Bill Cower

[OffensivelyPC]

23 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

He talked to Jeff about the oline before he fired Frank.   He offered the job to Jeff after he fired Frank.  I think you're making a big leap that Frank wouldn't have been fired if Jeff wasn't interested 

I actually think Jeff said he had a quick convo RIGHT BEFORE they fired Frank to make sure Jeff wanted to be the coach.  Not sure how much liberty I'm taking with the quote, but just wanted to add that in.  It wasn't Sunday (during the Glenn ROH day) according to everyone really.  

[DougDew]

27 minutes ago, stitches said:

We are reading this very differently. IMO it was Frank's performance. If Frank's performance was better he wouldn't be on the block. IMO Frank's fate was already sealed - it was either going to be - Frank gets fired now and Irsay gets his guy in to tell him what's going on inside or Frank gets fired in the off-season without the benefit of Irsay getting trusted info in the meantime. The Saturday availability was a plus and accelerator, not the main reason. 

I'm not discounting Frank's performance as being the catalyst. 

 

I'm saying that if Jeff was not available, Frank would not have been fired that night.  Irsay did not sound like he was going to to fire Frank that night anyway, then would look around for IHC candidates later.  I think people are making that assumption as much as I'm making another assumption.  That's the assumption that Cowher is making...the traditional reasons, IMO.

 

So if Jeff was not available, Frank would be the HC now.   Said very simply.

 

The reason I'm bringing this up is because of how the critics of the hiring are reacting when they are thinking its a typical pure performance based firing.  It was a combo that had Jeff's availability as a central theme...if not the main reason.

 

If Jeff said "yes" before Irsay officially fired Frank, then Cowher's argument is moot.

 

How the season would have unfolded with Frank still at the helm is unknown.  But Irsay saw his window and took it now.  Who knows, maybe Saturday has a new and bigger gig with ESPN by January, or any other coaching gig at any level of football, and the opportunity passed..

 

[DougDew]

30 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I actually think Jeff said he had a quick convo RIGHT BEFORE they fired Frank to make sure Jeff wanted to be the coach.  Not sure how much liberty I'm taking with the quote, but just wanted to add that in.  It wasn't Sunday (during the Glenn ROH day) according to everyone really.  

Yes.  I can't recall the exact quotes either.   I think some of the comments that talk about the time line are scattered throughout the presser and are spoken by both Irsay and Saturday at various times.  But if you watch the presser with the specific goal of piecing together the timeline, I think anybody would have the strong impression that Irsay knew Jeff would accept the IHC job before he let Frank know that he was fired.  That's the opposite way of how we assume these things usually flow, IMO.

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Yeah, Mayock was the situation that immediately came to mind for me when I read the complaints about Saturday being hired, and then the complaints about the complaints.   The conversations didn't seem to hit the mark.  Lots of flurry and little substance, IMO.

 

The Mayock comparison may not have been brought up out of convenience.

 

Having said that, I support the Saturday hiring as a good hire and as a means to let Frank go...which would not have been done if it wasn't for Saturday's availability (Irsay's words).   I support making an upgrade when the time is right to do it. 

 

With that mindset that Irsay indicated he had, he would not have promoted one of Frank's assistants over Frank...that would make no sense.  It makes more sense that the guy who is a better candidate than your current HC is a guy who comes from another area.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m rooting for Saturday. I just think the process was unjust. It diminishes what guys like Bradley and Fox have done in the league. Bradley may not have been good with the Jags but his defense has been playing great here. Fox has been the the SB twice.  Literally every time a HC is fired mid-season or away because of a suspension or medical, the interim coach always is someone on staff. You’re giving your people a chance to audition. Whether it be here or somewhere else, that’s just the way the game goes. It’s the right thing to do.

 

Bringing in an outsider who has never even coached is the owner telling the staff, “I don’t think any of you are good enough to coach this team in the short term”. Now I’m sure there are some ulterior motives there from Irsay, but it’s still an insult. More so the fact that you didn’t even let anyone interview. 
 

And I’m saying this as someone who is a manager at my job. You have to always give your internal candidates a chance to at least apply. Especially when the guys already under you have more experience than the external.

