AR vs Young vs Stroud vs Levis

[DougDew]

7 hours ago, krunk said:

Steichen as coordinator for Sirriani implemented in Philadelphia what Sirriani learned from Frank Reich. That's why I said the offensive system, blocking schemes, calls, words, and plays in the playbook are very similar.  This is another reason Ballard chose Steichen bc we wouldn't have to force our guys to learn an entirely new offense. There is carryover from Reich to Steichen.

Which is probably why SS turned down attention from CAR.  He's got a head start on things by coaching players Reich just coached.  Not that SS was holding out for the Colts job, but it always felt to me like SS to the Colts was going to happen the moment Frank was fired.  There wasn't much suspense with that coaching search for me.

[Jackie Daytona]

On 9/12/2023 at 2:48 PM, smittywerb said:

All of what you’re saying might be true but does that make Reggie an alpha dog WR1?  No it doesn’t.  Maybe I need to define WR1.  A WR1 is a player who can do things very well in all facets of being a wide receiver (maybe besides blocking).  That means they have good hands, good route running, good downfield presence (which includes speed and ability to separate downfield).  not just one or two of those things.  
 

those are things you need to be an alpha WR.  Being an alpha WR means that you command so much attention, the defense needs to know where you are at all times because any play you can break them for a touchdown or huge gain.  Now I love Pittman, but he’s not that.  Yeah, the defense can adjust to him but they don’t have to change the entire defense which allows them to do what they want.  Like let’s be real, the jags stacked the box pretty much the entire game and we could not beat them deep not once.  I’m sorry, his stats do look good, but it isn’t the entire story.  
 

I hope we keep him because he’s a VERY good WR2 but I also hope we go out and get a MHJ or an alpha receiver in FA or trade.  Idk, maybe Pierce will wake up and be our deep threat so Pittman doesn’t have to beat teams deep.  Who knows.

Good definition.... but it's still just YOUR definition.

[Jackie Daytona]

14 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Good video here how Tepper got too involved in the quarterback process for panthers during the draft.

 

 

I haven't watched Florio for years.....but....did he really just whine that NFL teams are being basically "mean" when they trade up to take a guy??!?  Then he blamed trading up for a player partially on that player failing?!?

[DougDew]

17 minutes ago, Jackie Daytona said:

I haven't watched Florio for years.....but....did he really just whine that NFL teams are being basically "mean" when they trade up to take a guy??!?  Then he blamed trading up for a player partially on that player failing?!?

He's saying that trading up for a guy from 9 to 1 puts more pressure and scrutiny on a player than a player who was simply selected number 1 by a team already having that pick.   To the extent that any number 1 pick is viewed as the savior of the franchise, trading up from 9 makes that pressure worse.

[krunk]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Perhaps since Bryce had the reputation of being the most NFL ready, Frank didn't scale back the play book as much as other coaches and is asking him to do too much. 

 

I've seen a stat that shows that he has the most time to throw than the others...but having watched the games, it seems like he's having to extend the play a lot....which adds to the snap-to-release calculation...because of Oline problems.  The other rookie QBs may just be a bit better in processing when on the move than Young is at this point.   Just saying that Young looks like his struggles are on him more than play calling...or else he is being asked to run the offense like a veteran because of his pre-draft evaluations..

 

As far as CAR fans asking about who will call plays, that's probably driven by attachment to Reddit forums and such, because no way would anybody make a play calling connection after only two games without already having some bias built into what they are seeing.

Yeah but their offense is pretty bad. And they have worse personnel at WR than we do along with not much of a running game. Snap to Throw is probably high bc he has no where to go with the football. Some of the complaints could be forum information related but it doesn't take long to determine when something isn't working on a bad offense.

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

Yeah but their offense is pretty bad. And they have worse personnel at WR than we do along with not much of a running game. Snap to Throw is probably high bc he has no where to go with the football. Some of the complaints could be forum information related but it doesn't take long to determine when something isn't working on a bad offense.

Watching that video, Simms basically says that Young isn't passing the eye test.  And he says that Thielen is their #1WR when he would be #3 on most good teams.  I think the fans drilling right past those issues and complaining about Frank's play calling being the problem after two games is directly caused by the momentum gained by internet forums.

 

I agree about snap to throw also being a function of having nowhere to throw the ball, which could be because of scheme as well as talent.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

We can’t forget panthers almost made the playoffs and we’re a .500 team last year.

[RollerColt]

16 hours ago, Superman said:

 

There were all kinds of reports about what the Colts and Jim Irsay wanted, throughout the offseason. Someone all but guaranteed the Colts would take Levis... Seems like a lot of those were dead wrong.

