Zach Banner-Offensive Line Needs

[alawai]

Was Banner the choice of the coach or the GM?  Was he a wasted pick?  I think the positive is there's communication between the GM and coaching staff.

[krunk]

Thought the starting line protected Tolzien just fine when they game planned. TJ Watt had been causing teams problems all preseason and he was quiet as a church mouse against us. The only guy whose been having real problems on the line is Clark in my eyes and I believe we've demoted him to a backup behind Vujnovich for now until he gets it together. Starting line is okay to me. Backups are Clark, Good, Silberman. I think this group is better than the credit being given. And ive said all off season long if we put a higher emphasis on running the football and using the play pass it will go a long ways towards reducing hits on the QB. We've got a nice stable of backs between Gore, Mack, Turbin, Jones. Ive also noticed we've used a ton of screen plays this preseason. I think we will also utilize our backs more in the passing game now that we have guys like Mack and Jones. I think we will be more apt to check down because of their ability to run after catch. All these things take pressure off the QB.

[BlueShoe]

3 hours ago, krunk said:

Thought the starting line protected Tolzien just fine when they game planned. TJ Watt had been causing teams problems all preseason and he was quiet as a church mouse against us. The only guy whose been having real problems on the line is Clark in my eyes and I believe we've demoted him to a backup behind Vujnovich for now until he gets it together. Starting line is okay to me. Backups are Clark, Good, Silberman. I think this group is better than the credit being given. And ive said all off season long if we put a higher emphasis on running the football and using the play pass it will go a long ways towards reducing hits on the QB. We've got a nice stable of backs between Gore, Mack, Turbin, Jones. Ive also noticed we've used a ton of screen plays this preseason. I think we will also utilize our backs more in the passing game now that we have guys like Mack and Jones. I think we will be more apt to check down because of their ability to run after catch. All these things take pressure off the QB.

 

Agreed. I want us to keep improving year-after-year but the offensive line is much better than it has been in the Luck era.

[rockywoj]

I would rather have Banner on the Practice Squad over Redmond.  I hope Banner clears waivers. 

[krunk]

Redmond sucks to me also. At least he did at center. Dont know about guard. If Banner clears waivers I'd definitely like to see him added to the PS.

[#12.]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You didn't know that,  because that's NOT what Ballard said.

 

The poster is not remembering things correctly.

 

I couldn't find the video, but in the Banner post-draft thread, people were saying the exact same thing I said in this thread.  

[krunk]

Banner might not move that well but people have a hard time getting around that massive frame. And as i stated previously if he gets those paws on you its over in the worst way bro. Would love to see his development.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

24 minutes ago, krunk said:

Banner might not move that well but people have a hard time getting around that massive frame. And as i stated previously if he gets those paws on you its over in the worst way bro. Would love to see his development.

 

Yeah, we should know soon today whether we get him to the practice squad. Hopefully we do.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Arg! Banner not added to the practice squad. All 10 places are added now. 

[KB]

Public service announcement. We can still cut people from the PS and put others on it.

[jameszeigler834]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Brissett has already proved otherwise.

 

He's got actual NFL game experience and for a rookie,  did quite well.

 

There's nothing in his profile that says "terrible" and don't know why you think that....

 

Again I didn't say that about brissett I was at that point talking about tolzien he is terrible.

[Shive]

1 hour ago, #12. said:

I couldn't find the video, but in the Banner post-draft thread, people were saying the exact same thing I said in this thread.  

I want to say that I remember it going how NCF said it. Philbin worked him out a bunch, loved him, and pretty much gave it his blessing. Is Philbin part of the reason we picked him? Sure, but just from his feedback, not because he's the one that made the pick. GM's don't hand over a pick to a position coach.

[OLD FAN MAN]

17 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Every GM is the next great thing since sliced bread till the newness wears out and he makes moves that fans don't like. That is just the way it goes.  

 

No GM bats even .500 in the draft. As a combination of draft and free agency, if 3 out of every 5 moves work for a GM, he would be a successful one in the NFL, and that is just .600, that is the nature of the NFL with no way to predict injuries or player performance from one year to another.

i like a gm that corrects his mistakes quickly, and does not keep a player he was wrong on to try to justify his pick, belichek does this very well, ballard seems to be this way also

[LJpalmbeacher2]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Hold on, cowboy....    slow your roll....

 

Ballard did NOT give the pick away to Philbin.    The pick was Ballard's and he made it.

 

Second,  who said this was a blunder?      Banner won't be the first guy to go to the practice squad as a rookie and turn into something somewhere down the road.

 

I don't know why you're trashing the pick already?      Let's wait until Banner is out of football and unable to get picked up by any of the 32 teams before we pronounce him a failure.

 

 

Lol. He was cut ! 

A 4th rd. pick was spent on him. Certainly not considered a success. 

