Question for the Old Timers... Is Colts QB history repeating itself?

[The Old Crow]

39 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 At some point we need to draft in the top 12-15 to get a shot at a really good QB prospect. Then he actually has to get good. lol

 If we draft one now he won't likely be that good till his year 3.

 Irsay is getting old, and we have a number of our best young players hitting their prime. 
 So it does make sense to pay a big price for someone that could get us to a SB. Who dat now, who dat next year?  Rotsa Ruck Jimbo! 

That’s one of the problems. Jimbo is getting older and wants immediate results. Sometimes you can strike lightning in the bottle like the Rams, but you can also get yourself in trouble losing key draft picks , and getting into salary cap misery. Jimmy G is probably the best , established choice on the market, but what will be the cost, and how will he be coming off the shoulder surgery ? 
We went through the QB shuffle in Baltimore pre-Flacco, and it wasn’t pretty. We reached for some bad QB’s , and drafted a horrible one in Kyle Boller. Never easy. 
I think Ballard is a pretty good GM, but he needs to operate without two SB’s in a decade,  and tweeting at player histrionics. The owner always yields the big stick, but I remember that big stick all too well in Baltimore in the late -1970’s and early 1980’s. 
I’m not saying this history is the same, but with most team’s I’ve seen , when the owner gets too involved and emotional , it’s seldom a good thing. Just ask Ernie Accorsi. 

[pogi]

On 3/9/2022 at 10:52 PM, Blueblood23 said:

 Don’t see Carr or anyone else available an upgrade over Wentz. I see a mediocre future for a few years ahead. 

We would be mediocre with Wentz.  

[cbear]

Honestly, aside from the team, I think what we're seeing more than anything else are spoiled Colts fans who expect our GM to just go find the next Peyton Luck. Shouldn't be too hard right? 

[Colts1324]

1 hour ago, cbear said:

Honestly, aside from the team, I think what we're seeing more than anything else are spoiled Colts fans who expect our GM to just go find the next Peyton Luck. Shouldn't be too hard right? 

Exactly. Ballard would have never accepted this job if Luck wasn’t our QB. He is just as motivated to find the next star QB as we fans are. It’s rare to find a top 5 QB
 

Luck’s retirement is RARE & put our franchise in a bad spot. It takes years to recover from that. 

[Yoshinator]

On 3/9/2022 at 11:03 PM, Four2itus said:

No. This team is way better assembled that when the Colts were QB poor in the past. 

 

However. the fans are WAY whinier than in the past. Apparently having internet on a phone and a twitter account makes you G.M. level smart....especially when seeing the choices in hindsight. 

Agree with the first sentence.

 

The second paragraph is HORRIBLE though. Fans are more intelligent then in the past if anything. We have more access to more information than ever, we know more about the inside workings of the NFL than ever, we have avenues like youtube where we can watch intelligent people give their opinions about players, teams, the draft, and other issues without being influenced by sources such as ESPN that always have a bias or clear agenda. Back in the past, it was probably fans had a knowledge of 1 or 2 out of 10 of football, and the GMs had an 8 or 9 (because they didn't have an analytical approach like today). Now days, the fans have learned a lot more than the average fan has ever known about football. I would guess they have closed that gap on the GMs a little bit. Probably the fans have a knowledge of 6 or 7 out of 10 and the GMs are a 10 now. Still less, but enough to make fair arguments about their decisions.

 

It seems to me from this posts and many of your previous posts in the past that you would prefer fans to be naive to the game and not smart to it. Almost like we should be kept in the dark, be good fans and know our place, root for our teams, and trust the FO without dispute. In what world is this a good thing? IMO, everything and everyone should be questioned. That's how we evolve as a society and as a sport in football. There is always room for improvement, and there is always room for debate and strategies to make the game better. 

 

Even if we are fans and don't have the knowledge of the GMs and coaches, we are still smarter as an overall fanbase in football than ever before. We have picked up on every pattern of all 32 FOs that the fanbases are fans of. We haven't completely closed the gap, but there's less and less that they can do to surprise us where things are "hindsight" now, and the fans have started to form their opinions that are more and more accurate on all things football. Whether it be FA, the draft, recognizing patterns in how the team operates, spending habits, watching interviews and learning from them, watching tape, learning the X's and O's of the game, PFF teaching us about the value of players, etc... 

 

We are the smartest generation of fans to ever watch the game. You can call it whining. I call it being intelligent, and having expectations based on what we know today, to what the old-timers knew in their day and the sport evolving over a large period of time.

[SteelCityColt]

On 3/10/2022 at 7:03 AM, Four2itus said:

No. This team is way better assembled that when the Colts were QB poor in the past. 

