Bill Cower

[Superman]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

Not asking to be argumentative. Legit asking because I don’t remember.  What was the reaction to Elway getting that gig in Denver?  If I recall Elway didn’t have a front office background either.

 

I don't remember a lot of reaction to Elway. But he had a unique profile as well. Aside from his business operations, he was co-owner of an AFL team for several years. Then when he joined the Broncos, he did so as VP of Football Ops, Joe Ellis was the president, and the general manager was Brian Xanders. Xanders left after one season, and Elway took over as GM. So he had some relevant experience, and a soft landing with the Broncos where he worked with other experienced front office people who showed him the ropes before he took over the day to day operations.

 

And this is after a few years of people trying to get him to go work for the Broncos in some capacity. That was probably the least surprising front office hire of all time. Lynch and the Niners purposely kept his candidacy quiet until he was hired, so there was a shock factor there.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, Superman said:

 

I don't remember a lot of reaction to Elway. But he had a unique profile as well. Aside from his business operations, he was co-owner of an AFL team for several years. Then when he joined the Broncos, he did so as VP of Football Ops, Joe Ellis was the president, and the general manager was Brian Xanders. Xanders left after one season, and Elway took over as GM. So he had some relevant experience, and a soft landing with the Broncos where he worked with other experienced front office people who showed him the ropes before he took over the day to day operations.

 

And this is after a few years of people trying to get him to go work for the Broncos in some capacity. That was probably the least surprising front office hire of all time. Lynch and the Niners purposely kept his candidacy quiet until he was hired, so there was a shock factor there.

I forgot about his time owning the Rush.  

[Superman]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

After thinking about this for a few days I have backed off the Cower issue taking the job as a commentator.  But his rant about Irsay hiring Jeff was way out of line. If I'm not wrong I think Jeff was still on the field at the same age that Cower became a head coach.  Looking back on Cower's playing days he was a special teams player. He wasn't in the trenches like Jeff was. Jeff's playing  career towers Cower's.  Cower didn't go through what he describes as a long time in waiting to get a head coaches job so I find his comments ignorant.  

 

To the bolded, that's cool. Like I said, I don't agree, he spoke strongly but I don't think his comments were as personal as people here took them to be. At least, not to me. 

 

But to the part about Cowher's "long time in waiting" and stuff, you're basically being critical of him because he climbed the ranks faster than you think he should have? He was a rising star in the coaching ranks, which is why he was (I believe?) the youngest HC in NFL history at the time. 

 

Just think we're still being kind of nitpicky with Cowher's bio here. 

 

But if we want to really point out some 'good ol' boys club' activity with Cowher, here it is: He played for the Browns for three years, under HC Marty Schottenheimer. His last year as a player was 1984, then in 1985 he joined the Browns coaching staff as STs coach, working under Schottenheimer. In 1989, Schottenheimer went to KC as HC, and Bill Cowher went with him as defensive coordinator. Three years later, he was hired by the Steelers. We could probably argue that his break as a coach came from his relationship with Schottenheimer. It's still different from walking in as the HC, but there's some favoritism involved there. 

[crazycolt1]

58 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

To the bolded, that's cool. Like I said, I don't agree, he spoke strongly but I don't think his comments were as personal as people here took them to be. At least, not to me. 

 

But to the part about Cowher's "long time in waiting" and stuff, you're basically being critical of him because he climbed the ranks faster than you think he should have? He was a rising star in the coaching ranks, which is why he was (I believe?) the youngest HC in NFL history at the time. 

 

Just think we're still being kind of nitpicky with Cowher's bio here. 

 

But if we want to really point out some 'good ol' boys club' activity with Cowher, here it is: He played for the Browns for three years, under HC Marty Schottenheimer. His last year as a player was 1984, then in 1985 he joined the Browns coaching staff as STs coach, working under Schottenheimer. In 1989, Schottenheimer went to KC as HC, and Bill Cowher went with him as defensive coordinator. Three years later, he was hired by the Steelers. We could probably argue that his break as a coach came from his relationship with Schottenheimer. It's still different from walking in as the HC, but there's some favoritism involved there. 

