So.....this is THE plan? (merge)

[threeflight]

2 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

No, this is called you not understanding how the normal progression of a coach in the NFL goes.  How long was Bruce Arians an assistant before getting a HC gig?  Andy Reid began his coaching career in 1983...got his first HC gig in Philly in 1999.  Pederson and Reich have been coaching about the same amount of time and Pederson only just got his shot with Philly...oh and he didn't even call KC's plays.  Everything you've said about Reich could be said about Pederson.

 

Bellichick started his coaching career in 1975.  First HC gig was in '91.

Dungy started his coaching career in 1981.   First HC gig was in 1996.

 

 

You have ABSOLUTELY NO idea if Manning is a better coaching candidate than Reich.  Or Frazier for that matter.  This is all about you wanting a name you're familiar with.

Refer to my race horse breeding analogy.

 

Hell I will do you even one better.  Back when I had a 50 horse stable, I RARELY bought yearlings or bred my own horses.  I claimed or bought them privately.  Because I did not have millions backing me up, I had to look for horses that may not have been racing great, hence why they were priced cheaper, but horses that did show me SOMETHING. Whether that be a race that pops up, or great gate speed, great breeding, just something.  Then I hoped to get them and improve upon them.  But I always looked for that specialness.  

 

I could give you countless examples where that strategy paid off.

 

With Reich or Frazier or Campbell?  I don't see special.  I see average.  The chances of any of them ever taking the Colts to the promised land are imo very low.  IF you can point to something in their background and pedigree other than just hope to prove me wrong, please show me.

 

If that is what you guys want?  A good chance of average?  By all means tote the company line and go all in in Leslie Frazier!!!!!! yayyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

[indyagent17]

Being a professional, Ballard would be taken aback because he is a professional, MdDuffus is a child and very unprofessional and you can never convince me that that NE didn't get a huge laugh out of this and they did it and it stinks to heaven. That franchise in Foxboro may be a 5 time super bowl champion bu the rest of the nation knows how deceitful they are and they are not to be trusted,  The boos that rang out in Minneapolis was deafening. Everyone knows who they are and how they operate. Karma is a cruel lady, its building up for you Mr Kraft et al

[Buck Showalter]

14 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Reeves was too

   I discount Iron Mike because the D and Buddy Ryan saved him

Ha, but even Reeves never won the big one as a head coach...

[dgambill]

14 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

What “realistic” choice do you want then?

He wants a NAME....you heard him...a Saban or Urban Meyers or Jim Harbaugh or Peyton Manning...who knows maybe he wants us to convince Tom Brady to retire and come coach us....but he wants super star names that have NO INTEREST in us...and no interest in being an NFL coach. Because I'm sure that would work out well. Probably mad that Gruden went to the Raiders or we didn't steal some other teams SB winning coach like those were even remote options.

[threeflight]

8 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Then you didn’t go through the early days of Frank Kush etc.

If that is your barometer for success or no success, no wonder you would be happy with Leslie Frazier.

[Buddy Lee]

15 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Reeves was too

   I discount Iron Mike because the D and Buddy Ryan saved him

Forrest Gregg is another

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Buddy Lee said:

Forrest Gregg is another

Raymond Berry

[esmort]

10 minutes ago, Andrew86 said:

I don’t know about Peyton Manning honestly as a coach but if the best you can do is Frazier, Reich and Campbell it’s not a good time to be a colts fan.  If you can honestly say any of them get you excited I think your lying to yourself. The best you can say about any of them is that they might be head coaching material. Seriously if anyone wants to make a serious argument that any of these three losers are going to make a great head coach I’d love to hear it.

 

You complain and complain, but I have yet to see you answer ... who are your choices?? Give us your top 3?

 

... and which coaches hired this year were so great that we missed out on?

