Mike Francesa WFAN NY praising Reich + Ballard

[dw49]

3 hours ago, Trueman said:

And yet , they suck. A generational RB is nice , but if you don't have more important positions covered , it means nothing. 

They passed up on a franchise QB for a franchise RB. That makes no sense - at all. 

Now they're probably banking on Herbert declaring , and if he doesn't , they'll still have no long term answer. Next year's draft QB class is nowhere's near as good as 2018's. 

And , if they do get Herbert , it's still Darnold>Herbert , imo... and I don't think it's particularly close. 
 

 

I THINK MAYBE THE GIANTS WERE NOT CONVINCED THERE WAS A FRANCHISE QB AVAILABLE AT 2.

[Trueman]

1 minute ago, dw49 said:

 

I THINK MAYBE THE GIANTS WERE NOT CONVINCED THERE WAS A FRANCHISE QB AVAILABLE AT 2.

Not sure why you felt the need to caps lock that comment , but to each his own. 

I'm not sure that was the case , I think they were comfortable with Eli and Gettleman was beyond enamoured with Barkley. 

Either way, if for some reason he didn't rate Darnold (lord knows why) , he should've traded down. 

 

[dw49]

6 minutes ago, Trueman said:

Not sure why you felt the need to caps lock that comment , but to each his own. 

I'm not sure that was the case , I think they were comfortable with Eli and Gettleman was beyond enamoured with Barkley. 

Either way, if for some reason he didn't rate Darnold (lord knows why) , he should've traded down. 

 

 

 

The cap lock was on and I didn't notice it. I was going to erase it but figured no-one would make an issue of it. I think that's probably the first time in over 8900 posts that I made that mistake. 

 

Anyway , evidently the caps were an issue to you. Next time I will just delete and re-write in small , like my previous 8927 posts .

 

As to trading down , that's what Ballard did and I saw the "math" on first round trades . The Colts according to what I read indeed made a heist. I don't think you can ever make a mistake trading down when teams were offering that much. But if you feel your guy is there , I guess teams will just stay there ? Have you seen Barkley much ? He is a tremendous back . Has Barry Sanders speed and vision only way bigger. Not saying the Giant made the right decision but I'm not as sure as you that they blundered. Awful early yet.

[a06cc]

Heard rumors we’re on the phones looking for a trade.  News may come tomorrow.

[Trueman]

1 minute ago, dw49 said:

As to trading down , that's what Ballard did and I saw the "math" on first round trades . The Colts according to what I read indeed made a heist. I don't think you can ever make a mistake trading down when teams were offering that much. But if you feel your guy is there , I guess teams will just stay there ? Have you seen Barkley much ? He is a tremendous back . Has Barry Sanders speed and vision only way bigger. Not saying the Giant made the right decision but I'm not as sure as you that they blundered. Awful early yet.

Ballard's trade down was fantastic. Especially at the time he completed the trade. It gave him much more time to prepare than most trade-backs give GM's. 

If you're referring to the value chart , Ballard did really well, yes. 

I have seen Barkley , and he looks incredible. He almost always makes the first guy miss and he's a complete back , which I value highly. Solid in pass pro , and a really good receiver too.

But it doesn't matter. Even a "good" QB is more valuable than an elite back. It's just the way the game has evolved.

And if it's a case of choosing between an elite QB prospect (which I feel Darnold is) and an elite back prospect , I'm taking the QB 100 times outta 100, if I need a QB (which the Giants did). Barkley could end up being the best back in the league , but if Darnold even becomes a top 12 QB , he's much more valuable. 

It's just the way it is.

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

25 minutes ago, Trueman said:

You're missing the point. You keep talking about today and I'm saying Darnold is the piece you build your franchise around for 15 years. It's almost imperative that you have a top-flight QB nowadays , and having one is a huge advantage. 

If you think Lauletta is a player , then power to you , but Darnold is starting and showing a ton of promise right now. The chances Lauletta becomes anything close to a Carson Wentz (or Darnold) are beyond small.

For me, if you're a team that needs a QB and you pass on a franchise QB in the draft , there's almost nothing that could convince me it was the right call. Nothing.

It's a Cardinal sin. 

 

 

You are entitled to your opinion, and might even prove to be right (no guarantee though).  But Dorsey passed on Darnold (#1) for Mayfield.  Gettleman passed on Darnold.  Their football resources, knowledge, and scouting reports are vastly superior to fans and most all media.  There is also no guarantee for any of these 4 draft QB's from last year. 

