The Colts are basically Cleveland in talent level-with Luck

[MTC]

Not defending Hue, but almost every coach in this league would go 1-15 or slightly better with the Browns roster. It's bad.

 

I would say the Colts offense is more talented on paper than the Browns, but the defense is a wash.

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, MTC said:

Not defending Hue, but almost every coach in this league would go 1-15 or slightly better with the Browns roster. It's bad.

 

I would say the Colts offense is more talented on paper than the Browns, but the defense is a wash.

Browns were competitive in almost every game, lost a ton of close games..They will make a big jump next year with Hue Jackson..Lots of rookies and young players on that team..They really need to figure out the QB situation...

[WoolMagnet]

Ah, no, the op is wrong.

maybe on D, but thats it.

[southwest1]

2 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

we were decimated at almost EVERY position with injuries this year..It is not the NORM to have the injuries we had this year at all.

Yep, that always seems to be our achilles heel JS23. M-432 & others from yrs past have raised concerns about our strength & conditioning staff. Yes, I know all 32 teams get saddled with injuries, but INDY feels snake bit in this area to me over multiple seasons. I wish I had the remedy in this arena for our franchise. 

[LockeDown]

There is a thing called execution and I think sometimes we lack that more than talent.  Luck and Hilton do seem to have some chemistry obviously, but we have 4 WRs, 3 TEs and 3 RBs that need to all be on the same collective page with Luck and I just don't see that.  I'm not blaming any one person for that.  There are other factors that could win us a few more games just as we are.  

[southwest1]

8 minutes ago, LockeDown said:

There is a thing called execution and I think sometimes we lack that more than talent.  Luck and Hilton do seem to have some chemistry obviously, but we have 4 WRs, 3 TEs and 3 RBs that need to all be on the same collective page with Luck and I just don't see that.  I'm not blaming any one person for that.  There are other factors that could win us a few more games just as we are.  

Watching Matt Ryan distribute the ball to so many WRs last weekend & TEs & RBs vs the Seahawks is right on par with your post LD. 

 

I get what your saying--Distribute the ball around more so DC's cannot double team Hilton so darn much & systematically stop our biggest offensive threat. When I watched Atlanta, I was like holy crap man! Aaron Rogers & the Packers are so screwed this week. LOL! 

[VocableLoki]

44 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Browns were competitive in almost every game, lost a ton of close games..They will make a big jump next year with Hue Jackson..Lots of rookies and young players on that team..They really need to figure out the QB situation...

 

The Colts lost plenty of close games this year.

[southwest1]

Slightly off topic: During the Falcons/Seahawks game, I laughed so hard when FOX booth announcer John Lynch made a "Top Gun" movie reference regarding Baldwin's comeback route to the ball & TD late in that game. 

 

"Slam on the brakes [briefly] & the DB [covering you] flies right on by." Film references in NFL games always amuses me I can't lie. 

 

Lynch is the best man. Love that guy. Okay, my bad. Back on topic. 

[LockeDown]

14 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Watching Matt Ryan distribute the ball to so many WRs last weekend & TEs & RBs vs the Seahawks is right on par with your post LD. 

 

I get what your saying--Distribute the ball around more so DC's cannot double team Hilton so darn much & systematically stop our biggest offensive threat. When I watched Atlanta, I was like holy crap man! Aaron Rogers & the Packers are so screwed this week. LOL! 

I was thinking the same thing.  The Falcons look great.

[21isSuperman]

I don't think this is that much of a stretch to compare rosters right now.  If the 2016 Colts go 8-8 with Luck, how would they do without him?

 

In 2015, the Browns had 3 Pro Bowlers and 1 All-Pro.  The Colts had 5 Pro Bowlers (4 if you remove Luck) and 0 All-Pros.

In 2016, the Browns have 1 Pro Bowler and 1 All-Pro.  The Colts have 2 Pro Bowlers and 0 All-Pros

 

Of course, if you compare team histories, it's not even close.

[jshipp23]

46 minutes ago, VocableLoki said:

The Colts lost plenty of close games this year.

We also won 8...

[jshipp23]

12 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I don't think this is that much of a stretch to compare rosters right now.  If the 2016 Colts go 8-8 with Luck, how would they do without him?

 

In 2015, the Browns had 3 Pro Bowlers and 1 All-Pro.  The Colts had 5 Pro Bowlers (4 if you remove Luck) and 0 All-Pros.

In 2016, the Browns have 1 Pro Bowler and 1 All-Pro.  The Colts have 2 Pro Bowlers and 0 All-Pros

 

Of course, if you compare team histories, it's not even close.

Take away most teams starting QB and they wouldn't win a lot of games..Look what happened to the Raiders and everyone talks about how much talent they have..How many do the Packers win without Rodgers? How many do the Steelers win without Roethlisberger? The one team that seems to skirt this is the Patriots and it's cause they have Belichik..

