The QBs

[Myles]

3 hours ago, groundnpound said:

I thought Eason was getting better, the big sack was painful but not a lot he could do. He definitely has an NFL arm. Sam was pretty good, nifty player that could give some d's fits if they're not prepared for his legs. The pick was awful, but he does seem to have a good grasp on how to play small ball and succeed. I like both these kids and I believe we'll have a much better idea after Ehlinger's start.

Uh C'mon, getting a potential back up QB in the 6th round isn't that bad.

[coltsfan1965]

I hate to be wishy washy, but I am a bit on this. I also realize that I am not an NFL coach or executive and that I do not spend every day with these guys. 

If I'm trying to win one game right now, which may actually be the situation, I want Ehlinger. In general, "mobile" quarterbacks in the NFL not named Mahomes get killed. Everyone is so much faster than in college. However, for one or two games, it may give a better chance to win. Being able to move does slow down the rush.

If I want a quarterback to develop into a starter or backup who delivers from one game to the next, I want Eason. You can teach a big armed quarterback to have touch. You cannot teach someone to throw the way Eason does. I'm old enough to remember when John Elway was young and everyone claimed he threw everything too hard. Eason is not Elway, but the term "Eason Cross" may be applicable at times. 

The other question, then, is how quickly each can read and make decisions. Apparently, Ehlinger is better at this right now, at least in practice. This is another thing that can be taught, to an extent, but as I've said before, there are plenty of "cannon" arms who washed out in the NFL. Guys like Kyle Boller and Jamarcus Russell are more the rule than the exception.

[shasta519]

I mean...I don't feel good about either starting actual NFL games yet (and winning them), but it wasn't bad for being the first preseason game. And let's not gloss over the fact that CAR didn't dress any of their starters. But the completion % was a pleasant surprise.

 

Not the prettiest football, but it was great to be at a Colts game again. 

 

Eason has a really strong arm and can make NFL passes. But he has a really long windup and throws fastballs a lot without much touch. Very simple offense with him too...lots of first reads. Very very little mobility and not good pocket awareness.

 

The offense with the Eason reminds me of 2019 with JB (without JB's ability to evade sacks).

 

Ehlinger is like the opposite of Eason. He has a much weaker arm. I need to see how that plays against guys that aren't 4th or 5th stringers. Really rock start, but dropped a couple of nice passes on that last drive. He is definitely much more mobile and has a sense of what is going on around him. That mobility served him well when CAR kept dropping back to cover pass catchers.

 

Not really sure what an offense with Ehlinger would look like. He had 8 carries in one half of football. We are talking about an offense that I have never seen from Reich. 

[shasta519]

On a side note, PJ Walker played great. He's really fun to watch. IF he just had a bit more accuracy on some of those passes, I think he could actually be a decent NFL QB. 

 

But his mobility was on full display in this game. And I am guessing he was told not to run because I think he could have had 50 yards on the ground in that half, given how both teams were playing the pass.

 

I hope he gets the backup job in CAR. He has really come a long way since the Phillip Walker we saw in preseason games.

[shasta519]

12 hours ago, Nickster said:

Most of that was the Int on the first throw.  Someone said the receiver ran the wrong route,  after that Sam moved the ball.

 

Eason reminds me Jacoby only a little better. Beautiful ball with touch to Campbell and a couple other nice throws. Good fastball without pressure, no secondary pitch.  Doesn’t check down well. Early they ran a lot of 1 read plays for him.  I think if Eason starts it will be a little ugly.  Sam gives us a better chance ImO if forced to start.   
 

if we don’t get Wentz back soon we will struggle mightily in the passing game.

 

Yep. Eason is a bit better passer than JB and will throw actually downfield. But even though he was slow, JB was more mobile and was much better at avoiding pressure. So it's definitely a big trade off. 

 

Just hope that OL gets healthy because Eason is going to need a clean pocket to throw from. 