 

However. the fans are WAY whinier than in the past. Apparently having internet on a phone and a twitter account makes you G.M. level smart....especially when seeing the choices in hindsight. 

 

I have an armchair too, I'll have you know.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Agree with the first sentence.

 

The second paragraph is HORRIBLE though. Fans are more intelligent then in the past if anything. We have more access to more information than ever, we know more about the inside workings of the NFL than ever, we have avenues like youtube where we can watch intelligent people give their opinions about players, teams, the draft, and other issues without being influenced by sources such as ESPN that always have a bias or clear agenda. Back in the past, it was probably fans had a knowledge of 1 or 2 out of 10 of football, and the GMs had an 8 or 9 (because they didn't have an analytical approach like today). Now days, the fans have learned a lot more than the average fan has ever known about football. I would guess they have closed that gap on the GMs a little bit. Probably the fans have a knowledge of 6 or 7 out of 10 and the GMs are a 10 now. Still less, but enough to make fair arguments about their decisions.

 

It seems to me from this posts and many of your previous posts in the past that you would prefer fans to be naive to the game and not smart to it. Almost like we should be kept in the dark, be good fans and know our place, root for our teams, and trust the FO without dispute. In what world is this a good thing? IMO, everything and everyone should be questioned. That's how we evolve as a society and as a sport in football. There is always room for improvement, and there is always room for debate and strategies to make the game better. 

 

Even if we are fans and don't have the knowledge of the GMs and coaches, we are still smarter as an overall fanbase in football than ever before. We have picked up on every pattern of all 32 FOs that the fanbases are fans of. We haven't completely closed the gap, but there's less and less that they can do to surprise us where things are "hindsight" now, and the fans have started to form their opinions that are more and more accurate on all things football. Whether it be FA, the draft, recognizing patterns in how the team operates, spending habits, watching interviews and learning from them, watching tape, learning the X's and O's of the game, PFF teaching us about the value of players, etc... 

 

We are the smartest generation of fans to ever watch the game. You can call it whining. I call it being intelligent, and having expectations based on what we know today, to what the old-timers knew in their day and the sport evolving over a large period of time.

I agree with a lot of this. Nothing wrong with a gm being questioned. The president of the United states gets questioned all the time by thousands of people in the history of our country lol. We haven't won a playoff game going on 4 years now since Andrew retired. 4 years is a red flag and I think Ballard is a top 5 to 7 gm in the league. I like him. Andrew retiring screwed things up but Ballard now has a chance to get this right. We also have a lot of money to spend so the excuses are over imo

[AwesomeAustin]

2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Agree with the first sentence.

 

The second paragraph is HORRIBLE though. Fans are more intelligent then in the past if anything. We have more access to more information than ever, we know more about the inside workings of the NFL than ever, we have avenues like youtube where we can watch intelligent people give their opinions about players, teams, the draft, and other issues without being influenced by sources such as ESPN that always have a bias or clear agenda. Back in the past, it was probably fans had a knowledge of 1 or 2 out of 10 of football, and the GMs had an 8 or 9 (because they didn't have an analytical approach like today). Now days, the fans have learned a lot more than the average fan has ever known about football. I would guess they have closed that gap on the GMs a little bit. Probably the fans have a knowledge of 6 or 7 out of 10 and the GMs are a 10 now. Still less, but enough to make fair arguments about their decisions.

 

It seems to me from this posts and many of your previous posts in the past that you would prefer fans to be naive to the game and not smart to it. Almost like we should be kept in the dark, be good fans and know our place, root for our teams, and trust the FO without dispute. In what world is this a good thing? IMO, everything and everyone should be questioned. That's how we evolve as a society and as a sport in football. There is always room for improvement, and there is always room for debate and strategies to make the game better. 

 

Even if we are fans and don't have the knowledge of the GMs and coaches, we are still smarter as an overall fanbase in football than ever before. We have picked up on every pattern of all 32 FOs that the fanbases are fans of. We haven't completely closed the gap, but there's less and less that they can do to surprise us where things are "hindsight" now, and the fans have started to form their opinions that are more and more accurate on all things football. Whether it be FA, the draft, recognizing patterns in how the team operates, spending habits, watching interviews and learning from them, watching tape, learning the X's and O's of the game, PFF teaching us about the value of players, etc... 

 

We are the smartest generation of fans to ever watch the game. You can call it whining. I call it being intelligent, and having expectations based on what we know today, to what the old-timers knew in their day and the sport evolving over a large period of time.

Besides this board I don’t see it.  Most fans I talk to about the game have no clue what is going on. They couldn’t tell you the name of the GM and probably half don’t know the name of the coach.  They definitely don’t know who the coordinators are. 
 

