Wentz vs Fields

[BProland85]

Knowing what we know now with what was given up to get Fields, would you have rather Ballard traded for Wentz like he did, by giving up most likely a 2022 1st, and 2021 3rd, or would you have rather had him trade up to draft Fields by giving up their 21st overall pick in 2021, 2021 3rd, and 2022 1st? That was right around what Chicago gave up to trade up and get him. 

 

I would like to state that I do fully believe in Wentz's talents and abilities, and hope Reich gets the best out of him once again and shuts all his haters up. 

[Chucklez]

4 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

Knowing what we know now, would you have rather Ballard traded for Wentz like he did, by giving up most likely a 2022 1st, and 2021 3rd, or would you have rather had him trade up to draft Fields by giving up their 21st overall pick in 2021, 2021 3rd, and 2022 1st? That was right around what Chicago gave up to trade up and get him. 

 

I would like to state that I do fully believe in Wentz's talents and abilities, and hope Reich gets the best out of him once again and shuts all his haters up. 

Not to be contrite or over abrasive here, but what exactly do we know now that we didn't before the draft or before we made the trade for Wentz?

Neither have taken a snap for their respective teams, we know absolutely nothing about their worth/value compared to what was given up for each. Let's talk at the end of the season, that's when we will be able to say "Knowing what we know now" and not really a moment before then.

[KelownaColtsFan]

This will be an interesting question to revisit next February at the earliest. Kinda hard to answer with a sample size of zero.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

32 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

Knowing what we know now with what was given up to get Fields, would you have rather Ballard traded for Wentz like he did, by giving up most likely a 2022 1st, and 2021 3rd, or would you have rather had him trade up to draft Fields by giving up their 21st overall pick in 2021, 2021 3rd, and 2022 1st? That was right around what Chicago gave up to trade up and get him. 

 

I would like to state that I do fully believe in Wentz's talents and abilities, and hope Reich gets the best out of him once again and shuts all his haters up. 

They didn’t give up their 21 1st round draft pick. They got fields with the pick br moving up. I don’t think the bears gave much at all.

 

There was no guarantee we would of been able to outbid the bears. Moving up higher then where the bears moved up too would of cost more. 

I think Wentz  is perfect for this team. Still young with a team who is still young. So it still gives us a big window to win a SB. 
 

 

[NewColtsFan]

6 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

They didn’t give up their 21 1st round draft pick. They got fields with the pick br moving up. I don’t think the bears gave much at all.

 

There was no guarantee we would of been able to outbid the bears. Moving up higher then where the bears moved up too would of cost more. 

I think Wentz  is perfect for this team. Still young with a team who is still young. So it still gives us a big window to win a SB. 
 

 

 

Huh?

 

Of course the Bears gave up their 21 first round pick.     What makes you think otherwise....

 

This story gives you the full terms.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/bears-trade-up-to-no-11-with-giants-draft-qb-justin-fields

[NewColtsFan]

 

Even with the benefit of hindsight,  I'm very good with the deal.    Even if we had not made the Wentz deal and done a deal better than Chicago and moved up for Fields,   there's no promise that Fields would ever be good,  and there's certainly a strong likelihood that Fields wouldn't even be ready to start in 2021,  much less start and win.

 

This team is ready to win now.   Built to win now.    We needed a QB ready to win now.    Not 2-4 years from now.

 

[TheNextGM]

It’s the same price as Wentz PLUS Kwity Paye.

 

I’m happy with what Ballard did.

Wentz is going to be great. 

[GoColts8818]

I don’t believe in Fields so sign me up for Wentz.

[MPStack]

This will be a more interesting debate, if the Colts fail to win 10-11 games in 2021. The schedule is brutal and is Wentz going to return to his 2017 form or continue declining. Hope I’m wrong, but I won’t be surprised if the Colts don’t make the playoffs in 2021. 
 

