Nyhiem Hines our Dion Lewis

[MikeCurtis]

One thing from watching the Hines videos, he took some major hits at the end of some of his runs

 

Derwin James clocked him in one hit, where I didnt think he would get up

 

He bounced up, he is a tough dude, but I truly wonder if he can hold up in the NFL, as an every down back

 

He needs to protect himself a little better when the hits are coming

 

I personally dont see him as an every down back. I think 20 carries a game would be too much.

 

Maybe 4-5 passes a game, maybe 10 runs a game..........

 

He helps us in punt returns.......

 

He does offer some amazing upside as RB that can motion to the slot....... they will have to account for him .... there arent many LBs that can cover that speed

 

But who knows...........

 

.02

 

Deano

[Smonroe]

2 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

One thing from watching the Hines videos, he took some major hits at the end of some of his runs

 

Derwin James clocked him in one hit, where I didnt think he would get up

 

He bounced up, he is a tough dude, but I truly wonder if he can hold up in the NFL, as an every down back

 

He needs to protect himself a little better when the hits are coming

 

I personally dont see him as an every down back. I think 20 carries a game would be too much.

 

Maybe 4-5 passes a game, maybe 10 runs a game..........

 

He helps us in punt returns.......

 

He does offer some amazing upside as RB that can motion to the slot....... they will have to account for him .... there arent many LBs that can cover that speed

 

But who knows...........

 

.02

 

Deano

 

Don’t know if it’s been mentioned because I didn’t go through all the posts.  He talked about how Chubb creamed him in practice one day, ala Clowney v Michigatz.  Shook it off pretty well.

 

I think he’s going to be a weapon but we need to remember that everybody in the NFL is fast, and that a lot of people were high on Ferguson before we actually saw him play in a real game.  

 

 

[HectorRoberts]

I hope he isn’t! Dion Lewis use to be our Dion Lewis!

[NewColtsFan]

On 5/12/2018 at 9:18 AM, A8bil said:

I never said getting 2k was not impressive, and I'm not "trashing" CJ...I'm judging his career for what it was.  He had one great year because the league was not prepared for CJ's speed, not that he was a good RB.  Once the league adjusted for his speed, he became very pedestrian. 1000 yard seasons?  In 2010, there were 17 backs who had 1000+ yds, 15 in 2011 (and CJ was the lowest of all of them), 16 in 2012.  Basically half the starting backs in the league reach 1000 yards, and most of those who dont reach 1000 yards operate in a RB by committee system.  Again look at his drop off in 20+, 40+ and TD runs.  He had one great season (2009), one good season (2010) and the rest were pretty average, but in a way that is not actually helpful to a consistent offense. After 2010, he became a game breaker who couldn't break a game...and he never was a chainmover.  Why?  Not because he didn't have speed, but because he wasn't a very good RB.  Which is the point being made in this thread.  Speed without RB skills will not get you far in this league, particularly now that defenses have gotten so much faster.  

 

Thanks for this post.     Appreciate it.

 

An honest question for you...     which website had the info,  the details about the drop off in 20 and 40 yard runs...?    I've never seen or even heard of that?    Can you offer me a link?

 

I haven't forgotten about our discussion.   I've been trying to do some homework on it,  and it fells on a holiday weekend with some oblgations.    And this week has some other considerations.     I promise,  I will get back to you,  just not exactly sure when.    I'm not trying to be evasive hear.    Things just got a bit busier than I expected...

 

Thanks for your patience....

 

 

[Dark Superman]

I believe Hines is going to be a heck of a lot better than Dion Lewis. I feel like he's going to be our Sproles/Edelman/Antonio Brown

I wouldn't be shocked if Hines was in the running for Offensive Rookie of the year. This kid is freaking explosive and can even play in the slot.

[Dark Superman]

Hines may very well end up being the steal of the Draft.

[throwing BBZ]

On 5/13/2018 at 6:26 AM, MikeCurtis said:

One thing from watching the Hines videos, he took some major hits at the end of some of his runs

 

Derwin James clocked him in one hit, where I didnt think he would get up

 

He bounced up, he is a tough dude, but I truly wonder if he can hold up in the NFL, as an every down back

 

He needs to protect himself a little better when the hits are coming

 

I personally dont see him as an every down back. I think 20 carries a game would be too much.

 

Maybe 4-5 passes a game, maybe 10 runs a game..........

 

He helps us in punt returns.......