I’ve been accused of googling things multiple times bc I can name the entire starting OL let alone the backups. Most fans don’t know the difference between Dime and Nickel.  I was with a group of about 12 people watching the game and I discussed a 4-2-5 and might as well been speaking Latin. One buddy who chats with me every game via text had no idea Wentz was traded until I told him 2 days after. 
 

Those that are interested in diving deeper into learning are way smarter. We do have an insane amount of access to information.  As a whole I still feel people mostly read headlines and really aren’t learning much at all. I would say 95% have never watched any film. They watch the game and talk about it like the latest movie to come out. Then they are off to do other things and don’t worry about football until the following Sunday. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

14 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Besides this board I don’t see it.  Most fans I talk to about the game have no clue what is going on. They couldn’t tell you the name of the GM and probably half don’t know the name of the coach.  They definitely don’t know who the coordinators are. 
 

I’ve been accused of googling things multiple times bc I can name the entire starting OL let alone the backups. Most fans don’t know the difference between Dime and Nickel.  I was with a group of about 12 people watching the game and I discussed a 4-2-5 and might as well been speaking Latin. One buddy who chats with me every game via text had no idea Wentz was traded until I told him 2 days after. 
 

Those that are interested in diving deeper into learning are way smarter. We do have an insane amount of access to information.  As a whole I still feel people mostly read headlines and really aren’t learning much at all. I would say 95% have never watched any film. They watch the game and talk about it like the latest movie to come out. Then they are off to do other things and don’t worry about football until the following Sunday. 

I can name the whole roster we have and can even name every starting QB we have had since 1984. There are more fans like me than you might know. Do I have the knowledge of a GM, no I don't and don't claim too but as far as knowing the game I know a lot of people that know it inside and out. I even played in High School which seems like a 100 years ago  . The main thing people do not have in here is the ability to interview these guys which is huge because that is a big part of drafting someone. Some GM's can get a sense if someone is a good guy or is a leader by interviewing them, we can't.

[AwesomeAustin]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree with a lot of this. Nothing wrong with a gm being questioned. The president of the United states gets questioned all the time by thousands of people in the history of our country lol. We haven't won a playoff game going on 4 years now since Andrew retired. 4 years is a red flag and I think Ballard is a top 5 to 7 gm in the league. I like him. Andrew retiring screwed things up but Ballard now has a chance to get this right. We also have a lot of money to spend so the excuses are over imo

It is amazing how competitive we are with what Ballard has endured. Luck retiring, McDaniels bailing and Frank I had to hire someone to remind me to run the ball Reich.  He is a top GM in this league and if he nails the QB position he may be in the conversation for HOF one day.  If Irsay is really meddling and he is forced to keep Reich we may never know his full potential. I think the Colts are lucky to have him and I hope he is able to get back to building the team through the draft so he and our scouts can do their jobs. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

It is amazing how competitive we are with what Ballard has endured. Luck retiring, McDaniels bailing and Frank I had to hire someone to remind me to run the ball Reich.  He is a top GM in this league and if he nails the QB position he may be in the conversation for HOF one day.  If Irsay is really meddling and he is forced to keep Reich we may never know his full potential. I think the Colts are lucky to have him and I hope he is able to get back to building the team through the draft so he and our scouts can do their jobs. 

I have Ballard in my top 5-7 GM's. Andrew retiring F'd everything up  

[2006Coltsbestever]

I remember when Polian interviewed Peyton and Leaf, after the interview Polian said this is a no brainer. As a fan I have to be honest I thought it was 50/50 based on talent and college career but I didn't know either player personally. 

[AwesomeAustin]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I can name the whole roster we have and can even name every starting QB we have had since 1984. There are more fans like me than you might know. Do I have the knowledge of a GM, no I don't and don't claim too but as far as knowing the game I know a lot of people that know it inside and out. I even played in High School which seems like a 100 years ago  . The main thing people do not have in here is the ability to interview these guys which is huge because that is a big part of drafting someone. Some GM's can get a sense if someone is a good guy or is a leader by interviewing them, we can't.

I know there are a ton of knowledgeable people out there. Sports make it cool to geek out a little bit and I love it. As a whole I see people in general are a lot smarter about their hobbies bc of the access to information we have.  However, we have access to so much about anything we want to know that I think it takes away from how in depth people get with things in general. There is so much offered now people move on to different things quickly. It used to be we all talked about the game on Mondays into the middle of the week.  Now we discuss it while the game is on and then off to different things. I can talk football every day but people have many interest from being able to access so much other information we discuss a lot broader range of topics. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I know there are a ton of knowledgeable people out there. Sports make it cool to geek out a little bit and I love it. As a whole I see people in general are a lot smarter about their hobbies bc of the access to information we have.  However, we have access to so much about anything we want to know that I think it takes away from how in depth people get with things in general. There is so much offered now people move on to different things quickly. It used to be we all talked about the game on Mondays into the middle of the week.  Now we discuss it while the game is on and then off to different things. I can talk football every day but people have many interest from being able to access so much other information we discuss a lot broader range of topics. 