 
 

 

[LiveAndLetAddai]

  If the Colts were to look at trading up for Fields, it would have cost more than trading for Wentz, a proven starter.  Plus the loss of Payne...I really don't see how anyone could see it differently?

[LiveAndLetAddai]

22 minutes ago, MPStack said:

This will be a more interesting debate, if the Colts fail to win 10-11 games in 2021. The schedule is brutal and is Wentz going to return to his 2017 form or continue declining. Hope I’m wrong, but I won’t be surprised if the Colts don’t make the playoffs in 2021. 
 

 
 

 

  If that is the case, and I sincerely hope it is not, the Colts should sit him and play Eason.  It will assure that they keep their 1st rounder and there is a lesser dead cap hit after 2022.  Maybe one of the cap savvy members can better articulate?

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

I wish we had both of them and Julio.  

   .   

[DougDew]

Generally speaking, I do not want to build a team that needs to have a hero type of QB.  If we had Fields, we'd be spending capital on a QB that we do not need, and would prefer to spend the capital elsewhere.  IMO, QB-centric capital and talent contributed to the Colts achieving less during the PM and Luck years than what we hoped.

 

If Wentz can be Rivers with a few more FD conversions with his legs and a few more long TDs to TY, he might be the perfect Qb for our system and cap structure.

[NewColtsFan]

31 minutes ago, MPStack said:

This will be a more interesting debate, if the Colts fail to win 10-11 games in 2021. The schedule is brutal and is Wentz going to return to his 2017 form or continue declining. Hope I’m wrong, but I won’t be surprised if the Colts don’t make the playoffs in 2021. 
 

 
 

 

I guess the post season analysis would decide how much of the blame would belong to Wentz.   But the thing is, the way Wentz’s contract is set up, he’s going to get at least one more year.   It’s a 2 year trial, not one. 

[DattMavis]

Knowing what I now know, I wish we would’ve traded whatever it took to draft Justin Herbert, or I wish we would’ve traded Luck to draft Mahomes and get a lot more picks. The truth is that you really don’t know. Every player is a gamble, and we just have to hope that Ballard keeps hitting more than he misses.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

50 minutes ago, DattMavis said:

Knowing what I now know, I wish we would’ve traded whatever it took to draft Justin Herbert, or I wish we would’ve traded Luck to draft Mahomes and get a lot more picks. The truth is that you really don’t know. Every player is a gamble, and we just have to hope that Ballard keeps hitting more than he misses.

We were in a great spot to trade up for Herbert. But we only had two teams we could of traded with. The giants and I believe the lions.  They may not have wanted to trade. Then that means we Would not of gotten Buckner. I think Herbert would of been able to win right away with this team. Character wise he was the perfect fit too.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

I guess the post season analysis would decide how much of the blame would belong to Wentz.   But the thing is, the way Wentz’s contract is set up, he’s going to get at least one more year.   It’s a 2 year trial, not one. 

Year two is where we should really see him hit his ceiling. We are going to have to have a little patience with him this first year until everyone gets used to each other. I think he will be good this year bur 22 is where it should really click.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Generally speaking, I do not want to build a team that needs to have a hero type of QB.  If we had Fields, we'd be spending capital on a QB that we do not need, and would prefer to spend the capital elsewhere.  IMO, QB-centric capital and talent contributed to the Colts achieving less during the PM and Luck years than what we hoped.

 

If Wentz can be Rivers with a few more FD conversions with his legs and a few more long TDs to TY, he might be the perfect Qb for our system and cap structure.

 

I have to disagree with you Doug. Yeah I see your point on not being dependent on a QB that needs to throw for 400 yards a game with no defense, running game, or OL and  not having a balanced team. But in my opinion, and I think many others, if you don't have a elite QB your at a Disadvantage. 

 

Maholmes, along with a couple elite weapons and a excellent coach has made KC a Dominant team. Brady, everybody's GOAT has been to like a gazillion championship games and Super Bowls.

