Rick Venturi on the OL yesterday.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

7 hours ago, #12. said:

The best players and coaches don't always make the best analysts/commentators.  Plenty of HOFers who are cringeworthy analysts.  

 

Venturi - great player or coach?  Maybe not, but he has his finger on the pulse of this team.  I would choose to listen to him discuss the Colts over practically anyone out there.

 

Louis Riddick - great player?  No.  Great in the front office?  Apparently not.  Again, he's better than most of the commentators on TV.

 

^^^this^^^

 

And not only he's a good listen BUT he tells it like it is. Good or Bad. And he explains his analysis in simplistic layman's terms where a novice or self aclaimed expert can grasp.

 

And he is far more knowledgeable about football then anyone here that I know of.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Peterk2011 said:

Honestly, do you know anyone in the media, who knows more (or if he knows, does tell it)? I'm curious, because I listen/read many guys, local and national, from Venturi to Lombardi, from NFL com to ESPN, stampede, coltswire, bleacherreport, ringer, whoever, whatever, etc, etc., but I hardly find any proper, in depth analyzis anywhere. Sometimes Chris Simms (Simms and Lefkoe podcast) talks a little bit about schemes, concepts, explains what he saw on films from this team or the other, but it's maybe 5% of the time. The remaining 95% is the same "Drew Brees is darn good, Blake Bortles is horrible" stuff. You have to dig really hard to find something you can learn from...

 

I haven't listened to Simms and Lefkoe since the season started. Them, the Matt Miller podcast, during draft season Move the Sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks (they usually have coaches, some players from the draft, etc.) There are probably others but it's true that the media is a giant echo chamber, usually.

 

However, Venturi is hard to listen to for different reasons. Part of it is his voice. Then he tends to repeat himself for no reason. Sometimes he tries to break things down simply, but winds up sounding nonsensical, IMO. 

 

And lately, he and JMV like to get stuck on the fact that Ballard didn't sign specific free agents like Carlos Hyde, Alfred Morris, Allen Robinson (seriously, $14m/year), etc. And it's always '... and I said this way back in the spring...' 

 

I'm just not that interested in what he's saying lately. I'll put up with it after a win because at least he actually watched the film and will talk about the team, but I wish there was someone better to listen to. 

[TheMarine]

1 hour ago, jskinnz said:

 

No I don't recall that.  I suppose it's possible - this is the internet where the clinically clueless have a platform.  But I have a hard time believing anyone said that with any level of seriousness. 

 

Twas stated a lot to come and "save the Colts" after Daniels backed out

[LJpalmbeacher2]

20 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I haven't listened to Simms and Lefkoe since the season started. Them, the Matt Miller podcast, during draft season Move the Sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks (they usually have coaches, some players from the draft, etc.) There are probably others but it's true that the media is a giant echo chamber, usually.

 

However, Venturi is hard to listen to for different reasons. Part of it is his voice. Then he tends to repeat himself for no reason. Sometimes he tries to break things down simply, but winds up sounding nonsensical, IMO. 

 

And lately, he and JMV like to get stuck on the fact that Ballard didn't sign specific free agents like Carlos Hyde, Alfred Morris, Allen Robinson (seriously, $14m/year), etc. And it's always '... and I said this way back in the spring...' 

 

I'm just not that interested in what he's saying lately. I'll put up with it after a win because at least he actually watched the film and will talk about the team, but I wish there was someone better to listen to. 

 

Maybe that's the problem with him with some here.... he critiques what he thinks management shoulda, coulda done differently to add talent and different coaching schemes. Many here don't like to hear anything that the colts should have done differently. Especially when it involves current regime.

 

It's no secret by anyone with any football I.Q. that are group of receivers behind TY were a very weak questionble unit AND going in with Grant & Rogers was a very risky thing to do.

 

10-15 million dollars a year contracts for Talented FA players is the norm these days in nfl. If teams don't want to pay the going rates then their rosters will be less talented than others and risk having W-L records like 1-6...2-5 etc...

