Is this an early HC tell?

[Indeee]

This is actually how the Roto post reads:

 

The Colts have been granted permission to interview Texans DC Mike Vrabel for their defensive coordinator vacancy.

Vrabel was promoted from linebackers coach to defensive coordinator before the 2017 season. His defense was absolutely wretched across the board, but Vrabel has been given a pass due to numerous personnel injuries. What matters most to NFL decision makers is the perception of Vrabel, and he is highly regarded in league circles. He is also getting interest for the Lions' coaching vacancy.

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

If they haven't they will we will have an all new coaching staff next season.

Not if the new coach wants them. You cant assume all will be fired.

[hoosierhawk]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Nope. Assistant is assistant. The current team would have to give permission.

 

And I dislike part of that, because position coach to coordinator is not a lateral move, but teams block their assistants from interviewing for coordinator positions all the time. The Packers have been blocking Alex Van Pelt, their QB coach, from interviewing for coordinator jobs for a couple years. And that especially sucks for him because even if he eventually becomes the Packers OC, McCarthy still calls the plays.

you have more knowledge about this than I'm do but from what I have gathered by giving a coach the title of Assistant Head Coach does constitute a promotion. Read it earlier today but now ?I can't find it.

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, Indeee said:

This is actually how the Roto post reads:

 

The Colts have been granted permission to interview Texans DC Mike Vrabel for their defensive coordinator vacancy.

Vrabel was promoted from linebackers coach to defensive coordinator before the 2017 season. His defense was absolutely wretched across the board, but Vrabel has been given a pass due to numerous personnel injuries. What matters most to NFL decision makers is the perception of Vrabel, and he is highly regarded in league circles. He is also getting interest for the Lions' coaching vacancy.

Yeah that’s a typo you can tell from the last sentence because the Lions are also going to interview their current DC for their Head Coach’s job so they don’t have a DC vancancy at the moment.  

[NewColtsFan]

35 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Just maybe Ballard is going to pick the coordinators?  I don't know but my response to you was you said a coordinator cant leave for the same position. No more. no less.

 

Ballard is likely going to help pick the coordinator.   But he's not going to be doing that NOW.

 

Why would he interview a possible coordinator that his new HC might not want?   The new HC will have his own ideas for the coordinator spots.

 

Vrabel is highly thought of.   Just because most people here don't think of him as a HC candidate, doesn't mean he's not one.   He is.    If Ballard is interviewing him it's for the HC position and not the DC spot.

 

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Ballard is likely going to help pick the coordinator.   But he's not going to be doing that NOW.

 

Why would he interview a possible coordinator that his new HC might not want?   The new HC will have his own ideas for the coordinator spots.

 

Vrabel is highly thought of.   Just because most people here don't think of him as a HC candidate, doesn't mean he's not one.   He is.    If Ballard is interviewing him it's for the HC position and not the DC spot.

 

There are a lot of coordinators and assistants who haven't been fired yet. It wouldn't surprise me if some of those are kept. If Luck said he wanted to keep his QB coach I highly doubt he would be fired. I just used that as an example.

The strides the defense made this year may warrant some of those coaches to be considered.

All this really does is show what hiring a new head coach involves.

I feel for all the ones involved and their families.

[Two_pound]

Since many of you on here know how much disdain I have for the pats and anyone connected to them in anyway, I would like to see the Colts hire Vrable as head coach. Of all current assistants anywhere in the nfl he deserves a shot as head coach more than anyone. He has tremendous leadership qualities and was a tireless worker as a player for both the steelers and pats. He knows what it takes.

[NewColtsFan]

36 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Nope. Assistant is assistant. The current team would have to give permission.

 

And I dislike part of that, because position coach to coordinator is not a lateral move, but teams block their assistants from interviewing for coordinator positions all the time. The Packers have been blocking Alex Van Pelt, their QB coach, from interviewing for coordinator jobs for a couple years. And that especially sucks for him because even if he eventually becomes the Packers OC, McCarthy still calls the plays.

 

I'm sorry,  but you have me confused.      You stated in a previous post that teams can't block assistants from interviewing for a job that's a promotion and then you write about the Packers blocking their assistant coach from interviewing for a promotion.       So, I'm lost with what you're trying to say....