[DougDew]

22 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Don’t get me wrong, I’m rooting for Saturday. I just think the process was unjust. It diminishes what guys like Bradley and Fox have done in the league. Bradley may not have been good with the Jags but his defense has been playing great here. Fox has been the the SB twice.  Literally every time a HC is fired mid-season or away because of a suspension or medical, the interim coach always is someone on staff. You’re giving your people a chance to audition. Whether it be here or somewhere else, that’s just the way the game goes. It’s the right thing to do.

 

Bringing in an outsider who has never even coached is the owner telling the staff, “I don’t think any of you are good enough to coach this team in the short term”. Now I’m sure there are some ulterior motives there from Irsay, but it’s still an insult. More so the fact that you didn’t even let anyone interview. 
 

And I’m saying this as someone who is a manager at my job. You have to always give your internal candidates a chance to at least apply. Especially when the guys already under you have more experience than the external.

Hopefully I can explain my opinion more clearly.  

 

Cowher is complaining that other coaches were "passed over".  Some others might be thinking that black coaches were also passed over.  No.  There was no vacancy in the HC position.   The position transitioned from HC Frank to IHC Jeff without there ever being a "job posting".  The transition never would have occurred unless Jeff was available.  So if Jeff was not available, Frank would still be HC and there would still be no vacancy.   Nobody got passed over because the situation to get passed over never existed.  Irsay hired Jeff to get better performance out of the HC position for the remainder of the year than he was getting from Frank (and to probably do a org evaluation).  There was no imminent HC vacancy. 

 

There is no NFL rule to post a IHC job, for good reason.  There is no time to vet candidates in any meaningful way because the staff has to start preparing for the next battle immediately.  Its like a hospital ER where you want to have better leadership than you have at the critical moment...you grab who you want...no time to vet.  Most other temporary jobs in the world aren't that time intense.

 

When its time to fill the HC vacancy, then the job will be posted and the process will transpire according to NFL policy.  And, yes, Jeff will probably have a leg up since he will now have experience.  Too bad for others. That's life.

 

 

 

[Myles]

35 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Don’t get me wrong, I’m rooting for Saturday. I just think the process was unjust. It diminishes what guys like Bradley and Fox have done in the league. Bradley may not have been good with the Jags but his defense has been playing great here. Fox has been the the SB twice.  Literally every time a HC is fired mid-season or away because of a suspension or medical, the interim coach always is someone on staff. You’re giving your people a chance to audition. Whether it be here or somewhere else, that’s just the way the game goes. It’s the right thing to do.

 

Bringing in an outsider who has never even coached is the owner telling the staff, “I don’t think any of you are good enough to coach this team in the short term”. Now I’m sure there are some ulterior motives there from Irsay, but it’s still an insult. More so the fact that you didn’t even let anyone interview. 
 

And I’m saying this as someone who is a manager at my job. You have to always give your internal candidates a chance to at least apply. Especially when the guys already under you have more experience than the external.

So you think that even though Irsay didn't want either Bradley or Fox to be the head coach, he should have given it to them anyway?   That is silly.  I am also a manager where I work and I would never give a position to someone I didn't want to give it to.   I understand people backing Fox for this because he has taken teams to the Superbowl, but of the 16 seasons he was the head coach, 10 of the seasons his team was .500 or less.  

[OffensivelyPC]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Yes.  I can't recall the exact quotes either.   I think some of the comments that talk about the time line are scattered throughout the presser and are spoken by both Irsay and Saturday at various times.  But if you watch the presser with the specific goal of piecing together the timeline, I think anybody would have the strong impression that Irsay knew Jeff would accept the IHC job before he let Frank know that he was fired.  That's the opposite way of how we assume these things usually flow, IMO.

Yeah, I think so too.  I mean maybe.  I don't really know.  What I do know is that it seems inconsistent at least.

[Superman]

9 hours ago, stitches said:

I disagree. I absolutely think he is frothing at the mouth... even if he tries to present it in a calm manner. He really really hates that his old boys club buddies for once didn't get the job. Implying Saturday doesn't have the committment for the job - what is that?The first minute of that clip is exactly that. How is that warranted? "Speaking on behalf of the coaching profession" - how about you speak for yourself, Bill? Illusions of grandeur and self-importance much? 