If your waiting for him to be put on the practice squad and turn into a viable RT down the road WELL 31 other teams can pick him up because he WAS CUT and now is exposed to all other teams. If another team picks him up how does that help the colts?

[cbear]

I thought he was outstanding in pass blocking.  No one came close to getting passed him.  Run blocking was bad though.  Coaches really must have thought he wasn't going to improve.  

[NewColtsFan]

20 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

Lol. He was cut ! 

A 4th rd. pick was spent on him. Certainly not considered a success. 

If your waiting for him to be put on the practice squad and turn into a viable RT down the road WELL 31 other teams can pick him up because he WAS CUT and now is exposed to all other teams. If another team picks him up how does that help the colts?

 

Let's talk about this in 24 hours.    That's how long the team has to wait before we can put in a claim and get our own player back.       Maybe xomerone claims Banner,  I would not be surprised.      And if so,  I'll be disappointed.

 

But he might sneak through waivers and then we re-claim him for the PS.       I don't think this is over just yet.

 

[Aluckiswolverine]

Every year there is a training camp sweet heart, this year because of online suckage Banner is the savior. I trust in Ballard over the arm chair GM's here. Look past his size and take off the horse shoe tinted glasses. He was mediocre at best. People will argue how he has the intangibles to get better. You can say that about almost every rookie in the NFL. He did seem like a funny stand up guy and good teammate but that doesn't mean you deserve a spot on a NFL roster. Time for the Colts to stop giving roster spots to guys who deserve it and give them to guys that earn it.  

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, #12. said:

I couldn't find the video, but in the Banner post-draft thread, people were saying the exact same thing I said in this thread.  

 

I couldn't find it either.    I saw several stories that talked about the scouts view on him.   Then they said that Ballard and Philbin flew to Southern California where Philbin put him up on the white board for hours.       Beyond that, I've checked the internet for stories and couldn't find a story that broke things down as I hoped I would.

 

But, to your point about draft day and there were people saying the same thing....    on THAT POINT,  I am absolutely certain that you're right.      But that doesn't make it true.     On draft day (and the days that follow)  EVERYONE has an opinion and viewpoint they want to share.      Doesn't make it right.      I'm also sure I was involved in that discussion and I was saying things like.....    "Trust Philbin.     He worked him out moree than anyone else and he loves him."    I'm a big Philbin believer as an OL coach.

 

But I also said,  "It's Ballard's call."     Why?   It's a process.     The scouts find them.    Ballard and his team grade them.    And then he has Philbin work the guy out personally to give his approval or not.    A thumbs up or down.      But no GM ever just hands a pick over to a coach and says......    "Here,  pick who you want."       Respectfully,  it never works that way.  

 

It's a process that involves everyone in the scouting staff, coaches and the GM.      But ultimately,  it's the GM's call.    He can get fired with these picks,   he has to make the call.    

 

A rule of thumb I like to use.....   around draft time,  opinions are like herding cats.    They're wild and crazy and go in ten different directions all at once.    Everyone has an opinion.    But many here do not follow the draft and the process close enough to understand it.      So,  don't believe everything you read.

 

Just some food for thought.....

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

16 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

As A GM he was hired to build this team HIMSELF, not give token picks  away to coaches.

Whether Philbin wanted Banner or not, it's Ballard's Blunder that Banner was picked.

This is true!

[throwing BBZ]

1 hour ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

This is true!

 

Well i totally disagree that it was a blunder.

Banner, who Thought he was a 1st rd pick,  was given an opportunity to win a spot.

He failed. He owns it through his own preparation and effort.

 There are 1st rd picks that fail every season. It really is that simple.

 

[Aluckiswolverine]

18 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

As A GM he was hired to build this team HIMSELF, not give token picks  away to coaches.

Whether Philbin wanted Banner or not, it's Ballard's Blunder that Banner was picked.

I think we have unrealistic expectations of every single pick we make. He was a 4th round pick who didn't pan out. If Banner becomes a all world hall of famer then Ballard screwed the pooch. This type of thing happens on every team. Oh no a fourth rounder who everyone wants to be the feel good camp story got cut. I'm ready to move on and hope for the best with the guys Ballard deemed worthy of earning a spot on this team. 

[throwing BBZ]

6 hours ago, krunk said:

Banner might not move that well but people have a hard time getting around that massive frame. And as i stated previously if he gets those paws on you its over in the worst way bro. Would love to see his development.

 

 I think Banner has great potential being able to get to linebackers on the 2nd level, get out and block in the
screen game, lead runners down the field, and would love to see him kick Vonn Miller`s ___.
 Let the Slugg develop somewhere else, let them feed him.

[jvan1973]

19 hours ago, wig said:

 

People have been waiting for him to drop weight since his sophomore year. . . in high school. 

His dad was a mountain and was still great.  

[jvan1973]

7 hours ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

Arg! Banner not added to the practice squad. All 10 places are added now. 