One of the main reasons we lost to Buffalo is because we were at a Disadvantage at QB, Rivers was inferior to Allen.

The reason we only won 1 super bowl was Manning's playoff performances weren't usually as good as his regular season accolades and he couldn't get past Brady & Belichek and was out dueled by a another elite QB named Brees.

 

And Wentz is getting paid  like $25 million which isn't chicken fee. Fields is on a rookie contract and is getting paid less than Wentz..... at least for the next few years. 

 

Personally I don't know who I would rather have. I was a advocate for trading for Wentz from the beginning.  

But I also was very high on Fields,  but like everyone else felt he was out of range with our draft position and draft stock. I didn't think he would fall where he did. 

I think having a potential super star rookie QB would have been exciting but Wentz probably gives us a better chance of winning now. 

We'll see how it plays out soon enough. 

[AwesomeAustin]

Wentz and Paye over Fields. Will be hard to truly judge bc Chicago is QB wasteland.  Poor kid doesn’t stand a chance and will likely have a new coach and GM next year. 

[DougDew]

10 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I have to disagree with you Doug. Yeah I see your point on not being dependent on a QB that needs to throw for 400 yards a game with no defense, running game, or OL and  not having a balanced team. But in my opinion, and I think many others, if you don't have a elite QB your at a Disadvantage. 

 

Maholmes, along with a couple elite weapons and a excellent coach has made KC a Dominant team. Brady, everybody's GOAT has been to like a gazillion championship games and Super Bowls.

One of the main reasons we lost to Buffalo is because we were at a Disadvantage at QB, Rivers was inferior to Allen.

The reason we only won 1 super bowl was Manning's playoff performances weren't usually as good as his regular season accolades and he couldn't get past Brady & Belichek and was out dueled by a another elite QB named Brees.

 

And Wentz is getting paid  like $25 million which isn't chicken fee. Fields is on a rookie contract and is getting paid less than Wentz..... at least for the next few years. 

 

Personally I don't know who I would rather have. I was a advocate for trading for Wentz from the beginning.  

But I also was very high on Fields,  but like everyone else felt he was out of range with our draft position and draft stock. I didn't think he would fall where he did. 

I think having a potential super star rookie QB would have been exciting but Wentz probably gives us a better chance of winning now. 

We'll see how it plays out soon enough. 

Taking NE and Brady out of this because I think what they did was unique.

 

My observation is that the teams with the elite QB have more success BEFORE that QB gets paid his contract than after he gets paid.

 

SB teams have won, IMO, because they have gotten elite play from some players at the same time not compensating those players for the elite play.  They produce more than what the team pays them that season.

 

SEA was better when Russell Wilson was playing near elite QB before his contract.

PITT was better when Ben was younger not being paid.

I know injuries played a part, but the early Grigson Luck years were much better for the Colts than the $125M years.

KC rode an elite Mahomes on a rookie contract to domination over recent seasons.

BUFF is enjoying Allen's low pay day relative to his talent and play.  What will happen to them when he gets paid?

 

(and another version of that formula, even though Denver paid PM, they got a huge boost from an elite Von Miller playing an impactful position on a cheap rookie contract)

 

OTOH.

 

NO has been paying Brees and hasn't quite gotten there consistently.

ATL pays Ryan and got their once.

PITT has been playing Ben but they have not been an elite team with him at that pay scale.

I suspect that Lamar will never earn top tier QB money, yet BALT will be right there with all of those teams.

 

We made our bed when we picked a G at 6, and will pay him elite Olineman money.  I don't see where we are going to be putting the ball in our QBs hands every play and ask him to win the game when we are paying a G to also run block at an elite level.  We will probably always be more of a running team than the average playoff team because of our investment in our G.  Taking the ball out of our QBs hands means that we will not also never truly need that top guy.

