Shane Steichen interview

[CR91]

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

Great site.   There’s lots of great info and most of it is FREE!   Always worth checking out. 

[DougDew]

Ah yes, another quarterback whispering HC.

 

A big nuance...well not nuance but a success factor so obvious its like a 2 x 4 upside the head....did he mention the importance of having one WR worthy of the #8 pick in the draft and the other worthy of a first round pick AND a $100M contract being instrumental in the "development" of the young, mobile, QB?

[John Hammonds]

12 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Steichen emphasized that a big part of a young QB's development is being in the same system with the same terminology multiple years.  I'm gonna guess that for at least AR's rookie contract years, that he, Steichen, and Jim Bob are all gonna be here together.  Same system.  Same terminology.  Four years.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, John Hammonds said:

Steichen emphasized that a big part of a young QB's development is being in the same system with the same terminology multiple years.  I'm gonna guess that for at least AR's rookie contract years, that he, Steichen, and Jim Bob are all gonna be here together.  Same system.  Same terminology.  Four years.

Yes, that's obvious, but the key there would be to have the same QB to coach for 4 years.  Can't be a QB whisperer when the QB changes every year.

[DougDew]

I mean, the article suggests that we should be listening to SS about what it takes to develop young QBs, like he has a 25 year track record of doing it.

 

He worked with Herbert, probably one of the smartest QBs to enter the NFL since Luck.  For one year.

And Hurts ( who is also considered very smart), where his performance coincided with other positive things besides SS.  For one year.

5 minutes ago, twfish said:

You have always been a troll, atleast own it at this point  

No.  I'm asking what credentials does SS have in being considered an authority on young QBs at this point in his career? 

 

Edit:  While I haven't posted much since the end of the season, I read the forum daily.  This slow period has digressed into the usual circle of homers patting each other on the back trying to one up each other on how wonderful everything Colts is, and criticizing any comment that enters their circle with a different opinion.  Sorry to make some points that deflate their High.

[Myles]

36 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

No.  I'm asking what credentials does SS have in being considered an authority on young QBs at this point in his career? 

 

 

He is the head coach of the Indianapolis Colts.   Some people more knowledgeable than any of us thought he was a good fit to train a new young QB.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

What he says here is exactly what I expect him to do. Simply the offense to cater to Richardsons strengths.

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I mean, the article suggests that we should be listening to SS about what it takes to develop young QBs, like he has a 25 year track record of doing it.

 

He worked with Herbert, probably one of the smartest QBs to enter the NFL since Luck.  For one year.

And Hurts ( who is also considered very smart), where his performance coincided with other positive things besides SS.  For one year.

No.  I'm asking what credentials does SS have in being considered an authority on young QBs at this point in his career? 

 

Edit:  While I haven't posted much since the end of the season, I read the forum daily.  This slow period has digressed into the usual circle of homers patting each other on the back trying to one up each other on how wonderful everything Colts is, and criticizing any comment that enters their circle with a different opinion.  Sorry to make some points that deflate their High.

Is this a joke. You really can’t mean this. Have you not looked a steichens past history. Then add he was a QB himself. Just ignore Herbert winning offensive rookie of the year or hurts taking off when Steichen took over play calling.

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

He is the head coach of the Indianapolis Colts.   Some people more knowledgeable than any of us thought he was a good fit to train a new young QB.

 

3 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

What he says here is exactly what I expect him to do. Simply the offense to cater to Richardsons strengths.

Is this a joke. You really can’t mean this. Have you not looked a steichens past history. Then add he was a QB himself. Just ignore Herbert winning offensive rookie of the year or hurts taking off when Steichen took over play calling.

SS is obviously a good fit for the Colts HC position.

 

The tweet that started this thread, and provided the perspective by which I commented,  says this exactly:

 

"SS explains the nuances of developing QBs (especially young mobile ones)"

 

Don't you think that quote exaggerates his credentials?  Its how you would lead into an article that talks about a 15 year vet HC.  SS been (successfully) involved with a grand total of two QBs, both of which are regarded as some of the smartest young QBs drafted in recent years.  Do you think that has had anything to do with their own development? 

 

And yet we take it for granted that SS has had enough experience, having success AND overcoming failures....breadth of knowledge...that he should be listened to as some sort of QB whisperer.

 

Maybe the tweet should be a little more down to earth and say..

 

"SS shares his thoughts about how he has helped to develop QBs thus far in his career."

 

And this is coming from me, the guy who had SS as his #1 choice for the Colts back when some wanted the NYG guy or Ryans. Geez.