 

Here is a link that was posted earlier in ths thread which backs up the concept that teams can NOT block an assistant from interviewing for a position that is a promotion.      If that's true, (and I think it is)  then how is Green Bay doing that with Van Pelt?     Feels like there's more to this AVP story than meets the eye?     

 

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/1/10/14038902/nfl-teams-hiring-new-head-coach-must-follow-rules

 

It's the 2nd rule listed, so you don't have to scroll down too far.

 

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

There are a lot of coordinators and assistants who haven't been fired yet. It wouldn't surprise me if some of those are kept. If Luck said he wanted to keep his QB coach I highly doubt he would be fired. I just used that as an example.

The strides the defense made this year may warrant some of those coaches to be considered.

All this really does is show what hiring a new head coach involves.

I feel for all the ones involved and their families.

 

Yes...

 

Life in the NFL for coaches is brutal.    Even with the money,  it's still a very hard life.     At his press conference today, Bruce Arians said the Big Moment for him was when his wife told him that their son was turning 40 this year.    And Arians said he had no idea and the news stunned him.     Where did all the years go?

 

And life for an assistant coach can be especially terrible.    Not only do you not see your family,  but if your team does poorly and the HC gets fired,   you could lose your job even if you did a good job because the new HC wants to bring in "his guys"...    coaches he knows...       and so, you have to sell the house,  pack up everything, pull the kids from school and move again.   

 

That's a brutal life and not everyone is cut out for it.      Very high high's but very low low's...    The money only makes it so tolerable.    

 

[21isSuperman]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

It's obviously a typo. For it to be accurate, two very uncommon situations would have to be true in this case.

 

First, teams don't interview for coordinator jobs until they've hired a head coach, unless they are the Cowboys.

 

Second, teams don't give assistant coaches permission to interview for assistant positions, especially inside the division. 

[richard pallo]

Just a far out thought but If O'Brien remains the head coach maybe he isn't happy with Vrabel.  Maybe they don't mesh for some reason and he will let him interview for a lateral position.  He could always hire another another DC.  The report does spell out defensive coordinator.  That's a big typo.  With all the interviews being bantered about they are for HC positions and with all the people being mentioned so far for the Colts opening this one did come out of left field for me.  He seems like such a long shot to be a serious HC candidate for us when you look at his competition.  Maybe Ballard is intrigued by him and he plans on talking to McDaniels about him when he asks McDaniels about who he is thinking about for DC.  I can see Ballard staying one step ahead in this project. 

[csmopar]

33 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm sorry,  but you have me confused.      You stated in a previous post that teams can't block assistants from interviewing for a job that's a promotion and then you write about the Packers blocking their assistant coach from interviewing for a promotion.       So, I'm lost with what you're trying to say....

 

Here is a link that was posted earlier in ths thread which backs up the concept that teams can NOT block an assistant from interviewing for a position that is a promotion.      If that's true, (and I think it is)  then how is Green Bay doing that with Van Pelt?     Feels like there's more to this AVP story than meets the eye?     

 

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/1/10/14038902/nfl-teams-hiring-new-head-coach-must-follow-rules

 

It's the 2nd rule listed, so you don't have to scroll down too far.

 

I was just doing some research into that. It's because the league defines all coaches other than the head coach as an "assistant coach" whether that coach is a positional coach or a play calling coordinator, they're still all assistants to the head coach. Which is why the Packers can continue to deny interviews.

 

at least based on what I'm reading so far

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I was just doing some research into that. It's because the league defines all coaches other than the head coach as an "assistant coach" whether that coach is a positional coach or a play calling coordinator, they're still all assistants to the head coach. Which is why the Packers can continue to deny interviews.

 

at least based on what I'm reading so far

 

Huh?     Wasn't this your link?

 

Here's the section that's applicable to the Green Bay situation....     I'm cutting and pasting.

 

 

Assistant coaches not in the playoffs

Teams can interview any assistant coaches from other teams who are not in the playoffs. They must, however, request permission if a coach is under contract with another team.

 

Teams can block a candidate from interviewing for a position that would be a lateral move, but can’t stop assistant coaches from interviewing for a position that is a promotion.

[Superman]

35 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm sorry,  but you have me confused.      You stated in a previous post that teams can't block assistants from interviewing for a job that's a promotion and then you write about the Packers blocking their assistant coach from interviewing for a promotion.       So, I'm lost with what you're trying to say....

