggles, look for the pundits/GM to latch on to something other than themselves getting it wrong.

[krunk]

50 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

How come no one was talking about this in May? Why is it the owner's pick now that Young is struggling? 

 

By the way, it's too early to decide that any player is struggling, even though he hasn't looked great. But if Bryce Young looks like an MVP in two years, no one will remember this conversation when everyone was blaming the owner for a bad pick...

There were rumors of Tepper liking Bryce Young in April and Reich liking Stroud. There were also others showing Reich liked AR. Rumor of course doesn't make truth, but for me just knowing Frank Reich and the history of all the QBs he has selected for his offense I'm more inclined to believe Tepper let it be known to Fitterer and Reich who he preferred.

 

Yes there are also articles that can be pulled to show they were all in agreement but Reich never lets anyone think he is out of sync with the GM and the owner. Whether Young is doing good or bad I still think he wasn't Reichs first preference. And I'm on record through multiple posts as saying I really like Bryce Young. I do think he will eventually put it together. However I am convinced based on what I know about Reich that a QB that small was likely not Reichs preference. I just doubt Reich makes that pick on his own.

[krunk]

The Panthers owner started interacting with Bryce Young as early as the Superbowl. And yes I know it's still not definitive proof but it an indicator

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just a theory here. Shane Steichen mentioned he pulled his name out of the Carolina job early on. I am beginning to wonder if he was afraid he was going to be forced a QB he didn’t want.

[krunk]

17 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

Well Steichen has said on more than 1 occasion that he can build an O around his signal callers talents. I thought it was Carolina who didn't like Steichen. Steichen offense as far as the plays go isn't much different from Frank. I sort of think Frank was the more familiar face since he used to play QB for them. You would think with Carolinas background using a running QB that Steichen would have been appealing.

[krunk]

just ran across this

 

 

They calling Frank out already

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

22 minutes ago, krunk said:

Well Steichen has said on more than 1 occasion that he can build an O around his signal callers talents. I thought it was Carolina who didn't like Steichen. Steichen offense as far as the plays go isn't much different from Frank. I sort of think Frank was the more familiar face since he used to play QB for them. You would think with Carolinas background using a running QB that Steichen would have been appealing.

After Steichen was hired as colts HC he had a interview where he said he told the other team he wasn’t interested. Seem Steichen turned them down.

[ojsglove]

I think I will stick with our guy.  So far, imo, he is exactly as promised, young, raw, strong, high ceiling.  I love his swagger.  He brings a fire to this team that has been missing for a long time.  

 

It's going to be up to the coaching staff to find a middle ground to how to avoid injuries without dampening his spirit.

 

I actually fell sorry for Young.  After watching the first 2 games, I see the same old Frank, calling the same old vanilla plays. Don't get me wrong, I like Frank, but not as a head coach in the NFL.

[krunk]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

After Steichen was hired as colts HC he had a interview where he said he told the other team he wasn’t interested. Seem Steichen turned them down.

I guess it's possible. The article I read said the interview didn't go well and the Panthers pivoted to Frank Reich who did interview well.

[krunk]

Just now, ojsglove said:

I think I will stick with our guy.  So far, imo, he is exactly as promised, young, raw, strong, high ceiling.  I love his swagger.  He brings a fire to this team that has been missing for a long time.  

 

It's going to be up to the coaching staff to find a middle ground to how to avoid injuries without dampening his spirit.

 

I actually fell sorry for Young.  After watching the first 2 games, I see the same old Frank, calling the same old vanilla plays. Don't get me wrong, I like Frank, but not as a head coach in the NFL.

I will say the Panthers don't have good offensive personnel to go along with also having a bad OL.

[ojsglove]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

I guess it's possible. The article I read said the interview didn't go well and the Panthers pivoted to Frank Reich who did interview well.

Interviews are worthless if you can't produce on the field.  I think we learned that after we hired Frank.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Watch Richardson stick his empty hand out to get the defense going the other way on the second TD. This is stuff vets do.

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

15 minutes ago, krunk said:

I guess it's possible. The article I read said the interview didn't go well and the Panthers pivoted to Frank Reich who did interview well.

The only person I saw say it didn’t go as expected and they decided to go in a different direction was Benjamin Albright. But we did hear it rifht from Steichen himself that he turned them down. I am glad we got him. 