[sb41champs]

Thanks for the share!!

[Zoltan]

So let’s talk about the article lol

[stitches]

14 hours ago, DougDew said:

I mean, the article suggests that we should be listening to SS about what it takes to develop young QBs, like he has a 25 year track record of doing it.

The reality is, if you are a great QB coach you won't have that many young QBs to develop, simply because you are likely to quickly rise through the ranks through successful development and integration of the QBs you are given(pretty much what Steichen has done so far). And once you get your own gig... again... if you are that good of a coach, you will likely succeed relatively quickly with one of your young QBs and will have a QB for the next decade plus. I guess the hope here is that AR will be that guy for Steichen and Steichen will be the guy to develop AR and extract the best out of him. 

 

I'm not sure there are many(any?) coaches with consistent 25 year track record of developing young QBs!? I'm open to hearing examples... again... simply because if they are good enough, they won't have to change QBs often once they become the main guy. Does Andy Reid even fit that description? I guess he developed McNabb and now Mahomes... but that's 2 QBs in the last 25 years... Who else would have the required qualifications to talk about developing young QBs? 

 

 

14 hours ago, DougDew said:

He worked with Herbert, probably one of the smartest QBs to enter the NFL since Luck.  For one year.

And Hurts ( who is also considered very smart), where his performance coincided with other positive things besides SS.  For one year.

He can only work with what he's given and he has done a great job with the QBs he was given. Neither of them was considered a no brainer QB pick who would succeed no matter what(Luck types) and both needed development. Of course, SS was not the only one who was there working with them... but that's pretty much the case with any coach anywhere. He was the main offensive guy in the for the Chargers and he was second in command with Philly... and their offense and QB took off when he was actually given the playcalling duties... 

 

When good things happen when the guy is given more responsibilities IMO this is worth noting and it's a plus in his resume.  

 

14 hours ago, DougDew said:

No.  I'm asking what credentials does SS have in being considered an authority on young QBs at this point in his career? 

His credentials are outstanding, but I have to admit they are also somewhat limited in time-span(which is pretty much the default for a young coach). In fact... I would say there is no offensive coach in the NFL with better credentials of developing young QBs in the league in the same time-span. Of course, this doesn't guarantee he will be successful here with AR. His role will be expanded to work with the whole team, and AR will need to put in the work too... no ammount of QB coaching genius can make a player with bad attitude and work ethic a success. 

 

14 hours ago, DougDew said:

Edit:  While I haven't posted much since the end of the season, I read the forum daily.  This slow period has digressed into the usual circle of homers patting each other on the back trying to one up each other on how wonderful everything Colts is, and criticizing any comment that enters their circle with a different opinion.  Sorry to make some points that deflate their High.

You know I've been plenty critical of the Colts at pretty much every level(from owner through FO and coaches to players), I just don't see your point in this particular case. IMO Steichen was one of the best coaches we could have hired when you consider where this team is in its development and the fact that we were going to be drafting a young QB to develop. I think his resume is VERY GOOD in this particular area. In fact, IMO there are much bigger questions about his ability to organize and command a team as a whole, rather than his ability to coach QBs. 

[stitches]

10 hours ago, DougDew said:

 

SS is obviously a good fit for the Colts HC position.

 

The tweet that started this thread, and provided the perspective by which I commented,  says this exactly:

 

"SS explains the nuances of developing QBs (especially young mobile ones)"

 

Don't you think that quote exaggerates his credentials?  Its how you would lead into an article that talks about a 15 year vet HC.  SS been (successfully) involved with a grand total of two QBs, both of which are regarded as some of the smartest young QBs drafted in recent years.  Do you think that has had anything to do with their own development? 

No. I don't think so. If Steichen doesn't have the credentials to talk about developing young mobile QBs, literally nobody else in the league does. Even coaches like Sean Payton don't have as much success developing young QBs. Maybe the only one that fits your criteria is (15-25 years experience with multiple developed QBs) is Andy Reid with McNabb and Mahomes. Just... long-time HCs in the league don't cycle through QBs if they are any good in developing those QBs. The only ones that cycle through QBs in short period of time and are any good are the ones that are rising through the ranks. Hopefully this is Steichen's last stop for a while and he continues to have success with AR. 

 

10 hours ago, DougDew said:

And yet we take it for granted that SS has had enough experience, having success AND overcoming failures....breadth of knowledge...that he should be listened to as some sort of QB whisperer.

He overcame early failures with Hurts. His first year with Philly didn't start great. 

10 hours ago, DougDew said:

Maybe the tweet should be a little more down to earth and say..

