Colt 2017 Offensive Line

[dw49]

I stole a couple comments fro Stampede Blue. Pretty obvious stuff , but I never thought about it. I'll also go a bit off topic and add the comment regarding DB's.

 

 "If you told me that the Colts would draft four offensive linemen in 2016, that three of them would end the 2016 season as promising starters, and that none of them would start in the 2017 season opener, I wouldn’t have believed you."

 

"If you told me that the Colts would use a fourth round draft pick and make one move in free agency to address their offensive line and that both of those players would be cut before the season started, I wouldn’t have believed it."

 

"If you told me that the Colts would draft three defensive backs in the 2017 NFL Draft and not only start none of them, but start second-year converted safety T.J. Green over second-year rookie cornerback Quincy Wilson, I wouldn’t have believed you."

[Creekside]

I believe!..... I believe!

[dodsworth]

2 steps forward and 1 step back, it's enough to make a fan want to vomit but let's see what happens as the season progresses. If Ballard can get the team in the right direction then there is hope for the future. 

[Blueblood23]

33 minutes ago, dw49 said:

I stole a couple comments fro Stampede Blue. Pretty obvious stuff , but I never thought about it. I'll also go a bit off topic and add the comment regarding DB's.

 

 "If you told me that the Colts would draft four offensive linemen in 2016, that three of them would end the 2016 season as promising starters, and that none of them would start in the 2017 season opener, I wouldn’t have believed you."

 

"If you told me that the Colts would use a fourth round draft pick and make one move in free agency to address their offensive line and that both of those players would be cut before the season started, I wouldn’t have believed it."

 

"If you told me that the Colts would draft three defensive backs in the 2017 NFL Draft and not only start none of them, but start second-year converted safety T.J. Green over second-year rookie cornerback Quincy Wilson, I wouldn’t have believed you."

I never thought about it like this, but it's truly unbelievable this has happened. WOW!

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

I never thought about it like this, but it's truly unbelievable this has happened. WOW!

my guess is pagano thinks Green can play it better when we all know thats not true

[NannyMcafee]

I really really hope that pagano is what's holding this team back, and it's not the fact that there are no worthy starters starting. One is fixed relatively quickly. The other not so much. 

 

Talk about needs? 

 

OL

TE

LB

CB

S

 

all of which have 3rd string talent starting. 

 

Man. It's like every year we hope that we are better than the last and they try and prove us wrong. 

 

Ill always be a colts fan. But that won't make me a happy one. 

[dodsworth]

27 minutes ago, csmopar said:

my guess is pagano thinks Green can play it better when we all know thats not true

Pagano holding onto the idea of Green being a superstar will be one of the many reasons our coach will be sent packing after this year.

[csmopar]

36 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

Pagano holding onto the idea of Green being a superstar will be one of the many reasons our coach will be sent packing after this year.

hopefully sooner

[OLD FAN MAN]

1 hour ago, NannyMcafee said:

I really really hope that pagano is what's holding this team back, and it's not the fact that there are no worthy starters starting. One is fixed relatively quickly. The other not so much. 

 

Talk about needs? 

 

OL

TE

LB

CB

S

 

all of which have 3rd string talent starting. 

 

Man. It's like every year we hope that we are better than the last and they try and prove us wrong. 

 

Ill always be a colts fan. But that won't make me a happy one. 

i agree we do have a lot of below average starters and it is hard to start draft picks on defense their first year

[chrisfarley]

it will be a bad game followed by a good game.  it keeps us Colts fans on our toes.  We will be on this board after the Cardinals game talking about how amazing our line was and all of this will go away (for a while).  It's how it goes in the NFL and lately with the Colts.  We will all be backing off the ledge from our armchair quarterback positions by end of game Sunday.  Game prediction: Colts 17  Cardinals 14   (AV with the winning kick !!!).   Now if I could figure out the # of sacks we will give up.....  I'm going with 1 sack (on a blitz)

Edit: And Hilton will be amazing

[B~Town]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

my guess is pagano thinks Green can play it better when we all know thats not true

 

43 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

Pagano holding onto the idea of Green being a superstar will be one of the many reasons our coach will be sent packing after this year.

 

I get the Pagano hate and all but a lot of moves are being put solely on him and that is simply not the case . 