 

And even if Tepper did like Bryce Young, that doesn't necessarily indicate that the HC or GM weren't on the same page. No one was saying 'this is the owner's pick, and it's not going to go well' before this week. 

There's a holy trio of leadership to blame when it comes to football: it's either the coach, the QB, or the owner. 

[Superman]

12 hours ago, krunk said:

They actually think Frank is going to hand the play calling duties to Brown at some point. Lol! Don't hold your breath Panther Fans

 

He said he would, and I hope he does. I'm convinced it would make him a better HC.

[RollerColt]

4 hours ago, krunk said:

They don't even let Bryce run the QB sneaks to pick up a first down. They use Andy Dalton for that. Frank claims it's to limit his exposure. He cites how Taysom Hill is used and what he did with Jacoby. Problem is we were using Jacoby like Taysom Hill in those situations at the time when we did it. When has Andy Dalton ever been considered a trick QB? He never did it with Matt Ryan. Matt did his own sneaks and so did Carson Wentz. I do think Frank sees him as too small.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/frank-reich-playing-andy-dalton-can-limit-bryce-youngs-exposure-in-short-yardage

Yes. Andy Dalton being considered a Taysom Hill type of player now is the most ridiculous thing I've heard... Talk to any Bengals fan about that and see their reaction. 

[Superman]

15 hours ago, krunk said:

The Panthers owner started interacting with Bryce Young as early as the Superbowl. And yes I know it's still not definitive proof but it an indicator

 

 

 

I'm not doubting that Tepper liked him. I mean, Irsay was talking about him in February, right?

 

What I'm saying is that this is the first time I'm saying anyone suggest that the HC and GM weren't all in on Bryce Young, and that this pick was the owner's choice. It seems like a post hoc rationalization to keep blame away from Reich, specifically, now that Bryce Young's play isn't looking great.

[hoosierhawk]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

He said he would, and I hope he does. I'm convinced it would make him a better HC.

Amen.

 

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

Watching that video, Simms basically says that Young isn't passing the eye test.  And he says that Thielen is their #1WR when he would be #3 on most good teams.  I think the fans drilling right past those issues and complaining about Frank's play calling being the problem after two games is directly caused by the moment

 

I agree about snap to throw also being a function of having nowhere to throw the ball, which could be because of scheme as well as talent.

um gained by internet forums.

I and many others have complained about Reich's play calling for the last 3 yrs. He's as creative as a tree stump. Not saying he can't coach but it is my opinion that he spends way too much time on play calling which is certainly not his forte and not enough time coaching so at this stage the jury is still in session as to whether he is a decent coach. Some coaches are quite capable of doing both but it helps your coaching ability if you are a good play caller and Frank is not in my opinion.

[csmopar]

4 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

We can’t forget panthers almost made the playoffs and we’re a .500 team last year.

We weren’t a .500 team last year. 4-13 is no where near .500

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

We weren’t a .500 team last year. 4-13 is no where near .500

I said panthers.  Panthers were 7-10 so a little correction there.

[csmopar]

4 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

We can’t forget panthers almost made the playoffs and we’re a .500 team last year.

 

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I said panthers. 

 

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I said panthers. 

Read above. We’re equals We are. Which leads to assume the Colts are the We being referenced. 
 

Sounds like you needed to use “were” 

[Colt.45]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

We weren’t a .500 team last year. 4-13 is no where near .500

We're versus were. Looks like the poster had an autocorrect

[DougDew]

52 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Amen.

 

I and many others have complained about Reich's play calling for the last 3 yrs. He's as creative as a tree stump. Not saying he can't coach but it is my opinion that he spends way too much time on play calling which is certainly not his forte and not enough time coaching so at this stage the jury is still in session as to whether he is a decent coach. Some coaches are quite capable of doing both but it helps your coaching ability if you are a good play caller and Frank is not in my opinion.

I was not talking about Frank's body of work as a play caller here in IND as witnessed by us over 5 seasons, if that's what drove your response.  I'm talking about two games in CAR from the perspective of CAR fans who blame play calling but are ignorant about IND.....unless they read internet comments.

 

With a bad oline and receivers....acknowledged by Simms...and the possibility that Young was overrated as a pro prospect coming out of college....its hard to say that play calling is the reason the CAR offense is bad over the first two games.  JMO.

 

[Colt.45]

Seeing everything going on in Chicago, it's really instructive how much a young QB needs coaches who collaborate. This Fields thing is going to get Flus fired.

 

Between Flus and Reich, they've got some questions they need to answer

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Seeing everything going on in Chicago, it's really instructive how much a young QB needs coaches who collaborate. This Fields thing is going to get Flus fired.