 He was a benefactor of exactly what he was ranting about. What Irsay and Saturday did was not a disgrace nor a travesty. That only exists in narrow minded people who can't see outside the box. At the Leadership Conference he spoke of work ethics and leadership and how that transfers into the work force.  Saturday more than fits the narrative of that issue.  

[NewColtsFan]

13 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

Your argument is so flawed.

 

It relies on the premise that the only population of people that Cower skipped are students, or recently graduated students. It also relies on the secondary premise that the position is "specifically for insiders" this again, is not true. 

 

postsecondary degree in journalism, communication, broadcasting, or a related field. If you plan to specialize in statistical sports analysis, you must have a background in math, statistics, or a related subject.

 

As for the student portion, that is false, there are specific degrees that specialize in sports broadcasting, and it has always existed. You dont need to be a former player, or coach to be informative and analytical pertaining to sports. Also, to completely ignore the various populations of people like beat writters, sports podcasts, former players turned journalist, there are many reporters and journalistic populations of people that did not coach, or play, that would be qualified to speak about sports. Nor is there any declaration anywhere that states you must be a former player or coach, and that there are no other populations of people in competition for those jobs.

 

 

edit: "The "analyst" role is almost entirely populated by former players and coaches, not people who studied journalism." - Superman

 

this very statement by you shows that they are skipping the line. and just be cause the current demographics are dominated by those who skipped over the students, and other aspiring journalist does not justify or disprove, that they also got some form of priviledge of being a former player or coach. 

Former players and coaches aren’t skipping the line.   They’re in an entirely different line.   They’re an analyst who used to be in the league.   They have real world experience.   Journalism students are analysts from outside the league.   They bring a different perspective.   But they’re not in competition with former execs in players.   
 

This is a false comparison.   It is not an apples to apples comparison.  

[AKB]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Former players and coaches aren’t skipping the line.   They’re in an entirely different line.   They’re an analyst who used to be in the league.   They have real world experience.   Journalism students are analysts from outside the league.   They bring a different perspective.   But they’re not in competition with former execs in players.   
 

This is a false comparison.   It is not an apples to apples comparison.  

First of all: we are talking about journalists in general. NOT STUDENTS

 

its not a false comparison, sports journalists exist. but im not gonna argue it again, its a matter of difference of opinion, not falsehood. you can read my posts in this thread for how i feel on it. 

 

sports analyst =  sports jourmalist

 

plenty of sports journaslists exist that are not former player/coach

 

Rich Eisen is a great exmaple, of someone who is a sports journalist/analyst that did not coach or play football. This is definitely a legitimate comparison. 

 

1990–1996

Eisen was first a staff writer for the Staten Island Advance from 1990 to 1993, and the Chicago Tribune in 1993 and 1994. He was then a sports anchor and reporter at KRCR-TV in Redding, California, from 1994 to 1996, and also worked in television as the Medill News Service's Washington correspondent (1994).[1]

 

ESPN (1996–2003)

Before working for the NFL Network, he worked for ESPN. He was part of a duo with Stuart Scott, and became well known for his humor, most notably his impressions of Atlanta Braves broadcaster Skip Caray and provided interviews during the Home Run Derby. Eisen was also the host of ESPN's reality series, Beg, Borrow & Deal. For ESPN Radio, he served as host of Major League Baseball and as a guest host on The Tony Kornheiser Show and The Dan Patrick Show. Outside of the world of sports, Eisen hosted the ABC show Domino Day.

NFL Network (2003–present)

 

The Rich Eisen Show (2014–present)

 

See that? regular staff writer. regular anchor... becomes a sports analyst. There are THOUSANDS of people like Rich. Starting out as staff writers, starting out as draft analysts doing big boards, starting out as journalist here, journalist there. Sports analyst is for anyone who has enough information to analyze sports. If you wanna shake your head and say these two aren't the same thing, that comes down to opinion, not fact. As for the facts, they are all above. And just because you disagree, doesn't make what Im saying wrong. 