 

Here is a link that was posted earlier in ths thread which backs up the concept that teams can NOT block an assistant from interviewing for a position that is a promotion.      If that's true, (and I think it is)  then how is Green Bay doing that with Van Pelt?     Feels like there's more to this AVP story than meets the eye?     

 

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/1/10/14038902/nfl-teams-hiring-new-head-coach-must-follow-rules

 

It's the 2nd rule listed, so you don't have to scroll down too far.

 

 

I didn't say unless it's a promotion, and if I did, I didn't mean to. I consider going from position coach to coordinator a promotion, but the NFL doesn't require a team to allow a coach to interview with another team unless it's for a head coaching job. 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, hoosierhawk said:

you have more knowledge about this than I'm do but from what I have gathered by giving a coach the title of Assistant Head Coach does constitute a promotion. Read it earlier today but now ?I can't find it.

 

Post whatever you find, but I don't think that's accurate. 

[csmopar]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

Huh?     Wasn't this your link?

 

Here's the section that's applicable to the Green Bay situation....     I'm cutting and pasting.

 

 

Assistant coaches not in the playoffs

Teams can interview any assistant coaches from other teams who are not in the playoffs. They must, however, request permission if a coach is under contract with another team.

 

Teams can block a candidate from interviewing for a position that would be a lateral move, but can’t stop assistant coaches from interviewing for a position that is a promotion.

Correct.  But what I think you're not grasping and frankly, I'm having trouble doing the same is this language about the promotion. If the league says that a QB coach and a Offensive coordinator are both on the same level, I.E. both are assistant coaches, then the only positions they could interview for without being able to be blocked would be Head Coach, GM or some other front office job. 

[BOTT]

This thread was killed by boredom

[csmopar]

15 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I didn't say unless it's a promotion, and if I did, I didn't mean to. I consider going from position coach to coordinator a promotion, but the NFL doesn't require a team to allow a coach to interview with another team unless it's for a head coaching job. 

According to several places in nfl.com though it is vague, any coach other than the head coach is an assistant coach, the exact title doesn't matter as the league views them all as being assistants and on the same level. 

 

And I could be wrong but that's how I'm understanding it as of now. Which makes little sense as I thought a position coach like a QB coach would be a tier before a coordinator.

 

 

one thing to note with Ballard coming from KC, KC has 25 assistant coaches, including red zone coaches, two minute drill coaches etc. I think I saw that we had 16 total. I could see us following KCs formula 

[csmopar]

10 minutes ago, BOTT said:

This thread was killed by boredom

There was already another thread with the topic about this guy being interviewed so I guess this one just got derailed.

[NewColtsFan]

16 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I didn't say unless it's a promotion, and if I did, I didn't mean to. I consider going from position coach to coordinator a promotion, but the NFL doesn't require a team to allow a coach to interview with another team unless it's for a head coaching job. 

 

????

 

According to this,  your comment is not correct.     Do you have anything to support your statement?      Here is the key passage from a link CSMopar provided....

 

 

Teams can block a candidate from interviewing for a position that would be a lateral move, but can’t stop assistant coaches from interviewing for a position that is a promotion.

[hoosierhawk]

20 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Post whatever you find, but I don't think that's accurate. 

I think Sup that what NewColtFan posted is the answer. An Assistant Head Coach/OC is a promotion over a OC.

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I am no too sure that is correct. There has been plenty of coordinators leave one team to take the same job on other teams.

 

Not if they were under contract.  Once a contract is up, they can do as they please.

 

2 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

And they can't unless it's a promotion like I said 

 

Actually, more than that.  As Supes has said, any coach that is not a HC is an assistant, and can only interview freely if considered for a HC position.  I think at one time offering a 'promotion' could get a guy into the interview room and a deal hammered out.  It's not true anymore.

 

2 hours ago, HectorRoberts said:

Would defensive coordinator/ assistant head coach count as a promotion?

 

Once upon a time, I think yes, not now these days.

[Superman]

29 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

????

 

According to this,  your comment is not correct.     Do you have anything to support your statement?      Here is the key passage from a link CSMopar provided....

 

 

Teams can block a candidate from interviewing for a position that would be a lateral move, but can’t stop assistant coaches from interviewing for a position that is a promotion.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-a-fix-to-the-nfls-tired-policy-of-blocking-coaches-from-interviews/amp/

 

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2010/1/14/1249310/rules-pertaining-to-hiring-nfl

 

Two links with good information. 