[21isSuperman]

1 hour ago, jshipp23 said:

Take away most teams starting QB and they wouldn't win a lot of games..Look what happened to the Raiders and everyone talks about how much talent they have..How many do the Packers win without Rodgers? How many do the Steelers win without Roethlisberger? The one team that seems to skirt this is the Patriots and it's cause they have Belichik..

Right, but how much talent do those teams still have without their QBs?  Without Roethlisberger, the Steelers still have a top 5 WR, a top 5 RB (when available), and a top 5 OL.  Without Carr, the Raiders still have a top 5 pass rusher (arguably even #1) and a top 5 OL.  Without Luck, what do the Colts have?  The only top 5s we have anywhere else on the roster are at WR with Hilton and on special teams.

[Goatface Killah]

6 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

No way we are as devoid as Cleveland.

 

Last year we where competative in many games and won several with Hasselbeck under center.

 

This year with Tolzien under center we where competitive with the Steelers.  It didn't come across on the scoreboard but that's because we constantly blew it at the goal line.  

 

Browns are just straight up not competitive in most games.  

 

We arn't talent rich, without Luck.  But we are not as devoid as the Browns either. 

 

I agree I get sick of hearing that, it's ridiculous. 

 

The Colts have something teams dream of having. A guy like JJ Watt is considered a super talent but the Texans would give us him and 2 first round picks for Luck, and instantly become a legitimate SB contender. And despite being MUCH more talented than us, top to bottom, Luck levels the playing field and we are right there with them.

 

You can't take a player like that away from a teams roster to make some lame argument. He is on the roster and will be for 10 more years. And if you remove the franchise QB/player from almost any team, their roster is gonna look a lot worse.

 

I'm not really sure whats the point in doing that other than to try to make a point that isn't based in reality.

 

Luck is a part of the Colts roster, let's not live in a fantasy land.

 

 

 

 

[Surge89]

7 hours ago, threeflight said:

When you really look at the Colts roster, you start to see a trend throughout most of it.  The pure lack of talent on all sides of the ball.

 

Go back to the Glory years during the Manning era.  You had Manning, Wayne, Harrison, Stokely, Collie, Clark, James, Addai, Pollard, Saturday, Glenn on the offensive side, and people like Freeney, Sanders, Mathis, Bethea, and a slew of good linebackers.

 

Now?  Compare those players to Luck, Hilton, I guess Moncrief and Kelly on the O, and who on the D?  Davis?  And that is just the starters.  While the Colts have never been a particularly deep team, even our depth now is pretty non existent.  There is just no talent here.  Add in the VERY average coaching at best and it really goes to show you that without Luck, we are the Browns.

 

Thing is, Irsay is in a tough spot. He wants to make a change to a big name coach and GM.  And he should. But his main choices like Harbaugh, Gruden, and Manning, are just not available YET.  So what does he do?  Sit and wait and then fire P and G when someone becomes available?  Or fire them now, hire a no name, and then have one of his top choices become available next year.  Then what...fire the coach he just hired?

What he should have done, and this would have been ballsy, was to go after Harbaugh the moment be became available.  I realize that would mean firing Pagano after 3 good seasons, but if you want Super Bowls with Luck, it would have had to have been done.

 

Now he has to wait....

 

Lol I bet it's a blast drinking and reminiscing the past with you. Talk about remembering what you want to remember...

 

The funniest thing about this post was the "slew of good linebackers" comment.  About near spit out my tea at that point.

[Goatface Killah]

5 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Lol I bet it's a blast drinking and reminiscing the past with you. Talk about remembering what you want to remember...

 

The funniest thing about this post was the "slew of good linebackers" comment.  About near spit out my tea at that point.

Yeah, lol

 

Let's make up a roster that has Brandon Stokely AND Austin Collie on it (who were both just average anyways) and Edgerrin James AND Joseph Addai and compare a collection of players that played here over a 7-8 year span to the 2016 Colts roster without Andrew Luck.

 

Cmon man.

 

 

[James Ducheteau]

16 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

Right.  We have less talent than most teams, yet we were 8-8 and in a number of games until the end.

 

Sure, Luck is a huge factor, but you have to give some credit to the coaches. 

I think if we played in the north, in Cleveland's spot, we don't sweep any team in that division, and could very well have been swept by everyone instead...In the north we are very easily  5-11... so while I think saying we suck as bad as cleveland is a stretch, it's not that much of a stretch

[James Ducheteau]

16 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

Right.  We have less talent than most teams, yet we were 8-8 and in a number of games until the end.

 

Sure, Luck is a huge factor, but you have to give some credit to the coaches. 