 

Green has the ideal size, speed and length that general manager Chris Ballard likes in cornerbacks and during the latter's time with Kansas City, he actually wanted to select the Clemson product during the 2016 NFL Draft.

 

"Do I eventually think that's going to be his best position? Yes, I do," Ballard said. "Long term? I think his best position is corner, and I think he's going to be a very good one in time."

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

The Colts are incredibly unlucky with olineman. They do their due diligence in trying to acquire good ones but they either get hurt long term or just plain suck lol 

[TomDiggs]

This will be a rough year, but it will be an important year in building. Bond looked decent for a backup center in his first start. Good actually looked solid so it is unfortunate about his injury. At the end of the day, hopefully this forces Clark into a starting role. Let the kid take his lumps and let him develop on the fly. Keep him out there and hope he learns and improves and continues last season's arc before Luck is healthy enough to get back.

 

All game 1 cemented to me were things we all knew:

 

- This team cannot compete without Luck

- Missing arguably your best OL and your pivot with a backup QB in there is not ideal

- Tolzien is better served as a QB3 and not a direct backup QB

- Missing Vontae hurts just as much as missing Luck

 

 

Things I was pleasantly surprised about:

 

- Our run defense looked solid. Not sure if it will remain that way, but for one game it was nice to see lanes closed, the DL making stops and see runs stuffed and our defense not gashed

- Good and Bond looked solid and I did not expect that

- Al Woods surprised me as a solid presence on the DL

- Nate Hairston seemed to play some effective CB for us, which is a solid step in the right direction

 

[tikyle]

Blame Irsay.

 

Irsay has fostered this toxic culture of mistrust.  If Ballard is GM and he doesn't want Pagano as HC then he should hire the HC he wants.  What good is it if Ballard and Pagano are not on the same page.  There is no reason for TJ Green to start any game at CB over Quincy Wilson.  That is just laughable, I don't care if Wilson is a rookie, unless he's injured he's a better CB at this point in time than TJ Green.

 

As for the offensive line, who knows what's happening there.  From the little of the game I did watch it looked like Tolzien had time and Gore had some creases.  It looked a lot more solid than most of the games last season, so it's a start.

[life long]

37 minutes ago, tikyle said:

Blame Irsay.

 

Irsay has fostered this toxic culture of mistrust.  If Ballard is GM and he doesn't want Pagano as HC then he should hire the HC he wants.  What good is it if Ballard and Pagano are not on the same page.  There is no reason for TJ Green to start any game at CB over Quincy Wilson.  That is just laughable, I don't care if Wilson is a rookie, unless he's injured he's a better CB at this point in time than TJ Green.

 

As for the offensive line, who knows what's happening there.  From the little of the game I did watch it looked like Tolzien had time and Gore had some creases.  It looked a lot more solid than most of the games last season, so it's a start.

If possible watch the whole game. I definetly would not call that product an improvement over any game last year. There was a decent run defense, but that may have been due to their success through the air. It is possible for a different team to look good running on us while we take their qb out of the game. If anything it would be classic Pagano coaching. Focus soley on a weakness, while weakening a strength. 

[dw49]

2 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

I really really hope that pagano is what's holding this team back, and it's not the fact that there are no worthy starters starting. One is fixed relatively quickly. The other not so much. 

 

Talk about needs? 

 

OL

TE

LB

CB

S

 

all of which have 3rd string talent starting. 

 

Man. It's like every year we hope that we are better than the last and they try and prove us wrong. 

 

Ill always be a colts fan. But that won't make me a happy one. 

 

Yeah.. unless out of nowhere some of these younger guys suddenly develop into quality starters , we are full of holes. That's why you can't get excited with the cap for 2018. It's cool to look at the $'s we have to spend but if you click on the link that shows you what players are under contract for 2018 , it should wipe the smile from your face. There's really not much we know is "good stuff." You have Luck and Hilton and I would add to that Ryan Kelly but not much else. I think Castonzo counts about 11 million against the 2018 cap. He looked pretty bad vs speed rush last week ... no ? Hopefully this rookie class turns out to be nothing short of outstanding. If not we are going to be in trouble next year too.

[dw49]

1 minute ago, life long said:

If possible watch the whole game. I definetly would not call that product an improvement over any game last year. There was a decent run defense, but that may have been due to their success through the air. It is possible for a different team to look good running on us while we take their qb out of the game. If anything it would be classic Pagano coaching. Focus soley on a weakness, while weakening a strength. 

