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So.....this is THE plan? (merge)

threeflight

By threeflight
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PrincetonTiger

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14 minutes ago, threeflight said:

That is why you give Manning the keys to the franchise and let him apprentice under a veteran coach until he is ready.

 

I mean lets face it, we aren't probably doing much next year anyway.  Ballard's plan is more like 2-3 years down the road to truly be SB ready.  Perfect timing for Manning.

 

I think the idea is brilliant.

What if it takes a decade

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threeflight

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1 minute ago, dgambill said:

What does physical talent have to do with coaching??? There is no correlation to being born with gifts and coaching...something that is done through communication, leadership, experience, and intelligence. You aren't born with any of those things...they are achieved and accumulated through life experience, hard work, study, training, and education. There are no natural born leaders...at least in my opinion. If Peyton Manning wants to be a coach and successful he may very well achieve greatness...but it wasn't because he was born with something...it would be because of all the preparation, study, drive, experience, and education he has obtained around the game....but he still has things to learn about coaching and relaying that to others. Plus does he have the same desire to be a great coach and put in the same time and effort that led him to be a great player? I'd say no as of right now or he would be doing it. What Frank maybe lacked in talent in becoming a great player he doesn't need to necessarily become a great coach or leader of men. He doesn't need to be born 6'5 with a rocket arm to be a great coach...he simply needs to obtain all those attributes I listed before....and none of those are obtained because he was born with the name Reich and not Manning. If he obtains them through hard work and dedication to the craft as an assistant...then that is all that matters...and if he has all those things...he may still not win us a championship if we don't give him the talent necessary...but he will be the right guy to hire. I will let Ballard decide if he has the qualities necessary...from my vantage point it sure appears so.

Ummm...that is exactly what I said 4 posts above.

 

My point about the face horse analogy was not about physical attributes.  It was about if you truly want special, you have to not be afraid to go for it...and pay for it.

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35 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Bringing in Manning as an apprentice coach would be an all time home run imo. It would invigorate the fan base to no end. Let him learn for a year under a veteran coach and then give him the reigns.  

 

Peyton is one of the smartest football men I have ever come across.  If most of the 32 *s we see now as coach can make it to the NFL, I am 99% certain that Manning can not just be a coach, but a damn good one. 

 

I am not saying he should be the coach.  I am saying it is an idea, and certainly a better one than what is being thrown there now.

 

What I am saying is if the best we can do is Leslie Frazier, it is time to take a time out and wait until you REALLY get the man you want, rather than settling.

 

Why would you bring in an inexperienced Manning to do anything in this organization?  You have a new GM and a new coach.  If you bring Manning into the front office now you will undermine Ballard.  If you bring Manning in as an apprentice coach then you undermine whoever the new coach is.  In either scenario, both GM and coach would realize that they are just placeholders for Manning and would be constantly looking over their shoulders. Why introduce that friction?

 

Only way I see Manning come here is to replace someone but not come in as some sort of assistant or apprentice.

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8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

You cant force feed someone who don't want to be eaten.

Exactly! Has Peyton even given an inkling that he is interested in being a coach? None that I've seen....in fact he has said the exact opposite that he is enjoying life without football. So why are people upset that we don't hire someone that DOESN'T EVEN WANT THE JOB. We just had someone like that....and look how horrible that worked out....dodged a real bullet there.

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1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

What if it takes a decade

I would rather take a chance with a guy like a Manning, knowing if it works it is really going to work, then to probably know I am getting average with a Frazier or a Reich or a Campbell.


We just had average with Chuck.  

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threeflight

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Again, you guys are focusing on Manning.  It could be anyone worthy of his pedigree.

 

MY POINT WAS, I would rather wait and go all in and get someone like a Saban or a Meyer or a Manning, then to just get a "guy" like a Frazier.

 

We wasted enough time with Chuck.  It gets you no where.

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9 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Look, I don't even know if Manning would be interested.  No idea.

 

The original point of the thread was, do not wait 6 years with Pagano, and waste any more of Lucks years, with coaches like Frazier or Reich.  Either go for special and think outside of the box, or wait until you TRULY have the guy. 

 

 

What you forgot is even though things went south with Pagano he did have three very successful years here regardless of what you think. Yes Pagano had his problems but he had a lot of help making things go south.

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46 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Bringing in Manning as an apprentice coach would be an all time home run imo. It would invigorate the fan base to no end. Let him learn for a year under a veteran coach and then give him the reigns.  

 

Peyton is one of the smartest football men I have ever come across.  If most of the 32 *s we see now as coach can make it to the NFL, I am 99% certain that Manning can not just be a coach, but a damn good one. 

 

I am not saying he should be the coach.  I am saying it is an idea, and certainly a better one than what is being thrown there now.

 

What I am saying is if the best we can do is Leslie Frazier, it is time to take a time out and wait until you REALLY get the man you want, rather than settling.

Manning doesn't want to coach.   Why would he?

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1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

What you forgot is even though things went south with Pagano he did have three very successful years here regardless of what you think. Yes Pagano had his problems but he had a lot of help making things go south.