I am mainly a sports nut but I like shows like even the Simpsons  . I love playing Chess, I find it challenging. I think for the most part nobody claims they are smarter than Ballard, I sure don't when it comes to being a GM. That is a tough job. There are a lot of people though that know the game well and just give opinions.

[AwesomeAustin]

15 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am mainly a sports nut but I like shows like even the Simpsons  . I love playing Chess, I find it challenging. I think for the most part nobody claims they are smarter than Ballard, I sure don't when it comes to being a GM. That is a tough job. There are a lot of people though that know the game well and just give opinions.

Ah chess. One of those games I played a lot when I was younger. Used to have a decent ranking on Yahoo games 12-15yrs ago. Probably haven’t played it in a decade now. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

22 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Ah chess. One of those games I played a lot when I was younger. Used to have a decent ranking on Yahoo games 12-15yrs ago. Probably haven’t played it in a decade now. 

Yeah I used have this program called Chess Master, this was way back in 1998  . It had different levels = Novice, Beginners, good, very good, great, master level. I could beat the very good level but when it came to great It was damn near impossible - it was like a stalemate every time as the best I could do. If you made 1 mistake it was over  . Same with master level. Beating the very good level was difficult - I did it a few times. I loved using my Knights a lot but it is hard to fool a computer. I love trading Queens because I felt better knowing the other person doesn't have their's. With a computer on the great level or master level, it wouldn't do it.

[Four2itus]

5 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The second paragraph is HORRIBLE though. Fans are more intelligent then in the past if anything. We have more access to more information than ever, we know more about the inside workings of the NFL than ever, we have avenues like youtube where we can watch intelligent people give their opinions about players, teams, the draft, and other issues without being influenced by sources such as ESPN that always have a bias or clear agenda. Back in the past, it was probably fans had a knowledge of 1 or 2 out of 10 of football, and the GMs had an 8 or 9 (because they didn't have an analytical approach like today). Now days, the fans have learned a lot more than the average fan has ever known about football. I would guess they have closed that gap on the GMs a little bit. Probably the fans have a knowledge of 6 or 7 out of 10 and the GMs are a 10 now. Still less, but enough to make fair arguments about their decisions.

I'm not talking about knowledge. Yes, there is more information, and more fans know the inner workings about the game. I am talking about attitude and self aggrandizing importance. What has the cell phone generation accomplished in terms of interaction, inner patience, and relationship strength? What they have done is... throw most of those abilities away for convenience, mental entertainment, and instant opinion. In the last 30 years, most folks have begun regressing in the ability to discuss things face to face with another human, listening to their words before adding their own, reading body language and facial ques, and the basis of our native language. It's all about them, their all important opinion, and being right. These are the folks that invented the "selfie" image. 

 

In my first 25 years of life, I learned to communicate, to debate, and to discuss with people face to face. A great deal of things that are posted by folks would have gotten them a physical confrontation. But now, we have this device where we can just spew whatever the hell we want, regardless of consequences. It removes how interaction really works, and creates a false feeling of safety, importance, and most importantly..... it removes one's need to grow and mature in the ability to strengthen in our relationships with our fellow humans. 

 

It is massively evident in the over the top arrogance of folks thinking they know more than the people who have dedicated their lives to their craft. They judge a mistake in hindsight, once again spewing their selfie image of their own grand ability to know the NFL. In summation, I am not impressed. Yes, folks can get data that previously was unavailable. They can post it in....well..... three shakes of a lambs tail. 

 

 

[Two_pound]

I have put on here every season how the Colts have to CHANGE HISTORY, but alas, history keeps repeating itself in the form of inexcusable, ridiculous losses to vastly inferior teams to keep us out of the playoffs. And,no, I don't expect the Colts to make the playoffs every season. We had unbelievable runs with Bert Jones, Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck. If the history of the Colts and the nfl in general tells you one thing it's this- we had the greatest qb in the history of the game for FOURTEEN years and won one sb, how can anyone in their right mind expect this team to win another with a qb who is nowhere near the caliber of Manning??????? It is what it is people. And consider this, his brother Eli won 2!