That will change a few times throughout the season.  As it does every season

[Superman]

LOL

 

We've had 4th round picks get cut before (remember Terrance Taylor?). Last year, the Chiefs cut Keivarae Russell after camp, and he was their third rounder. We've also kept 4th rounders for a year or two, they still didn't play well, and eventually got cut. If the staff firmly believes that "he didn't earn a spot on the roster," like Ballard expressly said about Banner, why should they keep him?

 

By the way, this happens every year. Some guys don't work out, and there's no sense in dragging it out. 

[DaveA1102]

Banner now officially picked up by the browns per Ian Rapoport

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

3 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

Well i totally disagree that it was a blunder.

Banner, who Thought he was a 1st rd pick,  was given an opportunity to win a spot.

He failed. He owns it through his own preparation and effort.

 There are 1st rd picks that fail every season. It really is that simple.

 

I meant that Ballard, Philban, and the scouts are responsible. Total blunder a 4th round pick not making the team, hummm disappointing more like it. You need to hit on 4th round picks  more than not, & he was picked with the Allen trade pick. So the Colts basically gave Allen away to NE for a bag of rocks. Can't hit on all of them, but there was risk in the pick.

[ponyboy]

1 minute ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

I meant that Ballard, Philban, and the scouts are responsible. Total blunder a 4th round pick not making the team, hummm disappointing more like it. You need to hit on 4th round picks  more than not, & he was picked with the Allen trade pick. So the Colts basically gave Allen away to NE for a bag of rocks. Can't hit on all of them, but there was risk in the pick.

 

Not to rub salt in the wound, but we gave up our 6th round pick too.  It was Allen and 6th for a 4th (which was used on Banner).

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

18 minutes ago, ponyboy said:

 

Not to rub salt in the wound, but we gave up our 6th round pick too.  It was Allen and 6th for a 4th (which was used on Banner).

SALTY

[superrep1967]

On 9/3/2017 at 5:13 PM, D-lineman said:

Zach Banner is charasmatic and seems like a good dude. Because of this and his freakish size, many of us rooted for him and hoped he could get weight down and be stud right tackle.  He may be on practice squad and eventually make an NFL roster but  NFL requires speed and athleticism,  Banner is limited. Hopefully our line continues to improve as I'm tired of seeing Luck in street clothes.  I suspect Colts will be drafting O-Line early again next year 

Yes, depending on how this year plays out for the o-line will probably be drafting high for o-lineman next draft. 

[krunk]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

LOL

 

We've had 4th round picks get cut before (remember Terrance Taylor?). Last year, the Chiefs cut Keivarae Russell after camp, and he was their third rounder. We've also kept 4th rounders for a year or two, they still didn't play well, and eventually got cut. If the staff firmly believes that "he didn't earn a spot on the roster," like Ballard expressly said about Banner, why should they keep him?

 

By the way, this happens every year. Some guys don't work out, and there's no sense in dragging it out. 

Does losing Banner give us any type of compensatory picks?

[IinD]

7 hours ago, Superman said:

LOL

 

We've had 4th round picks get cut before (remember Terrance Taylor?). Last year, the Chiefs cut Keivarae Russell after camp, and he was their third rounder. We've also kept 4th rounders for a year or two, they still didn't play well, and eventually got cut. If the staff firmly believes that "he didn't earn a spot on the roster," like Ballard expressly said about Banner, why should they keep him?

 

By the way, this happens every year. Some guys don't work out, and there's no sense in dragging it out. 

Terrence Taylor..lol. I remember them talking about his 800lb bench press ability (not the exact # I know, just threw it in).

[rockywoj]

7 hours ago, ponyboy said:

 

Not to rub salt in the wound, but we gave up our 6th round pick too.  It was Allen and 6th for a 4th (which was used on Banner).

Ouch. Traded him for nothing, in other words.  That's negative EV.

 

Thing is, when I watched Banner play, I thought he did okay.   To me, if I am GM, even IF he didn't quite play up to what I hoped, call me a stubborn sap, but I would have held him for at least one year to see if by next year he can develop to justify the high pick expended.  Unless he was a head case and exposed as totally inferior, no way am I just cutting all hope straight away after just one training camp.  

 

Difficult for me to believe that Vujnovich offers more upside.  

[Superman]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

Does losing Banner give us any type of compensatory picks?

 

Nope. 

[NewColtsFan]

14 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

Well i totally disagree that it was a blunder.

Banner, who Thought he was a 1st rd pick,  was given an opportunity to win a spot.

He failed. He owns it through his own preparation and effort.

 There are 1st rd picks that fail every season. It really is that simple.

 

 

And where did you get this from?

 

Do you have a link?

 

I've seen no other poster who has made ths claim....       so where did you come up with it?

 

[lollygagger8]

It's nice to see a GM admit a mistake and cut a guy based on production, not just drafting/liking him.