 

"What about the assistants on the staff right now? The guys that have been there in training camp... the guys have been there ealry in the morning and late at night.. guys that have gone through the first six weeks in that building" What about them? You mean the guys that coached this team to the horrific state it was in before Frank's firing? They have presided over an underperforming team that lacked any life and spark. Why should any of them get a promotion for that? The two coaches who have had HC experience were horrible at their previous stops as HC and were fired for the horrible job they did? Why should they have precedence over ANYBODY? Experienced or not, I would rather see someone who has a shot at being good get the opportunity over someone who has already proved he is bad at that job. This is the old boys club in full effect here - they protect and promote eachother no matter what. At their last stops as HC in the league John Fox and Gus Bradley had combined record of 29/112. But no, those are the people that actually need ANOTHER shot... why? Because they have the experience of losing 75% of their games in the past? Who else? Scott Milanovich? The guy that refused to take on playcalling duties? But he would have been so much more up for it if he had gotten the HC gig? Come on... 

 

"Disgrace to the coaching profession" "Regardless what happens what happened in Indianapolis is a travesty"? How is that warranted and not highfalutin hyperbole and nonsense? Let me spell it out - what Bill Cowher is doing is gatekeeping. He would rather see proven losers get 2nd and 3d and 4th chances over a new guy get a shot. This is how the old boys club works - it doesn't matter what you do and how bad you were before - you keep getting hired again and again and again... Which is OK... he has the right think it and say it, but lets be clear about what is actually happening. 

 

Just spare me the melodramatic hyperbole, Bill. And again... keep in mind we are talking about INTERIM HC job. Nobody has given Jeff Saturday long-term contract. None of this warranted such vitriolic response and especially Jeff Saturday didn't deserve any of it. 

 

Yeah, I think you're way off track. I've said enough about Bill Cowher's comments already.

[DougDew]

33 minutes ago, Myles said:

So you think that even though Irsay didn't want either Bradley or Fox to be the head coach, he should have given it to them anyway?   That is silly.  I am also a manager where I work and I would never give a position to someone I didn't want to give it to.   I understand people backing Fox for this because he has taken teams to the Superbowl, but of the 16 seasons he was the head coach, 10 of the seasons his team was .500 or less.  

I'm not following the details of this issue, so there may be stuff out there that I don't know.

 

Has Cowher even asked the question of WHY Irsay thinks Saturday is better for the job?  What makes him more qualified?

 

We assume Irsay think Jeff needs to look at the oline (that was the basis if that one phone call apparently...what the H is going on with the oline).   Is Saturday better qualified to give Irsay a hands on opinion of the oline than Strausser, Gus, or anybody else?  Does Irsay trust Jeff's judgment about other players, coaches, etc. more than the staff already there? 

 

If so, then Jeff is, in fact, the most qualified person for the role that Irsay wants his IHC to have this season.

 

Maybe Cowher should ask why Irsay thought that Jeff was such an important piece to this decision, what is he supposed to do as an IHC, instead of just making the assumption that owners name IHCs to do the things Cowher thinks they should do.

[Myles]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I'm not following the details of this issue, so there may be stuff out there that I don't know.

 

Has Cowher even asked the question of WHY Irsay thinks Saturday is better for the job?  What makes him more qualified?

 

We assume Irsay think Jeff needs to look at the oline (that was the basis if that one phone call apparently...what the H is going on with the oline).   Is Saturday better qualified to give Irsay a hands on opinion of the oline than Strausser, Gus, or anybody else?

 

Maybe Cowher should ask why Irsay thought that Jeff was such an important piece to this decision, what is he supposed to do as an IHC, instead of just making the assumption that owners name IHCs to ride out the season because of an admission your HC stinks.

I don't think he did.  He was only focused on them not giving it to a guy who has been coaching many years.

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, Myles said:

I don't think he did.  He was only focused on them not giving it to a guy who has been coaching many years.

Yeah, he's just reacting from his point of view about what he thinks the role of an IHC should be....or usually is.   

 

From the beginning, most of us thought that the hire/transition was weird, probably because Irsay had some unconventional motivations. 

 

Maybe explore that angle before spouting off the spittle.

[Solid84]

I’ve said before and will say again - I like Saturday. Just to make it clear. 
 

I do however think Irsay is crapping all over the in-house coaches and the coaching profession in general. 
 

“But maybe he doesn’t have any confidence the in-house coaches can get it done, based on their previous HC performance” - that’s fine, but how exactly does that lead one to thinking picking a former player without any coaching experience is the solution?