[threeflight]

7 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Qualities that make a race horse great and a coach great are very very different. Just like qualities that make a player great and a coach great are very very different. Sometimes they over lap...and they have both but then it comes down to does the player want to be a great coach as much as they wanted to be a great player. Manning has shown he has no desire (at this time) to be a great coach. So I've seen many many great sales people get promoted to managers and why do they not succeed? Because the attributes in sales is not the same as managing people to sell. Why if they were great could they not teach, mentor, and lead others to be great? Sure there are a special few that do but I see way more of the other. Unless you have someone that is driven and their heart is in it to make themselves great at something it doesn't matter how talented they are...it won't happen. Could Manning be a great coach...possibly...but he has to put into practice and learn the pieces necessary to add to what he has already to be great...and that means putting in the time and experience coaching to learn how to do it. He is a driven person... I think he could do it...but his heart isn't in it..so no..right now I don't think he would. Same with Nick Saban....he washed out of the NFL...he has no desire to teach grown men...he likes to mold young people....probably also likes having the most talent and working from a competitive advantage against every foe...why give that crutch up. What matters is he doesn't want to be an NFL coach...neither does Meyers...else they would float their name out there to show they are interested. We just got rid of a coach that wasn't all in....so lets hire one that isn't all in to coach us now?  So I come back to what we have now....guys that ARE interested...fully invested in being a great NFL coach...with quality attributes we are looking for. Let's find the one that matches up to what fits us and help them become the next great coach. I don't see any Joe Montana's, Peyton Mannings, Ray Lewis's asking to coach....I don't see any Bill Cowers or Jimmy Johnsons asking to come back and coach.....so who exactly is this magical coach we should get?

If you don't think Peyton Manning was the second guy in charge coaching the team the last 10 years he was there, I don't know what to tell you.  He was a coach WHILE he was a player.  Even Polian has said this.

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, threeflight said:

If that is your barometer for success or no success, no wonder you would be happy with Leslie Frazier.

Who said that I would 

[superrep1967]

1 hour ago, threeflight said:

I just want to get this straight.  

We hold onto Chuck WELL PAST his expiration date by a good 2-3 years.  Partly because of some bizarre loyalty that Irsay had to Chuck and lets face it, partly because Irsay could not find a better coach to take over.  But a sense of urgency is and was starting to be felt as Lucks best years are starting to feel.....wasted.

 

So we wait.

 

And wait.  Suffering.  But we wait for THE coach.

 

Then Chuck finally gets let go.  

 

And the best we could do was McDaniels.   I am not saying anything to knock him as a coach, because he very well might have been the best of the bunch, but lets face it, if he had been the OC for lets say the Houston Texans the past how many years with the same track record of success, yes he might have been coveted but he would not have nearly the mystique that he does now.  Being a Patriot and connected to Belly and Brady gave him all kinds of star power that he might not normally have had.  With what happened to him in Denver and St Louis?  I think he is good.....not great.

 

So Josh dumps us.  And here we are.  Entering a very crucial time of Lucks career after 6 long years of Chuck....and the best we can do apparently are Reich, Campbell, and Frazier?  

 

Really?

 

We waited 6 years for Lezlie Frazier??????????

 

Sorry, but at this time the team needs a coach with star power and huge credibility to bring back the fan base and to restore the shoe.  We went through this same scenario back in the late 90s and early 2000s and it wasn't until we got that star power coach in Dungy that things really took off.

 

I would be much happier in just biding our time, even going with an interim coach for now, rather than just hiring a "guy".  

 

If you can't find the right coach now?  Don't press your luck. Don't go all in until you have the nuts.  A Saban.  A Harbaugh.  A Peyton.  Hell I would even be open to bringing on Manning as an apprentice for a year under a teacher/coach, and then for Manning to take over a year from now, rather than just get a "guy".

 

We waited 6 years for this????

I totally agree with you on P. Manning. In fact, I think it's a great idea. But hasn't he agree to do Monday night?

[esmort]

2 minutes ago, threeflight said:

If that is your barometer for success or no success, no wonder you would be happy with Leslie Frazier.

 

Who would you like to see the Colts interview? And Manning isn't happening so pick a few realistic options.

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Refer to my race horse breeding analogy.

