Biggest surprise of roster cuts

[coltsfan_canada]

In ballard we trust but Simon 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

8 hours ago, Boiler_Colt said:

Simon for sure. You cant preach competition and culture and then cut the hardest working and most productive guy. The locker room will see through your gospel eventually.

 

Agreed. I assume the media will ask Ballard, and hopefully we will get a straight answer on this move. I’m pretty sure he will say it was down to scheme fit, but it must have been a difficult cut.

[NorthernBlue]

The Colts might be good this year. They might not be. It's wait and see but I honestly could see them going anywhere between last and first in the division. But at the end of the day, we're not a super bowl contender. We'll hopefully be a SB contender by 2020 right? That's reasonable. And if that's the case, John Simon wouldn't be part of the plans for the team all the way there. So if they keep him now, they'd HAVE to play him, and if so, that takes valuable development and playing time away from the younger guys on the Dline, who you hope can develop, as they are likely the ones who will be core members of this team in 2020. 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

6 minutes ago, NorthernBlue said:

The Colts might be good this year. They might not be. It's wait and see but I honestly could see them going anywhere between last and first in the division. But at the end of the day, we're not a super bowl contender. We'll hopefully be a SB contender by 2020 right? That's reasonable. And if that's the case, John Simon wouldn't be part of the plans for the team all the way there. So if they keep him now, they'd HAVE to play him, and if so, that takes valuable development and playing time away from the younger guys on the Dline, who you hope can develop, as they are likely the ones who will be core members of this team in 2020. 

 

Good point, thanks NB. 

[richard pallo]

5 hours ago, NorthernBlue said:

The Colts might be good this year. They might not be. It's wait and see but I honestly could see them going anywhere between last and first in the division. But at the end of the day, we're not a super bowl contender. We'll hopefully be a SB contender by 2020 right? That's reasonable. And if that's the case, John Simon wouldn't be part of the plans for the team all the way there. So if they keep him now, they'd HAVE to play him, and if so, that takes valuable development and playing time away from the younger guys on the Dline, who you hope can develop, as they are likely the ones who will be core members of this team in 2020. 

So true so we might as well start Smith and accelerate his development.  Listening to Reich it sounded like He and Slauson were pretty much neck and neck anyway. 

[w87r]

Here were my thoughts on Simon, posted in different thread.

 

Combination of a few things:

1. Scheme - he showed alright, but we kept him on roster in hopes of him giving them some trade value. Didn't work. 

2. Youth reps - we need to see what we have in our guys. A year setting behind a Simon delays their growth.

3. Injury - This ties in with 1, as if he didn't reinjure his neck, we probably would of been able to trade him. Also scares you on long term outlook.

4. Educate - have a vet that can teach these young guys how to work during the off-season-preseason.

5. Money - probably the least of the reasons, since we have plenty, but with the other 4 factors it plays in.

[w87r]

5 hours ago, NorthernBlue said:

So if they keep him now, they'd HAVE to play him, and if so, that takes valuable development and playing time away from the younger guys on the Dline,

To this point, its so true.

 

Going to bring up Madden as an example.

 

I bought it for my kids, but have went through a couple seasons. It was impossible for me to get Turay and Bashem on the field.

 

John Simon kept giving me 10+ sack seasons. Lol.

 

I really did want to get the young guys in there.

 

Anxious to now start a new chise with final rosters. 

[throwing BBZ]

13 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Hunt I have no idea how he was kept he didn't do jack all TC.

 

It would seem your opinion is out of touch.

[King Colt]

10 hours ago, HOZER said:

Simon for sure, totally bummed about that one.

My only guess was concern for his neck injury history but then I read it not the issue. I don't get it. I hope they know what they are doing.

[jameszeigler834]

12 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

It would seem your opinion is out of touch.

I didn't see him do anything and he stunk last year too.

[Hoosiernsavga]

15 hours ago, BlackPanther said:

Fountain.

 

Seriously?

I agree i think we cut a player with way more upside than Johnson who we just traded for... Not trying to play GM thats only my opinion as a couch fan GM. LOL 

[ColtsBlueFL]

16 hours ago, love the shoe said:

I think the post above is right Fountain goes to the ps and that happens on Sunday correct ? Then on Monday we can pick up guys that were cut or is this backwards ?  