 

"SS shares his thoughts about how he has helped to develop QBs thus far in his career."

 

And this is coming from me, the guy who had SS as his #1 choice for the Colts back when some wanted the NYG guy or Ryans. Geez.

That seems more like... stylistic objection than one over the substance of the article... What are your thoughts on the actual substance of the article? Just so we return to the actual topic... 

[2006Coltsbestever]

44 minutes ago, stitches said:

The reality is, if you are a great QB coach you won't have that many young QBs to develop, simply because you are likely to quickly rise through the ranks through successful development and integration of the QBs you are given(pretty much what Steichen has done so far). And once you get your own gig... again... if you are that good of a coach, you will likely succeed relatively quickly with one of your young QBs and will have a QB for the next decade plus. I guess the hope here is that AR will be that guy for Steichen and Steichen will be the guy to develop AR and extract the best out of him. 

 

I'm not sure there are many(any?) coaches with consistent 25 year track record of developing young QBs!? I'm open to hearing examples... again... simply because if they are good enough, they won't have to change QBs often once they become the main guy. Does Andy Reid even fit that description? I guess he developed McNabb and now Mahomes... but that's 2 QBs in the last 25 years... Who else would have the required qualifications to talk about developing young QBs? 

 

 

He can only work with what he's given and he has done a great job with the QBs he was given. Neither of them was considered a no brainer QB pick who would succeed no matter what(Luck types) and both needed development. Of course, SS was not the only one who was there working with them... but that's pretty much the case with any coach anywhere. He was the main offensive guy in the for the Chargers and he was second in command with Philly... and their offense and QB took off when he was actually given the playcalling duties... 

 

When good things happen when the guy is given more responsibilities IMO this is worth noting and it's a plus in his resume.  

 

His credentials are outstanding, but I have to admit they are also somewhat limited in time-span(which is pretty much the default for a young coach). In fact... I would say there is no offensive coach in the NFL with better credentials of developing young QBs in the league in the same time-span. Of course, this doesn't guarantee he will be successful here with AR. His role will be expanded to work with the whole team, and AR will need to put in the work too... no ammount of QB coaching genius can make a player with bad attitude and work ethic a success. 

 

You know I've been plenty critical of the Colts at pretty much every level(from owner through FO and coaches to players), I just don't see your point in this particular case. IMO Steichen was one of the best coaches we could have hired when you consider where this team is in its development and the fact that we were going to be drafting a young QB to develop. I think his resume is VERY GOOD in this particular area. In fact, IMO there are much bigger questions about his ability to organize and command a team as a whole, rather than his ability to coach QBs. 

I have faith in Shane because I am sure he got the QB he wanted. We had a choice between AR or Levis, 2 options with potential, I am sure Ballard and Irsay chose the guy that Shane wanted and who he thinks can turn into a top 10 QB.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

12 hours ago, DougDew said:

 

SS is obviously a good fit for the Colts HC position.

 

The tweet that started this thread, and provided the perspective by which I commented,  says this exactly:

 

"SS explains the nuances of developing QBs (especially young mobile ones)"

 

Don't you think that quote exaggerates his credentials?  Its how you would lead into an article that talks about a 15 year vet HC.  SS been (successfully) involved with a grand total of two QBs, both of which are regarded as some of the smartest young QBs drafted in recent years.  Do you think that has had anything to do with their own development? 

 

And yet we take it for granted that SS has had enough experience, having success AND overcoming failures....breadth of knowledge...that he should be listened to as some sort of QB whisperer.

 

Maybe the tweet should be a little more down to earth and say..

 

"SS shares his thoughts about how he has helped to develop QBs thus far in his career."

 

And this is coming from me, the guy who had SS as his #1 choice for the Colts back when some wanted the NYG guy or Ryans. Geez.

where were they regarded as the smartest QBs to come out in years? And by who? 

[4daUColts]

17 hours ago, DougDew said:

I mean, the article suggests that we should be listening to SS about what it takes to develop young QBs, like he has a 25 year track record of doing it.

 

He worked with Herbert, probably one of the smartest QBs to enter the NFL since Luck.  For one year.

And Hurts ( who is also considered very smart), where his performance coincided with other positive things besides SS.  For one year.

No.  I'm asking what credentials does SS have in being considered an authority on young QBs at this point in his career? 

 

Edit:  While I haven't posted much since the end of the season, I read the forum daily.  This slow period has digressed into the usual circle of homers patting each other on the back trying to one up each other on how wonderful everything Colts is, and criticizing any comment that enters their circle with a different opinion.  Sorry to make some points that deflate their High.