 

He does offer some amazing upside as RB that can motion to the slot....... they will have to account for him .... there arent many LBs that can cover that speed

 

But who knows...........

 

.02

 

Deano

 

 I will take a stab and say he will never have more than 160 carries in a season.
But he can be very valuable.

[A8bil]

On 5/14/2018 at 12:37 AM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Thanks for this post.     Appreciate it.

 

An honest question for you...     which website had the info,  the details about the drop off in 20 and 40 yard runs...?    I've never seen or even heard of that?    Can you offer me a link?

 

I haven't forgotten about our discussion.   I've been trying to do some homework on it,  and it fells on a holiday weekend with some oblgations.    And this week has some other considerations.     I promise,  I will get back to you,  just not exactly sure when.    I'm not trying to be evasive hear.    Things just got a bit busier than I expected...

 

Thanks for your patience....

 

 

Sorry...I sort of dropped off as well...offseason, vacations, etc.  J ust go to nfl.com.  They show broader statistics.  And, if you know how to use pro-football-reference filters, you can get lots of detail.  

[Dark Superman]

Nyheim Hines our Darren Sproles but hopefully better.

[WoolMagnet]

On 5/9/2018 at 6:40 PM, A8bil said:

Yep...seen him play.  Don't like the pick.  Not shifty, average vision, and not quick/fast enough to make a difference.  I pointed out Ford and Spiller because they are much faster than Hines, but they had marginal impact in the NFL, and at least Spiller had more skills as a RB.  Hines can only survive in the NFL as a speed back and frankly he's just not that fast.    

 

I'll add that if you go back and watch Mack game tapes, he makes defenses take worse angles than Hines does.  In other words, college players were able to adjust to Hines' speed more than Mack's.  I suspect Hines will have a few big plays where defenses make mistakes, but he's going to have less of an impact than Tavon Austin, which is to say almost no impact. 

Damn, i wish Ballard would have talked to you before the draft.

then he wouldnt have wasted the pick on Hines.

well, after Ballard falls the way of Grigs, maybe you can take over.

[Pacergeek]

It would be nice if Dion Lewis was our Dion Lewis. Grigson cut him in favor of Trent Richardson. How does Grigson still have an NFL job? Must be connected with some influential people. 

[lollygagger8]

I don't care if he's .13 faster/slower than whoever, I'm just excited to see Hines in action. 

[A8bil]

11 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

Damn, i wish Ballard would have talked to you before the draft.

then he wouldnt have wasted the pick on Hines.

well, after Ballard falls the way of Grigs, maybe you can take over.

I guess fans aren't supposed to post opinions on message boards? 

[WoolMagnet]

4 hours ago, A8bil said:

I guess fans aren't supposed to post opinions on message boards? 

Of course, just funny how many accomplished GMs are on this board.

i like to give players a chance before i write them off.

[A8bil]

4 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

Of course, just funny how many accomplished GMs are on this board.

i like to give players a chance before i write them off.

Some more accomplished than others.  ;)  Let's revisit this thread in December.  I don't think Hines will suck, but if he had even Tavon Austin's level of success, I would be surprised.  People are just putting way too high of expectations on him.  

[WoolMagnet]

7 minutes ago, A8bil said:

Some more accomplished than others.  ;)  Let's revisit this thread in December.  I don't think Hines will suck, but if he had even Tavon Austin's level of success, I would be surprised.  People are just putting way too high of expectations on him.  

You are right about that.  Even the coaches have been hyping him up.  I rarely predict future success for draftees.... at any position.  Too many variables.  " Sure things" become busts.  And "nobodies" become Hall of Famers.  Even the professional GMs have arguably low success in predicting future success.

i just hope the kid plays like he's back in HS "playin ball." 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Hines can be much better and explosive than Lewis. 

And as far I know hasn't had any knee issues like Lewis has had multiple times.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 5/8/2018 at 9:09 PM, Hoosiernsavga said:

I hope hes much better than Lewis. Lewis fit in the Pats system fine but he is so overrated IMO. Not sure how good Hines will be in the NFL. But he has way more potential and upside than Lewis. 

 

That can be so very true. And I'm liking Reich's system over Belichek's also.

[Coffeedrinker]

On 5/9/2018 at 1:54 PM, indyagent17 said:

a Yard or Two? we are talking .14 of a second not 1.14 seconds.  Im out!

 

Look how fast this claps 14 in one second now break that down 0.14 and tell me how a guy can gain one or two yards in that span. so at his speed he only gets just over one clap, does that looks one or two yards, I man cannot run a yard in 0.14 let alone two

 

 

This is basic math Indy agent.