 

Hell I will do you even one better.  Back when I had a 50 horse stable, I RARELY bought yearlings or bred my own horses.  I claimed or bought them privately.  Because I did not have millions backing me up, I had to look for horses that may not have been racing great, hence why they were priced cheaper, but horses that did show me SOMETHING. Whether that be a race that pops up, or great gate speed, great breeding, just something.  Then I hoped to get them and improve upon them.  But I always looked for that specialness.  

 

I could give you countless examples where that strategy paid off.

 

With Reich or Frazier or Campbell?  I don't see special.  I see average.  The chances of any of them ever taking the Colts to the promised land are imo very low.  IF you can point to something in their background and pedigree other than just hope to prove me wrong, please show me.

 

If that is what you guys want?  A good chance of average?  By all means tote the company line and go all in in Leslie Frazier!!!!!! yayyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

There is one thing you keep over looking. Men are not horses.

[Jason_]

Just now, threeflight said:

Refer to my race horse breeding analogy.

 

Hell I will do you even one better.  Back when I had a 50 horse stable, I RARELY bought yearlings or bred my own horses.  I claimed or bought them privately.  Because I did not have millions backing me up, I had to look for horses that may not have been racing great, hence why they were priced cheaper, but horses that did show me SOMETHING. Whether that be a race that pops up, or great gate speed, great breeding, just something.  Then I hoped to get them and improve upon them.  But I always looked for that specialness.  

 

I could give you countless examples where that strategy paid off.

 

 

No disrespect intended, but I'm not interested in your horse breeding analogy.  It cannot possibly relate to identifying a quality NFL coach.

 

Quote

 

With Reich or Frazier or Campbell?  I don't see special.  I see average. 

 

 

Again, no disrespect intended, but what would you know about seeing special or average in a potential HC?  Unless you've worked in the business for years, then the answer to that is nothing.  Did you see special in Bellichick before he took the job in Cleveland?  Did you see it after he left Cleveland?  Did you see special in Pete Carroll before or even after his first HC gig in NE?  Cowher?  John Harbaugh?  

 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, threeflight said:

If you don't think Peyton Manning was the second guy in charge coaching the team the last 10 years he was there, I don't know what to tell you.  He was a coach WHILE he was a player.  Even Polian has said this.

Then I would be a great NFL HC because I was too

[threeflight]

8 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

He had less experience than DC and LF and the same as FR. So no one knows   

But McVay showed me he could make a difference in the short time he was there.  It was obvious.

 

These guys being talked about now have never done that.  They are just guys.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, threeflight said:

But McVay showed me he could make a difference in the short time he was there.  It was obvious.

 

These guys being talked about now have never done that.  They are just guys.

[Jason_]

5 minutes ago, threeflight said:

If that is your barometer for success or no success, no wonder you would be happy with Leslie Frazier.

 

please quote PrincetonTiger's post where he said he would be happy with Leslie Frazier.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, threeflight said:

But McVay showed me he could make a difference in the short time he was there.  It was obvious.

 

These guys being talked about now have never done that.  They are just guys.

No they are not. They are horses, remember?

[threeflight]

5 minutes ago, dgambill said:

He wants a NAME....you heard him...a Saban or Urban Meyers or Jim Harbaugh or Peyton Manning...who knows maybe he wants us to convince Tom Brady to retire and come coach us....but he wants super star names that have NO INTEREST in us...and no interest in being an NFL coach. Because I'm sure that would work out well. Probably mad that Gruden went to the Raiders or we didn't steal some other teams SB winning coach like those were even remote options.

Actually I am not sold on Gruden.  I think he is average if I am being honest.

 

Harbaugh I would have loved.

 

We had our chance.  

 

Hell who knows, one more average year at UM and he may be available.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, J@son said:

 

please quote PrincetonTiger's post where he said he would be happy with Leslie Frazier.

Thank You

[superrep1967]

33 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Here is my PLAN

  Step away from the computer and find your happy place

 

lol, true

[Jason_]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Thank You

 

that's one of my biggest pet peeves these days.  "well if you don't agree with me then clearly you are on the exact opposite side since there can be no middle ground"

 

*massive eye roll*

[chad72]

Yep, they are all bums.