That was 100% Luck and playing in a cake division.


Chuck was terrible.

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42 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Bringing in Manning as an apprentice coach would be an all time home run imo. It would invigorate the fan base to no end. Let him learn for a year under a veteran coach and then give him the reigns.  

 

Peyton is one of the smartest football men I have ever come across.  If most of the 32 *s we see now as coach can make it to the NFL, I am 99% certain that Manning can not just be a coach, but a damn good one. 

 

I am not saying he should be the coach.  I am saying it is an idea, and certainly a better one than what is being thrown there now.

 

What I am saying is if the best we can do is Leslie Frazier, it is time to take a time out and wait until you REALLY get the man you want, rather than settling.

 

Manning has ZERO interest in coaching.

 

He hasn't shown any interest in a front office job.

 

He hasn't -- yet -- shown any interest in the Monday night job to replace Gruden.

 

What he's been telegraphing is that the one job that would get his full attention.........      Ownership.

 

Peyton Manning has no interest in working 100 hours a week as a coach.

 

It may be YOUR dream... but it's not his.

 

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6 minutes ago, threeflight said:

I would rather take a chance with a guy like a Manning, knowing if it works it is really going to work, then to probably know I am getting average with a Frazier or a Reich or a Campbell.


We just had average with Chuck.  

 

You only know that about Frazier.  you have no more way of knowing that about Reich or Campbell than you do Manning.  It's entirely possible that Reich could be a 10x better coach than Manning ever could.

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5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Manning has ZERO interest in coaching.

 

He hasn't shown any interest in a front office job.

 

He hasn't -- yet -- shown any interest in the Monday night job to replace Gruden.

 

What he's been telegraphing is that the one job that would get his full attention.........      Ownership.

 

Peyton Manning has no interest in working 100 hours a week as a coach.

 

It may be YOUR dream... but it's not his.

 

As I have stated over and over, Manning is an idea.

 

A better idea than Leslie Frazier. Or Frank Reich.

 

Where there is one outside the box idea, there are others.  Certainly better than what we are hearing.

 

I mean cmon, Frank Reich has been an assistant for years now, in fact with the Colts, and not until this year with the Eagles has he even gotten a mention as a possible HC. He didn't even call their plays. Now all of a sudden he is a guru??

 

That is called a spin job my friends.  

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1 minute ago, threeflight said:

As I have stated over and over, Manning is an idea.

 

A better idea than Leslie Frazier. Or Frank Reich.

 

I mean cmon, Frank Reich has been an assistant for years now, in fact with the Colts, and not until this year with the Eagles has be even gotten a mention as a possible HC. He didn't even call their plays. Now all of a sudden he is a guru??

 

That is called a spin job my friends.  

What “realistic” choice do you want then?

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I don’t know about Peyton Manning honestly as a coach but if the best you can do is Frazier, Reich and Campbell it’s not a good time to be a colts fan.  If you can honestly say any of them get you excited I think your lying to yourself. The best you can say about any of them is that they might be head coaching material. Seriously if anyone wants to make a serious argument that any of these three losers are going to make a great head coach I’d love to hear it.

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4 minutes ago, threeflight said:

As I have stated over and over, Manning is an idea.

 

A better idea than Leslie Frazier. Or Frank Reich.

 

I mean cmon, Frank Reich has been an assistant for years now, in fact with the Colts, and not until this year with the Eagles has be even gotten a mention as a possible HC. He didn't even call their plays. Now all of a sudden he is a guru??

 

That is called a spin job my friends.  

:facepalm:

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Just now, Andrew86 said:

I don’t know about Peyton Manning honestly as a coach but if the best you can do is Frazier, Reich and Campbell it’s not a good time to be a colts fan.  If you can honestly say any of them get you excited I think your lying to yourself. The best you can say about any of them is that they might be head coaching material. Seriously if anyone wants to make a serious argument that any of these three losers are going to make a great head coach I’d love to hear it.

Then you didn’t go through the early days of Frank Kush etc.

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Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

What “realistic” do you want then?

My point is, if you can't find the guy you really want, who you really TRULY want and feel great about, don't just hire a guy just to hire a guy.  

 

Frank Reich has never shown me special.  Either as a player or a coach.  Neither has Frazier.


But there are guys out there.

 

I will tell you who did show me special.  Sean McVay.  The Redskins have perennially had a boring and at best average offense for YEARS.  He comes in and all of a sudden they are scoring points like crazy.  He took the same group of guys who were scoring 15 points a game in the NFC east and turned them into a mini chargers team of the 80s.

 

You could see that "whoa.....this guy has something.  That is not normal.  Who is this guy?"

 

Which is why he then went to the Rams and did what he did.  

 

Until you see something like that?  Don't waste your time.

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1 minute ago, threeflight said:

As I have stated over and over, Manning is an idea.

 

A better idea than Leslie Frazier. Or Frank Reich.

 

Where there is one outside the box idea, there are others.  Certainly better than what we are hearing.

