Colts QB Watch Party

[philba101]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

We already are.  Shhh, don't tell anybody. 

 

It started with getting virtually all new coaches on defense and some on offense, and trading away the starting QB.

You know what they say. If looks like a re-build, acts like a re-build, then maybe it is a......

[Smonroe]

5 minutes ago, MPStack said:

He’s got the Colts in this spot because of band-aides. Rinse and repeat.  
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What makes you say that?  Oh, 6 opening day starting QBs in 6 years...

Yeah, never mind.

 

Well, at least he's got us covered on the second most important position on offense...oh, wait...

 

But all joking aside, I will say that he keeps trying for that Edge presence.  You have to keep swinging even when you strike out.  

 

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, tfunky14 said:

Matt Ryan would be huge upgrade of Wentz..I'd take 3 years of Ryan anyday,  

I'm one of the few who agrees with this.  I don't know how huge, but upgrade is certain, IMO.  But I want only 2, if things go right in the draft.

[BlackTiger]

25 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Draft a rookie 

the rookies this year would be a stop gap too though 

[stitches]

10 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

To the bolded...agree that we should not do so...but we are yet to pay a premium price for any damaged goods.  Common misperception of the Wentz trade.  

 

That trade washed out to giving up a 1 and 3 while getting back a 2,3 and 4 (assuming Wentz plays 70% and counting the value of the swapped 2nd rounders).  The 3 and 4 can convert the 2 to a 1.  We essentially gave up a 3rd to test drive Wentz for a year.  It's really amazing value for the chance to take a swing at finding a franchise QB.  

 

Everyone will do the accounting differently...but the math is pretty close at a draft capital level.

Any 1st round pick is premier pick in my books. You don't pay 1st round picks+ for the worst QB in the league(what Wentz was when we paid that for him). We gave Washington a better version of Wentz for lesser price. Also, I don't want to justify Ballard's decisions based on what other teams are doing. I wouldn't have given up what Washington gave us for Wentz. 

 

Still.. giving up more premier picks for QBs of the likes of 37 year old Matt Ryan, Baker "need an adult at QB" Mayfield and Jimmy G is not doing good business. We will just continue tethering to mediocrity the more we stay that course of going for bandaids and other teams' discarded waste. 

[pgt_rob]

I'm a big Ballard supporter but this isn't a good look on the Colts front office. Maybe the situation was forced on him, which probably was the case by Irsay. But, I feel like Wentz was forced out and Ballard is left trying to figure things out. Screams, no plan, just winging it now. Nobody can say that the plan was to trade Wentz and then see what QB we can manage to find afterwards. A real plan would have the replacement already in queue. Hopefully we get this figured out. If we snag Matt Ryan, that's probably a better fit than Baker.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

If they get Ryan bringing in Hooper would make sense.

[philba101]

2 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

I'm a big Ballard supporter but this isn't a good look on the Colts front office. Maybe the situation was forced on him, which probably was the case by Irsay. But, I feel like Wentz was forced out and Ballard is left trying to figure things out. Screams, no plan, just winging it now. Nobody can say that the plan was to trade Wentz and then see what QB we can manage to find afterwards. A real plan would have the replacement already in queue. Hopefully we get this figured out. If we snag Matt Ryan, that's probably a better fit than Baker.

Good points!

[Les Poulains]

23 minutes ago, DougDew said:

We already are.  Shhh, don't tell anybody. 

 

It started with getting virtually all new coaches on defense and some on offense, and trading away the starting QB.

If we trade for Matt Ryan, that's not rebuilding.

[DougDew]

11 minutes ago, philba101 said:

You know what they say. If looks like a re-build, acts like a re-build, then maybe it is a......

Its a rebuild, but not a blow up.  It won't totally look like a rebuild, because the stacked talent at the less impactful positions and good coaching will keep us out of the cellars, IMO.

 

But if you measure the percentage of coaching changes and starting player changes from last year to this, including the important QB position, its going to be a much higher percentage than what you see in a stable and ascending team, IMO.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

[Shive]

22 minutes ago, MPStack said:

He’s got the Colts in this spot because of band-aides. Rinse and repeat. 