 

Here is the short form timeline-

 

All 32 NFL teams are required to be at the 53 man roster limit before 4:00 PM ET September 1

 

All 31 other teams can then place a claim on cut/waived player(s) and add him to their 53 man roster (if awarded). If the player goes unclaimed through waivers, they are free to sign with any team as an unrestricted free agent. The waiver wire order is identical to the 2018 NFL Draft order.

 

The waiver claim period ends at 12:00 PM ET on Sunday, September 2

 

Teams can then start to fill their practice squad (10) after 1:00 PM ET on Sunday, September 2

 

These last two items are coming up very shortly...

[HarryTheCat]

14 hours ago, Boiler_Colt said:

Simon for sure. You cant preach competition and culture and then cut the hardest working and most productive guy. The locker room will see through your gospel eventually.

Not only the locker room, but the next crop of FAs will certainly think twice before signing in Indy. 

[csmopar]

8 minutes ago, HarryTheCat said:

Not only the locker room, but the next crop of FAs will certainly think twice before signing in Indy. 

Meh not any worse then this last season with Lucks uncertainty 

[Shive]

12 hours ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

 

This is why cutting Simon makes sense.

[LockeDown]

Keeping Grant and not Fountain.  Neither were terribly productive in preseason, but since we are developing young people, might as well take a chance on the upside of Fountain.   That being said, I hope they ar hiding Grant and he becomes this good possession receiver. 

[TheMarine]

2 minutes ago, LockeDown said:

Keeping Grant and not Fountain.  Neither were terribly productive in preseason, but since we are developing young people, might as well take a chance on the upside of Fountain.   That being said, I hope they ar hiding Grant and he becomes this good possssin receiver. 

the Fountain cut is an obvious attempt to get him on the Practice Squad, which I hope he does clear them

[LockeDown]

Just now, TheMarine said:

the Fountain cut is an obvious attempt to get him on the Practice Squad, which I hope he does clear them

Yeah, probably right, but why keep  Grant?  Did he actually look good in camp but not preseason?

[richard pallo]

42 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Here is the short form timeline-

 

All 32 NFL teams are required to be at the 53 man roster limit before 4:00 PM ET September 1

 

All 31 other teams can then place a claim on cut/waived player(s) and add him to their 53 man roster (if awarded). If the player goes unclaimed through waivers, they are free to sign with any team as an unrestricted free agent. The waiver wire order is identical to the 2018 NFL Draft order.

 

The waiver claim period ends at 12:00 PM ET on Sunday, September 2

 

Teams can then start to fill their practice squad (10) after 1:00 PM ET on Sunday, September 2

 

These last two items are coming up very shortly...

If a team puts in a claim and is awarded the player they have to cut a player to make room for him.  I imagine the player cut also has to go through waivers.  If so there is another opportunity to put in an additional claim on those 2nd. wave of players released.  Am I correct?  

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

If a team puts in a claim and is awarded the player they have to cut a player to make room for him.  I imagine the player cut also has to go through waivers.  If so there is another opportunity to put in an additional claim on those 2nd. wave of players released.  Am I correct?  

It depends on who is cut

   Vested Vets do not go through the Waiver Claim until after the trade deadline 

 

     Info from the Cincinnati Bengals SB site

[csmopar]

17 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

If a team puts in a claim and is awarded the player they have to cut a player to make room for him.  I imagine the player cut also has to go through waivers.  If so there is another opportunity to put in an additional claim on those 2nd. wave of players released.  Am I correct?  

After 12 pm, nonvested players go thru waivers for 24 hours, after that they become FA

[ColtsBlueFL]

21 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

If a team puts in a claim and is awarded the player they have to cut a player to make room for him.  

 

Yes

 

Quote

I imagine the player cut also has to go through waivers.  If so there is another opportunity to put in an additional claim on those 2nd. wave of players released.  Am I correct?  

 

Depends upon who is released.  This is from NBC Sports web site-

 

*******************************

Waived - A non-vested player (less than four years of service) who is terminated goes through waivers. When he is released another team can claim him within a certain period of time. A vested veteran only goes through the waiver system from the trading deadline in midseason through the end of the season. During the offseason and all the way up to the trading deadline, a vested veteran gets released. 

 

Released - A vested veteran is free when he is terminated and can sign with any club. Keep in mind, if the termination takes place between the end of the trading deadline and the end of the calendar year, the player goes through waivers. A vested veteran released this time of year is free to sign with any team. 