 

Overall, I am not particularly excited about either. But it's also only one preseason game. I just see very real limitations in the offense.

 

(It's funny too that Chad Kelly played better in the preseason than either of these guys did in this game. And Chad Kelly is a running punchline around here because a few people wanted to see him get a shot.)

[shasta519]

13 hours ago, Stephen said:

We can probably win with both qbs as long as they aren't turning the football over

 

I like their chances of winning their first preseason game with both.

[Mrfox]

The sack fumble happened in 1.9 seconds. 
 

cant hold that against Eason.

[Old Colt]

16 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

I don’t think one starting oline played. Not sure if glow did or not. But smith didn’t play either. I am not worked if the oline is intact.

None of the OL starters played....  Eason was a bit better then i expected, needs to back off on the short stuff, add some touch.  That will come with reps and experience.  Sam was good, but was up against the  last of the roster in the 4th from the Panthers.  good game overall.  WR's were very good.

[The Fish]

PFF graded out Eason as only the best of all QB's in the first week. Some of you didn't notice that the dude has a legit arm and with a healthy line in front of him- he'd be fine to play for a couple of weeks if need be. I wouldn't say that about Sam, but I think he showed some good things too yesterday, but by way of comparison- I'm again confused at those of you who think it's obvious Eason stinks and Ehlinger is Drew Brees (I saw a Drew Brees comp yesterday- just lol).

[indyagent17]

I thought Eason managed the game well but he pocket presence needs a lot of work including the clock in his head

[shasta519]

28 minutes ago, Mrfox said:

The sack fumble happened in 1.9 seconds. 
 

cant hold that against Eason.

 

I disagree. Eason has to step up there...or move up and to the right. There was nothing but daylight there. Eason is like 10 yards behind the LOS, so it's not like it was a short drop where he was completely blind to his left side. He has to sense that.

 

The LT did his job if Eason moves up.

 

Eason will learn, but pocket awareness appears to still be an area for improvement.

[shasta519]

13 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

I thought Eason managed the game well but he pocket presence needs a lot of work including the clock in his head

 

Pocket presence is what I am going to really watch going forward. I also hope Reich opens up the offense so I also can see how he goes through his progressions. Seemed like it was first read every time.

[GoColts8818]

4 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

I disagree. Eason has to step up there...or move up and to the right. There was nothing but daylight there. Eason is like 10 yards behind the LOS, so it's not like it was a short drop where he was completely blind to his left side. He has to sense that.

 

The LT did his job if Eason moves up.

 

Eason will learn, but pocket awareness appears to still be an area for improvement.

If a sack happens within 1.9 seconds you can’t say the left tackle is blameless even if the QB can step up.  

[shasta519]

21 minutes ago, The Fish said:

PFF graded out Eason as only the best of all QB's in the first week. Some of you didn't notice that the dude has a legit arm and with a healthy line in front of him- he'd be fine to play for a couple of weeks if need be. I wouldn't say that about Sam, but I think he showed some good things too yesterday, but by way of comparison- I'm again confused at those of you who think it's obvious Eason stinks and Ehlinger is Drew Brees (I saw a Drew Brees comp yesterday- just lol).

 

As a passer, Eason was really good at executing the pass plays. And Eason is clearly the better passer. But I think Eason is a bit boring to people though. And he has very clear limitations.

 

Ehlinger just plays a different brand of football...that we really haven't seen for a long time. But a Brees comp is pretty funny. As someone said earlier, I want to see Ehlinger scramble against starting caliber defensive players, as well as throw those floaters into double coverage. 

 

Something that hasn't been mentioned is that I don't remember the Colts not completing a downfield pass. That's probably not a fair expectation to have going forward. 

 

 

 

 

[shasta519]

6 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

If a sack happens within 1.9 seconds you can’t say the left tackle is blameless even if the QB can step up.  

 

He's not blameless in that situation, obviously. I am just saying the LT did enough there. He rode the ER 10 yards past the LOS. Eason only got hit on the arm, so if moves at all, he's not getting touched.