[Yoshinator]

26 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

I'm not talking about knowledge. Yes, there is more information, and more fans know the inner workings about the game. I am talking about attitude and self aggrandizing importance. What has the cell phone generation accomplished in terms of interaction, inner patience, and relationship strength? What they have done is... throw most of those abilities away for convenience, mental entertainment, and instant opinion. In the last 30 years, most folks have begun regressing in the ability to discuss things face to face with another human, listening to their words before adding their own, reading body language and facial ques, and the basis of our native language. It's all about them, their all important opinion, and being right. These are the folks that invented the "selfie" image. 

 

In my first 25 years of life, I learned to communicate, to debate, and to discuss with people face to face. A great deal of things that are posted by folks would have gotten them a physical confrontation. But now, we have this device where we can just spew whatever the hell we want, regardless of consequences. It removes how interaction really works, and creates a false feeling of safety, importance, and most importantly..... it removes one's need to grow and mature in the ability to strengthen in our relationships with our fellow humans. 

 

It is massively evident in the over the top arrogance of folks thinking they know more than the people who have dedicated their lives to their craft. They judge a mistake in hindsight, once again spewing their selfie image of their own grand ability to know the NFL. In summation, I am not impressed. Yes, folks can get data that previously was unavailable. They can post it in....well..... three shakes of a lambs tail. 

 

 

Honestly, I don't have a cell phone. never have, and it's saved me a lot of money. I also agree that it turns people into zombies, kills their social skills, and gets rid of face to face physical interactions that we used to have as kids and young adults. However, it's not responsible for people thinking they know more than experts. The internet partly is, social media partly is, fantasy sports may play a role in that, and finally, madden makes everyone an "expert" in how to run a franchise and draft a team with decently realistic options. 

 

A decent amount of both HCs and GMs get fired every year. They are not infallable. Even our HC and GM are not. Likewise, every GM and HC makes mistakes. Sometimes the fans will be right and the FO will be wrong. It isn't always hindsight. Even fans accuracy on making predictions have improved over the years because of info available to them. It's not as good as the NFL FOs, but it's enough in this day and age to make a decent case around. 

 

Finally. NFL fans make the poor argument whenever a fan argues against a GM that the fan is an "armchair GM" or something of the sort. The fact is that it isn't that fan Vs the GM of his favorite team. It's his GM Vs 31 other GMs, and generally a GM of another one of those 31 teams is agreeing with him or her and disagreeing with his or her GM. Whether it be a draft pick, FA, trading for a certain player, making a hire, or something else. If I disagree with Ballard for example, I don't think I'm smarter than Ballard. However, I do believe Les Snead for example (the Rams GM) is smarter than Ballard because 1.) He traded for Stafford instead of Wentz and 2.) He built his team through trades and traded draft picks for elite players and took risks that won his team a SB. That's a strategy that is the complete opposite of Ballard's and worked. 

 

Sometimes it's just impatience. I expected more when we drafted Andrew Luck, we got nothing out of him because of an incompetent GM and HC. Now he retired and we are getting little results again out of another GM and HC, and again we are stuck with no QB. We may not know more than then Ballard and Reich, but it seems they don't know more than the current other 31 GMs and HCs in the league, and that's what matters, regardless of if they are smarter than every "armchair GM" in the world.

[Archer]

I thought this was going to be about Gary Hogeboom.  Colts spring for the best regarded back-up QB in the league, and he comes to Indy and bombs…

[John Hammonds]

21 minutes ago, Archer said:

I thought this was going to be about Gary Hogeboom.  Colts spring for the best regarded back-up QB in the league, and he comes to Indy and bombs…

I remember that!  Same thing with Don Majkowski.

 

The bad place in my head remembers the 80's, where we had 3 pro bowlers on our offensive line, a great linebacker, and precious little else.  Deja vu all over again?  Geez, I sure hope not!

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, Four2itus said:

I'm not talking about knowledge. Yes, there is more information, and more fans know the inner workings about the game. I am talking about attitude and self aggrandizing importance. What has the cell phone generation accomplished in terms of interaction, inner patience, and relationship strength? What they have done is... throw most of those abilities away for convenience, mental entertainment, and instant opinion. In the last 30 years, most folks have begun regressing in the ability to discuss things face to face with another human, listening to their words before adding their own, reading body language and facial ques, and the basis of our native language. It's all about them, their all important opinion, and being right. These are the folks that invented the "selfie" image. 

 

In my first 25 years of life, I learned to communicate, to debate, and to discuss with people face to face. A great deal of things that are posted by folks would have gotten them a physical confrontation. But now, we have this device where we can just spew whatever the hell we want, regardless of consequences. It removes how interaction really works, and creates a false feeling of safety, importance, and most importantly..... it removes one's need to grow and mature in the ability to strengthen in our relationships with our fellow humans. 