 

I couldn't watch the whole game. I've had direct tv nil package since the inception. Must be well over 20 years ? It was the first time ever I stopped watching a Colt game. I'll admit I've done that before in a pre season stinker but never in probably 400 or more Colt games I've watched over the years had I not watched start to finish. That was a sickening pile of crap. 

[Mister P]

Colts won't win until Mr.Pagano is removed and a complete revamp of the O-line occurs.

[Superman]

3 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

Yeah.. unless out of nowhere some of these younger guys suddenly develop into quality starters , we are full of holes. That's why you can't get excited with the cap for 2018. It's cool to look at the $'s we have to spend but if you click on the link that shows you what players are under contract for 2018 , it should wipe the smile from your face. There's really not much we know is "good stuff." You have Luck and Hilton and I would add to that Ryan Kelly but not much else. I think Castonzo counts about 11 million against the 2018 cap. He looked pretty bad vs speed rush last week ... no ? Hopefully this rookie class turns out to be nothing short of outstanding. If not we are going to be in trouble next year too.

 

We should give Trumaine Johnson whatever he wants.

[The Fish]

4 hours ago, tikyle said:

Blame Irsay.

 

Irsay has fostered this toxic culture of mistrust. 

 

You spelled Grigson wrong.

[The Fish]

1 hour ago, Mister P said:

Colts won't win until Mr.Pagano is removed and a complete revamp of the O-line occurs.

How about we get our center back and we get some of the other guys like Mewhort playing on more than one leg- then we see?

 

 

Injuries are doing bad things to this team's performance, but it's doing worse things to fans ability to understand what they're looking at.

 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

7 minutes ago, The Fish said:

How about we get our center back and we get some of the other guys like Mewhort playing on more than one leg- then we see?

 

I also think, if he has another game like he had last Sunday, that it might be time to entertain the idea of switching Costanzo over to RT, and giving Clark a crack at LT.

[The Fish]

7 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I also think, if he has another game like he had last Sunday, that it might be time to entertain the idea of switching Costanzo over to RT, and giving Clark a crack at LT.

 

Clark would whiff badly.. It'd be cool if I thought he could do it though. Costanzo is kind of an enigma. Sometimes he's pretty good. Sometimes he's really bad. On average, when he's retired, what are people going to say about him? Mediocre implies some kind of consistency...That's not one of his qualities.

[dw49]

27 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

We should give Trumaine Johnson whatever he wants.

 

I think you and I had a little back and forth on what types of free agents the Colts should sign. Let me just say that I agree to things like spending your money on a lock down CB like Johnson. 

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, csmopar said:

my guess is pagano thinks Green can play it better when we all know thats not true

 

We do you think ANYONE knows ANYTHING for SURE?!?

 

None of these young players are finished products.      They're all going to get better.

 

And why do you thinkg you, as a fan,  know more than the coaches who are with these players in practice everyday?

 

I think anytime a fan writes what you just did,   that you,  the fan base knows more than the coaches,  you are begging for trouble......

 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We do you think ANYONE knows ANYTHING for SURE?!?

 

None of these young players are finished products.      They're all going to get better.

 

And why do you thinkg you, as a fan,  know more than the coaches who are with these players in practice everyday?

 

I think anytime a fan writes what you just did,   that you,  the fan base knows more than the coaches,  you are begging for trouble......

 

I'm not saying I know more than pagano . I will never say that. What I'm saying is that based on the evidence thus far, Green has shown nothing during the game to warrant starting at ANY position. You don't have to be a football guru to see that the kid misses a tackle by a mile 

 

while they arent finished products, Green has been here for a while now and has shown he's not really good. He may yet surprise me. But based on what I've seen, he's a waste of time, 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We do you think ANYONE knows ANYTHING for SURE?!?

 

None of these young players are finished products.      They're all going to get better.

 

And why do you thinkg you, as a fan,  know more than the coaches who are with these players in practice everyday?

 

I think anytime a fan writes what you just did,   that you,  the fan base knows more than the coaches,  you are begging for trouble......

 

And just for the record, Pagano has a long history of playing players who suck thinking they'll get better when there's better players riding the bench that are proven.

[Yoshinator]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We do you think ANYONE knows ANYTHING for SURE?!?

 

None of these young players are finished products.      They're all going to get better.