 

 

 

so here is a perfect example of a young JOURNALIST who worked his way up to sports analyst. there are thousands and thousands of people like a young Eisen, who are aspirinng to make it on shows like ESPN, NFL netwrok, MOST OF THE TIME these journalists are overlooked for former players/head coaches

 

if you can't find the parallel, there's nothing else to discuss. i've laid the facts out as best I can without writting a full essay/ 

[AKB]

@NewColtsFan i repsect you as a poster and things like that, but I feel like @Superman and I already discussed it to the fullest extent, so that's why im just gonna respond and leave it alone. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

First of all: we are talking about journalists in general. NOT STUDENTS

 

its not a false comparison, sports journalists exist. but im not gonna argue it again, its a matter of difference of opinion, not falsehood. you can read my posts in this thread for how i feel on it. 

 

sports analyst =  sports jourmalist

 

plenty of sports journaslists exist that are not former player/coach

 

Rich Eisen is a great exmaple, of someone who is a sports journalist/analyst that did not coach or play football. This is definitely a legitimate comparison. 

 

1990–1996

Eisen was first a staff writer for the Staten Island Advance from 1990 to 1993, and the Chicago Tribune in 1993 and 1994. He was then a sports anchor and reporter at KRCR-TV in Redding, California, from 1994 to 1996, and also worked in television as the Medill News Service's Washington correspondent (1994).[1]

 

ESPN (1996–2003)

Before working for the NFL Network, he worked for ESPN. He was part of a duo with Stuart Scott, and became well known for his humor, most notably his impressions of Atlanta Braves broadcaster Skip Caray and provided interviews during the Home Run Derby. Eisen was also the host of ESPN's reality series, Beg, Borrow & Deal. For ESPN Radio, he served as host of Major League Baseball and as a guest host on The Tony Kornheiser Show and The Dan Patrick Show. Outside of the world of sports, Eisen hosted the ABC show Domino Day.

NFL Network (2003–present)

 

The Rich Eisen Show (2014–present)

 

See that? regular staff writer. regular anchor... becomes a sports analyst. There are THOUSANDS of people like Rich. Starting out as staff writers, starting out as draft analysts doing big boards, starting out as journalist here, journalist there. Sports analyst is for anyone who has enough information to analyze sports. If you wanna shake your head and say these two aren't the same thing, that comes down to opinion, not fact. As for the facts, they are all above. And just because you disagree, doesn't make what Im saying wrong. 

 

 

 

so here is a perfect example of a young JOURNALIST who worked his way up to sports analyst. there are thousands and thousands of people like a young Eisen, who are aspirinng to make it on shows like ESPN, NFL netwrok, MOST OF THE TIME these journalists are overlooked for former players/head coaches

 

if you can't find the parallel, there's nothing else to discuss. i've laid the facts out as best I can without writting a full essay/ 

Rich Eisen is a Host!! 
 

A former coach or player is NOT taking his job.    Like I said….   Two different lines.   Not jumping past other people in the same line.   
 

I’ve deliberately stayed out of this discussion because it was clear there were few if any who wanted to deal with a disagreement.   Superman’s argument is correct and people STILL wouldn’t budge.  
So I thought it was time for me, the media guide, to step into the conversation.  

 

Not surprised you’re still disagreeing.  That’s the nature of this website, this season more than ever. 
 

 

[AKB]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Rich Eisen is a Host!! 
 

A former coach or player is NOT taking his job.    Like I said….   Two different lines.   Not jumping past other people in the same line.   
 

I’ve deliberately stayed out of this discussion because it was clear there were few if any who wanted to deal with a disagreement.   Superman’s argument is correct and people STILL wouldn’t budge.  
So I thought it was time for me, the media guide, to step into the conversation.  

 

Not surprised you’re still disagreeing.  That’s the nature of this website, this season more than ever. 
 