[VaAllDay757]

He offers good advice for the team and it usually makes sense especially when chuck was head coach because the playcalling was horrible at one point....rarely seen a slant called for a 3rd and short and Venturi preached about using short routes for short yardage situations.....let him continue to do his thing

[Superman]

1 hour ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Maybe that's the problem with him with some here.... he critiques what he thinks management shoulda, coulda done differently to add talent and different coaching schemes. Many here don't like to hear anything that the colts should have done differently. Especially when it involves current regime.

 

It's no secret by anyone with any football I.Q. that are group of receivers behind TY were a very weak questionble unit AND going in with Grant & Rogers was a very risky thing to do.

 

10-15 million dollars a year contracts for Talented FA players is the norm these days in nfl. If teams don't want to pay the going rates then their rosters will be less talented than others and risk having W-L records like 1-6...2-5 etc...

 

Yeah, that's not it. I frequently talk about what I wish the Colts would have done differently. I stated the reasons I'm over him, and it's not that he's critical of the current regime.

 

Let's talk about the receivers. People tend to forget that the plan wasn't just to throw Hilton and a bunch of weak backups out on the field. 1) The fact that the Colts were stuck with a bunch of weak backups for a couple weeks while Hilton was out set everyone off again. 2) It's obvious that the staff expected Deon Cain to play a big role. They also signed Grant to be a solid option, which he hasn't quite lived up to so far. 3) They also intended to rely heavily on the TEs (Doyle's been hurt for over a month) and backs (Mack was hurt for a month) to catch passes. 

 

Furthermore, let's evaluate Venturi's alternative -- Allen Robinson. He has one season with over 1,000 receiving yards, which was a major outlier. Coming off an ACL in 2017, Robinson signed with the Bears for three years, $42m, with $28m effectively guaranteed. He's the 12th highest paid receiver in the league.

 

Through six games, he has 25 catches for 285 yards and two TDs and averages 11.4 yards/catch, which puts him on pace for under 800 yards and 5 TDs. He's tied for 67th in catches, he's 70th in yards, tied for 49th in TDs, and tied for 77th in yards/catch. 

 

Ryan Grant has played in six games, and had 26 catches, 270 yards, 1 TD, and averages 10.4 yards/catch.

 

Allen Hurns is the other one he keeps bringing up. Two years, $12m, and he has half the production of Grant.

 

I get that people wanted more at receiver. But let's offer something better than Allen Robinson for $14m. And that Venturi keeps beating that same drum, even though Robinson hasn't shown himself to be worth anywhere near what he got. He was not a legitimate option for the Colts, bottom line.

 

Edit: By the way, the Colts aren't 2-5 due to a lack of talent. They're 2-5 due to a lack of discipline, which is typical of a young team with a new coaching staff. 

[#12.]

7 hours ago, Superman said:

I'm not very impressed with Venturi. I listen online because he talks on depth about the Colts, and basically no one else does. But he's hard to listen to, and his stuff is so rudimentary. The longer I've listened, the more obvious it is that he repeats the same basic stuff over and over again. 

 

His idea of a passing game plan is to figure out who the best corner is, then don't throw at that guy. Put Hilton in the slot so he can't get jammed, and work him on the weak side of the formation. Etc. Basic stuff that doesn't really acknowledge how difficult it is to actually gameplan in the NFL, or execute that gameplan. 

On a local radio show?   What is usually spoken about on a local show?  

 

I'm not sure I've ever heard any analyst go into greater detail on a local radio show.  Not just speaking of Indy, that goes for anywhere.  JMV usually has to pull him back. You can't do too much of that on a drive at 5:00 type show.  

[LJpalmbeacher2]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, that's not it. I frequently talk about what I wish the Colts would have done differently. I stated the reasons I'm over him, and it's not that he's critical of the current regime.