 

And why do you thinkg you, as a fan,  know more than the coaches who are with these players in practice everyday?

 

I think anytime a fan writes what you just did,   that you,  the fan base knows more than the coaches,  you are begging for trouble......

 

To the bolded, It's not up to anyone on the forum to know more than Pagano. Even the worst coach in the league knows more than the most knowledgeable poster on this forum. IT IS, HOWEVER, up to Pagano, to know more and be able to outcoach the other 31 professional NFL coaches in the NFL, and he has shown huge regression in that area to the point where he is checked out. He isn't outcoaching anyone anymore, and he has never outcoached anyone that mattered.

[Defjamz26]

13 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

To the bolded, It's not up to anyone on the forum to know more than Pagano. Even the worst coach in the league knows more than the most knowledgeable poster on this forum. IT IS, HOWEVER, up to Pagano, to know more and be able to outcoach the other 31 professional NFL coaches in the NFL, and he has shown huge regression in that area to the point where he is checked out. He isn't outcoaching anyone anymore, and he has never outcoached anyone that mattered.

He's out coached himself pretty good on several occasions I think. 

[DougDew]

7 hours ago, B~Town said:

 

 

I get the Pagano hate and all but a lot of moves are being put solely on him and that is simply not the case . 

 

Green has the ideal size, speed and length that general manager Chris Ballard likes in cornerbacks and during the latter's time with Kansas City, he actually wanted to select the Clemson product during the 2016 NFL Draft.

 

"Do I eventually think that's going to be his best position? Yes, I do," Ballard said. "Long term? I think his best position is corner, and I think he's going to be a very good one in time."

Agreed.  The Green over Wilson start doesn't bother me.   I don't think Green has played badly at corner.   So Pagano/Ballard may be right about this.  And since Hairston looks to be a competent nickel, developing anther outside CB besides Wilson is a good idea given Vontae's increasing unreliability.

 

Maybe its the Melvin start that should be questioned. 

[DougDew]

25 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

He's out coached himself pretty good on several occasions I think. 

I think he lacks confidence in his ability to match strategic decisions with the opposing coach...so he gets rattled and tries to be gimmicky.  The whole thing has an absence of calm confidence, and that creates chaos.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, dw49 said:

I stole a couple comments fro Stampede Blue. Pretty obvious stuff , but I never thought about it. I'll also go a bit off topic and add the comment regarding DB's.

 

 "If you told me that the Colts would draft four offensive linemen in 2016, that three of them would end the 2016 season as promising starters, and that none of them would start in the 2017 season opener, I wouldn’t have believed you."

 

"If you told me that the Colts would use a fourth round draft pick and make one move in free agency to address their offensive line and that both of those players would be cut before the season started, I wouldn’t have believed it."

 

"If you told me that the Colts would draft three defensive backs in the 2017 NFL Draft and not only start none of them, but start second-year converted safety T.J. Green over second-year rookie cornerback Quincy Wilson, I wouldn’t have believed you."

 

That's why once again they are the Colts lol 

[aaron11]

some of the things you brought up were due to injuries

 

kelly is hurt...

hooker is healthy but missed most of the offseason.

wilson didnt look ready imo in the pre season

 

not sure what to say about haeg and clark.

 

[Defjamz26]

9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think he lacks confidence in his ability to match strategic decisions with the opposing coach...so he gets rattled and tries to be gimmicky.  The whole thing has an absence of calm confidence, and that creates chaos.

And confidence is something you HAVE to have as a coach. I think Pagano is unsure of his own ability and it's easy to see.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

And just for the record, Pagano has a long history of playing players who suck thinking they'll get better when there's better players riding the bench that are proven.

 

And just for the record,  since you seem to have forgotten,  some of those players,  were the order of Ryan Grigson.

 

Like Trent Richardson for one.     And maybe even Bjorn Werner for another.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

25 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

And confidence is something you HAVE to have as a coach. I think Pagano is unsure of his own ability and it's easy to see.

 

Dear God.      You are and continue to be your own worst enemy.

 

You don't have the first clue as to what Pagano thinks or feels.    But you continue to write posts as if you're privy to his inner most thoughts.

 

And don't tell me that I'm too literal or not reading between the lines.     That dog doesn't hunt.