 

That's more on Eason for being a statute and not stepping up. If you are going to be an immobile QB, you have to have pocket presence.

 

In the play, he's clearly staring at his first read. And since he's 10 yard behind the LOS, he can see what's happening and he can see the room he has to move up. He only got hit on the arm, so if moves at all, he's not getting touched.

 

It's just something he will have to get better at. If Eason requires a completely clean pocket (that far behind the LOS) all the time then that's a problem.

 

 

[The Fish]

10 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

As a passer, Eason was really good at executing the pass plays. And Eason is clearly the better passer. But I think Eason is a bit boring to people though. And he has very clear limitations.

 

Ehlinger just plays a different brand of football...that we really haven't seen for a long time. But a Brees comp is pretty funny. As someone said earlier, I want to see Ehlinger scramble against starting caliber defensive players, as well as throw those floaters into double coverage. 

 

Something that hasn't been mentioned is that I don't remember the Colts not completing a downfield pass. That's probably not a fair expectation to have going forward. 

 

 

 

 

Without sounding argumentative (because I'm not really arguing here).. I must have seen a different game. I keep seeing posts about the guy being "boring", "limited" or "not interesting" (because he wasn't drafted in the first round).. What on earth. Does every QB need to double as Barry Sanders? I don't get it frankly. Anyway, the PFF crowd saw what I saw. Also taking into consideration the nature of the opposition in front of him (and what he didn't have on the o-line speaks loudly to my judgment) it's just a different sample all together. Ehlinger looked okay-ish (his brand of football.. ) against guys who are going to be stocking shelves in a few weeks. I don't think that can be understated. If he was going to be able to operate against starters, he probably should have looked like Drew Brees against the string. 

[GoColts8818]

7 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

He's not blameless in that situation, obviously. I am just saying the LT did enough there. He rode the ER 10 yards past the LOS. Eason only got hit on the arm, so if moves at all, he's not getting touched.

 

That's more on Eason for being a statute and not stepping up. If you are going to be an immobile QB, you have to have pocket presence.

 

In the play, he's clearly staring at his first read. And since he's 10 yard behind the LOS, he can see what's happening and he can see the room he has to move up. He only got hit on the arm, so if moves at all, he's not getting touched.

 

It's just something he will have to get better at. If Eason requires a completely clean pocket (that far behind the LOS) all the time then that's a problem.

 

 

He didn’t do enough.  It’s possible to say the QB should step up in that situation but also the LT has to hold his block for longer than 1.9 seconds. 

[GoColts8818]

6 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Without sounding argumentative (because I'm not really arguing here).. I must have seen a different game. I keep seeing posts about the guy being "boring", "limited" or "not interesting" (because he wasn't drafted in the first round).. What on earth. Does every QB need to double as Barry Sanders? I don't get it frankly. Anyway, the PFF crowd saw what I saw. Also taking into consideration the nature of the opposition in front of him (and what he didn't have on the o-line speaks loudly to my judgment) it's just a different sample all together. Ehlinger looked okay-ish (his brand of football.. ) against guys who are going to be stocking shelves in a few weeks. I don't think that can be understated. If he was going to be able to operate against starters, he probably should have looked like Drew Brees against the string. 

We will get a better idea next week when Sam starts and Eason’s comes off the bench.  Frankly I liked what I saw from both yesterday overall but both did have moments that they can improve.  That’s to be expected from two guys taking their first ever NFL snaps.  
 

Right now I give the edge to Eason because he did it against guys higher up the depth chart but Sam will get his chance this week.  
 

Honestly I think the Colts have a good problem on their hands with the back up QB spot and Colts fans are feeling much better about the backup QB spot right now than they did a couple of weeks ago.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I think so far yesterday proved teams need to draft and develop their own backups.  Your going to have a lot more success when you  do this then going out and getting a journeyman vet.  You have your backup in the system forming relationships.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, Wentzszn said:

I think so far yesterday proved teams need to draft and develop their own backups.  Your going to have a lot more success when you  do this then going out and getting a journeyman vet.  You have your backup in the system forming relationships.

