How many above avg guys do we have on D?

[Trace Pyott]

I was thinking about our needs and trying to compare our defensive needs to our past Peyton manning teams. If we compare the two based on who the above avg guys are and assume we keep them, then we will know about how many holes we need to fill to get quality defensive play. Going player by player, position by position, who are out above avg talent?  I would say hooker, Anderson, Hankins,Simon lol that's about it and some of those guys are iffy. I'm sure there might be more but it's 6am and my mind is still foggy lol. Compare this to let's say the teams of 2004, or 2005 how many positions do we have above avg talent?  We could also do this on offense but that would be offensive hehe and I don't want to make this thread too depressing lol. Have a good week everyone! 

[csmopar]

right now, zero.

[DougDew]

Looks like Henry is starting to fully recover from the knee.   He had a strip sack the game before last.

 

I say Anderson, Simon, and Hankins.  I think a lot of GMs would like to have those players.

[Colt Overseas]

I say right now above average guys would be Anderson, Simon, Hankins and Hooker. Last season we had Geathers too, so hopefully he can return to his 2016 form in the future. Hooker can become a high quality starter if he stays injury free. 

 

Average starters for me are Sheard, Woods and this year so far Melvin. I'm not a big fan of Fairley as others, he is just ok for me, more like a backup. Hunt could be an average starter.

 

Everyone else is below average. We don't have a high quality or elite talent. Bostic and Morrison are very poor quality starters and investment next of season at LB is absolutely critical. The draft is good for LBs thankfully.

[K-148]

Acc. to PFF.

NT: Woods (82.2), Stewart (46.5).

DE: Anderson (79.7), Hunt (75.4).

DT: Hankins (83.4), Ridgeway (49.6).

SLB: Simon (77.8), Mingo (70.0).

RushLB: Sheard (82.9), Basham (50.4).

Mike: Morrison (36.3).

Will: Bostic (38.7), George (72.5).

SS: Farley (72.6), Green (45.9).

FS: Hooker (77.3), Butler (47.1).

LCB: Melvin (86.4), Wilson (48.8), Milton (40.8).

RCB: Davis (47.2), Desir (45.1), Hairston (56.8), Moore (38.7).

 

[ColtsBlitz]

Woods, Hankins, Anderson, Simon, Sheard, Hooker, Hairston, Melvin, and Wilson, but Wilson never gets playing time so we never get to see how he is progressing. I have to believe he is better than Davis is playing. 

 

That's 9 players I think are at least average.  If we upgrade one ILB, play George more and get another corner, when we get a new defensive coordinator maybe we have a good defense for the first time, almost ever. 

 

To me, offensive line is a much bigger problem than anything right now. We should probably draft a WR this year, even if it's in the later rounds. 

[richard pallo]

2 hours ago, K-148 said:

Acc. to PFF.

NT: Woods (82.2), Stewart (46.5).

DE: Anderson (79.7), Hunt (75.4).

DT: Hankins (83.4), Ridgeway (49.6).

SLB: Simon (77.8), Mingo (70.0).

RushLB: Sheard (82.9), Basham (50.4).

Mike: Morrison (36.3).

Will: Bostic (38.7), George (72.5).

SS: Farley (72.6), Green (45.9).

FS: Hooker (77.3), Butler (47.1).

LCB: Melvin (86.4), Wilson (48.8), Milton (40.8).

RCB: Davis (47.2), Desir (45.1), Hairston (56.8), Moore (38.7).

 

According to these rankings we wouldn't be in dire straights if we traded Davis. 

[chad72]

6 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

According to these rankings we wouldn't be in dire straights if we traded Davis. 

 

That would be correct, that is why it makes a LOT of sense from so many angles that we get something for Vontae now before letting him walk next year with our youth movement.

[throwing BBZ]

5 hours ago, Trace Pyott said:

I was thinking about our needs and trying to compare our defensive needs to our past Peyton manning teams. If we compare the two based on who the above avg guys are and assume we keep them, then we will know about how many holes we need to fill to get quality defensive play. Going player by player, position by position, who are out above avg talent?  I would say hooker, Anderson, Hankins,Simon lol that's about it and some of those guys are iffy. I'm sure there might be more but it's 6am and my mind is still foggy lol. Compare this to let's say the teams of 2004, or 2005 how many positions do we have above avg talent?  We could also do this on offense but that would be offensive hehe and I don't want to make this thread too depressing lol. Have a good week everyone! 

 

 A very good pass rusher, 2 good ILB'ers, and a hammer, in the box safety, and at least one CB.  away from being very stout.
 Geathers may be the SS. Counting on Wilson to be a solid CB.

  Basham had a little something going on yesterday. Crossing my fingers. So did Mingo.    go colts
 

[Rally5]

3 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

That would be correct, that is why it makes a LOT of sense from so many angles that we get something for Vontae now before letting him walk next year with our youth movement.