 

What you're looking for is a perminent Get Out of Jail FREE card,  so you are free to write whatever you want without any recriminations.      And any time someone challenges you,   you pull out that card.     Everyone else is too literal and not reading between the lines.

 

Feel free to write what you want to say and not expect anyone else to understand your meaning.     When I write something and people don't understand my meaning,   I try to remember to apologize and explain myself so they do.

I'll give it several attempts and if I still can't get my point across,  then I punt.      But in most cases, I don't think the problem is with the reader,  I think it's with the writer --- me.

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

To the bolded, It's not up to anyone on the forum to know more than Pagano. Even the worst coach in the league knows more than the most knowledgeable poster on this forum. IT IS, HOWEVER, up to Pagano, to know more and be able to outcoach the other 31 professional NFL coaches in the NFL, and he has shown huge regression in that area to the point where he is checked out. He isn't outcoaching anyone anymore, and he has never outcoached anyone that mattered.

 

He outcoached lots of coaches in 2015 when he didn't have Andrew Luck for 9 games.

 

He outcoaches lots of coaches in 2016 when he didn't have a defense for an entire season.

 

You just choose not to believe it because it doesn't fit your view of Pagano.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again,  when posters write "why does Pagano or the coordinator play THAT GUY,  when everyone knows THIS GUY is so much better"   it is a LOSING argument.      Because you don't know.

 

So,  if I had a dollar for every post that wondered why the staff picked Tolzein over Morris,  my retirement would be looking pretty spectacular right now.     I'd be livng on easy street.     Fans here think they know more than the staff.   And they post like that all the time.

 

[dw49]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

some of the things you brought up were due to injuries

 

kelly is hurt...

hooker is healthy but missed most of the offseason.

wilson didnt look ready imo in the pre season

 

not sure what to say about haeg and clark.

 

 

I just posted the article as it does unfold an "unexpected" chain of events. I didn't even mean it to be a knock against management or coaching. Just not what you would expect to see after game one. And yes .. Kelly for sure and Hooker almost as certain would be starting if not for injuries. In fact the only coaching decision that could be questioned is starting Green at CB. Maybe Haeg not starting could be another but I didn't see enough of training camp to comment on that.

[Yoshinator]

51 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

He outcoached lots of coaches in 2015 when he didn't have Andrew Luck for 9 games.

 

He outcoaches lots of coaches in 2016 when he didn't have a defense for an entire season.

 

You just choose not to believe it because it doesn't fit your view of Pagano.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again,  when posters write "why does Pagano or the coordinator play THAT GUY,  when everyone knows THIS GUY is so much better"   it is a LOSING argument.      Because you don't know.

 

So,  if I had a dollar for every post that wondered why the staff picked Tolzein over Morris,  my retirement would be looking pretty spectacular right now.     I'd be livng on easy street.     Fans here think they know more than the staff.   And they post like that all the time.

 

What coaches has he outcoached that matter? Belichick? Nope. Tomlin? Nope. Del Rio with Carr (a threat now)? Nope. You want to say I don't know, that's the ultimate copout because you'll just hold that argument until Pagano is fired and then admit you're wrong to save face and look ridiculous to everyone else who figured the pattern out years ago. 

 

Like I said, the staff may know more than us, but they certainly don't know more than most other NFL teams, and that's ultimately all that matters and why the team is in the shape it is in today, and that is a fact.

[Yoshinator]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

He outcoached lots of coaches in 2015 when he didn't have Andrew Luck for 9 games.

 

He outcoaches lots of coaches in 2016 when he didn't have a defense for an entire season.

 

You just choose not to believe it because it doesn't fit your view of Pagano.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again,  when posters write "why does Pagano or the coordinator play THAT GUY,  when everyone knows THIS GUY is so much better"   it is a LOSING argument.      Because you don't know.

 

So,  if I had a dollar for every post that wondered why the staff picked Tolzein over Morris,  my retirement would be looking pretty spectacular right now.     I'd be livng on easy street.     Fans here think they know more than the staff.   And they post like that all the time.

 

BTW, sorry for lashing out and being aggressive with my post. I had a date tonight, she wanted to see the new IT movie, and I convinced her to come over and watch the Texans/Bengals game and we ordered pizza. Her first football game and it was a horrible one. She's now mad at me saying I wasted her time and I feel like a loser not taking her to the movies and watching a better game with her Sunday. So that, combined with Pagano, put me in a pretty lousy mood, lol.