 

Cut - An unofficial term for being terminated and one of the above two categories applies.

*******************************

 

If a player waived is not claimed, he becomes an unrestricted free agent.

[HarryTheCat]

36 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Meh not any worse then this last season with Lucks uncertainty 

And we've all seen how brilliantly successful Ballard has been in the FA market. He's starting to look like Grigson 2.0.

[Archer]

I was personally ticked that Hines made the roster.  He didn’t deserve to make the PS even.  Fountain, on the other hand, deserves to make the active roster...

[w87r]

"Personally ticked"

 

Lol

 

 

Get over yourself.

[crazycolt1]

I am not going to voice an opinion on who was cut and who was not.

I wasn't there during training camps and practices and didn't see the players on a daily bases.

It was up to the coaches talking with each other and making the tough choices. And then it was ultimately up to Ballard. 

Like it or not it is what it is.

[csmopar]

37 minutes ago, HarryTheCat said:

And we've all seen how brilliantly successful Ballard has been in the FA market. He's starting to look like Grigson 2.0.

You're so far away from being correct, it's a wonder you even know Ballard's name...

 

first off,

 

Grigson had a reputation for once a FA entered the building, that FA 9/10 didn't leave the building without a contract. Even if that meant WAY over paying.

 

Grigson had a rep for signing washed up Vets to contracts... See Andre Johnson and Trent Cole. Usually over paying.

 

Grigson, by his own administion, had one heck of an ego. Ballard doesn't. 

 

Ballard is doing the EXACT OPPOSITE.

 

now I don't and haven't agreed with some of Ballard's moves but to say he's Grigson 2.0 is evidence on someone who obviously wasn't paying attention during the Grigson era

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, csmopar said:

You're so far away from being correct, it's a wonder you even know Ballard's name...

 

first off,

 

Grigson had a reputation for once a FA entered the building, that FA 9/10 didn't leave the building without a contract. Even if that meant WAY over paying.

 

Grigson had a rep for signing washed up Vets to contracts... See Andre Johnson and Trent Cole. Usually over paying.

 

Grigson, by his own administion, had one heck of an ego. Ballard doesn't. 

 

Ballard is doing the EXACT OPPOSITE.

 

now I don't and haven't agreed with some of Ballard's moves but to say he's Grigson 2.0 is evidence on someone who obviously wasn't paying attention during the Grigson era

The thing is most are forgetting we are right in the middle of a rebuild. Maybe the Colts don't want to call it that but that is exactly what is going on.

We have a whole new set of coaches and we haven't even seen them on how they react in a real live regular season game.

Pretty much a whole new roster full of rookies and second year players.

For those to expect this team to be a playoff contender is forcing expectations that are pretty much impossible to reach.

I will root for them to win every game just as always but knowing the facts also helps me accept reality.

Pointing a finger at Ballard at this point is way too premature one way or another.

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The thing is most are forgetting we are right in the middle of a rebuild. Maybe the Colts don't want to call it that but that is exactly what is going on.

We have a whole new set of coaches and we haven't even seen them on how they react in a real live regular season game.

Pretty much a whole new roster full of rookies and second year players.

For those to expect this team to be a playoff contender is forcing expectations that are pretty much impossible to reach.

I will root for them to win every game just as always but knowing the facts also helps me accept reality.

Pointing a finger at Ballard at this point is way too premature one way or another.

I agree. Reluctantly but you're right

[HarryTheCat]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

You're so far away from being correct, it's a wonder you even know Ballard's name...

 

first off,

 

Grigson had a reputation for once a FA entered the building, that FA 9/10 didn't leave the building without a contract. Even if that meant WAY over paying.

 

Grigson had a rep for signing washed up Vets to contracts... See Andre Johnson and Trent Cole. Usually over paying.

 

Grigson, by his own administion, had one heck of an ego. Ballard doesn't. 

 

Ballard is doing the EXACT OPPOSITE.

 

now I don't and haven't agreed with some of Ballard's moves but to say he's Grigson 2.0 is evidence on someone who obviously wasn't paying attention during the Grigson era

Depending on how this year's crop goes, Ballard could even turn out to be Chris Polian 2.0. 

[Fluke_33]

46 minutes ago, HarryTheCat said:

Depending on how this year's crop goes, Ballard could even turn out to be Chris Polian 2.0. 