 

It is massively evident in the over the top arrogance of folks thinking they know more than the people who have dedicated their lives to their craft. They judge a mistake in hindsight, once again spewing their selfie image of their own grand ability to know the NFL. In summation, I am not impressed. Yes, folks can get data that previously was unavailable. They can post it in....well..... three shakes of a lambs tail. 

 

 

I miss the 80's and 90's 

[Mouthfire]

The only real pattern is that legitimate franchise quarterbacks are damn hard to find, and it's pretty darn hard to win without one. 

[Nickster]

On 3/10/2022 at 1:03 AM, Four2itus said:

No. This team is way better assembled that when the Colts were QB poor in the past. 

 

However. the fans are WAY whinier than in the past. Apparently having internet on a phone and a twitter account makes you G.M. level smart....especially when seeing the choices in hindsight. 

IDK Fourty, I wasn’t in bars in the 80s, but I wouldn’t guess that the bar talk would have been all that “positive” with a team with one win in the playoffs in 8 years.

 

Guys at the bar that would have been falsely positive would have been laughed to scorn and the stadium would have been 3 quarters empty would be my guess.

 

[Nickster]

15 hours ago, cbear said:

Honestly, aside from the team, I think what we're seeing more than anything else are spoiled Colts fans who expect our GM to just go find the next Peyton Luck. Shouldn't be too hard right? 

Maybe some do, but you do eventually have to try to get your guy.  Don’t you?

I mean they tried with Wentz and decided that was a failure.  So we traded a current 1st for a future 3rd and wasted a year of development.

 

I think a some fans here, me included, think there has been an over eval of our talent and the team made moves as if they were TB or LAR.  I for one don’t think we are very close to them talent wise.  
 

are old Tom and aging Stafford great, or were the teams set up to really contend with very good competent QBing rather than Winston and Goff?

since 2018 and then until after next year our only 1st round draft pick will have been Kwity PAye.  Not only that but we  are probably looking at a mid tier FA at QB going into next season. 
 

that’s less than ideal.  So I don’t expect Manning or Luck, but I hope this team gets in a position to try for one next season.

[cbear]

42 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Maybe some do, but you do eventually have to try to get your guy.  Don’t you?

I mean they tried with Wentz and decided that was a failure.  So we traded a current 1st for a future 3rd and wasted a year of development.

 

I think a some fans here, me included, think there has been an over eval of our talent and the team made moves as if they were TB or LAR.  I for one don’t think we are very close to them talent wise.  
 

are old Tom and aging Stafford great, or were the teams set up to really contend with very good competent QBing rather than Winston and Goff?

since 2018 and then until after next year our only 1st round draft pick will have been Kwity PAye.  Not only that but we  are probably looking at a mid tier FA at QB going into next season. 
 

that’s less than ideal.  So I don’t expect Manning or Luck, but I hope this team gets in a position to try for one next season.

Absolutely. I just don't see anyone like that now. Even Carr, Cousins or Garrapalo aren't trade worthy to me. Wentz was a gamble, but I do count it as a worthwhile try. Didn't work. I don't mind a bold move. Just don't see anyone out there imo. Maybe better FA QBs next year or we hit in the draft. 

[WoolMagnet]

Who u callin old, sonny?

[jimmy g]

On 3/11/2022 at 7:02 AM, pogi said:

We would be mediocre with Wentz.  

This past year, With Wentz not doing anything differently, but having our defense not collapse like it did, we’d have been about 11-6.

[jimmy g]

15 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Agree with the first sentence.

 

The second paragraph is HORRIBLE though. Fans are more intelligent then in the past if anything. We have more access to more information than ever, we know more about the inside workings of the NFL than ever, we have avenues like youtube where we can watch intelligent people give their opinions about players, teams, the draft, and other issues without being influenced by sources such as ESPN that always have a bias or clear agenda. Back in the past, it was probably fans had a knowledge of 1 or 2 out of 10 of football, and the GMs had an 8 or 9 (because they didn't have an analytical approach like today). Now days, the fans have learned a lot more than the average fan has ever known about football. I would guess they have closed that gap on the GMs a little bit. Probably the fans have a knowledge of 6 or 7 out of 10 and the GMs are a 10 now. Still less, but enough to make fair arguments about their decisions.

 

It seems to me from this posts and many of your previous posts in the past that you would prefer fans to be naive to the game and not smart to it. Almost like we should be kept in the dark, be good fans and know our place, root for our teams, and trust the FO without dispute. In what world is this a good thing? IMO, everything and everyone should be questioned. That's how we evolve as a society and as a sport in football. There is always room for improvement, and there is always room for debate and strategies to make the game better. 