 

Also, if you google "NFL anti tampering policy pdf dawgtalkers," the first result is a PDF link to an official policy from the NFL from 2009. Page 7 says this:

 

 "Under Contract After Season. If an assistant coach’s playing season, 
including postseason if applicable (excluding Pro Bowl), is over and he is 
under contract to his club for the succeeding season or seasons, one of the 
provisions below—“Head-Coaching Opportunity” or “Lateral Move”—
whichever is applicable, must be observed: 
1. Two Tiers of Coaching Staffs. For purposes of this Anti-Tampering Policy, 
each coaching staff is divided into two tiers: (1) head coach, and (2) all assistant 
coaches. 
Although each individual club is permitted to use whatever structure and titles it 
desires for its coaching staff, the two tiers described here will be adhered to for 
administration of this Policy.

 

...

 

3. Lateral Move. If a club is interested in discussing an assistant coaching 
position with an assistant coach who is contractually obligated to another 
club at any time prior to the opening of the employer club’s training 
camp, it will be considered a lateral move, and the employer club is under 
no obligation to grant the coach the opportunity to discuss the position 
with the interested club. At the discretion of the employer club, however, 
such permission may be voluntarily granted."

 

I'd link but I'm on mobile and can't copy the link directly. 

[csmopar]

22 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

I think Sup that what NewColtFan posted is the answer. An Assistant Head Coach/OC is a promotion over a OC.

Nope, it's not.... according to NFL dot com,  any coach that is not a Head Coach is deemed to be an ASSISTANT COACH. Does not matter if that is a towel boy coach or the OC it's still an Assistant coach . 

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-a-fix-to-the-nfls-tired-policy-of-blocking-coaches-from-interviews/amp/

 

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2010/1/14/1249310/rules-pertaining-to-hiring-nfl

 

Two links with good information. 

 

Also, if you google "NFL anti tampering policy pdf dawgtalkers," the first result is a PDF link to an official policy from the NFL from 2009. Page 7 says this:

 

 "Under Contract After Season. If an assistant coach’s playing season, 
including postseason if applicable (excluding Pro Bowl), is over and he is 
under contract to his club for the succeeding season or seasons, one of the 
provisions below—“Head-Coaching Opportunity” or “Lateral Move”—
whichever is applicable, must be observed: 
1. Two Tiers of Coaching Staffs. For purposes of this Anti-Tampering Policy, 
each coaching staff is divided into two tiers: (1) head coach, and (2) all assistant 
coaches. 
Although each individual club is permitted to use whatever structure and titles it 
desires for its coaching staff, the two tiers described here will be adhered to for 
administration of this Policy.

 

...

 

3. Lateral Move. If a club is interested in discussing an assistant coaching 
position with an assistant coach who is contractually obligated to another 
club at any time prior to the opening of the employer club’s training 
camp, it will be considered a lateral move, and the employer club is under 
no obligation to grant the coach the opportunity to discuss the position 
with the interested club. At the discretion of the employer club, however, 
such permission may be voluntarily granted."

 

I'd link but I'm on mobile and can't copy the link directly. 

That's what I found as well. 

[csmopar]

32 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

????

 

According to this,  your comment is not correct.     Do you have anything to support your statement?      Here is the key passage from a link CSMopar provided....

 

 

Teams can block a candidate from interviewing for a position that would be a lateral move, but can’t stop assistant coaches from interviewing for a position that is a promotion.

Again.... ALL COACHES that are not the Head Coach are assistant coaches..... therefore any move between position coach and coordinator would be a lateral move that a club can block.  Not sure why you keep ignoring me telling you that. 

[coltsnation]

Pls don't take any of these interviews too seriously, ballard keeping an open mind.

[NewColtsFan]

16 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Again.... ALL COACHES that are not the Head Coach are assistant coaches..... therefore any move between position coach and coordinator would be a lateral move that a club can block.  Not sure why you keep ignoring me telling you that. 

 

You're not sure why?

 

Because the link YOU first provided doesn't say that.    That's why.

 

Now, these NEW links you and Superman have provided cleared that up.   Turns out the first link you provided is wrong.   Not your fault, no way of knowing. 

 

But the the situation is now cleared up.   Frankly I'm stunned at the NFL rule.