 

yeah, two people can disagree, without either one being worse than the other. 

 

call Eisen whatever you want. he talks about sports. he is therefore, a sports analyst. pat mcafee, is also, a sports analyst, while also being a sports journalist.

 

there is no absolute way to view it. if you want to seperate them, you can. but they are one in the same. tomatoe, tomatoe. 

 

 

also... you clearly aren't getting the point if your response is "Eisen is a host!!"

 

clearly you don't understand. a journalist, is a journalist. (and there are THOUSNADS< AND THOUSANDS) it does not matter what secondary title you want to put on it. especially, when you have people who specifically study sports journalism. 

 

 

but as said before, think what you want, what you eat doesn't make me poo. 

 

 

and to be clear. NFL talking heads and pundits, aren't really analysts. it's just a term , a layman term actually, that people got comfortable using. in reality, they aren't analyzing anything. and most of it is pure opinion, related to events. 

 

"A sports analyst is a person looking through technical, tactical, physiological, and psychological performance metrics working with the sports coach and sports science team to improve athlete performances. They will often use Video motion analysis to help with data collection."

 

The people you see on TV? entertainers, reporting events, responding to events. they aren't even analysts. they don't do much analyzing, unless you call recapping highlights an analyst. far from it. they're news anchors for the NFL. it ain't no different buddy. Why you think evey NFL show, ESPN show are set up the same way a news station is? Because most of what they're doing is... wait for it... discussing the news. Sound familiar? Sports journalist. 

 

 

Reminds me of The Office. Assistant regional manager vs assistant TO the regional manager. don't get em confused

[NewColtsFan]

18 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

yeah, two people can disagree, without either one being worse than the other. 

 

call Eisen whatever you want. he talks about sports. he is therefore, a sports analyst. pat mcafee, is also, a sports analyst, while also being a sports journalist.

 

there is no absolute way to view it. if you want to seperate them, you can. but they are one in the same. tomatoe, tomatoe. 

 

 

also... you clearly aren't getting the point if your response is "Eisen is a host!!"

 

clearly you don't understand. a journalist, is a journalist. (and there are THOUSNADS< AND THOUSANDS) it does not matter what secondary title you want to put on it. especially, when you have people who specifically study sports journalism. 

 

 

but as said before, think what you want, what you eat doesn't make me poo. 

 

 

and to be clear. NFL talking heads and pundits, aren't really analysts. it's just a term , a layman term actually, that people got comfortable using. in reality, they aren't analyzing anything. and most of it is pure opinion, related to events. 

 

"A sports analyst is a person looking through technical, tactical, physiological, and psychological performance metrics working with the sports coach and sports science team to improve athlete performances. They will often use Video motion analysis to help with data collection."

 

The people you see on TV? entertainers, reporting events, responding to events. they aren't even analysts. they don't do much analyzing, unless you call recapping highlights an analyst. far from it. they're news anchors for the NFL. it ain't no different buddy. Why you think evey NFL show, ESPN show are set up the same way a news station is? Because most of what they're doing is... wait for it... discussing the news. Sound familiar? Sports journalist. 

 

 

Reminds me of The Office. Assistant regional manager vs assistant TO the regional manager. don't get em confused

“Clearly I don’t understand” !?!   

 

Me and my 30 years as a producer-writer in the Los Angeles market covering among many other things, the Rams and the Raiders.   And you think I don’t understand?     You might want to re-think that…..    

 

I’m sorry, but I thought you knew my background.   Clearly not, otherwise you never would’ve written that thought.

[AKB]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

“Clearly I don’t understand” !?!   

 

Me and my 30 years as a producer-writer in the Los Angeles market covering among many other things, the Rams and the Raiders.   And you think I don’t understand?     You might want to re-think that…..    

 

I’m sorry, but I thought you knew my background.   Clearly not, otherwise you never would’ve written that thought.

I don't care what your background is, I don't talk about backgrounds here, just the current discussion.