 

Between Flus and Reich, they've got some questions they need to answer

Have you seen what’s going on with their DC too? Talk about chaos.

[Colt.45]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Have you seen what’s going on with their DC too? Talk about chaos.

Unreal stuff. When it rains in Chicago, apparently it's a tsunami

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, Colt.45 said:

Unreal stuff. When it rains in Chicago, apparently it's a tsunami

The rumors are terrible about him.

[Dingus McGirt]

19 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

All I know is stroud and Richardson have both showed they look like the real deal. Not so much Young. I am more just shocked that Younf seems to be having the biggest adjustment.

Size matters.

[rockywoj]

4 hours ago, csmopar said:

 

 

Read above. We’re equals We are. Which leads to assume the Colts are the We being referenced. 
 

Sounds like you needed to use “were” 

IPhone ALWAYS seems to change were to we’re by default.  I suspect that is what happened, not that he knowingly used the wrong word. 

[csmopar]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

I was not talking about Frank's body of work as a play caller here in IND as witnessed by us over 5 seasons, if that's what drove your response.  I'm talking about two games in CAR from the perspective of CAR fans who blame play calling but are ignorant about IND.....unless they read internet comments.

 

With a bad oline and receivers....acknowledged by Simms...and the possibility that Young was overrated as a pro prospect coming out of college....its hard to say that play calling is the reason the CAR offense is bad over the first two games.  JMO.

 

 Or saying you’re wrong but I watched that game Monday night, throw colts jerseys on the panthers players and I’d swear it’s the same team we had last year and the year before

[csmopar]

59 minutes ago, csmopar said:

 Or saying you’re wrong but I watched that game Monday night, throw colts jerseys on the panthers players and I’d swear it’s the same team we had last year and the year before

*Not saying you’re wrong 

[rockywoj]

Honestly, I think Reich absolutely SUCKS as an offensive play designer.  Like I said, I was at Carolina’s season opener in Atlanta, and I was likely running about 80% correct in calling his unimaginative play calls. Just So happy he’s no longer running the Colts. I swear he still thinks it the 80s in Offensive game style. 

[DougDew]

13 hours ago, csmopar said:

 Or saying you’re wrong but I watched that game Monday night, throw colts jerseys on the panthers players and I’d swear it’s the same team we had last year and the year before

I agree.  I would say a big commonalty is the play of the QB.  Our last two QBs are now out of the NFL....shows the quality there.  I do think Frank's coaching system is outdated, it happens to coaches, but I also believe that part of the problem is CAR's QB too.  The system seems to work with only a certain type/quality of QB.  And needs two dog WRs, something Frank never had here and doesn't have at CAR.  It is odd that the lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball is common to what we had here too.

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I agree.  I would say a big commonalty is the play of the QB.  Our last two QBs are now out of the NFL....shows the quality there.  I do think Frank's coaching system is outdated, it happens to coaches, but I also believe that part of the problem is CAR's QB too.  The system seems to work with only a certain type/quality of QB.

The problem is for Franks QB system to work, you need an OL that can maul the DL every down and I just don’t see that happening in todays NFL. Plus Frank seems to be the type of mold the QB to fit the system, not mold the system to fit the QB’s strengths. No matter who the QB was over those 5-6 years, it was the same plays, same system and honestly that’s the problem in Carolina. 

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, csmopar said:

The problem is for Franks QB system to work, you need an OL that can maul the DL every down and I just don’t see that happening in todays NFL. Plus Frank seems to be the type of mold the QB to fit the system, not mold the system to fit the QB’s strengths. No matter who the QB was over those 5-6 years, it was the same plays, same system and honestly that’s the problem in Carolina. 

I think he wants a mobile-ish QB like Wentz but settled for statues Rivers and Ryan.  If he was not leading the charge for Young, he may not have many plays that he thinks are a good fit for him.  Frank has had a problem molding plays to the QBs strengths, I agree, but part of the problem is that he hasn't had QBs that have very many strengths.  Young has few strengths being a two game rookie.

 

Its odd that Frank took out Young on sneaks and put in Dalton.  He must see something about Young (physicality?) that is limiting....which may be either wise or off-base.

[RollerColt]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I think he wants a mobile-ish QB like Wentz but settled for statues Rivers and Ryan.  If he was not leading the charge for Young, he may not have many plays that he thinks are a good fit for him.  Frank has had a problem molding plays to the QBs strengths, I agree, but part of the problem is that he hasn't had QBs that have very many strengths.  Young has few strengths being a two game rookie.