SS is more than likely one of our best free agent (i guess) signings since buckner

[DougDew]

5 hours ago, stitches said:

That seems more like... stylistic objection than one over the substance of the article... What are your thoughts on the actual substance of the article? Just so we return to the actual topic... 

I'm not going to respond to every person who quoted me....

 

My comment was about the first post of this thread, which contain a tweet that seemed to indicate that SS is an established young QB developer.  He isn't.  There is no doubt he had success with the two young QBs he has touched....and he may be the best at it in the NFL because nobody else is any good at it.....but the tweet suggested he is some sort of standard bearer or invented a coaching template for developing young mobile QBs.  He hasn't been doing it long enough to have that lofty rep yet.  And if AR flops, just his very next project, SS's reputation goes back to being a JAG Q coach.

 

And, I'm not convinced that Herbert's success in LA and Hurts success in Philly has anything to do with development.  SS may simply be able to call plays around the strengths and limits of the QBs.  True development of the QB.....the definition of the word develop.... would mean that the QBs will perform at the same high level after SS leaves.

[Nickster]

20 hours ago, Myles said:

He is the head coach of the Indianapolis Colts.   Some people more knowledgeable than any of us thought he was a good fit to train a new young QB.

Aren’t these the same smart people that thought Matt Ryan was going to take us to the SuperBowl with Matt Pryor guarding his backside?

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 7/20/2023 at 1:49 AM, NewColtsFan said:

Great site.   There’s lots of great info and most of it is FREE!   Always worth checking out. 

 

I like Free stuff! 

[ADnum1]

On 7/20/2023 at 9:58 AM, DougDew said:

Ah yes, another quarterback whispering HC.

 

A big nuance...well not nuance but a success factor so obvious its like a 2 x 4 upside the head....did he mention the importance of having one WR worthy of the #8 pick in the draft and the other worthy of a first round pick AND a $100M contract being instrumental in the "development" of the young, mobile, QB?

I think you have a good point here.

 

Did Hurts development take off because he was in the second year of the SS system or was it the addition of the 100M WR AJ Brown ?

 

Tying this back to the JT thread, this is why Championship level teams are spending 25M a year on WRs and running backs can't get paid anymore.

 

WRs impact a game far more than RBs do in today's modern NFL.

 

The real question is are Pitt, Pierce, McKenzie ready to step up and help their young QB out along with SS's tailored offense ?

 

Only time will tell. 

[DougDew]

12 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

I think you have a good point here.

 

Did Hurts development take off because he was in the second year of the SS system or was it the addition of the 100M WR AJ Brown ?

 

Tying this back to the JT thread, this is why Championship level teams are spending 25M a year on WRs and running backs can't get paid anymore.

 

WRs impact a game far more than RBs do in today's modern NFL.

 

The real question is are Pitt, Pierce, McKenzie ready to step up and help their young QB out along with SS's tailored offense ?

 

Only time will tell. 

There are a lot of moving parts to analyze why Philly was good this year, and why Hurts took the next step.  A lot more to look at than just SS being the OC...who by the way may have play-called Philly's offense into a high ranking and Hurts into a high QBR more so than "developing" Hurts.

 

I would take great play-calling to put AR into a high QBR.  That's good.  I would not call that QB development though.

 

And Hurts strikes me as a QB that does not do any one thing extremely well.  He tends to make the right play at the right time, makes the correct read, makes the proper throw...doesn't ever wow you with a spectacular throw or a spectacular run, but gets it done.  As a QB, I would call him almost a great game manager, but that's a term not often used to describe a dual threat QB.  Is Hurts what he is because of SS, or because of his grown field experience and wisdom in putting it all together at the right time?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

25 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

I think you have a good point here.

 

Did Hurts development take off because he was in the second year of the SS system or was it the addition of the 100M WR AJ Brown ?

 

Tying this back to the JT thread, this is why Championship level teams are spending 25M a year on WRs and running backs can't get paid anymore.

 

WRs impact a game far more than RBs do in today's modern NFL.

 

The real question is are Pitt, Pierce, McKenzie ready to step up and help their young QB out along with SS's tailored offense ?

 

Only time will tell. 

It was probably a little bit of both.

[NFLfan]

23 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.

 

[AwesomeAustin]

9 hours ago, DougDew said:

There are a lot of moving parts to analyze why Philly was good this year, and why Hurts took the next step.  A lot more to look at than just SS being the OC...who by the way may have play-called Philly's offense into a high ranking and Hurts into a high QBR more so than "developing" Hurts.