 

If he wanted to go outside the organisation there are many other choices with coaching experience. 
 

I appreciate it’s “just” a IHC for 8 weeks, but nothing is going to change my mind that this is Irsay impulsively hiring his good friend even if it is just for the rest of the season. 
 

I don’t however buy into the whole “bypassing the Rooney Rule” baloney. It’s an IHC-job and Irsay has used minorities before for that and the actual HC-job. Spare me. 

[Superman]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

What about John Lynch? He had no experience of any type of coaching or management and played Safety in the league - he wasn't a QB, not 1 person was bothered by him getting hired as GM for one the greatest franchises ever. Lynch has turned out as one of the GM's in football.

 

This is demonstrably false. The criticisms of Lynch being hired by the 49ers basically hit the same notes as the criticism of the Saturday hire: skipped the line, got hired because he was friends with Kyle Shanahan, made a joke of the Rooney Rule, etc. Except Lynch was not the first former player with no front office experience to be hired as GM, that was Matt Millen, who most certainly was not one of the best GMs in football.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18582431/john-lynch-new-job-san-francisco-49ers-general-manager-head-scratcher-some

[DougDew]

35 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

“But maybe he doesn’t have any confidence the in-house coaches can get it done, based on their previous HC performance” - that’s fine, but how exactly does that lead one to thinking picking a former player without any coaching experience is the solution?

What this situation points to is that Irsay thinks that Saturday is the most qualified person to do the job over anybody else, because the job he wants done is different than what typically happens in this situation.   Getting something done that the other guys are less qualified to do.  Putting a fresh set of eyes on the entire roster, scheme, culture, etc. would be one role for Jeff that would not be a role that a typical in-house IHC would have.  

 

Jeff eluded to that in his presser when he said that he played 12 years of winning football around all pros and HOFers so he has seen how they prepare and know what winning culture looks like.   That's a more important answer to get for the remainder of the season than to worry about what IHC is more qualified to build a game plan or set up a practice schedule for the week.  JMO.

[Superman]

15 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I do however think Irsay is crapping all over the in-house coaches and the coaching profession in general. 

 

To be clear, I don't care about this. The in-house coaches weren't doing a good job. While I was getting frustrated with Reich and wondering if he would be fired, one of my concerns was that we'd turn to John Fox or Gus Bradley, neither of whom are inspiring to me. 

 

And I don't care too much about the standard operating procedure of hiring coaches, because there is no secret formula to hiring good coaches. I was shocked by Saturday's hire, but I viewed it as Irsay bringing in somebody he trusts and believes in, to figure out what's going on with the team, and what needs to happen next.

 

So I'm not co-signing all the outrage. I think a lot of the so-called "outrage" is being misrepresented by Colts fans. My point with Cowher is 'here's a reputable guy who is saying the same thing all those unnamed sources were saying, so let's stop calling unnamed sources fake.' Not saying I agree with him or think his argument means Irsay was wrong.

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

What’s getting funny is those of you who keep trying to prove your point by bringing up unrelated instances. First it was Cower skipping over qualified college grads, now Deon skipped over qualified HBCU assistants.

 

But you answered your own questions when you said there were hundreds of HBCU assistants he supposedly jumped over. How many of those assistants were big enough names that they could have helped with recruiting? College is different from the NFL in many ways. You need to be able to recruit. Deon brings in recruits including getting a 5 star recruit from FSU to flip. Not only that but HBCUs are historically underfunded as well. Deon pumped a lot of his personal money into that program (remodeling the team locker room, equipment, etc…). Not something just any coach can do.

 

A few of you in here are desperately grasping at straws here. It’s clear not many people know what types of experience is needed for every job and what the qualifications are. These arguments have no basis because they are based on perceived needs and anecdotal evidence.

 

If you wanted to make a better argument you’d talk about Mike Mayock (an NFL network analyst who barely played in the league) jumping over qualified GM candidates who actually had FO experience. You’d be answered with the fact that Mike being fired aside, many people in the media scrutinized the hire the same way people are now with Jeff, which is the whole point. This type of reaction isn’t unique to the Colts.  

 

I'm pointing hypocritical and convenient views. 

I'm on the record saying I don't care if hires jump the line. I'm a fan of Sanders at JSU. The profession is not "sacred". 

So yet some defend Thomas and Cowher, yet ignore similar situations, and ignore their previous argument/logic.