Does that metric contemplate him going up against 1's v 2's and 3's?  I noticed we moved him to AJ Green after the TD catch...he did a nice job on Green all day when covered him and AJ is elite by any measure.  I don't know how these grades work?  I'm not sure I buy into trading a #1 cover corner in hopes of finding another, how does that net benefit the team, especially when first-round success rate is about 35%? Doesn't that still leave a hole on the other side?  Trading make sense when you have leverage at a position (depth), do we have depth at corner?  Frankly, I'd re-sign him, let's not create more holes to fill on this team....

[Trace Pyott]

6 hours ago, K-148 said:

Acc. to PFF.

NT: Woods (82.2), Stewart (46.5).

DE: Anderson (79.7), Hunt (75.4).

DT: Hankins (83.4), Ridgeway (49.6).

SLB: Simon (77.8), Mingo (70.0).

RushLB: Sheard (82.9), Basham (50.4).

Mike: Morrison (36.3).

Will: Bostic (38.7), George (72.5).

SS: Farley (72.6), Green (45.9).

FS: Hooker (77.3), Butler (47.1).

LCB: Melvin (86.4), Wilson (48.8), Milton (40.8).

RCB: Davis (47.2), Desir (45.1), Hairston (56.8), Moore (38.7).

 

What exactly is avg according to Pff? I'm not real familiar with their ratings system. 

[ClaytonColt]

There's quite a lot of very average players on the defense. 

 

Unfortunately the couple who are probably slightly above average for their position (Hankins and Woods) play roles which have limited game changing ability.

 

Hooker probably has the potential to be above average but the sample size is very small at the moment.

[BullsColtsFan1]

Here's my personal opinion.  Includes a few who are injured. 

 

Hooker, Geathers, Anderson, Hankins, Woods, Simon, Sheard and Melvin.

[K-148]

28 minutes ago, Trace Pyott said:

What exactly is avg according to Pff? I'm not real familiar with their ratings system. 

Average: 70-80.

[will426]

10 hours ago, K-148 said:

Acc. to PFF.

NT: Woods (82.2), Stewart (46.5).

DE: Anderson (79.7), Hunt (75.4).

DT: Hankins (83.4), Ridgeway (49.6).

SLB: Simon (77.8), Mingo (70.0).

RushLB: Sheard (82.9), Basham (50.4).

Mike: Morrison (36.3).

Will: Bostic (38.7), George (72.5).

SS: Farley (72.6), Green (45.9).

FS: Hooker (77.3), Butler (47.1).

LCB: Melvin (86.4), Wilson (48.8), Milton (40.8).

RCB: Davis (47.2), Desir (45.1), Hairston (56.8), Moore (38.7).

 

My god if this doesn't prove we need to stop Zone Coverage idk what is...every corner that's not Melvin sucks in Zone I've been saying this all year and sheesh those ratings show it lol 

[Trace Pyott]

Can someone tell me what the primary job of the Mike and will is?  So basically Morrison and Boston are hot garbage that a practice squad player could prob replicate based on their ratings??

[Trace Pyott]

I meant to say Bostic btw. Also, if a stud MLB appears in the draft when do most teams pick one up?  For instance an amazing qb will be picked top pick but an amazing punter will be picked in a later round. Do teams waste top 10 picks on MLB or if we had our eye on one would it be a case where we traded our top 10 pick to get more picks and pick him up later??

[crazycolt1]

If this defense had average players across the board they would seem so bad. We have a few good players but the ones who are below average drag the whole unit down.

[lance_m8]

5 hours ago, will426 said:

My god if this doesn't prove we need to stop Zone Coverage idk what is...every corner that's not Melvin sucks in Zone I've been saying this all year and sheesh those ratings show it lol 

Vontae and Wilson seem to be more man coverage corners cant blame players for struggling in the scheme they are put in Melvin his been a pleasant surprise 

[Finball]

4 hours ago, Trace Pyott said:

I meant to say Bostic btw. Also, if a stud MLB appears in the draft when do most teams pick one up?  For instance an amazing qb will be picked top pick but an amazing punter will be picked in a later round. Do teams waste top 10 picks on MLB or if we had our eye on one would it be a case where we traded our top 10 pick to get more picks and pick him up later??

 

Kuechly wnt 9th overall back in 2012. Panthers are probably not regretting taking him there.

 

Anthony Barr also went 9th overall but he was a pass rusher in college and not really a typical MLB at NFL either, though a stud off-ball LB.

 

No other off ball LB has gone in the top 10 this decade, other than Rolando McClain back in 2010.

 

However, there really hasn't been many stud MLB prospects coming out, not with tape and traits comparable to Kuechly. Jaylon Smith and Myles Jack could have gone if not for their unfortunate knee injuries. Foster could have gone if not for on/off-field issues.

 

But usually teams get their stud MLBs later in the draft.

 

Top 10: Kuechly

Mid 1st: Shazier (15th ovr), Mosley (17th ovr)

Late 1st: Hightower (25th ovr, if one counts him... I do)

2nd rounders: Eric Kendricks, Sean Lee (though he's been playing WLB to keep him on the field more instead of IR), Bobby Wagner

3rd rounder: Jordan Hicks

Late rounders: Danny Trevathan

[MackAttack]

Wish I could say Quincy 

[will426]

6 hours ago, lance_m8 said:

Vontae and Wilson seem to be more man coverage corners cant blame players for struggling in the scheme they are put in Melvin his been a pleasant surprise 

Last year we played more man and Melvin didn't turn out well this year we swapped and he's the only good thing unfortunately   but teds killing the def..the Inside backers are an issue in man but the corners aren't id take a few horrible catches allowed from our backers rather than playing Zone and having a breakdown in coverage every week while we play 10 yards off the receiver

[mahagga73]

Hankins is earning his money . Woods is playing well . Anderson. Simon . Hooker when he was healthy.  