 

Even if we are fans and don't have the knowledge of the GMs and coaches, we are still smarter as an overall fanbase in football than ever before. We have picked up on every pattern of all 32 FOs that the fanbases are fans of. We haven't completely closed the gap, but there's less and less that they can do to surprise us where things are "hindsight" now, and the fans have started to form their opinions that are more and more accurate on all things football. Whether it be FA, the draft, recognizing patterns in how the team operates, spending habits, watching interviews and learning from them, watching tape, learning the X's and O's of the game, PFF teaching us about the value of players, etc... 

 

We are the smartest generation of fans to ever watch the game. You can call it whining. I call it being intelligent, and having expectations based on what we know today, to what the old-timers knew in their day and the sport evolving over a large period of time.

The problem that the internet has created is people of today Demand Instant Gratification.  When they aren’t instantly gratified, they become Keyboard Warriors threatening violence until they are given satisfaction for all perceived wrongs.

 

For instance- just wait until Ballard doesn’t ante up and sign whoever the latest and greatest Free Agents are this week.  The Forum will explode…..

[throwing BBZ]

15 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Agree with the first sentence.

 

The second paragraph is HORRIBLE though. Fans are more intelligent then in the past if anything. We have more access to more information than ever, we know more about the inside workings of the NFL than ever, we have avenues like youtube where we can watch intelligent people give their opinions about players, teams, the draft, and other issues without being influenced by sources such as ESPN that always have a bias or clear agenda. Back in the past, it was probably fans had a knowledge of 1 or 2 out of 10 of football, and the GMs had an 8 or 9 (because they didn't have an analytical approach like today). Now days, the fans have learned a lot more than the average fan has ever known about football. I would guess they have closed that gap on the GMs a little bit. Probably the fans have a knowledge of 6 or 7 out of 10 and the GMs are a 10 now. Still less, but enough to make fair arguments about their decisions.

 

It seems to me from this posts and many of your previous posts in the past that you would prefer fans to be naive to the game and not smart to it. Almost like we should be kept in the dark, be good fans and know our place, root for our teams, and trust the FO without dispute. In what world is this a good thing? IMO, everything and everyone should be questioned. That's how we evolve as a society and as a sport in football. There is always room for improvement, and there is always room for debate and strategies to make the game better. 

 

Even if we are fans and don't have the knowledge of the GMs and coaches, we are still smarter as an overall fanbase in football than ever before. We have picked up on every pattern of all 32 FOs that the fanbases are fans of. We haven't completely closed the gap, but there's less and less that they can do to surprise us where things are "hindsight" now, and the fans have started to form their opinions that are more and more accurate on all things football. Whether it be FA, the draft, recognizing patterns in how the team operates, spending habits, watching interviews and learning from them, watching tape, learning the X's and O's of the game, PFF teaching us about the value of players, etc... 

 

We are the smartest generation of fans to ever watch the game. You can call it whining. I call it being intelligent, and having expectations based on what we know today, to what the old-timers knew in their day and the sport evolving over a large period of time.

 

  Ballard screwed up not getting A Cooper...  You know that whiney ___!
  There is always endless "knowledgeable" GMing here. And based on a knowledge level of more like 2 not 6-7. This is just my opinion.

 Have a good day.

[Nickster]

40 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

This past year, With Wentz not doing anything differently, but having our defense not collapse like it did, we’d have been about 11-6.

But that is always the argument.  AZ, NE, SF, and the First Jags game were all within a TD late in the 4 Q, so by that  logic we were just as close to a 5-12 record than an 11-6.

 

we were a 9-8 club.  We won some close ones and lost some close ones like every tesm every year.

 

people don’t realize how close most NFL games are.

[Nickster]

35 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

The problem that the internet has created is people of today Demand Instant Gratification.  When they aren’t instantly gratified, they become Keyboard Warriors threatening violence until they are given satisfaction for all perceived wrongs.

 

For instance- just wait until Ballard doesn’t ante up and sign whoever the latest and greatest Free Agents are this week.  The Forum will explode…..

Fans will just stop showing up.

 

people always have expressed their displeasure by not showing up.

 

fans have a lot more influence on teams than many seem to understand.

 

not internet dudes like,us simply sharing our armchair opinions like people have since the beginning of sports at all levels , but thousands doing yard work or having a get together on Sundays rather than contributing to a,losing effort by paying exorbitant amounts for a burger and a beer to see a team that has been mismanaged.

 

what cracks me up are the positivity warriors.  For instance, bill o brien knows more football than everyone on here but did some real dumb deffocation.

 

i understand people arguing sports but I don’t understand positivity warrioes getting on public forums where people argue sports and decry sports arguing.

 

that just seems well . . . .dumb

[jvan1973]

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Fans will just stop showing up.