 

This is a bit oversimplified because it does not take into account acceleration and that a human does not run a constant speed but

 

CJ runs 40 yards in 4.24 seconds.  That means he runs 9.433 yards/sec.  9.433 yards/sec*0.14 seconds equals 1.32 yards.

[Coffeedrinker]

On 5/10/2018 at 3:32 PM, bananabucket said:

 

His point was that the bulk of his yardage came on huge plays, which were a product if his world class speed.  That is absolutely true.  Johnson would have so many runs where he got nothing, then would break an 80 yarder and make his statline look awesome.  It happened time and time again. 

Barry Sanders and Walter Payton did the same thing.

 

If I remember correctly, when he played, Sanders lead the NFL in negative rushing plays just about every year.

[indyagent17]

3 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

This is basic math Indy agent.

 

This is a bit oversimplified because it does not take into account acceleration and that a human does not run a constant speed but

 

CJ runs 40 yards in 4.24 seconds.  That means he runs 9.433 yards/sec.  9.433 yards/sec*0.14 seconds equals 1.32 yards.

I put that post up 3 months ago, point taken 

[Coffeedrinker]

30 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

I put that post up 3 months ago, point taken 

  I didn't look at the date.

[A8bil]

3 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Barry Sanders and Walter Payton did the same thing.

 

If I remember correctly, when he played, Sanders lead the NFL in negative rushing plays just about every year.

True, but ... here are the difference(s):  (1) Neither Sanders nor Payton had world class speed; and yet, (2) both Sanders and Payton continued to break off huge runs throughout their careers.  CJ was pretty much the undisputed fastest man in the NFL for 5-6 years.  Only a handful of guys were ever considered in his realm of speed--and most of those, i.e., DeSean Jackson, played on offense.  Though fast, neither Sanders nor Payton were considered the fastest guys when they played....they were just great running backs.  Both were breaking off big runs throughout the 10 core years of their careers.  

[Peterk2011]

On 5/9/2018 at 8:54 PM, indyagent17 said:

a Yard or Two? we are talking .14 of a second not 1.14 seconds.  Im out!

 

Look how fast this claps 14 in one second now break that down 0.14 and tell me how a guy can gain one or two yards in that span. so at his speed he only gets just over one clap, does that looks one or two yards, I man cannot run a yard in 0.14 let alone two

 

 

Man, do your math. These guys run the 40 yards in 4.30-ish seconds. So they run 4 yards in 0.43 seconds (divided the time and distance by 10). So they run 1 yard / 0.11 seconds (divided distance and time by 4 again). 

 

There is your 1 yard. And if you consider that they are running the distance from a 2 point stance - not a fly start -, they gain speed stroughout the entire distance. So they are slower at te beginning and fastest at the end. So that 0.14 at full speed is even bigger than what we have just calculated from the total distance/time.

 

Edit: Just noticed that this is an old post. Please ignore my whole response.

[alawai]

Lol!  During PT test in the military I always questioned why are we running in our dry fits and jogging shoes?  Should we be doing PT in full gear, boots, BDU, mask, canteen and pack.  A WR/DB an do a 4:4 but can he do it in full gear?  Wonder what his time would be in full pads/gear?  A LB/DE may do a 4:8 but may be able to do a similar time in full gear.  I’m not saying the WR/DB isn’t strong enough to run a similar time in full gear but running is shorts and T’s is much different than with pads.... I remember a scout/coach saying that darn he’s slow but on the field he’s a step faster than everyone else!... Yes it’s great to have timed speed in shorts and T’s but game/field speed is what counts.

[A8bil]

On 8/2/2018 at 11:04 PM, WoolMagnet said:

You are right about that.  Even the coaches have been hyping him up.  I rarely predict future success for draftees.... at any position.  Too many variables.  " Sure things" become busts.  And "nobodies" become Hall of Famers.  Even the professional GMs have arguably low success in predicting future success.

i just hope the kid plays like he's back in HS "playin ball." 

So, now that we've seen Hines play with actual/fringe NFL caliber players, any revised views on him?  It is only one game, but it certainly was a chance to see his speed and athleticism compared to the NFL--a huge jump from college.  Everyone still think he is explosive?