 

Lawyers talking like experts about brain surgery to validate their points is what I am gathering.  

[esmort]

Still waiting to see a list of candidates that all the complainers think are "home run hires" (not Manning, Harbaugh, Saban or some other unrealistic choice).

[NewColtsFan]

14 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

I totally agree with you on P. Manning. In fact, I think it's a great idea. But hasn't he agree to do Monday night?

 

No.

 

Not yet he hasn't.

 

[dgambill]

6 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Actually I am not sold on Gruden.  I think he is average if I am being honest.

 

Harbaugh I would have loved.

 

We had our chance.  

 

Hell who knows, one more average year at UM and he may be available.

When did we have our chance? I believe we were coming off a AFC Championship loss with Pagano when Harbaugh was fired....or at least a playoff season...since then he went to his alma mater to coach and is getting paid a crap load of money to do an easier job....why would he leave unless he wants to come back to prove himself in the NFL....and if that is the case you don't think him or his agent would reach out to teams with openings? He is not an option. The options are the guys that took interviews. I'm sure there were many people that Ballard and Grigson before reached out to about our coaching vacancies in the past....I saw no "stars" lining up to coach us....even with AL. Now we have a maybe AL and I still don't see these people just dying to coach us...in fact they are willing to kill their career to get away....but thank god we didn't get stuck with him.....and he WAS the star of this offseason!

[dgambill]

I'm done with this....one thing I can guarantee is that there are going to be a bunch of people unhappy with whomever we hire....and it won't change a thing...and it won't effect the Colts one bit. Heck I might not even like the coaching hire but complaining doesn't solve anything...it won't help. Just let the negativity control you. I'm going to get behind the hire and support the team. If it doesn't work out then we will move on from there...but we have no way to know this next hire might not be the perfect fit for the team...or who knows...be the coach that prepares the way for the coach to follow. Sometimes the best scenerios is a coach that turns it around and sets a team up to land the guy that puts us over the top. Whatever the case...I'm done with the negative nancy's.

[Dingus McGirt]

1 hour ago, threeflight said:

I think Ballard has potential to be  a really good GM.  He is a smart guy.

 

But..........I am sensing a weakness in him.  He is secretly a very cocky guy.  He likes to humble brag big time.  I think he THINKS he is smarter and better than he really is.  

 

This led to the McDaniels fiasco.

Good lord.

[threeflight]

8 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Good lord.

So you thought it was par for the course to be hiring assistant coaches before Josh signed on the dotted line?

 

You thought it was par for the course to announce his hiring before he signed on the dotted line?

 

The fact is, Ballard got cocky.  He thought "who wouldn't want to work for me and the Colts.  It's a done deal...who cares about a signed contract.  There is no way he would stiff me".

 

Believe me, Ballard handled that terribly.  Not blaming him for what Josh did, but I do blame him for the aftermath.

 

 

[Roger]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Ditka is the only one I can think of

Raymond Berry.

[esmort]

2 minutes ago, threeflight said:

So you thought it was par for the course to be hiring assistant coaches before Josh signed on the dotted line?

 

You thought it was par for the course to announce his hiring before he signed on the dotted line?

 

The fact is, Ballard got cocky.  He thought "who wouldn't want to work for me and the Colts.  It's a done deal...who cares about a signed contract.  There is no way he would stiff me".

 

Believe me, Ballard handled that terribly.  Not blaming him for what Josh did, but I do blame him for the aftermath.

 

 

 

 

This point of view is off on so many levels.

[Aluckiswolverine]

1 hour ago, threeflight said:

I think Ballard has potential to be  a really good GM.  He is a smart guy.

 

But..........I am sensing a weakness in him.  He is secretly a very cocky guy.  He likes to humble brag big time.  I think he THINKS he is smarter and better than he really is.  

 

This led to the McDaniels fiasco.

[threeflight]

2 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

 

This point of view is off on so many levels.

I always get a kick out of people that will 100% support the company line no matter what.  No matter how bad things are, it is always pro xxx and anyone who disagrees is an *.