 

Let's talk about the receivers. People tend to forget that the plan wasn't just to throw Hilton and a bunch of weak backups out on the field. 1) The fact that the Colts were stuck with a bunch of weak backups for a couple weeks while Hilton was out set everyone off again. 2) It's obvious that the staff expected Deon Cain to play a big role. They also signed Grant to be a solid option, which he hasn't quite lived up to so far. 3) They also intended to rely heavily on the TEs (Doyle's been hurt for over a month) and backs (Mack was hurt for a month) to catch passes. 

 

Furthermore, let's evaluate Venturi's alternative -- Allen Robinson. He has one season with over 1,000 receiving yards, which was a major outlier. Coming off an ACL in 2017, Robinson signed with the Bears for three years, $42m, with $28m effectively guaranteed. He's the 12th highest paid receiver in the league.

 

Through six games, he has 25 catches for 285 yards and two TDs and averages 11.4 yards/catch, which puts him on pace for under 800 yards and 5 TDs. He's tied for 67th in catches, he's 70th in yards, tied for 49th in TDs, and tied for 77th in yards/catch. 

 

Ryan Grant has played in six games, and had 26 catches, 270 yards, 1 TD, and averages 10.4 yards/catch.

 

Allen Hurns is the other one he keeps bringing up. Two years, $12m, and he has half the production of Grant.

 

I get that people wanted more at receiver. But let's offer something better than Allen Robinson for $14m. And that Venturi keeps beating that same drum, even though Robinson hasn't shown himself to be worth anywhere near what he got. He was not a legitimate option for the Colts, bottom line.

 

Edit: By the way, the Colts aren't 2-5 due to a lack of talent. They're 2-5 due to a lack of discipline, which is typical of a young team with a new coaching staff. 

 

There were a handful of FA options at WR. They all were pricey like all other early signings. Thats the rate teams are paying these days.

 

Robinson has Tribisky throwing to him. I haven't watched him or paid attention to his numbers BUT I THINK his production would be better with Luck than with Tribisky.

 

The signing of Grant shouldn't have gotten any colt fans excited. He's smallish and not fast. No way he coulda been a legitimate #2. On a passing team I wouldn't want him any higher than a #4 wr.

 

Cain is a 6th round rookie. To rely on

getting major production from a 6th round rookie wr is very, very foolish.

 

It's a pass friendly league. And resources need to be spent on weapons (Draft & FA) to outscore the opponents.

[stitches]

6 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

Honestly, do you know anyone in the media, who knows more (or if he knows, does tell it)? I'm curious, because I listen/read many guys, local and national, from Venturi to Lombardi, from NFL com to ESPN, stampede, coltswire, bleacherreport, ringer, whoever, whatever, etc, etc., but I hardly find any proper, in depth analyzis anywhere. Sometimes Chris Simms (Simms and Lefkoe podcast) talks a little bit about schemes, concepts, explains what he saw on films from this team or the other, but it's maybe 5% of the time. The remaining 95% is the same "Drew Brees is darn good, Blake Bortles is horrible" stuff. You have to dig really hard to find something you can learn from...

There is a ton of boxscore scouting and commentating in NFL media and very few put in the work of actually watching the tape and even fewer of them know what they are looking at when they watch and even fewer of them know how to draw the appropriate conclusions of what they see. 

 

Greg Cosell is by far my favorite... like... noone else really comes close. That's why I make sure to follow his twitter feed and listen to any podcast/radio slot he does even if it's not Colts related. The Eagles have some smart young commentators/analysts (Kist, Solak, Duffy), but they are too Eagles centric(still worth following)... I wish we had this type of quality on our local Colts analysis front. Similar with Dane Brugler, who is on the Cowboys side but very valuable resource come draft time. 

 

I've disagreed in some cases with Andy Benoit about the decisions Colts were making and with the way he thinks the game, but he can point out some interesting things too, and largely does do the work in order to be able to intelligently talk about teams and players.  