 

The reality is, they're all journalists. Your experience in journalism doesn't change that. 

 

And yes, Eisen is a journalist. Before he is a host, and you clearly don't understand that you can have both at the same time, because your post reflects that.

 

not attacking your qualifications in anything. facts are facts.

 

And if you don't think Eisen is a journalist, we aren't even on the same planet. 

[NewColtsFan]

24 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

I don't care what your background is, I don't talk about backgrounds here, just the current discussion.

 

The reality is, they're all journalists. Your experience in journalism doesn't change that. 

 

And yes, Eisen is a journalist. Before he is a host, and you clearly don't understand that you can have both at the same time, because your post reflects that.

 

not attacking your qualifications in anything. facts are facts.

 

And if you don't think Eisen is a journalist, we aren't even on the same planet. 

Here’s how lost you are in a desperate attempt to win an argument that you lost a long time ago…. 
 

I’ve never said, nor implied that Eisen wasn’t a journalist.   That thought has never entered my mind.   I don’t know where you got that from?!?  
 

All I’ve said is Eisen didn’t take a job away from a former player or coach and a former player or coach isn’t taking Rich Eisen’s  job.   They apply for different jobs.   And that’s what I’ve been saying.   They’re not fighting over one job.   One is not leaping past the other.   Two different lines for two different jobs.   Period. 
 

 

[AKB]

25 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Here’s how lost you are in a desperate attempt to win an argument that you lost a long time ago…. 
 

I’ve never said, nor implied that Eisen wasn’t a journalist.   That thought has never entered my mind.   I don’t know where you got that from?!?  
 

All I’ve said is Eisen didn’t take a job away from a former player or coach and a former player or coach isn’t taking Rich Eisen’s  job.   They apply for different jobs.   And that’s what I’ve been saying.   They’re not fighting over one job.   One is not leaping past the other.   Two different lines for two different jobs.   Period. 
 

 

what argument? there is no argument... lets be clear on that. and it is your opinion i am wrong, I haven't seen any proof to change my position. 

 

" Rich Eisen is a Host!! " that's your response to me saying Eisen is a journalist, and that is your response to me providing his career history, which is a perfect example of the type of person I am stating exists. The exact person that former players and coaches get to skip over 9/10 times. That argument, has not been lost. 

 

To be honest, you have not added anything past what Superman has already said. I have noted your disagreement, but there's really nothing here. If you don't agree to the bold, that's the part to respond to. 

 

I've given multiple arguments, multiple examples, and you respond with your job qualifications for what...? an ego boost? not sure. but it doesn't hold any weight in this discussion, only the premises and conclusion hold weight here.

 

It has drifted from the original conversation I was having with someone else, but the argument has not changed. 

 

 

Players and Coaches do get privilige in sports journalism over other journalists. This has not been disproven by Superman, or you. The best argument was by Superman in which he states its not relevant due to the norm. (Which ive already provided a premise based response) Im assuming you are following a similar state of mind, and im assuming you are using that as a foundation to say they aren't in competition for the SAME jobs. 

 

Well guess what, they are. That's why I provided to you Rich Eisens Resume to show you that those type of journalists DO exist. And they CAN be in the same competiton for the SAME jobs, that are given to players and coaches. Again, this has not been disproven. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you are reading each post in detail. but I am not quite sure now. 

 

 

also... All I’ve said is Eisen didn’t take a job away from a former player or coach and a former player or coach isn’t taking Rich Eisen’s  job - NewColtsFan

 

 

that's not even what im discussing regarding Eisen, and like I just said above, I don't think you've read the full conversation between Superman and I, otherwise you'd have more context.

 

 

The argument is that Cower is hypocritcal for using his privilige of being a former in the group of former coach/players who get jobs over other aspiring sports journalists.  While also blasting someone else for using their coach/player privlige. 

 

^^^ thats the original thread and mode of thought. So everything I've said is related to that, not the bolded part of what you're saying. that was never the point, and its completely irrelvant. 