 

I would take great play-calling to put AR into a high QBR.  That's good.  I would not call that QB development though.

 

And Hurts strikes me as a QB that does not do any one thing extremely well.  He tends to make the right play at the right time, makes the correct read, makes the proper throw...doesn't ever wow you with a spectacular throw or a spectacular run, but gets it done.  As a QB, I would call him almost a great game manager, but that's a term not often used to describe a dual threat QB.  Is Hurts what he is because of SS, or because of his grown field experience and wisdom in putting it all together at the right time?

A lot of good points. I’m excited to see how SS calls plays this year.  I’m actually looking forward to breaking down game film like I used to. With a young inexperienced QB, the all 22 type film will be the best way to really see what is going on. I expect plenty of mistakes but the film will show if they were self induced or he was put into a bad situation. This should be a fun season 

[Yoshinator]

9 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Agreed.. 80s through mid 00s were golden era..

 

I lost interest when guys like Seth Rogers were becoming the big shots, and haven't seen much in last decade. 

You mean Seth Rollins?

[NewColtsFan]

14 hours ago, DougDew said:

I'm not going to respond to every person who quoted me....

 

My comment was about the first post of this thread, which contain a tweet that seemed to indicate that SS is an established young QB developer.  He isn't.  There is no doubt he had success with the two young QBs he has touched....and he may be the best at it in the NFL because nobody else is any good at it.....but the tweet suggested he is some sort of standard bearer or invented a coaching template for developing young mobile QBs.  He hasn't been doing it long enough to have that lofty rep yet.  And if AR flops, just his very next project, SS's reputation goes back to being a JAG Q coach.

 

And, I'm not convinced that Herbert's success in LA and Hurts success in Philly has anything to do with development.  SS may simply be able to call plays around the strengths and limits of the QBs.  True development of the QB.....the definition of the word develop.... would mean that the QBs will perform at the same high level after SS leaves.

I could be wrong but you now appear to be trying to lay a foundation that SS was a questionable hire to be HC.   That he hasn’t done enough and his hiring by Ballard is risky.   If I’m wrong, feel free to say so.  
 

But here’s what I don’t think you’ve noticed across the NFL….   In the last 6 years, look at the following young head coaches hired.   
 

Sean McVay         Rams

Brandon Staley    Chargers 

Matt LeFluer.        Packers 

Zac Taylor.            Bengals

Mike McDaniel.     Dolphins 

DeMeco Ryans.    Texans

Nick Sirianni.         Eagles 

Shane Steichen.    Colts

 

 

That’s eight head coaches, a quarter of the NFL.    All under 40 when hired, and if you look at their resume you’ll see that none of them had much coordinator experience….  1-3 years for most, if not all.  That’s it.   Owners and GMs are trusting their franchise to young coaches without that much high level experience.   Steichen’s experience (3 years OC with 2 franchises) is roughly equal to all the other new young coaches.   But don’t take my word for it.   Check out their history on their wiki page or the page on the team website, so it’s easily available. 
 

FWIW:  I used to oppose the hiring of such young and inexperienced head coaches.  Too soon, too fast.  Turns out, I’m wrong.  Most every coach on that list is very successful.   If we’re lucky, Steichen will be very good as well.   But there’s nothing wrong with the hiring.   
 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

Sean McVay         Rams

Brandon Staley    Chargers 

Matt LeFluer.        Packers 

Zac Taylor.            Bengals

Mike McDaniel.     Dolphins 

DeMeco Ryans.    Texans

Nick Sirianni.         Eagles 

Shane Steichen.    Colts

 

 

 

 

Add Kevin O'Connell to the list, he also had 3 years of OC experience before becoming head coach at age 37. 

 

I actually get what Doug says and I agree to that.

 

Doug only says SS isn't yet a gold standard or sure-fire QB whisperer, and the opening tweet seems to suggest that, which he disagrees..

 

I don't think it needs to be taken as foundation for saying it's a wrong hire. He just means his experience with QBs is too short to suggest that.

 

It may or may not have anything to do with the young head coaches being hired all over the league, meaning that it doesn't make SS a QB whisperer.

 

However, if AR becomes a good enough QB to start for multiple years, that would cement SS' legacy as QB whisperer, because AR is as raw as they come from the college. If AR doesn't pan out, I wouldn't put it on Steichen either. 

[Scott Pennock]

On 7/20/2023 at 1:00 PM, DougDew said:

I think you're mistaking me for @jvan1973.  Mr Pedantic.

 

There is no argument if folks would just admit I am right.   Who's doing the stirring, me or the folks who liked your post?