 

 

[LockeDown]

People talking about what should have been done is far less interesting to me, than what can be done and what we can do going forward.  You can’t change the past but there is hope for the future.  Hence, once we chose Nelson, I don’t want to discuss if we had picked Chubb.  It’s done. Over. Let’s talk about Nelson going forward   However, I understand some people enjoy that part.  To each their own I guess.

[krunk]

I see the Falcons took Rees Oghdiambo off our practice squad

[coltsva]

3 hours ago, krunk said:

I see the Falcons took Rees Oghdiambo off our practice squad

This would mean something to me if someone would have first posted 

“I see Rees Oghdiambo is on our practice squad.”

[Peterk2011]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

Let's talk about the receivers. People tend to forget that the plan wasn't just to throw Hilton and a bunch of weak backups out on the field. 1) The fact that the Colts were stuck with a bunch of weak backups for a couple weeks while Hilton was out set everyone off again. 2) It's obvious that the staff expected Deon Cain to play a big role. They also signed Grant to be a solid option, which he hasn't quite lived up to so far. 3) They also intended to rely heavily on the TEs (Doyle's been hurt for over a month) and backs (Mack was hurt for a month) to catch passes.  

 

Let me add, that the Colts couldn't realistically expect to be serious playoff contenders. Not that they shouldn't try to be, but whether it's business or sports, you have to be aware where you are at and what's the optimal decisions for long term success. So was there a better time to throw out some young guys and see if they can find a late round / UDFA gem somewhere? These late rounders / UDFA-s are UDFA-s for a reason, they all have something why they weren't drafted. And many times you can't find out if it's fixable other than than put them on the field and let them play. Adam Thielen wasn't an all pro in his rookie year. In fact, he wasn't even a 600-800 yards guy, he was a 150 yards depth guy for 2 years. The Vikings kept him, they put him on the field. He dropped some passes early, he didn't look special at all. But then, because he's been given the chance to clear his game and learn what he needed to, he become the guy he is now. Many-many of these depth guys never make the NFL, because their respective teams does not have the patience (or the luxury to be patient) to let them develop.

 

If only one of the Rogerses, Pascals, etc. will become - not a Thielen, but a trushtworthy #2, #3 -, I say it worths letting them play, and save some millions by not signing a veteran, even if that veteran might've catched some of those balls that these youngsters dropped and the Colts would've won a game or two more this year.

[MacDee1975]

7 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

There were a handful of FA options at WR. They all were pricey like all other early signings. Thats the rate teams are paying these days.

 

Robinson has Tribisky throwing to him. I haven't watched him or paid attention to his numbers BUT I THINK his production would be better with Luck than with Tribisky.

 

The signing of Grant shouldn't have gotten any colt fans excited. He's smallish and not fast. No way he coulda been a legitimate #2. On a passing team I wouldn't want him any higher than a #4 wr.

 

Cain is a 6th round rookie. To rely on

getting major production from a 6th round rookie wr is very, very foolish.

 

It's a pass friendly league. And resources need to be spent on weapons (Draft & FA) to outscore the opponents.

 

Excellent response.

[shakedownstreet]

I enjoy listening to Venturi, but Superman put in words what I subconsciencely already knew

 

Anybody analyzing football in the media is bound to have very real limits. Some of them are downright awful

[krunk]

2 hours ago, coltsva said:

This would mean something to me if someone would have first posted 

“I see Rees Oghdiambo is on our practice squad.”

They did.  Seems like you didnt see it.

[aaron11]

2 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

Let me add, that the Colts couldn't realistically expect to be serious playoff contenders.

maybe not Superbowl contenders, but the division could have been winnable with a little better team and less injuries

[#12.]

Venturi was an NFL coach for 25 years.  He was an assistant head coach as little as a decade ago.  He was good enough to be Belichick's defensive coordinator.  Is he a HOF coach, no, but what is more ridiculous - Venturi criticizing Ballard for not having more foresight when it comes to the WR position or the armchair internet buying and believing that an individual with that resume knows nothing about football?