 

Let's revisit this and see who the premier NY area football team is in 3 years.

[Trueman]

1 minute ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

You are entitled to your opinion, and might even prove to be right (no guarantee though).  But Dorsey passed on Darnold (#1) for Mayfield.  Gettleman passed on Darnold.  Their football resources, knowledge, and scouting reports are vastly superior to fans and most all media.  There is also no guarantee for any of these 4 draft QB's from last year. 

 

Let's revisit this and see who the premier NY area football team is in 3 years.

Sure, but the Browns passed on Darnold for a QB. I didn't agree with Baker over Darnold , but at least they took a QB. 

That's far more understandable in my books. 

As for the GM's having much more insight/information than fans , that's true - of course. But there's tons of GM's that would've done things differently. Most scouts within the game had Darnold ranked higher. Some GM's are flat-out bad , and some make mistakes that the fans can see right away. 

Dorsett over Landon Collins seemed like a mistake as soon as it happened. And whattaya know...

Dorsey didn't do what the rest of the league thought he would , and power to him. Baker was his guy , and he took him. 

In the end , time will give us all the answers , on that we can agree. 

[dw49]

14 minutes ago, Trueman said:

Ballard's trade down was fantastic. Especially at the time he completed the trade. It gave him much more time to prepare than most trade-backs give GM's. 

If you're referring to the value chart , Ballard did really well, yes. 

I have seen Barkley , and he looks incredible. He almost always makes the first guy miss and he's a complete back , which I value highly. Solid in pass pro , and a really good receiver too.

But it doesn't matter. Even a "good" QB is more valuable than an elite back. It's just the way the game has evolved.

And if it's a case of choosing between an elite QB prospect (which I feel Darnold is) and an elite back prospect , I'm taking the QB 100 times outta 100, if I need a QB (which the Giants did). Barkley could end up being the best back in the league , but if Darnold even becomes a top 12 QB , he's much more valuable. 

It's just the way it is.

 

 

I think they used the traditional Johnson chart and the newer Stuart chart when they evaluated the trades. The Colts by far gained the most draft capital according to the source , which by the way I have no idea where I read it at this point in time. 

 

As to Franchise QB or Franchise RB , there is no doubt you go QB if you don't have one... and the Giants didn't . It's just the question of what they thought go the 3 after Mayfield. The general thinking that at least I've come across is they were not enamored with Darnold , Rosen or Allen. I don't think it's written in stone that you are better off with a 12th rated QB than a HOF RB. We don't know how Barkly's or Darold's career will end up , so impossible to say what is what. You feeling that a QB that's just good is far more valuable than a great RB could be right . I find it difficult to assign those kinds of values .

[jvan1973]

4 hours ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

Barkley's one of the best RBs in the league and probably the best player on the G-men right now... that team has a lot of holes across the board.. sure, they need line help, etc.. but Barkley is a once in a generation player and he looks very good so far.

Why is a once in a generation rb drafted almost every year?

[Tombstone]

4 hours ago, Trueman said:

And yet , they suck. A generational RB is nice , but if you don't have more important positions covered , it means nothing. 

They passed up on a franchise QB for a franchise RB. That makes no sense - at all. 

Now they're probably banking on Herbert declaring , and if he doesn't , they'll still have no long term answer. Next year's draft QB class is nowhere's near as good as 2018's. 

And , if they do get Herbert , it's still Darnold>Herbert , imo... and I don't think it's particularly close. 
 

With that offensive line I would have taken a franchise running back than a franchise QB.  Makes a lot of sense.  I can just picture it now a young QB running for his life trying to make something happen and on crutches right about now. I believed the Colts offensive line from last year is better than this year offensive line of the Gaints.....  And with protection Eli is not a washed up QB.  He is not what he once was so they are buying time with him until they find a QB to replace him. 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

You are entitled to your opinion, and might even prove to be right (no guarantee though).  But Dorsey passed on Darnold (#1) for Mayfield.  Gettleman passed on Darnold.  Their football resources, knowledge, and scouting reports are vastly superior to fans and most all media.  There is also no guarantee for any of these 4 draft QB's from last year. 

 

Let's revisit this and see who the premier NY area football team is in 3 years.

 

I agree with the first part, but I'm not sure I'm excited about either Dorsey or Gettleman and their QB evaluations. 

 

I think the Giants want to emulate the Rams approach, but we're a long way from knowing whether it will work for them. 