 

I provide unique insight to the folks who would say that SS is a QB whisperer for coaching Hurts and Herbert for a year each, and before even coaching AR for a day.

Herbert's QB Rating his rookie year was 98.3 and has not been as high after SS left for the Eagles....

 

Hurts's QB Rating under Steichen improved by 10 points to 87.2 his 2nd year in the league (1st with SS) and then jumped 14 points to 101.5 his 3rd year in the league (2nd with SS).........

 

I would say he has a little latitude when it comes to helping to develop young QB's especially when the two listed above are different style of QB's where one is a classic 6'6" drop back passer and the other is a 6'1" mobile running style QB.......

 

In comparison to FR............he broke Matt Ryan.........He didn't teach Phillip Rivers crap..........and Wentz (Ugh....just ugh).....not a QB whisperer in the least bit.

[NFLfan]

3 hours ago, Nickster said:

You need to turn in your hall monitor badge when you leave school today.  I think YOU do that and the marketplace of ideas hear would be 50% less confrontational.

 

YOU AND YOUR ILK are responsible for the negativity here with differing opinions.

 

Stop. Your posts suggest that you are more interested in personally attacking some members than you are about talking about sports. Please quit. Thanks.

[NewColtsFan]

39 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

Herbert's QB Rating his rookie year was 98.3 and has not been as high after SS left for the Eagles....

 

Hurts's QB Rating under Steichen improved by 10 points to 87.2 his 2nd year in the league (1st with SS) and then jumped 14 points to 101.5 his 3rd year in the league (2nd with SS).........

 

I would say he has a little latitude when it comes to helping to develop young QB's especially when the two listed above are different style of QB's where one is a classic 6'6" drop back passer and the other is a 6'1" mobile running style QB.......

 

In comparison to FR............he broke Matt Ryan.........He didn't teach Phillip Rivers crap..........and Wentz (Ugh....just ugh).....not a QB whisperer in the least bit.

I really enjoyed enjoyed your first three paragraphs….  
 

But here’s the argument for Frank Reich. 
 

1.  He got the best year out of Luck by far and Luck wasn’t even close to 100 percent.   
 

2.   He was getting a good year out of Brissett until he got hurt and played well below 100 percent.  
 

4.   Look at the years both Rivers and Wentz had BEFORE they joined the Colts.   Both were career worst.   Yet both bounced back to have better years with Frank.  And both years were the two worst Covid years when practice was limited.  
 

5.   You could argue the person who ruined Matt Ryan wasn’t Frank Reich.  It was Chris Ballard and our former OL coach.  Frank didn't put that terrible OL together. 
 

Im not telling you Frank was blameless.   He gets his share as well.  I just think history shows things weren’t as bad with Frank as some might think.   

[NFLfan]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I could be wrong but you now appear to be trying to lay a foundation that SS was a questionable hire to be HC.   That he hasn’t done enough and his hiring by Ballard is risky.   If I’m wrong, feel free to say so.  

 

I did not read that particular comment the same way. It seems that he is saying that he is not ready to crown Steicken as The QB Guru as has been suggested by some. He would like to see more from him.

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

My humble 2¢.

 

Though we would love SS be a QB whisperer  the truth is not enough data yet.....but good results so far. Herberts has lots of talent so his success with him may not be so surprising. Hurts also talented, but I give him more credit with him because I was surprised to see him pass as well as he did last season.. It will be interesting to see if Hurts passing continues to progress, especially with SS gone. 

 

Reich, imo, did nothing to warrant a QB whisperer rep. Rivers was long on his way of being a HOF candidate before he came to indy. Luck was well easily established as  a Top 10 QB before Reich ever laid eyes on him. If Reich had some QB guru magic I don't think it worked on SamE. or the QB they traded to the Seahawks. 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 7/20/2023 at 4:46 PM, DougDew said:

 

SS is obviously a good fit for the Colts HC position.

 

The tweet that started this thread, and provided the perspective by which I commented,  says this exactly:

 

"SS explains the nuances of developing QBs (especially young mobile ones)"

 

Don't you think that quote exaggerates his credentials?  Its how you would lead into an article that talks about a 15 year vet HC.  SS been (successfully) involved with a grand total of two QBs, both of which are regarded as some of the smartest young QBs drafted in recent years.  Do you think that has had anything to do with their own development? 

 

And yet we take it for granted that SS has had enough experience, having success AND overcoming failures....breadth of knowledge...that he should be listened to as some sort of QB whisperer.

 

Maybe the tweet should be a little more down to earth and say..