So is it "paid dues", or dues don't matter? If Jeff's hire is egregious, then so Sanders hire is too. 

IMO, both are fine. If you argument one is OK, and the other is not, you're failing logic. Hypocrisy. 

 

[EastStreet]

6 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

You do realize that Sanders had experience coaching high school right? If coaching in college is the minimum for coaching in the NFL, than it stands To reason that coaching high school ball is enough experience to get a shot in college at a small non-power 5 HBCU. College and NFL do not have the same rules.

lol... 

Dues.... 

I guess HBCU "dues" don't matter. Just NFL... 

[crazycolt1]

I was just watching Greeney and he has come around defending Irsay and the hiring of Jeff. He pointed out that there have been 17 head coaches hired over the last 2 years. There are only 5 head coach that have held their jobs over 5 years. His point of view is the old ways were not working and there is absolutely nothing wrong with hiring outside of the so called norm. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

The commissioner should give cower the job of being in charged of all NFL coaching hires. 

[NFLfan]

7 hours ago, Myles said:

That is an understatement.  Reich got fired, the team has been performing horribly and Cowherd wanted them to promote someone from Reichs "tree".   

 

Fox never won a Superbowl, despite making it to the game.  

Most remember John from his Carolina days when he only made the playoffs 3 of the 9 years he coached there.   I would prefer Saturday as the interim head coach.  Letting Gus or John have it would mean that we may lose them in the offseason.  They will have to interview others for the spot.  If Gus or John didn't get it, they would probably quit.

 

I thought Fox won a Super Bowl as defensive coordinator of the Giants. I guess not. 

[EastStreet]

57 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

The commissioner should give cower the job of being in charged of all NFL coaching hires. 

 

The Keeper of the Code.. lol... 

[EastStreet]

10 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I thought Fox won a Super Bowl as defensive coordinator of the Giants. I guess not. 

 

Our O is the problem. Fox really doesn't help with the O. 

[Defjamz26]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

Hopefully I can explain my opinion more clearly.  

 

Cowher is complaining that other coaches were "passed over".  Some others might be thinking that black coaches were also passed over.  No.  There was no vacancy in the HC position.   The position transitioned from HC Frank to IHC Jeff without there ever being a "job posting".  The transition never would have occurred unless Jeff was available.  So if Jeff was not available, Frank would still be HC and there would still be no vacancy.   Nobody got passed over because the situation to get passed over never existed.  Irsay hired Jeff to get better performance out of the HC position for the remainder of the year than he was getting from Frank (and to probably do a org evaluation).  There was no imminent HC vacancy. 

 

There is no NFL rule to post a IHC job, for good reason.  There is no time to vet candidates in any meaningful way because the staff has to start preparing for the next battle immediately.  Its like a hospital ER where you want to have better leadership than you have at the critical moment...you grab who you want...no time to vet.  Most other temporary jobs in the world aren't that time intense.

 

When its time to fill the HC vacancy, then the job will be posted and the process will transpire according to NFL policy.  And, yes, Jeff will probably have a leg up since he will now have experience.  Too bad for others. That's life.

 

 

 

So you’re saying that no one got passed over because it was all contingent on if Jeff said yes or not?

 

That doesn’t make sense to me. He wanted to make a HC change but had a specific person in mind that he wanted to be the interim. That person in his mind wasn’t on the staff so he called Saturday.

 

Youre saying there wasn’t a vacancy or opportunity because he fired Frank to get Saturday. He made an upgrade and didn’t fill a vacant position. That much I get, but I think it’s the same in principle. He handed someone an opportunity and didn’t follow due process. The whole there was technically never a vacany argument is a moot point. If anything that’s actually worse. That may be unprecedented in the NFL where an in season upgrade was made without regard to the current staff. 

[ruf]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Hopefully I can explain my opinion more clearly.  

 

Cowher is complaining that other coaches were "passed over".  Some others might be thinking that black coaches were also passed over.  No.  There was no vacancy in the HC position.   The position transitioned from HC Frank to IHC Jeff without there ever being a "job posting".  The transition never would have occurred unless Jeff was available.  So if Jeff was not available, Frank would still be HC and there would still be no vacancy.   Nobody got passed over because the situation to get passed over never existed.  Irsay hired Jeff to get better performance out of the HC position for the remainder of the year than he was getting from Frank (and to probably do a org evaluation).  There was no imminent HC vacancy. 