 

people always have expressed their displeasure by not showing up.

 

fans have a lot more influence on teams than many seem to understand.

 

not internet dudes like,us simply sharing our armchair opinions like people have since the beginning of sports at all levels , but thousands doing yard work or having a get together on Sundays rather than contributing to a,losing effort by paying exorbitant amounts for a burger and a beer to see a team that has been mismanaged.

 

what cracks me up are the positivity warriors.  For instance, bill o brien knows more football than everyone on here but did some real dumb deffocation.

 

i understand people arguing sports but I don’t understand positivity warrioes getting on public forums where people argue sports and decry sports arguing.

 

that just seems well . . . .dumb

You actually do that very thing..

[2006Coltsbestever]

People in the 50 and older club are old. I feel like this anymore - at least I don't have false teeth yet but this Gif is funny. If she is really 102 that is amazing.

[2006Coltsbestever]

33 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  Ballard screwed up not getting A Cooper...  You know that whiney ___!
  There is always endless "knowledgeable" GMing here. And based on a knowledge level of more like 2 not 6-7. This is just my opinion.

 Have a good day.

He can make up for it by getting Robinson.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

13 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Most fans don’t know the difference between Dime and Nickel.  I was with a group of about 12 people watching the game and I discussed a 4-2-5 and might as well been speaking Latin. One buddy who chats with me every game via text had no idea Wentz was traded until I told him 2 days after. 

 

Those that are interested in diving deeper into learning are way smarter. We do have an insane amount of access to information.  As a whole I still feel people mostly read headlines and really aren’t learning much at all. I would say 95% have never watched any film. They watch the game and talk about it like the latest movie to come out. Then they are off to do other things and don’t worry about football until the following Sunday. 

 

Well I don't know about other fans but I know the Difference between Dime & Nickel is 5 cents. 

 

[ChuggaBeer]

3 hours ago, jimmy g said:

This past year, With Wentz not doing anything differently, but having our defense not collapse like it did, we’d have been about 11-6.

People do not realize how much we need on D.   And will completely freak out when Ballard adds more pieces over offense  

[Nickster]

8 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

You actually do that very thing..

Oh I’ll be watching games.  I just don’t always go to any.

[throwing BBZ]

9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He can make up for it by getting Robinson.

 

 Of course Ballard didn't want Cooper for $20M so there is nothing to make up for. 
 I have a perception of A Robinsons mental makeup, a toughness that makes me want him too. So i am x my fingers he would even come here. lol
 

2006, safe to say you word some things that can get under my skin enough i just can't stop myself from combating with you. I really appreciate that you remain a gentleman and keep it to just holding up to your pov. 
 I'm here to enjoy being a Colts fan, to enjoy (as much is possible) intelligent pov's, and for a considerable amount of good laughs. Lots of good comeditic talent here!!! 
 Here is to hoping for a good all-around shopping experience for our COLTS!
Good Luck CB!

[The Old Crow]

22 hours ago, Two_pound said:

I have put on here every season how the Colts have to CHANGE HISTORY, but alas, history keeps repeating itself in the form of inexcusable, ridiculous losses to vastly inferior teams to keep us out of the playoffs. And,no, I don't expect the Colts to make the playoffs every season. We had unbelievable runs with Bert Jones, Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck. If the history of the Colts and the nfl in general tells you one thing it's this- we had the greatest qb in the history of the game for FOURTEEN years and won one sb, how can anyone in their right mind expect this team to win another with a qb who is nowhere near the caliber of Manning??????? It is what it is people. And consider this, his brother Eli won 2!

Honestly , the last Irsay years in Baltimore were three winning seasons in 12. Bert was a great QB, and we had three straight division titles, but most of the talent around him got traded away, and he got injured. I

loved Bert, he was an MVP, but it was not an unbelievable run, if you look at it in a longer lens. 
Luck was a great QB and also had a Bert like short run. Irsay and Grigson never could get a good offensive line around him, and he got banged up pretty bad, and retired. 
Peyton Manning was another matter. One of the greatest QB’s of all time. He made Indianapolis football. Had Irsay and Polian been able to put better defenses around him, there were more titles to be had. Basically, without Peyton, Jimmy would have a Herman’s Hermits guitar versus a Beatles guitar,  in the Irsay collection . Peyton was Indianapolis Colts football, and made football important in Indy. 
I think Ballard  has put together some great talent on this team. There is hope. Sometimes you can find a game manager like Trent Dilfer to take you to the top, if the team is talented enough around him. Finding that QB who is not a Peyton, is never easy. 
In Baltimore after Unitas , no QB ever quite measured up. Same with Peyton in Indy. That is the historical curse of having a couple of the greatest QB’s of all time.