I don’t think we will really know until mid season next year.   Hopefully see the team start to gel towards the end of this year though.   That’s what I’m hoping for this season. 

[csmopar]

2 hours ago, HarryTheCat said:

Depending on how this year's crop goes, Ballard could even turn out to be Chris Polian 2.0. 

Well.. we did go to the Super Bowl with Chris Polian as personnel manager... just saying. 

 

Polians biggest problem was the no backup plan for Manning. 

[masterlock]

5 hours ago, HarryTheCat said:

And we've all seen how brilliantly successful Ballard has been in the FA market. He's starting to look like Grigson 2.0.

 

I don't think anyone can ever be as bad as Grigson, LOL. But I can now count at least FOUR very suspect, head-scratching moves: 1) He let a very affordable Rashan Mevlin walk. 2) He cut a talented D-lineman in Hankins, 3) He actually wanted McDaniels for HC (and never even interviewed Dave Taub), and 4) Fired arguably the best defender the Colts had in John Simon--a high-character guy if ever there was one. 

 

These are some very disconcerting mistakes IMO, which cannot be overlooked. I'm sorry, but you just don't cut talented, difference-making, affordable football players on a roster that is sorely lacking in talent and difference makers. If this were a deep, talent-loaded roster then yes, you can afford to cut a player based on overall fit with scheme. You have that luxury. But the Colts don't have that kind of roster.

 

Now, if 2 years from now the Colts are looking like Super Bowl-bound world-beaters, then I'll be happy to admit I was wrong. But as it stands now, I have a creeping sense of concern over some of Ballard's decisions.

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, masterlock said:

 

I don't think anyone can ever be as bad as Grigson, LOL. But I can now count at least FOUR very suspect, head-scratching moves: 1) He let a very affordable Rashan Mevlin walk. 2) He cut a talented D-lineman in Hankins, 3) He actually wanted McDaniels for HC (and never even interviewed Dave Taub), and 4) Fired arguably the best defender the Colts had in John Simon--a high-character guy if ever there was one. 

 

These are some very disconcerting mistakes IMO, which cannot be overlooked. I'm sorry, but you just don't cut talented, difference-making, affordable football players on a roster that is sorely lacking in talent and difference makers. If this were a deep, talent-loaded roster then yes, you can afford to cut a player based on overall fit with scheme. You have that luxury. But the Colts don't have that kind of roster.

 

Now, if 2 years from now the Colts are looking like Super Bowl-bound world-beaters, then I'll be happy to admit I was wrong. But as it stands now, I have a creeping sense of concern over some of Ballard's decisions.

 

1.    Scheme fit.   Melvin plays Man.   We now play zone.

 

2.     Scheme fit.   Hankins does not like the 4-3.   He prefers the 3-4.   

 

3.     Ballard wanted an offensive minded head coach.   Taub’s specialty is special teams.   Why the outrage?   Did Taub get hired as a HC elsewhere?

 

4.   Scheme fit.   If you read Ballard’s comments today this was his hardest cut.   Simon is one of his favorite players.   But the RDE has certain requirements and Simon couldn’t answer them.  Scheme fit.

 

 

 

 

[masterlock]

13 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

1.    Scheme fit.   Melvin plays Man.   We now play zone.

 

2.     Scheme fit.   Hankins does not like the 4-3.   He prefers the 3-4.   

 

3.     Ballard wanted an offensive minded head coach.   Taub’s specialty is special teams.   Why the outrage?   Did Taub get hired as a HC elsewhere?

 

4.   Scheme fit.   If you read Ballard’s comments today this was his hardest cut.   Simon is one of his favorite players.   But the RDE has certain requirements and Simon couldn’t answer them.  Scheme fit.

 

 

1. Melvin PLAYED man because he was asked to. It's not like that was his specialty. Since playing zone requires LESS coverage skill, I'm quite sure he would have performed satisfactorily. 

 

2. Doesn't matter whether he "liked" it. Hankins had the ability to disrupt, which is of paramount importance in a Tampa-2 defense predicated on shooting gaps and pressuring the passer.

 

3. No outrage over Taub.

 

4. Scheme blah blah blah.

 

Most of what you're saying is based on "scheme/fit" arguments which I already addressed in my original post. Nothing you said really addressed that.