 

There is no NFL rule to post a IHC job, for good reason.  There is no time to vet candidates in any meaningful way because the staff has to start preparing for the next battle immediately.  Its like a hospital ER where you want to have better leadership than you have at the critical moment...you grab who you want...no time to vet.  Most other temporary jobs in the world aren't that time intense.

 

When its time to fill the HC vacancy, then the job will be posted and the process will transpire according to NFL policy.  And, yes, Jeff will probably have a leg up since he will now have experience.  Too bad for others. That's life.

 

 

 

i think it was like the CW thing they traded him before they got Mattie Ice

I think he was fired and if Jeff was not going to take the job then Fox would have been named the IMT coach

[Defjamz26]

3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

lol... 

Dues.... 

I guess HBCU "dues" don't matter. Just NFL... 

You don’t understand the process in college sports at all. You’re creating your own interpretation of what that process is to fit your narrative. Yes college and the NFL are two totally different processes.

 

The best ability a college HC needs to have is the ability to recruit. If you can’t get any decent prospects in the door then your program is never going to be any good. Sanders is a big name who can get recruits to come. If you’ve studied anything that he has done at Jackson State you can see the impact he has had on that program.

 

Again, he did have experience. He is a HOF NFL player and he coached High School football. If nothing else, you want a candidate to at least have experience coaching one level below the current level they are going to. So if it’s the NFL you’d like a guy to at the minimum have coached at the collegiate level. Thus, if you’re hiring a guy for a college HC job, you’d at least want him to have coached at the high school level. 
 

What you’re doing is reaching. You keep talking about HBCU candidates and dues as if you can name a list of top candidates. It’s a bad take that you can’t actually hold up because you have no real knowledge of the process you are trying to hold up as evidence. 
 

It’s also just convenient. Both Sanders and Bill Cowher we’re minding their own business and no one here had a problem with them. All of a sudden Deon didn’t pay his dues and Cowher jumped over more qualified people with broadcast journalism degrees. It doesn’t make any sense no matter how you twist it.

 

And if that’s true for Cowher, why not call out Romo? He went straight from the field to the booth as well. Or is he safe until he’s critical of the Colts?

[chickenMan]

How many years of successful coaching did Urban Meyer have before becoming the Jags head coach? How did that turn out?

 

Looking at real life examples, how much business/computing experience did Steve Jobs have when he started Apple? Sometimes you don’t have to be the most experienced to be the most successful, you just need the smarts and the willpower. You would think Cowher would realize this, considering how he went from former player to head coach in just two years.
 

Oh well, expecting anyone associated with the Steelers to have any integrity is probably a pointless endeavor anyway, so best to let sleeping dogs lie for now.

[DougDew]

28 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

So you’re saying that no one got passed over because it was all contingent on if Jeff said yes or not?

 

That doesn’t make sense to me. He wanted to make a HC change but had a specific person in mind that he wanted to be the interim. That person in his mind wasn’t on the staff so he called Saturday.

 

Youre saying there wasn’t a vacancy or opportunity because he fired Frank to get Saturday. He made an upgrade and didn’t fill a vacant position. That much I get, but I think it’s the same in principle. He handed someone an opportunity and didn’t follow due process. The whole there was technically never a vacany argument is a moot point. If anything that’s actually worse. That may be unprecedented in the NFL where an in season upgrade was made without regard to the current staff. 

I think it comes down to Irsay knowing what he wanted on the sidelines...not necessarily a traditional coach given certain other duties I think he wants Saturday to report on.

 

Irsay did not have to post a job and interview candidates to gauge their qualifications and philosophy for the job he was looking to fill.  If Jeff said no, he would not have opened the job that he felt only Jeff could do.  IOW, he's not going to trust Gus to give him the skinny on offensive personnel or culture.  So Irsay does not create the job that only Jeff can do if he feels Jeff won't say yes. 

 

Most job positions in life are more traditional with a number of candidates qualified to do it..... that's why they're posted to a public board.  And the rules allow Irsay to do it this way.  Nobody was passed over for this particular job given (what I think is) its unique duties, IMO.

[Myles]

39 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I thought Fox won a Super Bowl as defensive coordinator of the Giants. I guess not. 