Sure, but I didn't ask why we're in the situation we are. I asked who could we bring in that would not be a band-aid.

 

3 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

I'm a big Ballard supporter but this isn't a good look on the Colts front office. Maybe the situation was forced on him, which probably was the case by Irsay. But, I feel like Wentz was forced out and Ballard is left trying to figure things out. Screams, no plan, just winging it now. Nobody can say that the plan was to trade Wentz and then see what QB we can manage to find afterwards. A real plan would have the replacement already in queue. Hopefully we get this figured out. If we snag Matt Ryan, that's probably a better fit than Baker.

What says that they don't already have Plans A, B, and C all ready to go, just waiting for the Watson domino to fall?

[cjwhiskers]

2 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

 

A 3rd, conditional 2nd at most IMO. Honestly think we could get Baker for the same. Trading Wentz early was the correct move. 

[MPStack]

Just now, Shive said:

Sure, but I didn't ask why we're in the situation we are. I asked who could we bring in that would not be a band-aid.

 

D. Watson for Nelson and draft picks. 

 

 

 

[Smonroe]

So, are we expecting that if Watson goes to Atlanta, we'll get Ryan.

 

If he goes to the Saints, then maybe Jameis?

 

 

[throwing BBZ]

5 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

I'm a big Ballard supporter but this isn't a good look on the Colts front office. Maybe the situation was forced on him, which probably was the case by Irsay. But, I feel like Wentz was forced out and Ballard is left trying to figure things out. Screams, no plan, just winging it now. Nobody can say that the plan was to trade Wentz and then see what QB we can manage to find afterwards. A real plan would have the replacement already in queue. Hopefully we get this figured out. If we snag Matt Ryan, that's probably a better fit than Baker.

  

  Not sure how you missed it but we had to dump Wentz when we did beacuse of the $15M due him in a few days.

 You also somehow don't get that he refused to play as was wanted so the _____ was Fired. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 Reich NEEDED to beg forgiveness as he misjudged his professional relationship with that guy! 

[Shive]

1 minute ago, MPStack said:

D. Watson for Nelson and draft picks. 

The Texans declined our request to meet with Watson, so a trade for him his impossible.

[ztboiler]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

Any 1st round pick is premier pick in my books. You don't pay 1st round picks+ for the worst QB in the league(what Wentz was when we paid that for him). We gave Washington a better version of Wentz for lesser price. Also, I don't want to justify Ballard's decisions based on what other teams are doing. I wouldn't have given up what Washington gave us for Wentz. 

 

Still.. giving up more premier picks for QBs of the likes of 37 year old Matt Ryan, Baker "need an adult at QB" Mayfield and Jimmy G is not doing good business. We will just continue tethering to mediocrity the more we stay that course of going for bandaids and other teams' discarded waste. 

Most of us are on an internet message board because we have some "Closet GM" in us.  So, of course we have your own roster management approach and trade values in mind.  Net cost is all that matters in this case, and regardless of perception it is unlikely that what Ballard gave for Wentz or what Washington gave Ballard was anything but a reflection of the market for Wentz at that point in time.  Also, we did give Washington a better version of Wentz, I agree, but we also gave them a version of Wentz with a lower perceived ceiling.  The price we paid reflected the potential/ceiling of a franchise guy if Reich could work his magic.  The price they paid reflected stability of a league average QB after Reich did in fact work his magic.

 

Its OK for everything to have worked out OK on that deal, and for Ballard to take another swing with draft capital at risk.  You and I both want exactly the same thing actually, which is to get off the QB mediocrity path.  All trade and FA options keep us on it and it is nonsense to me that we'd spend dollars or picks on short term fixes...but in this case, Ballard really doesn't have much choice.  His roster will age in place and rust away before his very eyes.  He has to find some type of competent experience to hold down the position while he searches for a franchise QB solution to materialize.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

There seems to be a theory out there colts have already agreed in trade principle with Ryan. That Watson has already chosen ATL. . But things are just getting ironed out now. Holder said he just can’t verify it.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, Les Poulains said:

If we trade for Matt Ryan, that's not rebuilding.