Curtis Painter is on line one for you and Matt Hasselbeck is one line two.

 

Frankly it comes down to can the guy play.  If he can it doesn’t matter if you draft and develop him or go get one like the Colts did with Hasselbeck.  If they can’t play it doesn’t matter how much you try to develop them it’s never going to work, again see Painter.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

Curtis Painter is on line one for you and Matt Hasselbeck is one line two.

 

Frankly it comes down to can the guy play.  If he can it doesn’t matter if you draft and develop him or go get one like the Colts did with Hasselbeck.  If they can’t play it doesn’t matter how much you try to develop them it’s never going to work, again see Painter.  

Matt wasn’t drafted by the colts. I will give you painter. But Ballard is a lot better talent evaluator then the previous regime.

[GoColts8818]

7 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

 

Eason did very well for himself yesterday.  Two things he needs to work on are going through his progressions a little faster (although he did that a couple of times really well yesterday) and touch passes.  Not every pass has to be thrown as hard as he can.  I think those will come in time.  
 

Sam I think did ok.  He kinda struggled in the third but had a very good fourth quarter and his ability to move is something you just can’t teach.  He also seems to be a head of Eason on going through his reads but I think Eason is ahead on making better decisions like not panicking and knowing when he was beat a couple of times yesterday and taking the sack where as Sam tried to force the ball a couple of times including getting one picked on a pass that should have never been thrown.  

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Matt wasn’t drafted by the colts. I will give you painter. But Ballard is a lot better talent evaluator then the previous regime.

Matt not being drafted by the Colts was my point.  If a guy can play it doesn’t matter if you go out and get him.  
 

Also Polian, who is in the Hall of Fame, drafted Painter so let’s pump the breaks on saying Ballard is a better talent evaluator than Polian.

[throwing BBZ]

13 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

He needs to take heat off on some of those intermediate in the middle of the field throws. He did fine with the boundary and the touch throw to Campbell. Sometimes you need that velocity to stick it in there and other times you don’t. He just needs to learn that. He did have one completion that needed the velocity to get it in there.  So just learning the difference on when it’s needed.

 

 Imagine how much is going on inside his head trying to read the D and process the pass routes. Throw in some nerves and boogity, boogity, boogity.
 Never forget the Great Manning came in, had a long off season, pre-season, Marvin, and i'm sure took every snap, and flavored us with 28 Int's his rookie year. I'd bet my Q autographed hat neither of our rookies would approach that #. 
 There is a lot of work to be done but i suspect Frank and his offensive staff are realing enjoying the "process" of coaching up both these young men.
 We are still 28 days from the opener as i count it. A lot of time to get 1% better...
  We have to cut 5 by Tuesday
   5 more next week 
  and then to 53 after the last game.
 Practice squad is 16 players
 with up to 6 of them with more than 2 years of experience.

[throwing BBZ]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Matt not being drafted by the Colts was my point.  If a guy can play it doesn’t matter if you go out and get him.  
 

Also Polian, who is in the Hall of Fame, drafted Painter so let’s pump the breaks on saying Ballard is a better talent evaluator than Polian.

 

 That regime was Grigson and Chuck.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, throwing BBZ said:

 

 That regime was Grigson and Chuck.

We were taking about painter.  They didn’t draft painter or try to develop him.  In fact one of the first things Grigson did was cut Painter.

[The Fish]

5 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Eason did very well for himself yesterday.  Two things he needs to work on are going through his progressions a little faster (although he did that a couple of times really well yesterday) and touch passes.  Not every pass has to be thrown as hard as he can.  I think those will come in time.  
 