He did but as you said, he was the D coordinator.  

[Myles]

5 minutes ago, chickenMan said:

How many years of successful coaching did Urban Meyer have before becoming the Jags head coach? How did that turn out?

 

Looking at real life examples, how much business/computing experience did Steve Jobs have when he started Apple? Sometimes you don’t have to be the most experienced to be the most successful, you just need the smarts and the willpower. You would think Cowher would realize this, considering how he went from former player to head coach in just two years.
 

Oh well, expecting anyone associated with the Steelers to have any integrity is probably a pointless endeavor anyway, so best to let sleeping dogs lie for now.

I agree.  An inexperienced head coach can do well if he is surrounded by good assistants.   He delegated play calling duties which was a good move for him.  He has spent most of his time with the offense, which is also good.  He's showing trust in Gus.  

[EastStreet]

10 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

You don’t understand the process in college sports at all. You’re creating your own interpretation of what that process is to fit your narrative. Yes college and the NFL are two totally different processes.

 

The best ability a college HC needs to have is the ability to recruit. If you can’t get any decent prospects in the door then your program is never going to be any good. Sanders is a big name who can get recruits to come. If you’ve studied anything that he has done at Jackson State you can see the impact he has had on that program.

 

Again, he did have experience. He is a HOF NFL player and he coached High School football. If nothing else, you want a candidate to at least have experience coaching one level below the current level they are going to. So if it’s the NFL you’d like a guy to at the minimum have coached at the collegiate level. Thus, if you’re hiring a guy for a college HC job, you’d at least want him to have coached at the high school level. 
 

What you’re doing is reaching. You keep talking about HBCU candidates and dues as if you can name a list of top candidates. It’s a bad take that you can’t actually hold up because you have no real knowledge of the process you are trying to hold up as evidence. 
 

It’s also just convenient. Both Sanders and Bill Cowher we’re minding their own business and no one here had a problem with them. All of a sudden Deon didn’t pay his dues and Cowher jumped over more qualified people with broadcast journalism degrees. It doesn’t make any sense no matter how you twist it.

 

And if that’s true for Cowher, why not call out Romo? He went straight from the field to the booth as well. Or is he safe until he’s critical of the Colts?

 

lol.. 

Many called Cowher "too young"... Not sure about your age, but it was discussed back then. 

And nobody complained about Sanders, because the notoriety he brought. 

 

But hey, keep ignoring, and being convenient with your logic.  

[Myles]

20 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

lol.. 

Many called Cowher "too young"... Not sure about your age, but it was discussed back then. 

And nobody complained about Sanders, because the notoriety he brought. 

 

But hey, keep ignoring, and being convenient with your logic.  

College is different because most hires are made for the recruiting boom.  

That doesn't explain vrabel getting a head coaching job after only being an assistant for a couple years or Cowher getting one of the best, if not the best, head coaching jobs in the NFL at only 34 years old.  

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, Myles said:

College is different because most hires are made for the recruiting boom.  

That doesn't explain vrabel getting a head coaching job after only being an assistant for a couple years or Cowher getting one of the best, if not the best, head coaching jobs in the NFL at only 34 years old.  

Disagree. I following recruiting, closely. Not I like used to, but I still follow. I used to have Rivals, 247, Scout, etc.. 

If you look at the big programs, they hire because of track record, program affiliation, etc.. but recruiting is a factor. 

Look at the typical top 25 teams.. they have HCs that have experience, and good track records. 

I'm totally good with Sanders. Everyone new he would bring notoriety and recruiting. I'm OK with that. 

He still jumped the line, more than anyone ever has done before. And the HBCUs should do more of it. 

 

Also... several articles about Jeff's situation, suggests will likely push McCown into a HC job now. Some pro and negative

https://www.nfl.com/news/jeff-saturday-brings-passion-back-to-matt-ryan-colts-in-debut-as-interim-coach

https://texanswire.usatoday.com/2022/11/07/colts-give-texans-excuse-hire-josh-mccown/

https://flipboard.com/topic/nfl/from-josh-mccown-to-jeff-saturday-it-s-impossible-for-black-coaches-in-the-nfl/a-66OZgO7YTFKScTZY94bm2w%3Aa%3A221841707-4d90a52dbf%2Fdeadspin.com

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

You don’t understand the process in college sports at all. You’re creating your own interpretation of what that process is to fit your narrative. Yes college and the NFL are two totally different processes.