But if you measure the percentage of coaching changes and starting player changes from last year to this, including the important positions,, its going to be a much higher percentage than what you see in typical stable and ascending team, IMO.

 

Some of that was due to promotion, but the amount of assistants that left suggested they were not deemed essential enough to retain.  A changeover in philosophy without a complete blow up of the roster.  

 

Trading a starting corner for an EDGE after you just spent pick 21 for one, also suggests a rebuild without a blow up.

 

I agree about Ryan.

[Shive]

1 minute ago, Smonroe said:

So, are we expecting that if Watson goes to Atlanta, we'll get Ryan.

 

If he goes to the Saints, then maybe Jameis?

That seems to be the common thought I've seen floated around.

[Colt.45]

By the way, lets clarify that term "rebuild". It doesnt mean we're tearing everything down. This isnt the Detroit.

 

10 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

I'm a big Ballard supporter but this isn't a good look on the Colts front office. Maybe the situation was forced on him, which probably was the case by Irsay. But, I feel like Wentz was forced out and Ballard is left trying to figure things out. Screams, no plan, just winging it now. Nobody can say that the plan was to trade Wentz and then see what QB we can manage to find afterwards. A real plan would have the replacement already in queue. Hopefully we get this figured out. If we snag Matt Ryan, that's probably a better fit than Baker.

 

I think that's EXACTLY what the plan is. It's a GREAT look on Irsay. It's them finally doing what they should have done when Andrew walked. It's not a crazy plan, it's a DECISIVE plan. There's no use trying to hold a bird in hand when that bird is rotten.

 

We seriously need to be patient.

[RollerColt]

33 minutes ago, DougDew said:

We already are.  Shhh, don't tell anybody. 

 

It started with getting virtually all new coaches on defense and some on offense, and trading away the starting QB.

True. Like a soft reboot almost. 

[Colt.45]

4 minutes ago, MPStack said:

 

D. Watson for Nelson and draft picks. 

 

 

 

Okay, now how about a suggestion that's actually plausible. Cmon folks.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, MPStack said:

 

D. Watson for Nelson and draft picks. 

 

 

 

Include Leonard and fewer draft picks.  But HOU already thwarted Ballard's advances.

[throwing BBZ]

19 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

the rookies this year would be a stop gap too though 

 

 Based on your crystal ball. HAHAHAHA!  Why post nonsense like this. 

 You nore anyone else on earth has a clue what they will become.

[DoubleE Colt]

I guess I'm in the minority in feeling a little sympathy towards Ballard with the QB situation. Luck retiring left him blindsided a bit, I mean the guy is still only 32 now....in the normal course of events we'd still have an elite QB and probably would have for the next 5 years or more the age they go onto now. There was no choice but to start Brissett really for the season after that and most people agreed he was a game manager at best and not a solution. Rivers came in pretty much herelded as a perfect fit for the Colts and played pretty well all things considered.....now this is the part where I think the story changes a little.... if Rivers was happy to stay for another year then then the obvious mistake was not doing that and losing draft capital on Wentz when many could see the red flags (let's be honest he was a Reich pick and Ballard bowed to that). But then if Rivers told him he wanted to call it a day then again his hand was forced more with the Wentz deal and it's hard to know where else he could have turned (Stafford was never coming here of LA). Then this year kinda looks like he was given the nudge from Irsay to dump Wentz. I mean at the end of the day he's paid top dollar to sort this and be accountable I just don't think it's as much of a dumpster fire on his part as is sometimes portrayed.

[Shive]

Just now, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

There seems to be a theory out there colts have already agreed in trade principle with Ryan. That Watson has already chosen ATL. . But things are just getting ironed out now. Holder said he just can’t verify it.

That makes sense though. ATL couldn't announce the trade for Watson without the Ryan trade also set up. I'm assuming we may be the hold-up on the trade trying to strong arm ATL and leveraging the Watson trade to get more favorable terms in the Ryan trade.

[Dobbinblitz]

If we are partnering with Atlanta for them to secure Watson and make this  happen - I would hope that Ballard secured some of compensation and/or the cost for Ryan is next to nothing. Atlanta cannot pull this off without help. The Soldiers and Sailors monument has more pocket mobility than Ryan at this point.