[Smoke317]

5 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

Like Peyton Manning. He made a lot of other people household names not to mention hall of famers

Who are the people that Peyton Manning made into Hall of Famers?  

[jvan1973]

25 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Who are the people that Peyton Manning made into Hall of Famers?  

Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne 

[Smoke317]

17 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne 

Nonsense. So can it also be said that they made Peyton into a Hall of Famer?  I hate when Colts fans try to diminish others just to credit Peyton.  Marvin Harrison put up good numbers when Peyton was a turnover machine early in his career...  In fact it was Marv’s greatness that allowed a young Peyton to get acclimated to the speed of the NFL and put up respectable numbers along with those interceptions.  It was Marv’s greatness that Peyton leaned on to become great.  It was Marv’s greatness that Peyton had the sense to recognize (to bad his Indy fans don’t) and put in the extra, extra time with Marv on perfecting his craft.  

 

And Reggie proved his worth by putting up pro bowl numbers with a rookie in Luck.  But y’all want to act like Peyton “made” them.  That’s total crap.  They complimented each other.  But since Peyton gets the credit for making them HoF’ers, I guess he also gets the credit for us choking away the majority of our playoff appearances during his years here huh?  Can’t have it both ways.  If he gets all the credit, then he deserves all the blame.  I prefer to give all 3 their own just deserved credit.

[richard pallo]

2 hours ago, a06cc said:

Heard rumors we’re on the phones looking for a trade.  News may come tomorrow.

Ballard said in an article today on Colts.com regarding trades and the trade deadline that " We always have lines in the water".  We are always trying to make our team better.  We might have a want but the other team has to agree on the compensation.  Regarding Tuesday's deadline.  " We shall see". 

[Smoke317]

2 hours ago, a06cc said:

Heard rumors we’re on the phones looking for a trade.  News may come tomorrow.

Could we go after a guy like Raiders’ DE Bruce Irvin?  All of his guaranteed money has been paid by Oakland and I believe his salary next year can be dropped without any cap penalty or we can keep him for 9M?  If not him, what position do you think we have interest in?  Receiver?  Cornerback?

[Trueman]

28 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Nonsense. So can it also be said that they made Peyton into a Hall of Famer?  I hate when Colts fans try to diminish others just to credit Peyton.  Marvin Harrison put up good numbers when Peyton was a turnover machine early in his career...  In fact it was Marv’s greatness that allowed a young Peyton to get acclimated to the speed of the NFL and put up respectable numbers along with those interceptions.  It was Marv’s greatness that Peyton leaned on to become great.  It was Marv’s greatness that Peyton had the sense to recognize (to bad his Indy fans don’t) and put in the extra, extra time with Marv on perfecting his craft.  

 

And Reggie proved his worth by putting up pro bowl numbers with a rookie in Luck.  But y’all want to act like Peyton “made” them.  That’s total crap.  They complimented each other.  But since Peyton gets the credit for making them HoF’ers, I guess he also gets the credit for us choking away the majority of our playoff appearances during his years here huh?  Can’t have it both ways.  If he gets all the credit, then he deserves all the blame.  I prefer to give all 3 their own just deserved credit.

Although Reggie is my favourite , Marvin is in a separate category , imo.
 

[Trueman]

8 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Could we go after a guy like Raiders’ DE Bruce Irvin?  All of his guaranteed money has been paid by Oakland and I believe his salary next year can be dropped without any cap penalty or we can keep him for 9M?  If not him, what position do you think we have interest in?  Receiver?  Cornerback?

Bruce Irvin is a hard no.

I think Ballard would look at any position , really. It just has to be a young guy on a good contract for a fair price. 

 

[Smoke317]

2 minutes ago, Trueman said:

Although Reggie is my favourite , Marvin is in a separate category , imo.
 

Yeah. Marv was a terror out there.  Peyton was no fool. He knew he had something special in 88. 

[jvan1973]

34 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Nonsense. So can it also be said that they made Peyton into a Hall of Famer?  I hate when Colts fans try to diminish others just to credit Peyton.  Marvin Harrison put up good numbers when Peyton was a turnover machine early in his career...  In fact it was Marv’s greatness that allowed a young Peyton to get acclimated to the speed of the NFL and put up respectable numbers along with those interceptions.  It was Marv’s greatness that Peyton leaned on to become great.  It was Marv’s greatness that Peyton had the sense to recognize (to bad his Indy fans don’t) and put in the extra, extra time with Marv on perfecting his craft.  