 

The best ability a college HC needs to have is the ability to recruit. If you can’t get any decent prospects in the door then your program is never going to be any good. Sanders is a big name who can get recruits to come. If you’ve studied anything that he has done at Jackson State you can see the impact he has had on that program.

 

Again, he did have experience. He is a HOF NFL player and he coached High School football. If nothing else, you want a candidate to at least have experience coaching one level below the current level they are going to. So if it’s the NFL you’d like a guy to at the minimum have coached at the collegiate level. Thus, if you’re hiring a guy for a college HC job, you’d at least want him to have coached at the high school level. 
 

What you’re doing is reaching. You keep talking about HBCU candidates and dues as if you can name a list of top candidates. It’s a bad take that you can’t actually hold up because you have no real knowledge of the process you are trying to hold up as evidence. 
 

It’s also just convenient. Both Sanders and Bill Cowher we’re minding their own business and no one here had a problem with them. All of a sudden Deon didn’t pay his dues and Cowher jumped over more qualified people with broadcast journalism degrees. It doesn’t make any sense no matter how you twist it.

 

And if that’s true for Cowher, why not call out Romo? He went straight from the field to the booth as well. Or is he safe until he’s critical of the Colts?

No one cares about Deion or Bill Cowher and their credentials.   It's pointing out Bills hypocrisy.    

[dw49]

7 hours ago, stitches said:

We are reading this very differently. IMO it was Frank's performance. If Frank's performance was better he wouldn't be on the block. IMO Frank's fate was already sealed - it was either going to be - Frank gets fired now and Irsay gets his guy in to tell him what's going on inside or Frank gets fired in the off-season without the benefit of Irsay getting trusted info in the meantime. The Saturday availability was a plus and accelerator, not the main reason. 

 

Agree with you. Also if you look at those last 2 games in 2021 , it turned out to be a glimpse of the future. The team was so uninspired and it carried into 2022. Reich is no doubt a great individual but his team was a hot mess and the firing IMO was deserved.

[OLD FAN MAN]

On 11/14/2022 at 11:04 PM, Dobbinblitz said:

Saturday responds to Cower criticism.

 

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/colts_jeff_saturday_responds_to_bill_cowher_calling_hiring_a_disgrace/s1_13132_38120415

what a classy answer

[Myles]

19 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

what a classy answer

He took the high road unlike Cowher did.  Good for him.

[Defjamz26]

2 hours ago, chickenMan said:

How many years of successful coaching did Urban Meyer have before becoming the Jags head coach? How did that turn out?

 

Looking at real life examples, how much business/computing experience did Steve Jobs have when he started Apple? Sometimes you don’t have to be the most experienced to be the most successful, you just need the smarts and the willpower. You would think Cowher would realize this, considering how he went from former player to head coach in just two years.
 

Oh well, expecting anyone associated with the Steelers to have any integrity is probably a pointless endeavor anyway, so best to let sleeping dogs lie for now.

With Cower (and even Vrabel to an extent) they were at least recently around the game of football recently enough. Saturday hadn’t been in a lockeroom or the NFL since 2013. 

[Dingus McGirt]

9 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Don’t get me wrong, I’m rooting for Saturday. I just think the process was unjust. It diminishes what guys like Bradley and Fox have done in the league. Bradley may not have been good with the Jags but his defense has been playing great here. Fox has been the the SB twice.  Literally every time a HC is fired mid-season or away because of a suspension or medical, the interim coach always is someone on staff. You’re giving your people a chance to audition. Whether it be here or somewhere else, that’s just the way the game goes. It’s the right thing to do.

 

Bringing in an outsider who has never even coached is the owner telling the staff, “I don’t think any of you are good enough to coach this team in the short term”. Now I’m sure there are some ulterior motives there from Irsay, but it’s still an insult. More so the fact that you didn’t even let anyone interview. 
 

And I’m saying this as someone who is a manager at my job. You have to always give your internal candidates a chance to at least apply. Especially when the guys already under you have more experience than the external.

Unjust…

[EastStreet]

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

With Cower (and even Vrabel to an extent) they were at least recently around the game of football recently enough. Saturday hadn’t been in a lockeroom or the NFL since 2013. 

So what? Like football has changed since 2013?