[Indeee]

47 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The problems with the current roster exist with whomever is the QB.  So I don't understand why the QB position is going to matter much anyway, and why the kvetching over who the exact bandaid will be this year.   Mayfield is probably the best QB of all discussed, and apparently he's not the elite QB everybody wants anyway.

 

But I'm assuming that CB will fill some holes  in FA and the draft yet.  I think Ryan gives Ballard the best shot to have a playoff team this year.  I think that's what he's looking for...waiting and hoping for.... as much as finding the next face of the franchise.

If its Ryan, his contract is larger than any other remaining QB would cost which limits our spending in other areas. That's one main reason

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Most of us are on an internet message board because we have some "Closet GM" in us.  So, of course we have your own roster management approach and trade values in mind.  Net cost is all that matters in this case, and regardless of perception it is unlikely that what Ballard gave for Wentz or what Washington gave Ballard was anything but a reflection of the market for Wentz at that point in time.  Also, we did give Washington a better version of Wentz, I agree, but we also gave them a version of Wentz with a lower perceived ceiling.  The price we paid reflected the potential/ceiling of a franchise guy if Reich could work his magic.  The price they paid reflected stability of a league average QB after Reich did in fact work his magic.

 

Its OK for everything to have worked out OK on that deal, and for Ballard to take another swing with draft capital at risk.  You and I both want exactly the same thing actually, which is to get off the QB mediocrity path.  All trade and FA options keep us on it and it is nonsense to me that we'd spend dollars or picks on short term fixes...but in this case, Ballard really doesn't have much choice.  His roster will age in place and rust away before his very eyes.  He has to find some type of competent experience to hold down the position while he searches for a franchise QB solution to materialize.

The thing I refuse to accept is that Ballard doesn't have much of a choice. Yes he does! He had a choice in 2020 and he chose to go for 3T instead of QB. He had a choice last year and he chose Wentz instead of going for one of the top QB options in the draft. He has an option again today. And if he makes the exact same mistake AGAIN, he will have the same option next year... or lack of options if he again gives up his 2023 1st for another bandaid. I'm just running out of patience for the excuses people give him, like he's some innocent bystander to his own choices and predicaments. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, Shive said:

That makes sense though. ATL couldn't announce the trade for Watson without the Ryan trade also set up. I'm assuming we may be the hold-up on the trade trying to strong arm ATL and leveraging the Watson trade to get more favorable terms in the Ryan trade.

That’s exactly what someone said on Twitter about the colts being  the holdup. Then holder commented said he just can’t verify it.

 

I will say this. Ryan is durable. He will be ready for off season stuff. So no waiting on a guy to heal. He will command instant respect from the locker room like Rivers did.

 

Most important is that Kenny liked a tweet about Ryan lol. So he must like it. Ha Ha.

[philba101]

14 minutes ago, Shive said:

That makes sense though. ATL couldn't announce the trade for Watson without the Ryan trade also set up. I'm assuming we may be the hold-up on the trade trying to strong arm ATL and leveraging the Watson trade to get more favorable terms in the Ryan trade.

Probably the most helpful think Atlanta could do besides draft picks is eat some or most of Ryan's salary.

[pgt_rob]

6 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

  

  Not sure how you missed it but we had to dump Wentz when we did beacuse of the $15M due him in a few days.

 You also somehow don't get that he refused to play as was wanted so the _____ was Fired. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 Reich NEEDED to beg forgiveness as he misjudged his professional relationship with that guy! 

 

The Colts didn't HAVE to dump Wentz due to the fact that the Colts owed him $15M. The Colts have plenty of money. I think you know that, right?

 

Wasn't that the play where Aaron Donald basically almost broke both of Carson's ankles at the same time? Didn't Wentz get so much praise for playing tough through that and didn't miss any games while playing on high ankle sprains? People constantly praised him and said he's a warrior, etc. At what point do you protect the QB that's already mangled from injury? Maybe we could ask Andrew Luck.

[IrsaysArmy]

I don’t think Watson has chosen Atlanta. I think he’s truly torn. I believe he thinks New Orleans is a better option but he doesn’t want to do Atlanta (his hometown) dirty. I think he goes with his gut and picks New Orleans and we sign Famous Jameis shortly after. 