 

I continue to believe that Mack shows a speed or quickness, which if not actually faster than other players on the field is somehow deceptive to defenders.  He just looks like he's moving faster than everyone else.  Hope he can stay healthy.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, A8bil said:

So, now that we've seen Hines play with actual/fringe NFL caliber players, any revised views on him?  It is only one game, but it certainly was a chance to see his speed and athleticism compared to the NFL--a huge jump from college.  Everyone still think he is explosive?

 

I continue to believe that Mack shows a speed or quickness, which if not actually faster than other players on the field is somehow deceptive to defenders.  He just looks like he's moving faster than everyone else.  Hope he can stay healthy.

It's only 1 game and I do think Hines is explosive. 

[A8bil]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It's only 1 game and I do think Hines is explosive. 

Yep...as I said, it's only one game.  He'll have lots more chances to prove himself.

 

Thoughts on Mack?

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, A8bil said:

Yep...as I said, it's only one game.  He'll have lots more chances to prove himself.

 

Thoughts on Mack?

I agree with you, Mack looks smooth and fast. I hope he is ok, he tweaked a hammy last night.

[WoolMagnet]

2 hours ago, A8bil said:

So, now that we've seen Hines play with actual/fringe NFL caliber players, any revised views on him?  It is only one game, but it certainly was a chance to see his speed and athleticism compared to the NFL--a huge jump from college.  Everyone still think he is explosive?

 

I continue to believe that Mack shows a speed or quickness, which if not actually faster than other players on the field is somehow deceptive to defenders.  He just looks like he's moving faster than everyone else.  Hope he can stay healthy.

1 game does not a define a career.

[TheMarine]

Hines Im not worried about, and wont be until hes not seeing the field. Last night were possibly nerves, and he'll be coached up from this. I do want to see how he performs in the 3rd game and how he's used in formations, and we'll go from there

[A8bil]

2 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

1 game does not a define a career.

Of course...that's  what my post said...it IS just one game.  No need to repeat it.

 

I'm not harping on the mistakes he made or using that to conclude he has no future.  I'm just asking whether there are any revised views on how explosive he is/will be based on seeing him play at the NFL level.  This was, after all, the first chance to see him at game speed against NFL or near NFL player talent.   

[LJpalmbeacher2]

5 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

1 game does not a define a career.

Don't tell that to Bill Buckner or Scott Norwood..... Lol

[WoolMagnet]

17 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

Don't tell that to Bill Buckner or Scott Norwood..... Lol

Or Trent Dilfer

[krunk]

Nyheim will be fine. Rookie jitters is what we witnessed. We will see a better player next time. At least on Offense. I was never that keen on them making him return punts.

[A8bil]

Maybe next week?

[JPFolks]

At this point Nyheim should make the team.  He likely WILL, but his performance, in my opinion, has been the worst of any of the draft picks or significant FAs.  (except whoever was at Center late in the first preseason game who couldn't get a snap off accurately 3 straight plays.  I never did get his name).  Nyheim is a dangerous risk at this point with his fumbling and he hasn't done anything good to date in a game.  

[Surge89]

On 8/2/2018 at 4:36 AM, WoolMagnet said:

Damn, i wish Ballard would have talked to you before the draft.

then he wouldnt have wasted the pick on Hines.

well, after Ballard falls the way of Grigs, maybe you can take over.

 

Except that despite your sarcasm he isn't wrong. If you follow draft prospects you wouldn't be high on Hines either. And his play is the proof.

[Surge89]

On 8/10/2018 at 11:09 AM, A8bil said:

So, now that we've seen Hines play with actual/fringe NFL caliber players, any revised views on him?  It is only one game, but it certainly was a chance to see his speed and athleticism compared to the NFL--a huge jump from college.  Everyone still think he is explosive?

 

I continue to believe that Mack shows a speed or quickness, which if not actually faster than other players on the field is somehow deceptive to defenders.  He just looks like he's moving faster than everyone else.  Hope he can stay healthy.

 

My opinion hasn't changed. I have always thought Wilkins is the better runner and Hines while he's gonna try real hard just doesn't have the ability to make a guy miss. Regardless of how much "speed" you have if you can't make the first guy miss you won't be a good RB in the NFL.  Plus he's a disaster on return duty. Which is just fuel to the burning fire that he's been showing this preseason. If Zach banner was cut and he was a 4th I'm not sure if Hines is gonna make it.

[WoolMagnet]

1 minute ago, Surge89 said:

 

Except that despite your sarcasm he isn't wrong. If you follow draft prospects you wouldn't be high on Hines either. And his play is the proof.

Feel better ?

i'm sure glad we didnt give up on Peyton after his 2nd preseason game.