 

Rich Eisen and those guys have the SAME job. They talk about sports. Eisen is the 1/10 that make it through, despite the bias and privlige provided to player/coaches in sports media. 

[crazycolt1]

Is there really anything else to talk about? I think all the opinions and points of views have been covered. 

Personally I agree with Patty Mac but I'm not wearing anyone else's shoes.  

[Myles]

I think Cowturds rant was that of a putz.   Wanting the Colts to hire Gus Bradley instead shows that he has lost it.  I used to like him.

[2006Coltsbestever]

47 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think Cowturds rant was that of a putz.   Wanting the Colts to hire Gus Bradley instead shows that he has lost it.  I used to like him.

I agree 100%. His rant by using the words "disgrace" and "disrespectful" were really sad. Disagreeing with the Jeff hire is one thing but his rant was way over the top.

[groundnpound]

On 11/19/2022 at 8:57 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree 100%. His rant by using the words "disgrace" and "disrespectful" were really sad. Disagreeing with the Jeff hire is one thing but his rant was way over the top.

 

 

Yep, Bill's a clown.

[gspdx]

Matt Millen.  Now I have made 2 Lions references today.  What is wrong with me.

 

If Cowher had said he didn't like the hire since Saturday didn't have any coaching experience and it is a risky move I am good with that.

 

But I feel he decided to make it personal and basically decided he is the judge on the "right" way to do it.  He is entitled to his opinion but it is not a disgrace just because he says so. 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 11/18/2022 at 1:09 AM, NewColtsFan said:

Former players and coaches aren’t skipping the line.   They’re in an entirely different line.   They’re an analyst who used to be in the league.   They have real world experience.   Journalism students are analysts from outside the league.   They bring a different perspective.   But they’re not in competition with former execs in players.   
 

This is a false comparison.   It is not an apples to apples comparison.  

Totally agree, however both Cowher and Saturday were hired on what they could bring to the organization and not what they had previously done in either broadcasting and/or  coaching. Simply said, both were a shot in the dark but it is much easier to be successful as a broad caster with no experience than a coach with no experience. Well unless u r Joe Montana who was absolutely horrible.

[EastStreet]

 

If players are in a "different line" to join the media....

 

Then...

 

Players are in a different line to join coaching and GM/FO too... (and Cowher doesn't like it... )

 

Not saying Saturday is the answer... but it's not like he's some no-name random meat head OL. 

He has multiple All Pros, multiple Pro Bowl, he was a NFL OL of the Year, Ring of Honor. 

He was the QB of the OL (called protections, understood the offense) for a decade+, played with a top 5 QB, and was respected by Mudd and other coaches. 

[richard pallo]

11 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

If players are in a "different line" to join the media....

 

Then...

 

Players are in a different line to join coaching and GM/FO too... (and Cowher doesn't like it... )

 

Not saying Saturday is the answer... but it's not like he's some no-name random meat head OL. 

He has multiple All Pros, multiple Pro Bowl, he was a NFL OL of the Year, Ring of Honor. 

He was the QB of the OL (called protections, understood the offense) for a decade+, played with a top 5 QB, and was respected by Mudd and other coaches. 

Quite right.  If I remember correctly Shula was a young linebacker coach when the Colts made him their head coach coach and he did pretty well.  No credentials anywhere near Saturdays.   Saturday doesn’t need to pay any dues and become an apprentice coach imo.  He’s more than qualified to be given an opportunity.

[EastStreet]

7 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Quite right.  If I remember correctly Shula was a young linebacker coach when the Colts made him their head coach coach and he did pretty well.  No credentials anywhere near Saturdays.   Saturday doesn’t need to pay any dues and become an apprentice coach imo.  He’s more than qualified to be given an opportunity.

 

Yup, his resume is more than OK, to roll the dice on (for 8 weeks). Zero risk IMO. 

In addition to what I listed... He's a natural leader, charismatic, and has familiarity with Indy...

And has strength in the OL area, where we are struggling most.