I think if we played in the north, in Cleveland's spot, we don't sweep any team in that division, and could very well have been swept by everyone instead...In the north we are very easily  5-11... so while I think saying we suck as bad as cleveland is a stretch, it's not that much of a stretch

[James Ducheteau]

16 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

Right.  We have less talent than most teams, yet we were 8-8 and in a number of games until the end.

 

Sure, Luck is a huge factor, but you have to give some credit to the coaches. 

I think if we played in the north, in Cleveland's spot, we don't sweep any team in that division, and could very well have been swept by everyone instead...In the north we are very easily  5-11... so while I think saying we suck as bad as cleveland is a stretch, it's not that much of a stretch

[lollygagger8]

No way, the Browns trade waaaaaay better than the Colts do! 

 

 

 

[Smonroe]

1 hour ago, James Ducheteau said:

I think if we played in the north, in Cleveland's spot, we don't sweep any team in that division, and could very well have been swept by everyone instead...In the north we are very easily  5-11... so while I think saying we suck as bad as cleveland is a stretch, it's not that much of a stretch

 

Speculation.  We split with the AFC West and took 3 of 4 from the NFC North.  How did Cleveland do outside of their division?

 

As Parcells said, "You are what your record says you are".

 

There's a pretty big stretch between 1 and 8 wins.  

[Andrew Luck fan club]

http://www.1070thefan.com/blogs/brunos-blog/colts-whiffed-elite-young-talent

Do you ever wonder how our team would be if we didn't hire griggles, because I do. (Hill doesn't count)

[LJpalmbeacher2]

It's difficult to judge the talent level on teams with bad coaching and management.

But Colts & Browns are close in the coaching department and management.

[Myles]

1 hour ago, Majin Vegeta said:

http://www.1070thefan.com/blogs/brunos-blog/colts-whiffed-elite-young-talent

Do you ever wonder how our team would be if we didn't hire griggles, because I do. (Hill doesn't count)

Oh what could have been.  

It's like a little kid playing T-ball where your can swing as often as you want because you can't strike out.

[BullsColtsFan1]

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/cowherd-rips-jim-irsay-calls-colts-cleveland-with-andrew-luck/

[NewColtsFan]

 

I appreciate that so many are now coming around to the fact that we don't have a talented roster.

 

This was not a well accepted fact one year ago.     Many posters are now believing that.     Good.

 

That said,  we are not a Cleveland roster with Andrew Luck.    No,  not at all.      And I don't care about someone like Colin Cowherd and I like The Herd.      But he's a Loud Speaker in search of ratings,   he LOVES Andrew Luck and he's angry at the news of Luck having shoulder surgery.

 

This is a weak argument.   

 

You can make a case perhaps on the defensive side of the ball,   but not the offensive side.    We have far more talent on that side of the ball.

 

A lot of the stuff flying around right now is just noise.    It's white noise.    Ignore it.    Stay focused on the team.   Keep your eyes on the Colts.       You'll know legitimate criticism when you read/hear it.

 

And this isn't it.

 

[jshipp23]

12 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I appreciate that so many are now coming around to the fact that we don't have a talented roster.

 

This was not a well accepted fact one year ago.     Many posters are now believing that.     Good.

 

That said,  we are not a Cleveland roster with Andrew Luck.    No,  not at all.      And I don't care about someone like Colin Cowherd and I like The Herd.      But he's a Loud Speaker in search of ratings,   he LOVES Andrew Luck and he's angry at the news of Luck having shoulder surgery.

 

This is a weak argument.   

 

You can make a case perhaps on the defensive side of the ball,   but not the offensive side.    We have far more talent on that side of the ball.

 

A lot of the stuff flying around right now is just noise.    It's white noise.    Ignore it.    Stay focused on the team.   Keep your eyes on the Colts.       You'll know legitimate criticism when you read/hear it.

 

And this isn't it.

 

Good post..

[Luck is Good]

26 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I appreciate that so many are now coming around to the fact that we don't have a talented roster.

 

This was not a well accepted fact one year ago.     Many posters are now believing that.     Good.

 

That said,  we are not a Cleveland roster with Andrew Luck.    No,  not at all.      And I don't care about someone like Colin Cowherd and I like The Herd.      But he's a Loud Speaker in search of ratings,   he LOVES Andrew Luck and he's angry at the news of Luck having shoulder surgery.

 

This is a weak argument.   

 

You can make a case perhaps on the defensive side of the ball,   but not the offensive side.    We have far more talent on that side of the ball.

 

A lot of the stuff flying around right now is just noise.    It's white noise.    Ignore it.    Stay focused on the team.   Keep your eyes on the Colts.       You'll know legitimate criticism when you read/hear it.

 

And this isn't it.

 

Definitely agree. The Colts roster is not great but it's still better than the Browns

[jshipp23]

We could have one of the best rosters in the NFL next year. ..With the development of our young talent from last few drafts along with adding two impact free agents on defense,  and a defensive focused draft, the future is much brighter than many think..