[Rackeen305]

15 hours ago, NewEra said:

Just how Ballard envisioned it. So glad we got him as out GM.

I think CB envisioned Kemoko Turay as the Colts version of Justin Houston of KC. I know KT is a little taller and so called different position. But as far as rushing the passer, he is very similar to Justin Houston.

 

Thus far KT has 3 Sacks early in his rookie year. 

[ztboiler]

12 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, that's not it. I frequently talk about what I wish the Colts would have done differently. I stated the reasons I'm over him, and it's not that he's critical of the current regime.

 

Let's talk about the receivers. People tend to forget that the plan wasn't just to throw Hilton and a bunch of weak backups out on the field. 1) The fact that the Colts were stuck with a bunch of weak backups for a couple weeks while Hilton was out set everyone off again. 2) It's obvious that the staff expected Deon Cain to play a big role. They also signed Grant to be a solid option, which he hasn't quite lived up to so far. 3) They also intended to rely heavily on the TEs (Doyle's been hurt for over a month) and backs (Mack was hurt for a month) to catch passes. 

 

Furthermore, let's evaluate Venturi's alternative -- Allen Robinson. He has one season with over 1,000 receiving yards, which was a major outlier. Coming off an ACL in 2017, Robinson signed with the Bears for three years, $42m, with $28m effectively guaranteed. He's the 12th highest paid receiver in the league.

 

Through six games, he has 25 catches for 285 yards and two TDs and averages 11.4 yards/catch, which puts him on pace for under 800 yards and 5 TDs. He's tied for 67th in catches, he's 70th in yards, tied for 49th in TDs, and tied for 77th in yards/catch. 

 

Ryan Grant has played in six games, and had 26 catches, 270 yards, 1 TD, and averages 10.4 yards/catch.

 

Allen Hurns is the other one he keeps bringing up. Two years, $12m, and he has half the production of Grant.

 

I get that people wanted more at receiver. But let's offer something better than Allen Robinson for $14m. And that Venturi keeps beating that same drum, even though Robinson hasn't shown himself to be worth anywhere near what he got. He was not a legitimate option for the Colts, bottom line.

 

Edit: By the way, the Colts aren't 2-5 due to a lack of talent. They're 2-5 due to a lack of discipline, which is typical of a young team with a new coaching staff. 

I don’t think you’re giving Venturi quite enough credit.  He is dogmatic and needs to tone down the know it all thing...but he’s offering a very unique voice to the general public that rarely gets to hear unfiltered commentary from a career NFL coach 

[Superman]

3 hours ago, ztboiler said:

I don’t think you’re giving Venturi quite enough credit.  He is dogmatic and needs to tone down the know it all thing...but he’s offering a very unique voice to the general public that rarely gets to hear unfiltered commentary from a career NFL coach 

 

I thought I gave him credit for what you're mentioning. That's why I listen to him. But I've been listening for about three years now, and it seems like there's nothing new, not a lot of actual insight, more bloviating thsn anything else. And "dogmatic" is exactly how I'd describe his commentary.

[Superman]

4 hours ago, #12. said:

Venturi was an NFL coach for 25 years.  He was an assistant head coach as little as a decade ago.  He was good enough to be Belichick's defensive coordinator.  Is he a HOF coach, no, but what is more ridiculous - Venturi criticizing Ballard for not having more foresight when it comes to the WR position or the armchair internet buying and believing that an individual with that resume knows nothing about football?

 

Who said he knows nothing about football?

 

By the way, the one year Belichick was the Browns DC, they were one of the worst defenses in the league. 

[Superman]

16 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

There were a handful of FA options at WR. They all were pricey like all other early signings. Thats the rate teams are paying these days.

 

Robinson has Tribisky throwing to him. I haven't watched him or paid attention to his numbers BUT I THINK his production would be better with Luck than with Tribisky.

 

The signing of Grant shouldn't have gotten any colt fans excited. He's smallish and not fast. No way he coulda been a legitimate #2. On a passing team I wouldn't want him any higher than a #4 wr.