[cdgacoltsfan]

On 11/19/2022 at 1:04 AM, AustinnKaine said:

what argument? there is no argument... lets be clear on that. and it is your opinion i am wrong, I haven't seen any proof to change my position. 

 

" Rich Eisen is a Host!! " that's your response to me saying Eisen is a journalist, and that is your response to me providing his career history, which is a perfect example of the type of person I am stating exists. The exact person that former players and coaches get to skip over 9/10 times. That argument, has not been lost. 

 

To be honest, you have not added anything past what Superman has already said. I have noted your disagreement, but there's really nothing here. If you don't agree to the bold, that's the part to respond to. 

 

I've given multiple arguments, multiple examples, and you respond with your job qualifications for what...? an ego boost? not sure. but it doesn't hold any weight in this discussion, only the premises and conclusion hold weight here.

 

It has drifted from the original conversation I was having with someone else, but the argument has not changed. 

 

 

Players and Coaches do get privilige in sports journalism over other journalists. This has not been disproven by Superman, or you. The best argument was by Superman in which he states its not relevant due to the norm. (Which ive already provided a premise based response) Im assuming you are following a similar state of mind, and im assuming you are using that as a foundation to say they aren't in competition for the SAME jobs. 

 

Well guess what, they are. That's why I provided to you Rich Eisens Resume to show you that those type of journalists DO exist. And they CAN be in the same competiton for the SAME jobs, that are given to players and coaches. Again, this has not been disproven. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you are reading each post in detail. but I am not quite sure now. 

 

 

also... All I’ve said is Eisen didn’t take a job away from a former player or coach and a former player or coach isn’t taking Rich Eisen’s  job - NewColtsFan

 

 

that's not even what im discussing regarding Eisen, and like I just said above, I don't think you've read the full conversation between Superman and I, otherwise you'd have more context.

 

 

The argument is that Cower is hypocritcal for using his privilige of being a former in the group of former coach/players who get jobs over other aspiring sports journalists.  While also blasting someone else for using their coach/player privlige. 

 

^^^ thats the original thread and mode of thought. So everything I've said is related to that, not the bolded part of what you're saying. that was never the point, and its completely irrelvant. 

 

Rich Eisen and those guys have the SAME job. They talk about sports. Eisen is the 1/10 that make it through, despite the bias and privlige provided to player/coaches in sports media. 

 

On 11/19/2022 at 1:04 AM, AustinnKaine said:

what argument? there is no argument... lets be clear on that. and it is your opinion i am wrong, I haven't seen any proof to change my position. 

 

" Rich Eisen is a Host!! " that's your response to me saying Eisen is a journalist, and that is your response to me providing his career history, which is a perfect example of the type of person I am stating exists. The exact person that former players and coaches get to skip over 9/10 times. That argument, has not been lost. 

 

To be honest, you have not added anything past what Superman has already said. I have noted your disagreement, but there's really nothing here. If you don't agree to the bold, that's the part to respond to. 

 

I've given multiple arguments, multiple examples, and you respond with your job qualifications for what...? an ego boost? not sure. but it doesn't hold any weight in this discussion, only the premises and conclusion hold weight here.

 

It has drifted from the original conversation I was having with someone else, but the argument has not changed. 

 

 

Players and Coaches do get privilige in sports journalism over other journalists. This has not been disproven by Superman, or you. The best argument was by Superman in which he states its not relevant due to the norm. (Which ive already provided a premise based response) Im assuming you are following a similar state of mind, and im assuming you are using that as a foundation to say they aren't in competition for the SAME jobs. 

 

Well guess what, they are. That's why I provided to you Rich Eisens Resume to show you that those type of journalists DO exist. And they CAN be in the same competiton for the SAME jobs, that are given to players and coaches. Again, this has not been disproven. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you are reading each post in detail. but I am not quite sure now. 