Sam I think did ok.  He kinda struggled in the third but had a very good fourth quarter and his ability to move is something you just can’t teach.  He also seems to be a head of Eason on going through his reads but I think Eason is ahead on making better decisions like not panicking and knowing when he was beat a couple of times yesterday and taking the sack where as Sam tried to force the ball a couple of times including getting one picked on a pass that should have never been thrown.  

 I don't think you're going to see a wild swing in potentials by swapping out who gets to start. Realistically, it's probable that Eason is going to have an even better outing against the Vikings 2/3 string guys. 

 

 

[GoColts8818]

Just now, The Fish said:

 I don't think you're going to see a wild swing in potentials by swapping out who gets to start. Realistically, it's probable that Eason is going to have an even better outing against the Vikings 2/3 string guys. 

 

 

I don’t either and don’t expect it.  I am just saying we will have a better idea of where things stand after the next game.  Honestly I kinda expect Sam to struggle and Eason to do really well but i could be wrong.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

9 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I don’t either and don’t expect it.  I am just saying we will have a better idea of where things stand after the next game.  Honestly I kinda expect Sam to struggle and Eason to do really well but i could be wrong.

I don’t even know if we will. Because Eason hasn’t played with Pittman, pascal and Hilton and Sam probably will. We will see how long those guys actually play. Sam may get playing time mostly with Patmon and Strachan if those guys only play a series. Maybe Eason gets most his time with the guys that starred yesterday. 
 

Also we will see how long Vikings defensive starters play. 

[throwing BBZ]

21 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

We were taking about painter.  They didn’t draft painter or try to develop him.  In fact one of the first things Grigson did was cut Painter.

 

 Sorry, someone mentioned Matt, and was dissing him also as i took it, a guy from the previous regime. No problem.

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Sorry, someone mentioned Matt, and was dissing him also as i took it, a guy from the previous regime. No problem.

I brought up Matt not as a diss but as example of a very good back up QB who came from outside of the organization.  My overall point is there is no hard and set rule that says developing your own is better than going and get a journeyman vet.  It all depends on who the guys are and I was using Painter, a failed guy the Colts tried to develop, and Matt a very successful vet back up as examples to prove my point.

[stitches]

 

 

This is an insanely high grade. 

[Myles]

I wonder which way Reich is trending with the offense.  Is he going to throw downfield allot more with Granson, Strachan, Pittman, Campbell and Hilton ot will it be more of the offense he has run the past couple years?

[richard pallo]

16 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

This is an insanely high grade. 

IMO Eason should be starting against the Vikings this week.  He earned it.  But Frank already committed to Sam so he will get the next start.

[Knuckles79]

I think both play as good as expected but to me  Eason offers higher upside. That running is entertaining to watch at times but me myself I would rather have a Qb that can make all the nfl throws

[MikeCurtis]

12 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

I just watched the highlights and all I can say is wow by our WRs 

 

Ehlingers windup was painfully slow. 

Agree with the first point, 

 

The speed of release is a combination of seeing the open (or soon to be open) spot, then releasing the ball

 

Eason appears to be slow in reads, but a "medium" release....  (His release isnt that fast) 

 

Sam E. has significantly quicker reads, but a slower (at least in comparison) in release.

 

BOTH will get a QB sacked or will turn the ball over

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RollerColt]

It's inconclusive to me at this point still. Eason played against the 2s of Carolina while Sam had the 3rds and 4ths. Will next week tell us more? Maybe... I liked both of them for many of the reasons everyone else has posted. Eason can throw a very good ball, and Sam has the killer instinct. 

 

I think we keep both QBs for the season. With COVID and injuries running rampant, it's going to be crucial to have multiple viable backups. I wouldn't be surprised if we keep our 3rd string QB away from the rest of the team just for quarantine purposes. 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

18 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

IMO Eason should be starting against the Vikings this week.  He earned it.  But Frank already committed to Sam so he will get the next start.

It makes me mad he committed to that before the game yesterday. We need to see Eason with the starters. 

[stitches]