[NewColtsFan]

26 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

We could have one of the best rosters in the NFL next year. ..With the development of our young talent from last few drafts along with adding two impact free agents on defense,  and a defensive focused draft, the future is much brighter than many think..

 

You don't go from a below average roster to "one of the best rosters in the NFL" in one year.

 

No one does.

 

It will be an improved roster,   but far from "one of the best"....

 

 

[jshipp23]

38 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You don't go from a below average roster to "one of the best rosters in the NFL" in one year.

 

No one does.

 

It will be an improved roster,   but far from "one of the best"....

 

 

We already have one of the most talented offenses and we proved it going 6-3 without Luck..If we add a couple pro bowl caliber players to defense in free agency, and have a good defensive draft yes we can..If our young guys develop that we have in house, and we avoid injuries you will be surprised..I don't believe we have a roster devoid of talent to begin with...The national media just parrott each other and really don't follow our team or know what we got...We could very easily be next years Falcon's if we play our offseason right...

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

We already have one of the most talented offenses and we proved it going 6-3 without Luck..

 

Not at all. The offense has averaged 18 points/game in 10 games without Luck. 

 

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

We already have one of the most talented offenses and we proved it going 6-3 without Luck..If we add a couple pro bowl caliber players to defense in free agency, and have a good defensive draft yes we can..If our young guys develop that we have in house, and we avoid injuries you will be surprised..I don't believe we have a roster devoid of talent to begin with...The national media just parrott each other and really don't follow our team or know what we got...We could very easily be next years Falcon's if we play our offseason right...

 

We went 6-3 without Luck TWO YEARS ago,  thanks to a masterful job by Chudzinkski.

 

Our offense is good and should be very good next year.....

 

But the defense is not going to get fixed in one year.      That's a pipe dream.     Plus depth,  we still have to develop depth.     You're the one who noted talented roster...

 

You can go from worst to first in your division.   That's common.

 

But you're not going to go from a below average roster to "one of the best in the NFL" in one year......

 

We'll be improved.     Hopefully very improved.     But more than that, I think you're going to be disappointed...

 

[braveheartcolt]

4 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

It's difficult to judge the talent level on teams with bad coaching and management.

But Colts & Browns are close in the coaching department and management.

Based on what? Stop making stuff up. We know you want them gone, but chucking out stupid comparisons like this is making you look silly.

 

[TDewar1987]

I remember the good ol' Colts days when Manning and the team had to walk 15 MILES up hill in the snow both ways to practice. Mmmmhmm. Yep. Them was the days. 

[James Ducheteau]

5 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

Speculation.  We split with the AFC West and took 3 of 4 from the NFC North.  How did Cleveland do outside of their division?

 

As Parcells said, "You are what your record says you are".

 

There's a pretty big stretch between 1 and 8 wins.  

True, I'm just saying 3 of those 8 wins came from sweeping the Titans and beating the jags once, and I'm not positive we get three wins out of 6 games against Pit,Bal and Cin.

[Luck is Good]

30 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We went 6-3 without Luck TWO YEARS ago,  thanks to a masterful job by Chudzinkski.

 

Our offense is good and should be very good next year.....

 

But the defense is not going to get fixed in one year.      That's a pipe dream.     Plus depth,  we still have to develop depth.     You're the one who noted talented roster...

 

You can go from worst to first in your division.   That's common.

 

But you're not going to go from a below average roster to "one of the best in the NFL" in one year......

 

We'll be improved.     Hopefully very improved.     But more than that, I think you're going to be disappointed...

 

The offense would be better if the WRs can catch the ball. That would be a start. Bring in Reggie as the WR coach and I guarantee we see the receiving corps play much better

[jshipp23]

40 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Not at all. The offense has averaged 18 points/game in 10 games without Luck. 

 

If we have no talent other than Luck how do we go 6-3? Great coaching lol? Great defensive talent? It can't go both ways...We should have been 12-4 this year we literally gave 4 games away by bad coaching ....Not possible if we don't have talent...

[Smonroe]

2 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

If we have no talent other than Luck how do we go 6-3? Great coaching lol? Great defensive talent? It can't go both ways...We should have been 12-4 this year we literally gave 4 games away by bad coaching ....Not possible if we don't have talent...

 

Of course, the inverse of that is that it must have taken great coaching to win 8 games with such bad talent.  

 

But it we all know it's not black and white.  

[Superman]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

If we have no talent other than Luck how do we go 6-3? Great coaching lol? Great defensive talent? It can't go both ways...We should have been 12-4 this year we literally gave 4 games away by bad coaching ....Not possible if we don't have talent...

 

You should pay more respect to nuance. I'm obviously not arguing that we don't have any talent, especially on offense. I am saying that we don't have 'one of the most talented offenses, without Luck.' The fact that we barely manage 18 points/game without him is a testament to that.