 

I see that a lot with the far pro left movement in this country as well.

 

I really see it a lot in stock trading.  I do that for a living and it amazes me how many times I see people supporting a stock and/or company regardless of how much money they are losing or getting fleeced.  

 

The fact is that Ballard screwed this up, with some help from McDaniels of course.  But we all knew who Josh was.

Now we are in February trying to get guys like Leslie Frazier.

[PrincetonTiger]

26 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I'm done with this....one thing I can guarantee is that there are going to be a bunch of people unhappy with whomever we hire....and it won't change a thing...and it won't effect the Colts one bit. Heck I might not even like the coaching hire but complaining doesn't solve anything...it won't help. Just let the negativity control you. I'm going to get behind the hire and support the team. If it doesn't work out then we will move on from there...but we have no way to know this next hire might not be the perfect fit for the team...or who knows...be the coach that prepares the way for the coach to follow. Sometimes the best scenerios is a coach that turns it around and sets a team up to land the guy that puts us over the top. Whatever the case...I'm done with the negative nancy's.

Where you talking Luke because that sounds like a Yoda statement 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, threeflight said:

I always get a kick out of people that will 100% support the company line no matter what.  No matter how bad things are, it is always pro xxx and anyone who disagrees is an *.

 

I see that a lot with the far pro left movement in this country as well.

 

I really see it a lot in stock trading.  I do that for a living and it amazes me how many times I see people supporting a stock and/or company regardless of how much money they are losing or getting fleeced.  

 

The fact is that Ballard screwed this up, with some help from McDaniels of course.  But we all knew who Josh was.

Now we are in February trying to get guys like Leslie Frazier.

Friendly Reminder from TigerTown 

Remember the rul

  No Politics on Forum

[Buck Showalter]

6 minutes ago, Roger said:

Raymond Berry.

Super Bowl winning coach???

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, threeflight said:

Refer to my race horse breeding analogy.

 

Hell I will do you even one better.  Back when I had a 50 horse stable, I RARELY bought yearlings or bred my own horses.  I claimed or bought them privately.  Because I did not have millions backing me up, I had to look for horses that may not have been racing great, hence why they were priced cheaper, but horses that did show me SOMETHING. Whether that be a race that pops up, or great gate speed, great breeding, just something.  Then I hoped to get them and improve upon them.  But I always looked for that specialness.  

 

I could give you countless examples where that strategy paid off.

 

With Reich or Frazier or Campbell?  I don't see special.  I see average.  The chances of any of them ever taking the Colts to the promised land are imo very low.  IF you can point to something in their background and pedigree other than just hope to prove me wrong, please show me.

 

If that is what you guys want?  A good chance of average?  By all means tote the company line and go all in in Leslie Frazier!!!!!! yayyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

Frank Reich...led the largest come behind win in playoff history against the Oilers (The Comeback)....and largest halftime come from behind in NCAA history when he led the Tarripins from a 31-0 halftime deficit against Miami...both as a back up. Bill Polian has dubbed him as the greatest back up qb in NFL history. He spent the prime of his career backing up Kelly...which is nothing to laugh at...so he couldn't beat out a HOF qb. Ask his teammates about him as a player...a man...they thought he was pretty special. Listen to Nick Foles and Doug Peterson talk about him and how he helped Foles find a game plan and identify what he was good at and help them succeed in the playoffs. They also rave about the character of the man. A motivational speaker...very devout Christian (I know that won't mean much to some but it's a character I admire). Those are some pretty special qualities my friend. He has a pretty unique and special background...and yes one I think can be successful as a HC in the NFL. You might want to read up on the guy...or at least check his wiki page...he is pretty accomplished.

[coltsva]

 

[Goatface Killah]

Brilliant! Lets hire another guy who doesnt want the job! Why? Because he was a great QB!

 

You have ZERO ideas. When someone asked you to be realistic you couldnt even do it. 

 

Anyone can be a monday morning QB in fantasy land, it is much different making actual decisions in real time.

 

Manning doesnt want to coach. He likely wouldn't be a good coach. And this convo is stupid.