 

Cain is a 6th round rookie. To rely on

getting major production from a 6th round rookie wr is very, very foolish.

 

It's a pass friendly league. And resources need to be spent on weapons (Draft & FA) to outscore the opponents.

 

The Robinson signing looked bad at the time, and looks bad now. There's really little basis to believe that he would have been significantly more productive with the Colts. He has a flash in the pan past, and he missed all of last season with an ACL. 

 

You say it's foolish to rely on Cain, and I say it's foolish to pay Allen Robinson $14m/year when he was six months off of a tore ACL. And here he is, having a below average season on a team that's putting up 28 points a game.

 

Going back to Cain, let's not act like only high draft picks can perform as rookies. We have plenty of evidence to the contrary. And if not for an unforseeable injury, Cain would probably be WR2 right now. 

 

Grant was signed to be a part of the stable, and he's been as productive as Allen Robinson who was signed to be the #1. It's strange to see someone rip the Grant signing at $5m while defending the Robinson signing for three times as much. I did want a veteran receiver, and I wasn't interested in or excited about Grant, still am not. But signing Robinson wouldn't have been a prudent move. 

[RockThatBlue]

On 10/23/2018 at 7:46 AM, Ratking said:

According to Wikipedia Rick's record is:

1–31–1 (College)
2–17 (NFL) 

 

Not sure how sharp of an eye he really has for football. 

Hes really good as an analyst. I think everyone knows he was not a good coach. But that doesn't mean hes not knowledgeable about football. 

[coltsva]

21 hours ago, krunk said:

They did.  Seems like you didnt see it.

You are correct, I did not see it.  But thanks to updates like yours, if I miss them walking in the door, at least I see them walking out the door. 

[Myles]

11 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Hes really good as an analyst. I think everyone knows he was not a good coach. But that doesn't mean hes not knowledgeable about football. 

That's true, but it sure takes away from his opinion being spot on.

3-48-1 is his coaching career record.   

[coltsva]

11 minutes ago, Myles said:

That's true, but it sure takes away from his opinion being spot on.

3-48-1 is his coaching career record.   

For me, his coaching record has no bearing on his credibility as an analyst, although I can understand how for some it does.

 

For whatever reason or multitude of reasons, his knowledge didn’t translate to wins. 

 

Despite his amazingly poor win %, Venturi had a long coaching career. Apparently he was either well liked as a person, well respected as a coach, or could knock it out of the park when being interviewed for a job, or all of the above. 

 

 

 

[Myles]

On 10/23/2018 at 6:37 AM, coltsfeva said:

  For the most part, I enjoy his breakdowns. The only thing I don’t care for is; “I said this weeks ago”. I guess he’s giving credibility to his knowledge but I never liked that self-promotion. At times, JMV will say the same thing.

I'm with you.   They like to pat themselves on the back, but will not often bring up when they were wrong.   Cowturd is pretty bad at that too.

 

[hoosierhawk]

Know Rick personally. Great guy. I think it is very refreshing to listen to a perspective of a former coach who, regardless of wins or losses, has been in the league a long time and coached and rubbed shoulders with some of the best. I don't think one is required to agree 100% with the guy on everything he says but I for one thoroughly enjoy this perspective vs trying to listen to someone like a Dakich (won't listen ever again) who doesn't know crap. I think he does a good job of summarizing a game ( just another perspective) even though you may not agree with some of his opinions.

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 10/23/2018 at 8:05 PM, Peterk2011 said:

Honestly, do you know anyone in the media, who knows more (or if he knows, does tell it)?

 

Pat Kirwan?

Charlie Weiss?

Gil Brandt?

Phil Savage?

Mark Dominik?

Bill Polian?

 

{all of these are frequently on NFL Radio, SiriusXM channell 88}

 

 

As for media/football people:

 

I also like Greg Cossell

 

Aslo John Clayton

 

Yes, and even Albert Breer.