 

And we will win with Wentz if he outplays what has been invested in him.  If he plays like a 3rd rounder and future 1st (just for starting, IOW, because he happens to be the best QB on the roster) then we probably wont go deep into the playoffs. He will always be compensated less than top tier simply because he will be getting old.

 

Maybe we should have taken Fields and hoped he gave us elite play on the cheap before we'd have to decide between him and Nelson.   

[Thebrashandthebold]

On 6/18/2021 at 8:10 AM, BProland85 said:

Knowing what we know now with what was given up to get Fields, would you have rather Ballard traded for Wentz like he did, by giving up most likely a 2022 1st, and 2021 3rd, or would you have rather had him trade up to draft Fields by giving up their 21st overall pick in 2021, 2021 3rd, and 2022 1st? That was right around what Chicago gave up to trade up and get him. 

 

I would like to state that I do fully believe in Wentz's talents and abilities, and hope Reich gets the best out of him once again and shuts all his haters up. 

I am in a "wait and see" mode about Wentz. I don't think you will ever fully see the "good" Wentz ever again. I do think you will see the "bad" Wentz again but perhaps not as bad as he was last year. I don't see him reaching the lofty numbers here are suggesting. I think 3500 yards and 30 touchdowns with a dozen INTs would be more like it. It may take more than one year to get him back to "good" too. However, I don't think the Colts needed a rookie with a team that is built to win now or next year. A veteran QB was a good move but perhaps a more reliable one than Wentz. I would have much preferred Stafford but we didn't have enough to offer for him without hurting the team.

 

[DownHillRunner]

On 6/19/2021 at 12:13 PM, Thebrashandthebold said:

I am in a "wait and see" mode about Wentz. I don't think you will ever fully see the "good" Wentz ever again. I do think you will see the "bad" Wentz again but perhaps not as bad as he was last year. I don't see him reaching the lofty numbers here are suggesting. I think 3500 yards and 30 touchdowns with a dozen INTs would be more like it. It may take more than one year to get him back to "good" too. However, I don't think the Colts needed a rookie with a team that is built to win now or next year. A veteran QB was a good move but perhaps a more reliable one than Wentz. I would have much preferred Stafford but we didn't have enough to offer for him without hurting the team.

 

 

I disagree with your statement. Rivers threw for 4000 yards in this offense last season and he was a statue back there. People keep forgetting Wentz is a very mobile Quarterback. Being a mobile QB allows you to extend plays, scramble for yards when nobody is open, and keeps the defense on his heels. I expect Wentz to have a monster season. You know how many people are writing him off after one bad season? Its called, playing with a chip on your shoulder mentality. 

[Thebrashandthebold]

1 hour ago, DownHillRunner said:

 

I disagree with your statement. Rivers threw for 4000 yards in this offense last season and he was a statue back there. People keep forgetting Wentz is a very mobile Quarterback. Being a mobile QB allows you to extend plays, scramble for yards when nobody is open, and keeps the defense on his heels. I expect Wentz to have a monster season. You know how many people are writing him off after one bad season? Its called, playing with a chip on your shoulder mentality. 

I don't care how mobile he is. 4,000 yards is a load especially in for a team that emphasizes the running game. I don't think he will get close to getting there and it won't matter if everything works as planned. An efficient 3500 yards with 30 TDs is a good season for a comeback player. You discount how great Rivers was last year. TY is a year older and the WRs are full of suspects as much as they are prospects.

 

[bleevit]

Old man Rivers had a bad year with San Diego the year before he came to the Colts. The O-line was good enough to keep him upright and gather in an 11-5 season. In the case of Wentz, the mobility he possesses and his relationship with Reich (which Rivers also had) bode well for him in 2021. To stay on topic, Wentz with these advantages should be far ahead of anything Fields might become as a rookie QB. I look for a good year even though the schedule is tough. The team is very young and should progress nicely as the year wears on through 17 games. Also the preseason format the Colts chose should make them fresher through the season. The dark spot is the very late bye week, but who knows at this point.