 

All assistants are assistants regardless of whether they're coordinators or position coaches?   Seriously?    I think that sucks and is just wrong.   But I don't get a vote...

 

[csmopar]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You're not sure why?

 

Because the link YOU first provided doesn't say that.    That's why.

 

Now, these NEW links you and Superman have provided cleared that up.   Turns out the first link you provided is wrong.   Not your fault, no way of knowing. 

 

But the the situation is now cleared up.   Frankly I'm stunned at the NFL rule.

 

All assistants are assistants regardless of whether they're coordinators or position coaches?   Seriously?    I think that sucks and is just wrong.   But I don't get a vote...

 

The first link isn't wrong. It says they can't be blocked if the position is for a promotion. It just doesn't clarify that there is only two tiers

[Andrew Luck fan club]

i'd barf if this guy got the job.

[Superman]

26 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

But the the situation is now cleared up.   Frankly I'm stunned at the NFL rule.

 

All assistants are assistants regardless of whether they're coordinators or position coaches?   Seriously?    I think that sucks and is just wrong.   But I don't get a vote...

 

 

Really that's what my original point was. I don't consider going from position coach to coordinator to be a lateral move, but per the rule, it is. 

 

The reason why is to avoid any ambiguity that goes along with made up job titles. Like "Coordinator of the Defensive Backs." 

 

They cleared up the GM rule recently also, making it clear that a promotion includes a job with full roster control. 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Really that's what my original point was. I don't consider going from position coach to coordinator to be a lateral move, but per the rule, it is. 

 

The reason why is to avoid any ambiguity that goes along with made up job titles. Like "Coordinator of the Defensive Backs." 

 

They cleared up the GM rule recently also, making it clear that a promotion includes a job with full roster control. 

So basically the owners made these rules to control the "coordinators" from moving while under contract? With the exception of a head coaching job?

[HungarianColtsFan]

8 hours ago, NorthernBlue said:

Have they formally fired Ted yet?

 

 

No, and if I recall Irsay and Ballard press conference right, they told the media, that they let the new HC set up his staff. 

[Valpo2004]

I don't see why Vrabel would move from Coordinating a defense with Clowney and Watt (when he's healthy) to coordinating the Colts defense.  

 

On top of that it doesn't makes sense that we would bring in a DC without a HC.  HC would probably want to have a say in who his DC is.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

14 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I am no too sure that is correct. There has been plenty of coordinators leave one team to take the same job on other teams.

 

Gruden’s expected to take Cincy’s DC to Oakland with him, so it’s definitely not unprecedented.

[ColtsBlueFL]

14 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

So basically the owners made these rules to control the "coordinators" from moving while under contract? With the exception of a head coaching job?

 

Essentially, it seems, yes. Keeps contract coaches at home. Even if other teams offer more money to do the same job.

 

4 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Gruden’s expected to take Cincy’s DC to Oakland with him, so it’s definitely not unprecedented.

 

Does the Cincy DC contract expire at the end of the Bengals season? If not, has Cincy granted Raiders permission to interview the guy?  Even Jon Gruden can’t go and cherry pick his coaching staff from the top levels from each team if they are under contract.

[Scott Pennock]

He could be interviewed for the HC position and be hired as the DC so long as if he's hired, he has the additional title of assistant head coach - which is a promotion. 

[Superman]

15 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

So basically the owners made these rules to control the "coordinators" from moving while under contract? With the exception of a head coaching job?

 

To protect coaching staffs from being poached, period. And I get that, but it's overly restrictive, IMO, and actually prevents coaches from making career advancement.

 

Of course, if a team wants a coach badly enough, they can offer compensation for him. So if we really, really wanted a position coach or a coordinator from another team for a similar position on the Colts, we could offer the other team a draft pick or a player in exchange for the coach. But that basically never happens. Last trade I'm aware of for a coach at any level was Gruden.

[Superman]

5 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Gruden’s expected to take Cincy’s DC to Oakland with him, so it’s definitely not unprecedented.

 

That's a fluid situation, both with Oakland and Cincinnati. Their entire coaching staff might be gone. 

[Buddy Lee]

When do contracts expire? At the end of a particular team's games for the year? On a particular date on the calendar? Has Vrable's contract expired?

 

The biggest thing against this possibility being likely is that I really don't see Ballard hiring a coordinator before the new HC can be involved.