 

Its odd that Frank took out Young on sneaks and put in Dalton.  He must see something about Young (physicality?) that is limiting....which may be either wise or off-base.

It really makes me wonder about the interview process for hiring a head coach. Did he feel he was a good fit for the team? Or was he simply just wanting a job, regardless of if the GM was on the same page on roster building? I'm sure they talked on end about schemes and philosophies on how they would build the team. Why didn't the GM get the players would fit Reich's scheme? 

 

I always walk into my interviews with the mindset that I'm interviewing my bosses as much as they are interviewing me. If I don't feel the school or administration is a good fit, I politely rescind my interest and move on. 

[DougDew]

44 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

It really makes me wonder about the interview process for hiring a head coach. Did he feel he was a good fit for the team? Or was he simply just wanting a job, regardless of if the GM was on the same page on roster building? I'm sure they talked on end about schemes and philosophies on how they would build the team. Why didn't the GM get the players would fit Reich's scheme? 

 

I always walk into my interviews with the mindset that I'm interviewing my bosses as much as they are interviewing me. If I don't feel the school or administration is a good fit, I politely rescind my interest and move on. 

I agree.  I also think the issue of finding a fit for the organization lies more with the person doing the hiring than the candidate...who wants a job. 

 

I assume the coach presents his philosophy, scheme, etc., and the GM accepts it.  That's why its a two headed problem.  I can't imagine any GM hiring a veteran coach with tape on his play calling and schemes, doesn't already know what those are before he offers the coach the job.  And I'd assume that the GM and his FO staff studies the tapes of the college QBs and determines that the QBs skills fit the coaches schemes, and then also consults the coach.   For someone to suggest that the GM and possibly owner didn't know what they were getting with a vet HC, I think it focusing the problem a bit narrowly.  

 

If the GM is intentionally blind or ignorant as to thinking about what succeeds in the NFL....the kind of scheme the HC wants and the kinds of players needed to fit the HCs scheme, and relies on the HC to tell him that,  then what exactly is the GMs qualifications for running a team? 

 

 

[hoosierhawk]

19 hours ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Size matters.

That's what she says.

[1959Colts]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/andy-dalton-is-expected-to-start-for-panthers-sunday

 

Andy Dalton is expected to start for Panthers Sunday

 

The Panthers aren’t being coy about their quarterback plans for Sunday’s game in Seattle.

Bryce Young did not practice because of an ankle injury for the second straight day on Thursday and the team said he’s not expected to play against the Seahawks when they announced the day’s full injury report for the week.

 

Andy Dalton has been working with the starters at practice and is now in line to make his first start with the team...

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/andy-dalton-is-expected-to-start-for-panthers-sunday

 

Andy Dalton is expected to start for Panthers Sunday

 

The Panthers aren’t being coy about their quarterback plans for Sunday’s game in Seattle.

Bryce Young did not practice because of an ankle injury for the second straight day on Thursday and the team said he’s not expected to play against the Seahawks when they announced the day’s full injury report for the week.

 

Andy Dalton has been working with the starters at practice and is now in line to make his first start with the team...

I guess Young isn't that durable (sarcasm)

[1959Colts]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I guess Young isn't that durable (sarcasm)

Yeah... Three games in, and it looks like 2 of the 3 are out with injuries.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

Yeah... Three games in, and it looks like 2 of the 3 are out with injuries.

Stroud has been sacked 11 times so far. 5 by the Ravens and 6 by us. It is a matter of time something happens to him too. You can't take those kinds of hits every week.

[DEColtsLover36]

3 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

That's what she says.

[Qwiz]

21 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Stroud has been sacked 11 times so far. 5 by the Ravens and 6 by us. It is a matter of time something happens to him too. You can't take those kinds of hits every week.

Things will get better when the Texans get their actual starters back on the line out there. Having second and third stringers playing naturally leads to the run game suffering and the QB getting hit more. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Qwiz said:

Things will get better when the Texans get their actual starters back on the line out there. Having second and third stringers playing naturally leads to the run game suffering and the QB getting hit more. 

If Stroud had a good Line, I think he does have the potential to be good. He likes throwing from the pocket a lot. I will be rooting for you guys this week. 

[Qwiz]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If Stroud had a good Line, I think he does have the potential to be good. He likes throwing from the pocket a lot. I will be rooting for you guys this week. 

Ha, we’ll need it. The Jags are the big boys in the division now until someone else can prove otherwise. I think Stingley got hurt too so Trevor will likely have a field day with our DBs. 
 

 I know Colts have a tough game this week too, but the Ravens are definitely looking a lot more beatable than they have in years past. Good luck!