 

"SS shares his thoughts about how he has helped to develop QBs thus far in his career."

 

And this is coming from me, the guy who had SS as his #1 choice for the Colts back when some wanted the NYG guy or Ryans. Geez.

2 things will become crystal clear in the coming years. Was Reich the problem in Indy or was it a roster lacking talent? Is Steichen a qb whisperer? We shall know in probably 2 years what is the truth about both men. Can't hide from results.

[Moosejawcolt]

17 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

My humble 2¢.

 

Though we would love SS be a QB whisperer  the truth is not enough data yet.....but good results so far. Herberts has lots of talent so his success with him may not be so surprising. Hurts also talented, but I give him more credit with him because I was surprised to see him pass as well as he did last season.. It will be interesting to see if Hurts passing continues to progress, especially with SS gone. 

 

Reich, imo, did nothing to warrant a QB whisperer rep. Rivers was long on his way of being a HOF candidate before he came to indy. Luck was well easily established as  a Top 10 QB before Reich ever laid eyes on him. If Reich had some QB guru magic I don't think it worked on SamE. or the QB they traded to the Seahawks. 

I kind of disagree about Reich. Luck has his best year under Reich. Brissett had his best year under Reich. Rivers had a bounce back year under Reich. For all the critism of Wentz, he had a statistical bounce back year under Reich. I feel Ryan would have been successful but the Oline got him killed early and he never recovered. I would say there is more evidence to suggest Reich is a qb whisperer than Steichen. Steichen had far more talent to work with. Like I said. These next 2 years will probably cement their legacies going forward. However, I can guarantee that if Young is a star, the fans here will point to Young as a can't miss prospect and Reich as having little affect on his success. Tell me this. Name me another coach in the history of the NFL to have a winning record with;  I think it was 5 different qbs to start a season?I think if Luck would have stayed, this team could have been special. 

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I kind of disagree about Reich. Luck has his best year under Reich. Brissett had his best year under Reich. Rivers had a bounce back year under Reich. For all the critism of Wentz, he had a statistical bounce back year under Reich. I feel Ryan would have been successful but the Oline got him killed early and he never recovered. I would say there is more evidence to suggest Reich is a qb whisperer than Steichen. Steichen had far more talent to work with. Like I said. These next 2 years will probably cement their legacies going forward. However, I can guarantee that if Young is a star, the fans here will point to Young as a can't miss prospect and Reich as having little affect on his success. Tell me this. Name me another coach in the history of the NFL to have a winning record with;  I think it was 5 different qbs to start a season?I think if Luck would have stayed, this team could have been special. 

Reich forgot he could call plays that weren't so predictable. There was no way you could honestly say that Reich was a QB whisperer.  His favorite play was to take the ball out of the QBs hands and run a useless play. 

[Nickster]

14 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I kind of disagree about Reich. Luck has his best year under Reich. Brissett had his best year under Reich. Rivers had a bounce back year under Reich. For all the critism of Wentz, he had a statistical bounce back year under Reich. I feel Ryan would have been successful but the Oline got him killed early and he never recovered. I would say there is more evidence to suggest Reich is a qb whisperer than Steichen. Steichen had far more talent to work with. Like I said. These next 2 years will probably cement their legacies going forward. However, I can guarantee that if Young is a star, the fans here will point to Young as a can't miss prospect and Reich as having little affect on his success. Tell me this. Name me another coach in the history of the NFL to have a winning record with;  I think it was 5 different qbs to start a season?I think if Luck would have stayed, this team could have been special. 

Ryan was the only player that failed at QB here.  Wentz was 9th in QBR.  QBs played above their average here under Reich.

 

Ryan was a complete misfit here to begin with, even ignoring that he is washed up.  We went from MR to AR organizationally and you probably couldn’t pick two players who are more different.  This team with a downhill, one cut back, big body pass catchers and highly drafted and paid interior linemen (though recently terrible performance wise) is set up for a dual threat guy.  I entertained before the Ryan signing to sign a guy like Mariota that could run a RPO, zone read based O thinking maybe it could maximize the un 2022 looking set of offensive players skill sets.

 

Looks like they are trying that for a few years any way.

 

As far as AR when he starts. . .

 

There isn’t clear evidence which method ie. Start right away or gradual insertion into the starters role is better.  Mahomes sat and Burrow started day one.  Brady sat, Peyton started, etc. etc etc.  