 

I mean cmon, Frank Reich has been an assistant for years now, in fact with the Colts, and not until this year with the Eagles has be even gotten a mention as a possible HC. He didn't even call their plays. Now all of a sudden he is a guru??

 

That is called a spin job my friends.  

 

No, this is called you not understanding how the normal progression of a coach in the NFL goes.  How long was Bruce Arians an assistant before getting a HC gig?  Andy Reid began his coaching career in 1983...got his first HC gig in Philly in 1999.  Pederson and Reich have been coaching about the same amount of time and Pederson only just got his shot with Philly...oh and he didn't even call KC's plays.  Everything you've said about Reich could be said about Pederson.

 

Bellichick started his coaching career in 1975.  First HC gig was in '91.

Dungy started his coaching career in 1981.   First HC gig was in 1996.

 

 

You have ABSOLUTELY NO idea if Manning is a better coaching candidate than Reich.  Or Frazier for that matter.  This is all about you wanting a name you're familiar with.

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1 hour ago, threeflight said:

Bringing in Manning as an apprentice coach would be an all time home run imo. It would invigorate the fan base to no end. Let him learn for a year under a veteran coach and then give him the reigns.  

 

Peyton is one of the smartest football men I have ever come across.  If most of the 32 *s we see now as coach can make it to the NFL, I am 99% certain that Manning can not just be a coach, but a damn good one. 

 

I am not saying he should be the coach.  I am saying it is an idea, and certainly a better one than what is being thrown there now.

 

What I am saying is if the best we can do is Leslie Frazier, it is time to take a time out and wait until you REALLY get the man you want, rather than settling.

 

Peyton F Manning isn't coaching a team...he's owning one.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Ummm...that is exactly what I said 4 posts above.

 

My point about the face horse analogy was not about physical attributes.  It was about if you truly want special, you have to not be afraid to go for it...and pay for it.

Qualities that make a race horse great and a coach great are very very different. Just like qualities that make a player great and a coach great are very very different. Sometimes they over lap...and they have both but then it comes down to does the player want to be a great coach as much as they wanted to be a great player. Manning has shown he has no desire (at this time) to be a great coach. So I've seen many many great sales people get promoted to managers and why do they not succeed? Because the attributes in sales is not the same as managing people to sell. Why if they were great could they not teach, mentor, and lead others to be great? Sure there are a special few that do but I see way more of the other. Unless you have someone that is driven and their heart is in it to make themselves great at something it doesn't matter how talented they are...it won't happen. Could Manning be a great coach...possibly...but he has to put into practice and learn the pieces necessary to add to what he has already to be great...and that means putting in the time and experience coaching to learn how to do it. He is a driven person... I think he could do it...but his heart isn't in it..so no..right now I don't think he would. Same with Nick Saban....he washed out of the NFL...he has no desire to teach grown men...he likes to mold young people....probably also likes having the most talent and working from a competitive advantage against every foe...why give that crutch up. What matters is he doesn't want to be an NFL coach...neither does Meyers...else they would float their name out there to show they are interested. We just got rid of a coach that wasn't all in....so lets hire one that isn't all in to coach us now?  So I come back to what we have now....guys that ARE interested...fully invested in being a great NFL coach...with quality attributes we are looking for. Let's find the one that matches up to what fits us and help them become the next great coach. I don't see any Joe Montana's, Peyton Mannings, Ray Lewis's asking to coach....I don't see any Bill Cowers or Jimmy Johnsons asking to come back and coach.....so who exactly is this magical coach we should get?

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Just now, threeflight said:

My point is, if you can't find the guy you really want, who you really TRULY want and feel great about, don't just hire a guy just to hire a guy.  

 

Frank Reich has never shown me special.  Either as a player or a coach.  Neither has Frazier.


But there are guys out there.

 

I will tell you who did show me special.  Sean McVay.  The Redskins have perennially had a boring and at best average offense for YEARS.  He comes in and all of a sudden they are scoring points like crazy.  He took the same group of guys who were scoring 15 points a game in the NFC east and turned them into a mini chargers team of the 80s.

 

You could see that "whoa.....this guy has something.  That is not normal.  Who is this guy?"

 

Which is why he then went to the Rams and did what he did.  

 

Until you see something like that?  Don't waste your time.

He had less experience than DC and LF and the same as FR. So no one knows   

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7 minutes ago, threeflight said:

As I have stated over and over, Manning is an idea.

 

A better idea than Leslie Frazier. Or Frank Reich.

 

Where there is one outside the box idea, there are others.  Certainly better than what we are hearing.

 

I mean cmon, Frank Reich has been an assistant for years now, in fact with the Colts, and not until this year with the Eagles has he even gotten a mention as a possible HC. He didn't even call their plays. Now all of a sudden he is a guru??

 

That is called a spin job my friends.  

 

No one has called him a guru. 

 

THAT is called a strawman my friend.

 

It doesn't  matter that Manning is an idea because it's not realistic.    Having Bill Belichick coach the Colts is also an idea.   But it's not happening either.

 

Our situation is not good.   But that doesn't mean we won't find a good coach.

 

 

 

 

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