[BlueShoe]

On 10/30/2017 at 7:36 AM, K-148 said:

Acc. to PFF.

NT: Woods (82.2), Stewart (46.5).

DE: Anderson (79.7), Hunt (75.4).

DT: Hankins (83.4), Ridgeway (49.6).

SLB: Simon (77.8), Mingo (70.0).

RushLB: Sheard (82.9), Basham (50.4).

Mike: Morrison (36.3).

Will: Bostic (38.7), George (72.5).

SS: Farley (72.6), Green (45.9).

FS: Hooker (77.3), Butler (47.1).

LCB: Melvin (86.4), Wilson (48.8), Milton (40.8).

RCB: Davis (47.2), Desir (45.1), Hairston (56.8), Moore (38.7).

 

 

Our coaches must have a lousy rating in their system. 

[IinD]

23 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Our coaches must have a lousy rating in their system. 

They're probably rated pfffffffff by pff

[Smoke317]

On 10/30/2017 at 8:36 AM, K-148 said:

Acc. to PFF.

NT: Woods (82.2), Stewart (46.5).

DE: Anderson (79.7), Hunt (75.4).

DT: Hankins (83.4), Ridgeway (49.6).

SLB: Simon (77.8), Mingo (70.0).

RushLB: Sheard (82.9), Basham (50.4).

Mike: Morrison (36.3).

Will: Bostic (38.7), George (72.5).

SS: Farley (72.6), Green (45.9).

FS: Hooker (77.3), Butler (47.1).

LCB: Melvin (86.4), Wilson (48.8), Milton (40.8).

RCB: Davis (47.2), Desir (45.1), Hairston (56.8), Moore (38.7).

 

Those ratings make you wonder how Morrison & Bostic keep getting so many snaps & George isn’t getting more to get experience???

[Finball]

PFF ratings matchup fairly well with my eye-test except for corners. I think Melvin is too high and Hairston has too low grade, maybe Wilson too. Farley maybe bit too high. But I don't have access to all-22.

[lance_m8]

On 10/31/2017 at 4:20 AM, will426 said:

Last year we played more man and Melvin didn't turn out well this year we swapped and he's the only good thing unfortunately   but teds killing the def..the Inside backers are an issue in man but the corners aren't id take a few horrible catches allowed from our backers rather than playing Zone and having a breakdown in coverage every week while we play 10 yards off the receiver

I think Melvin is all around a better player and next year when Wilson is in there and we get a coverage lb in the draft or FA we will do better but our guys play better physically they cant play the stupid prevent soft defense we like to run we might as well just add 3 points to the other teams score and go into halftime instead of playing the last 40 ish seconds

[Trace Pyott]

4 hours ago, lance_m8 said:

I think Melvin is all around a better player and next year when Wilson is in there and we get a coverage lb in the draft or FA we will do better but our guys play better physically they cant play the stupid prevent soft defense we like to run we might as well just add 3 points to the other teams score and go into halftime instead of playing the last 40 ish seconds

I know that drives me absolutely bonkers!  We could literally shut a team down completely for the entire first half but if they have the ball with over 30 seconds and a few timeouts it seems they score 80% of the time. Instead of doing what shut the team down for the entire half we go prevent and they make easy pass after easy pass. Sometimes I don't think NFL coaches are too bright and sometimes do things just because it's what everyone else does or it's in the unofficial "way to play the game". It drives me absolutely crazy. 

[will426]

7 hours ago, lance_m8 said:

I think Melvin is all around a better player and next year when Wilson is in there and we get a coverage lb in the draft or FA we will do better but our guys play better physically they cant play the stupid prevent soft defense we like to run we might as well just add 3 points to the other teams score and go into halftime instead of playing the last 40 ish seconds

All around better player idk I think him and Davis have thier faults Melvin last year in man coverage was horrible but this zone scheme has significantly helped him and on the downside it's completely removed Davis from the equation 

[lance_m8]

On 11/1/2017 at 2:41 PM, will426 said:

All around better player idk I think him and Davis have thier faults Melvin last year in man coverage was horrible but this zone scheme has significantly helped him and on the downside it's completely removed Davis from the equation 

Pick your poison 

[will426]

5 hours ago, lance_m8 said:

Pick your poison 

I'd take majority of our corners exceeding in Man Rather than just having Melvin doing good in Zone while everyone else play like crap lol

[OLD FAN MAN]

On 10/30/2017 at 10:07 PM, Trace Pyott said:

Can someone tell me what the primary job of the Mike and will is?  So basically Morrison and Boston are hot garbage that a practice squad player could prob replicate based on their ratings??

it is not to tackle for a gain, it is instead to tackle for a loss