 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

The Panthers owner started interacting with Bryce Young as early as the Superbowl. And yes I know it's still not definitive proof but it an indicator

 

 

That was about the time that everybody on the planet was saying that Bryce Young was so wonderful.  Remember Irsay even saying something about "that guy from Alabama is pretty good."   But, yes, its an indicator.

 

I agree with you, Stroud would seem to be Reich's preference just based on the QBs he reportedly wanted here in IND.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, DougDew said:

That was about the time that everybody on the planet was saying that Bryce Young was so wonderful.  Remember Irsay saying something about "that guy from Alabama being pretty good."   But, yes, its an indicator.

 

I agree with you, Stroud would seem to be Reich's preference just based on the QBs he reportedly wanted here in IND.

I forgot about that. Now it does make me winder if Irsay said that on purpose. There were rumors panthers really liked Ar and were considering him.

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I forgot about that. Now it does make me winder if Irsay said that on purpose. There were rumors panthers really liked Ar and were considering him.

IIRC, there was a time where CAR liked them all.  Seemed to rotate amongst the three. 

 

I highly doubt that CAR picks Young because Irsay said he liked him better.  They have the first pick, and you would pick who you like.  Maybe there is some trade down strategy that would end up luckily working out, but if CAR liked a QB over the others, you just pick him #1.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

All I know is stroud and Richardson have both showed they look like the real deal. Not so much Young. I am more just shocked that Younf seems to be having the biggest adjustment.

[DougDew]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

All I know is stroud and Richardson have both showed they look like the real deal. Not so much Young. I am more just shocked that Younf seems to be having the biggest adjustment.

From what I have seen, and I have seen both games, Young is throwing into coverage, looks indecisive, and takes sacks.  Mentally just not there.  It seems like its pure QB play and not play calling.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

From what I have seen, and I have seen both games, Young is throwing into coverage, looks indecisive, and takes sacks.  Mentally just not there.  It seems like its pure QB play and not play calling.

Yeah you can separate the two. Something just doesn’t look right with Young. I mean you can tell he stroud and Richardson are in control. They might have moments they struggle but they don’t look overwhelmed. I hope for young’s sake he figures it out. He is going to need better weapons too.

[ojsglove]

Same old Frank

[GoColts8818]

6 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

Wait until they find out about Hines (or the Panthers version of him) up the middle on third and one EVERY TIME.  

[krunk]

They actually think Frank is going to hand the play calling duties to Brown at some point. Lol! Don't hold your breath Panther Fans

[krunk]

I gotta admit some of these plays where Bryce gets hit just a little bit and the ball comes loose are concerning. Along with other sacks I see him take where the defender barely even touched him and brings him down for the sack

 

 

[compuls1v3]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

Well Steichen has said on more than 1 occasion that he can build an O around his signal callers talents. I thought it was Carolina who didn't like Steichen. Steichen offense as far as the plays go isn't much different from Frank. I sort of think Frank was the more familiar face since he used to play QB for them. You would think with Carolinas background using a running QB that Steichen would have been appealing.

You think Steichen's play calling is like Reich's?  What's similar?

[krunk]

14 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

You think Steichen's play calling is like Reich's?  What's similar?

the offensive system and the playbook is about the same. that is different than the play calls. play calling there is no comparison. Steichen is much better!

[compuls1v3]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

the offensive system is about the same. that is different than the play calls.

Just trying to understand here.  What do you mean by offensive system if play calls are different?  Thanks Krunk.  I'm still learning every day. 

[krunk]

1 hour ago, compuls1v3 said:

Just trying to understand here.  What do you mean by offensive system if play calls are different?  Thanks Krunk.  I'm still learning every day. 

As you know Sirriani was Frank Reich offensive coordinator with the Colts. Sirriani takes Franks scheme and plays to Philly and hires Steichen. All of them are Norv Turner disciples who learned from Norv in San Diego. Norv Turner used the Air Coryal system which is based on vertical passing, emphasis on running the football and some other concepts. And Frank does a lot of RPO stuff that maybe Norv didn't do. The plays they like to use are built around these core principles.

 

Steichen as coordinator for Sirriani implemented in Philadelphia what Sirriani learned from Frank Reich. That's why I said the offensive system, blocking schemes, calls, words, and plays in the playbook are very similar.  This is another reason Ballard chose Steichen bc we wouldn't have to force our guys to learn an entirely new offense. There is carryover from Reich to Steichen.