[DoubleE Colt]

3 minutes ago, IrsaysArmy said:

I don’t think Watson has chosen Atlanta. I think he’s truly torn. I believe he thinks New Orleans is a better option but he doesn’t want to do Atlanta (his hometown) dirty. I think he goes with his gut and picks New Orleans and we sign Famous Jameis shortly after. 

Only thing that confuses me is why Watson would reach out to Falcons as has been said only to say no thank you.

[ztboiler]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

The thing I refuse to accept is that Ballard doesn't have much of a choice. Yes he does! He had a choice in 2020 and he chose to go for 3T instead of QB. He had a choice last year and he chose Wentz instead of going for one of the top QB options in the draft. He has an option again today. And if he makes the exact same mistake AGAIN, he will have the same option next year... or lack of options if he again gives up his 2023 1st for another bandaid. I'm just running out of patience for the excuses people give him, like he's some innocent bystander to his own choices and predicaments. 

Certainly he has choices...and had those hindsight choices of the last 2 years in particular.  It's a huge miss to have Buckner on the roster instead of Herbert when Herbert was in reach for a price.  It's all on Ballard in that case, and Mac Jones is multiplying the culpability as we speak...if Fields turns out to be a Franchise guy then it just gets worse.  Ballard is making his mistakes to be sure by holding his powder.  It's just never quite that easy...

 

If their honest scouting assessment is that there isn't a day 1 starter in this draft, then Ballard really doesn't have a choice but to spend some cap or draft capital on QB experience this off season to get him to the day where his franchise guy is either developed or available.

[pgt_rob]

17 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

By the way, lets clarify that term "rebuild". It doesnt mean we're tearing everything down. This isnt the Detroit.

 

 

I think that's EXACTLY what the plan is. It's a GREAT look on Irsay. It's them finally doing what they should have done when Andrew walked. It's not a crazy plan, it's a DECISIVE plan. There's no use trying to hold a bird in hand when that bird is rotten.

 

We seriously need to be patient.

 

I don't think it's a GREAT look, but it's definitely a look.... So the plan was to trade away Carson Wentz, who had a pretty decent year with us, to scramble to find someone to fill the hole when it could possibly be someone way worse than Carson Wentz? Not sure how that's a good plan when they don't have someone already in mind. You can tell Ballard is scrambling when we get reports from Schefter saying that we called HOUSTON to talk about trading Watson to the COLTS. Houston basically laughed and hung up on Ballard. That to me screams, no plan.... Not a "DECISIVE" plan that you say it is. Surely, we will find a QB because we need one. Hopefully it's Matt Ryan as he would be a good fit in the organization.  

[Shive]

20 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 Based on your crystal ball. HAHAHAHA!  Why post nonsense like this. 

 You nore anyone else on earth has a clue what they will become.

I think they meant more in terms of immediate impact. This draft class has been widely considered one where there is not one QB that would be ready to start day 1, so anyone we drafted would leave us with a year or 2 of a band-aid in place until they are ready to start. It's not a question of what they may become, but a question of how soon they would be ready to actually step into that starting role.

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Certainly he has choices...and had those hindsight choices of the last 2 years in particular.  It's a huge miss to have Buckner on the roster instead of Herbert when Herbert was in reach for a price.  It's all on Ballard in that case, and Mac Jones is multiplying the culpability as we speak...if Fields turns out to be a Franchise guy then it just gets worse.  Ballard is making his mistakes to be sure by holding his powder.  It's just never quite that easy...

 

If their honest scouting assessment is that there isn't a day 1 starter in this draft, then Ballard really doesn't have a choice but to spend some cap or draft capital on QB experience this off season to get him to the day where his franchise guy is either developed or available.

Even if they don't like a QB in this draft, he still has a choice to refuse to give up major assets for temporary solutions that won't give us anything more than the free options(Winston, Mariota) can give us. Just get Winston for free and keep the powder dry for next year if you don't like any of the options this year. He doesn't have to give his premier picks for a QB he will ditch next year.