 

And Reggie proved his worth by putting up pro bowl numbers with a rookie in Luck.  But y’all want to act like Peyton “made” them.  That’s total crap.  They complimented each other.  But since Peyton gets the credit for making them HoF’ers, I guess he also gets the credit for us choking away the majority of our playoff appearances during his years here huh?  Can’t have it both ways.  If he gets all the credit, then he deserves all the blame.  I prefer to give all 3 their own just deserved credit.

Peyton would have been a hall of famer without them.   I can't guarantee they would be hall of famers without him

[Yoshinator]

14 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Could we go after a guy like Raiders’ DE Bruce Irvin?  All of his guaranteed money has been paid by Oakland and I believe his salary next year can be dropped without any cap penalty or we can keep him for 9M?  If not him, what position do you think we have interest in?  Receiver?  Cornerback?

Absolutely no on Bruce Irvin. My girl friend who is a Raiders fan complains about him all the time. She says he gives no effort, takes off plays, and also has a big mouth for doing absolutely nothing on the field. He is a waste of salary and would RUIN our locker room and culture.

[braveheartcolt]

4 hours ago, Trueman said:

He's not "meh". This is absurd.

Do me a favour and remember you said this. 

What I've seen of Darnold, I don't think he's as good as a 'meh'. Another Sanchez. He'll be a backup in 3 years or so. But I'm no expert, just an armchair critic.

[krunk]

Giants are in line to take a QB high this year if there is a worthy candidate. They will probably have the first pick.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

8 hours ago, Trueman said:

And yet , they suck. A generational RB is nice , but if you don't have more important positions covered , it means nothing. 

They passed up on a franchise QB for a franchise RB. That makes no sense - at all. 

Now they're probably banking on Herbert declaring , and if he doesn't , they'll still have no long term answer. Next year's draft QB class is nowhere's near as good as 2018's. 

And , if they do get Herbert , it's still Darnold>Herbert , imo... and I don't think it's particularly close. 
 

 

Barkley is an absolute stud.  Darnold may be a franchise QB, but I get the sense the Giants' brass didn't think he'd pan out and it seems like they were very high on Lauletta.... they also had Davis Webb on their roster (a 2017 3rd round pick) that they may have been high on even though he didn't pan out (don't forget, he was brought in under an old coaching regime).

 

Probably a reason why there are people who make 100's of thousands of dollars who get to make decisions for NFL teams and why other people like you and I post on message boards.... 

 

Barkley, behind a cruddy OL, is 2nd in the NFL in all-purpose yards, only behind Todd Gurley.... imagine what he'll do when they give him a line to run behind.

[Luck 4 president]

I’d argue they would still have a record close to 1-7 had they picked Darnold instead of Saquon. But at this point nobody knows how their careers play out and who should’ve been taken where. Maybe they worked out Darnold and didn’t like his decision making/turnovers, and they thought Barkley was special. All I know is when/if they do get a real QB, he’s gonna enjoy their weapons. 

[shakedownstreet]

5 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne 

 

Bill Polian

[luv_pony_express]

14 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I was replying to what they've done to protect the QB. They could have done something different at #2 this year, but they've already taken significant steps to improve protection. Some would argue taking Barkley was meant to take pressure off the QB; I don't subscribe to that line of reasoning, but we saw a lot of that here before the draft about the Colts taking Barkley. 

 

Yeah, but we’re not in the same situation as the Giants.  Eli’s clearly close to being done.  The Giants had a golden opportunity to get a franchise QB and passed on it.

 

Barkley’s a phenomenal RB and it’s not hard to see why a team would want him badly.  But, in today’s NFL, if you don’t have a top flight QB, you probably aren’t going to win.

 

Of course, maybe the Giants just didn’t like any of the QBs in the 2018 draft and were looking ahead to next year knowing they were probably going to have a high pick.

[Fluke_33]

7 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Could we go after a guy like Raiders’ DE Bruce Irvin?  All of his guaranteed money has been paid by Oakland and I believe his salary next year can be dropped without any cap penalty or we can keep him for 9M?  If not him, what position do you think we have interest in?  Receiver?  Cornerback?

Pass rusher is definitely the biggest need.   Irvin is an Interesting suggestion.  Out of college he had that character but maybe he’s outgrown those issues.  

2 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

 

Bill Polian

Polian was a lock for the hof before he came to Indy. 