 

Where things differ are the plays that Steichen likes to use from the playbook probably are vastly different from the ones Reich would choose from a Play Calling stand point. Steichen I'm sure has his own approach and spin on things then how Frank would do it even though they both have access to similar stuff.

[krunk]

They don't even let Bryce run the QB sneaks to pick up a first down. They use Andy Dalton for that. Frank claims it's to limit his exposure. He cites how Taysom Hill is used and what he did with Jacoby. Problem is we were using Jacoby like Taysom Hill in those situations at the time when we did it. When has Andy Dalton ever been considered a trick QB? He never did it with Matt Ryan. Matt did his own sneaks and so did Carson Wentz. I do think Frank sees him as too small.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/frank-reich-playing-andy-dalton-can-limit-bryce-youngs-exposure-in-short-yardage

[coltsfan_canada]

8 hours ago, krunk said:

I gotta admit some of these plays where Bryce gets hit just a little bit and the ball comes loose are concerning. Along with other sacks I see him take where the defender barely even touched him and brings him down for the sack

 

 

 

Bryce n Stroud looks like high school kids infront of NFL D except AR however that toughness of AR hopefully does not cost him career.

[2006Coltsbestever]

AR was clearly the best out of the 3 this week. His 2 TD runs set the tone early and he made some good passes to keep drives alive. The game was pretty much over at halftime. Unfortunately he had to leave the game. Stroud threw for a lot of yards but he threw 47 times and his yards were meaningless in the 4th because they were so far behind. We also went prevent in the 4th Qtr. He also had a key fumble early in the game that led to a score for us. Young just flat out look awful and I thought he would be the best out of the 3. AR, most importantly got a win, the other 2 are 0-2.

[krunk]

9 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Watch Richardson stick his empty hand out to get the defense going the other way on the second TD. This is stuff vets do.

 

 

I do think we will be better than people think. I'm just itching to get Woods and Ogletree back. Along with a trio of JT, Moss, and Hull. The line is starting to block well and that running attack is going to be hard to stop including AR 5 legs too. Play Action and RPO game will be wide open. AR 5 you know is going to extend several 3rd downs with his legs alone.

[Jackie Daytona]

On 9/11/2023 at 4:23 PM, smittywerb said:

 

I’d give him $18-$19 mill/year.  Names like amari cooper, Mike Williams, DJ Moore, Keenan Allen are getting $20 mill/year and I don’t think he’s in their level.  Out of those names I just said, you think he should get more than them?  Do you think his “production” is better than theirs?  Out of those names, the only one I’d say is debatable is Mike Williams.  But the other ones, I’d happily do a straight up swap.

 

once again, I agree his production is good, but not WR1 good.  You can’t just point to his stats and say “look he’s a WR1”.  Sorry, what field does he stretch?  Does he command a corner AND a safety because he might score on you at any moment?  No to both of those questions.  If he doesn’t play like an alpha receiver then he’s not one, no matter what the stats say.  Just to show you how much stats don’t tell the story, when Carson wentz was here one thing wentz-apologist said was “well looking at his stats he had a good season” but did he?  Nope.  Look, I’m a homer just like you, but we can’t give him $20mill or more (depending on the market) if people who are making that can do more than him.  To be honest, I’d be willing to give him $20mill but if he wants any more than that I’m fine with him walking.   Now I agree, if there’s no one else out there or we don’t have the draft capital to get us one then yeah, we just have to pay him because we have to have someone.

Hell likely get just as much, and more than likely more than, those guys just because he is getting his deal chronologically after theirs.  That's how it works...constant creep higher and higher 

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Yeah you can separate the two. Something just doesn’t look right with Young. I mean you can tell he stroud and Richardson are in control. They might have moments they struggle but they don’t look overwhelmed. I hope for young’s sake he figures it out. He is going to need better weapons too.

Perhaps since Bryce had the reputation of being the most NFL ready, Frank didn't scale back the play book as much as other coaches and is asking him to do too much. 

 

I've seen a stat that shows that he has the most time to throw than the others...but having watched the games, it seems like he's having to extend the play a lot....which adds to the snap-to-release calculation...because of Oline problems.  The other rookie QBs may just be a bit better in processing when on the move than Young is at this point.   Just saying that Young looks like his struggles are on him more than play calling...or else he is being asked to run the offense like a veteran because of his pre-draft evaluations..

 

As far as CAR fans asking about who will call plays, that's probably driven by attachment to Reddit forums and such, because no way would anybody make a play calling connection after only two games without already having some bias built into what they are seeing.