 

 

also... All I’ve said is Eisen didn’t take a job away from a former player or coach and a former player or coach isn’t taking Rich Eisen’s  job - NewColtsFan

 

 

that's not even what im discussing regarding Eisen, and like I just said above, I don't think you've read the full conversation between Superman and I, otherwise you'd have more context.

 

 

The argument is that Cower is hypocritcal for using his privilige of being a former in the group of former coach/players who get jobs over other aspiring sports journalists.  While also blasting someone else for using their coach/player privlige. 

 

^^^ thats the original thread and mode of thought. So everything I've said is related to that, not the bolded part of what you're saying. that was never the point, and its completely irrelvant. 

 

Rich Eisen and those guys have the SAME job. They talk about sports. Eisen is the 1/10 that make it through, despite the bias and privlige provided to player/coaches in sports media. 

[GoColts8818]

Anyone else catch that Bill completely changed his tune in a week this past Sunday and actually complimented Saturday?  
 

I doubt Bill really felt as strongly as he sounded on TV.  Those shows are about making drama and getting attention and Cowher having a rant like that did exactly what it was supposed too, got you to pay attention to him.  I smell a TV producer telling Bill to be that upset because it’s good TV.

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Anyone else catch that Bill completely changed his tune in a week this past Sunday and actually complimented Saturday?  
 

I doubt Bill really felt as strongly as he sounded on TV.  Those shows are about making drama and getting attention and Cowher having a rant like that did exactly what it was supposed too, got you to pay attention to him.  I smell a TV producer telling Bill to be that upset because it’s good TV.

 

IDK.

IMO, I'd guess his rant was emotional/real, and he changed his tune due to the response he got.

And the fact that Indy won, then almost beat Philly, didn't help his narrative. 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 11/18/2022 at 11:30 AM, NewColtsFan said:

Rich Eisen is a Host!! 
 

A former coach or player is NOT taking his job.    Like I said….   Two different lines.   Not jumping past other people in the same line.   
 

I’ve deliberately stayed out of this discussion because it was clear there were few if any who wanted to deal with a disagreement.   Superman’s argument is correct and people STILL wouldn’t budge.  
So I thought it was time for me, the media guide, to step into the conversation.  

 

Not surprised you’re still disagreeing.  That’s the nature of this website, this season more than ever. 
 

 

I think the only comparison u can make and it points to Cowher, Romo and soon to be Brady. They jumped in line. A lot of other ex players and even some coaches had to start off at the college level and work themselves up the ladder. Cowher got  his gig totally on his name and that is the problem with all these NFL shows. They hire guys like Cowher who I think are terrible and don't bring much to the game. It's all fluff and it would pay great dividends if they actually had to study their art in school and actually learn the trade. So u can critisize him by saying he was not qualified for his current gig. He has gained experience as the yearspassed but I have always wondered what kind of TV personalities would all these ex NFL players/coaches become if they went thru school and learned the trade thr good old fashion way. Honestly, I cannot remember the  last time I watched a pre game show, as they have almost become reality shows. When is thr last time u actually watched a pre game show and a coach or player gave u a very insightful reason as to why one team was going to beat the other? U know broke it down to scheme vs scheme.

[Myles]

6 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

 When is thr last time u actually watched a pre game show and a coach or player gave u a very insightful reason as to why one team was going to beat the other? U know broke it down to scheme vs scheme.

They rarely do that anymore.  They are more interested and bought into drama for ratings.  

 

I think Cowher is a putz for buying into it as well.

[coltsva]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

They rarely do that anymore.  They are more interested and bought into drama for ratings.  

 

I think Cowher is a putz for buying into it as well.

You had me at putz

[lilolemoi]

On 11/18/2022 at 9:33 PM, AustinnKaine said:

The reality is, they're all journalists. Your experience in journalism doesn't change that. 

 

I agree with this. There’s analyzing and then there’s doing. The former is no substitute for the latter. Not knocking analysts, but it’s a whole different ball game if you’ve actually been in the game. And journalists want access to players, coaches, owners etc for that reason. The need for access influences their coverage which in Indy leans sycophantic and unrealistic.