[lollygagger8]

14 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

Ballard & Reich wouldn't look so brilliant right now had Luck not made the 100% comeback

 

If he hadn't we'd be in the same boat as the Giants

 

I don't know......I'd take Brissett over Eli righ now 

[Pacergeek]

Giants are almost as dysfunctional as the Browns. After ODB was found using cocaine with call girl, they give him huge pay raise. Sends terrible message to other players on roster. 

[chad72]

16 hours ago, shakedownstreet said:

Ballard & Reich wouldn't look so brilliant right now had Luck not made the 100% comeback

 

If he hadn't we'd be in the same boat as the Giants

 

The entire premise of the rebuild was based on that assumption. One thing you have to give them credit for is not rushing Luck and letting the rehab happen at the right pace, IMO. Ballard is a quick learner, didn't repeat the same mistake a second time of managing fan expectations by keeping them low enough knowing that there will be rust.

 

For the first 3 games, Luck was rusty, no doubt and then at half time vs the Texans, he flipped a switch. As Luck goes, the team goes, pretty much can be said for every team with a very good or elite QB in this league. 

[chad72]

9 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

What I've seen of Darnold, I don't think he's as good as a 'meh'. Another Sanchez. He'll be a backup in 3 years or so. But I'm no expert, just an armchair critic.

 

Peyton did throw 28 INTs his first year, so if he makes more plays than he gives away, there is still hope.  

[shakedownstreet]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

The entire premise of the rebuild was based on that assumption. One thing you have to give them credit for is not rushing Luck and letting the rehab happen at the right pace, IMO. Ballard is a quick learner, didn't repeat the same mistake a second time of managing fan expectations by keeping them low enough knowing that there will be rust.

 

For the first 3 games, Luck was rusty, no doubt and then at half time vs the Texans, he flipped a switch. As Luck goes, the team goes, pretty much can be said for every team with a very good or elite QB in this league. 

 

Absolutely and I was completely willing to put my faith in that plan. It's valuable enough to gamble on

 

 

[shakedownstreet]

12 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Peyton would have been a hall of famer without them.   I can't guarantee they would be hall of famers without him

 

The bottom line is anybody who does great things owes thanks to a lot of people along the way, some more than others

 

It doesn't diminish what they did. And the notion that is does is based in insecurity. I think those hall of famers would mostly agree

[shakedownstreet]

Just like Colts fans who didn't want Manning to win a superbowl with the Broncos. That's based purely on selfish insecurity

[Barry Sears]

I could have sworn this topic was about Mike Francesa praising Reich and Ballard?

[Trueman]

@ColtsBlueFL

Looks like your boy Lauletta just got arrested. 

Not starting his path to being the next Carson Wentz too well.

[Superman]

8 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

Yeah, but we’re not in the same situation as the Giants.  Eli’s clearly close to being done.  The Giants had a golden opportunity to get a franchise QB and passed on it.

 

Barkley’s a phenomenal RB and it’s not hard to see why a team would want him badly.  But, in today’s NFL, if you don’t have a top flight QB, you probably aren’t going to win.

 

Of course, maybe the Giants just didn’t like any of the QBs in the 2018 draft and were looking ahead to next year knowing they were probably going to have a high pick.

 

Wasn't Francesa saying that the Giants haven't done as much as the Colts have to protect their QB? I'm just saying the Giants have in fact done just as much as the Colts, maybe more, to protect the QB.

[ColtsBlueFL]

24 minutes ago, Trueman said:

@ColtsBlueFL

Looks like your boy Lauletta just got arrested. 

Not starting his path to being the next Carson Wentz too well.

 

Yes, I hope he makes better decisions and throws better than drives.

 

”Sources in Weehawken with knowledge of the incident said the 23-year-old was trying to make a right turn from the wrong lane to get to Route 495 West, and was directed to keep going straight. Lauletta, driving a Jaguar, made the right turn and nearly ran over the officer directing traffic. He was stopped by another officer at the end of the on-ramp.”

 

 

 

[Trueman]

1 minute ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Yes, I hope he makes better decisions and throws better than drives.

 

”Sources in Weehawken with knowledge of the incident said the 23-year-old was trying to make a right turn from the wrong lane to get to Route 495 West, and was directed to keep going straight. Lauletta, driving a Jaguar, made the right turn and nearly ran over the officer directing traffic. He was stopped by another officer at the end of the on-ramp.”

 

 

 

 

This sound like someone you want to build your franchise around?