 

for me, I don’t think anyone serious in the org thinks that we are ready to compete this year.  I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure most FB guys know we are a ways a way and the org has clearly stated they know AR needs development.  Since this is likely the case, I would want to make sure the line isn’t the incompetent one of last season or the really bad pass pro one of the Wentz year when grooming AR.

 

I believe we are seeing orgs willing to use disposable QBs ie. Guys that will run a lot and be dramatically less effective as they approach 30 because of taking hits like RBs do who rarely are near their peak at 28 or 29 because of accumulated damage.

 

Like running JT or anyone 300 times, you are almost certain to be limiting that players league life span.  So a question I have is that if we are going to run an offense similar to what Hurts ran last year, what advantage would their be to racking up hits for a whole season in a 20 year old guy running an O much simpler than the traditional NFL O.This type of offense does not take near as much non physical development so it’s not going to effect ARs time table as much.  This is a team that intended to slow play a RB, Taylor in his rookie season, until Mack got hurt.

 

if ar were running a pro style O then there is another aspect of the debate which is is it better to let the drop back QB watch and learn or play and learn?

 

For me with AR I’d rather see an emphasis on is the line going to be competent and even if it is, do we want to run this young dude 150+ times here in his rookie season?

 

 

 

[lollygagger8]

Here's another article from that site that mentions developing a new QB: 

 

https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/analysis/panthers-colts-have-difficult-task-preparing-young-richardson/

 

 

[DougDew]

On 7/22/2023 at 1:30 AM, NewColtsFan said:

I could be wrong but you now appear to be trying to lay a foundation that SS was a questionable hire to be HC.   That he hasn’t done enough and his hiring by Ballard is risky.   If I’m wrong, feel free to say so.  
 

But here’s what I don’t think you’ve noticed across the NFL….   In the last 6 years, look at the following young head coaches hired.   
 

Sean McVay         Rams

Brandon Staley    Chargers 

Matt LeFluer.        Packers 

Zac Taylor.            Bengals

Mike McDaniel.     Dolphins 

DeMeco Ryans.    Texans

Nick Sirianni.         Eagles 

Shane Steichen.    Colts

 

 

That’s eight head coaches, a quarter of the NFL.    All under 40 when hired, and if you look at their resume you’ll see that none of them had much coordinator experience….  1-3 years for most, if not all.  That’s it.   Owners and GMs are trusting their franchise to young coaches without that much high level experience.   Steichen’s experience (3 years OC with 2 franchises) is roughly equal to all the other new young coaches.   But don’t take my word for it.   Check out their history on their wiki page or the page on the team website, so it’s easily available. 
 

FWIW:  I used to oppose the hiring of such young and inexperienced head coaches.  Too soon, too fast.  Turns out, I’m wrong.  Most every coach on that list is very successful.   If we’re lucky, Steichen will be very good as well.   But there’s nothing wrong with the hiring.   
 

SS was my first choice as HC hire when Reich was fired.  I never got into the middle of the Saturday debate because I figured Irsay was going to have a fresh look at the end of the season anyway.  Others talked about Demeco Ryans, for example.

 

Unlike some others, I'm not convinced that SS is some sort of developer of QBs simply because he did a great job of calling plays with the QBs he had.  "Developing" means that the QB learns something from SS.  In Herbert's case, apparently his QBR has gone down since SS left, so that tells me SS is good at understanding the strengths and limits of the QBs he has and calls plays that work, and helps the QBR rise as long as SS is calling the plays.

 

So I definitely think SS was a good hire.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

SS was my first choice as HC hire when Reich was fired.  I never got into the middle of the Saturday debate because I figured Irsay was going to have a fresh look at the end of the season anyway.  Others talked about Demeco Ryans, for example.

 

Unlike some others, I'm not convinced that SS is some sort of developer of QBs simply because he did a great job of calling plays with the QBs he had.  "Developing" means that the QB learns something from SS.  In Herbert's case, apparently his QBR has gone down since SS left, so that tells me SS is good at understanding the strengths and limits of the QBs he has and calls plays that work, and helps the QBR rise as long as SS is calling the plays.

 

So I definitely think SS was a good hire.  

Part of being a good developer of quarterbacks is to know their strengths and weaknesses and develop your play calling around that. All the other stuff like mechanics is usually done in the off-season with special trainers.

[DougDew]

32 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Part of being a good developer of quarterbacks is to know their strengths and weaknesses and develop your play calling around that. All the other stuff like mechanics is usually done in the off-season with special trainers.

I say that QB development is about the QB not having as many weaknesses as the years progress.  Which is why its tough to be called a QB developer if the coach has only worked with each QB one year.  How much can really be accomplished in the QBs development in one season.