Andrew Luck, I see potential, but I just don't know

[ThatOneColtFan]

2 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

No. Cam has a much better defense than Luck has though. 

 

LOL

 

Cam Newton, as of this day is most definitely better than Luck, this isn't even a question. Dude is the reigning MVP.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, BOTT said:

Let's see, you call me a troll then get upset when I insult you back.  Plus, I didn't really insult you, I just pointed out the obvious.....you're a liar.

So once again you're going to ignore the reasons why I said Cam was better than Luck? Can't dispute them huh? I didn't think so. You are a homer who can't admit when your players aren't the best at what they do. You live vicariously through Luck and the Colts, and get upset when someone who's a colt fan doesn't think that player is the best. Maybe you should actually achieve something in life. I can win my own competitions and don't need to rely on the Colts to make my life happy. So Cmon, how is Luck better than Cam? Make my day.

[21isSuperman]

5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You didn't dispute at all why I was right or wrong, because you can't, you just said some stupid nonsense about the defense, which has nothing to do with how Cam plays. ON offense, Cam is a better QB than Luck. In fact, I can't think of one area where Luck is better than Cam. Again, you can only try to insult me with your last sentence, which proves even more you are a troll.

 

3 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Let's see, you call me a troll then get upset when I insult you back.  Plus, I didn't really insult you, I just pointed out the obvious.....you're a liar.

Have the discussion, but let's not make it personal with the attacks.  Attack the post, not the poster.

 

1 minute ago, ThatOneColtFan said:

 

LOL

 

Cam Newton, as of this day is most definitely better than Luck, this isn't even a question. Dude is the reigning MVP.

Last week, Luck went off for nearly 400 yards and 4 TDs.  Cam is in a better situation.  Luck does have some things he needs to fix, but Luck at his best vs. Cam at his best isn't as clear as people want to make it seem.

[ThatOneColtFan]

Cam has been on trash rosters too, almost just as bad as Luck's situation. But I do agree, no one does it alone and Luck is gonna need a lot more around him to do anything. Cam elevated himself to another level last year, a level that Luck has yet to reach. 

[runthepost]

25 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

 

 

Luck is a far better leader.  Luck has to do more with less in terms of coaches (Shula has been an excellent coordinator for Cam) and team roster (Carolina's defense is great).  Luck is a more intelligent player.   Put Luck in Carolina and I think they win the Super Bowl last year.  Put Cam here and you get a year of

Give Cam our receiving core and he will push near 55 TDs

[jradMT]

Good god what a bunch of ingrates!  As a Texan fan, I would give my left nut to have AL as my qb.  Good grief, they were in a position to drive the field and win the game, who's to say that wouldn't have happened if Miller doesn't make an amazing play.  Yeah the pick 6 was bad, but it was more of an amazing play than a brain fart by Luck.  You guys are sitting here p!ssing and moaning, and have no idea what an actual mediocre who can't win without a top ten D look like.  Do the Colts have a top ten D?  No, and they could have won today if they score a TD on that drive.  Arm strength are you guys kidding me?  Reading defenses are you kidding me too? Yes he holds the ball too long at times, and he takes chances, but the INT's are not because he isn't reading the D or going through his progressions, its because he is a risk taker and a gunslinger type, he definitely is not confused.  Good lord, I swear bring up all the bad, and the pick 6.   But what about all those rushers he evaded left and right in the second half, he was pulling hoodinis left and right out there for a couple of those drives.  And as bad as the pick was what about the 3 and 20 run he had?????   No one is talking about that.  you guys don't know what you have in him, he is damn good, way better than Eli ever was.  No he isn't Brady or Rodgers, but who is??  He is damn good probably top 5 in the league, and all these posters are whining left and right about this or that, it amazes me, seriously how spoiled some are.

[BOTT]

11 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

So once again you're going to ignore the reasons why I said Cam was better than Luck? Can't dispute them huh? I didn't think so. You are a homer who can't admit when your players aren't the best at what they do. You live vicariously through Luck and the Colts, and get upset when someone who's a colt fan doesn't think that player is the best. Maybe you should actually achieve something in life. I can win my own competitions and don't need to rely on the Colts to make my life happy. So Cmon, how is Luck better than Cam? Make my day.

Because I think luck has done more with far less.  I don't know why you have such a hard time comprehending this. I don't think there is any glaring advantages...although I think he's a better passer. Even with poor coaching, no defense, no running game he dragged this team to the playoffs three years in a row including the afc championship game.

 

cam is such a great passer, the Broncos game plan has been to make him throw it.

 

the rest of post is pure little boy crap who is upset he is getting called out on his lies.

[BOTT]

6 minutes ago, ThatOneColtFan said:

Cam has been on trash rosters too, almost just as bad as Luck's situation. But I do agree, no one does it alone and Luck is gonna need a lot more around him to do anything. But Cam elevated himself to another level last year, a level that Luck has yet to reach.

Yeah, look at the results when cam was on teams with trash rosters.

[Yoshinator]

4 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Because I think luck has done more with far less.  I don't know why you have such a hard time comprehending this. I don't think there is any glaring advantages...although I think he's a better passer. Even with poor coaching, no defense, no running game he dragged this team to the playoffs three years in a row including the afc championship game.

 

cam is such a great passer, the Broncos game plan has been to make him throw it.

Cam has a worse WR corps, close to the same running game now (no Deangelo Williams the last couple years), and the defense doesn't affect how Luck or Cam plays on offense. This isn't about winning games, I realize Luck is going to lose a few more because of the defense, I'm talking about how good they are on offense and what they do skill wise on their own. Cam literally does everything Luck does better than Luck. 

 

Also, if you think Ron Rivera is a good coach, you're Crazy. He started to do well when a great team was built. Cam brought his team to a 15-1 record, a SB, and won the MVP. It's not close.

[Malakai432]

4 minutes ago, jradMT said:

Good god what a bunch of ingrates!  As a Texan fan, I would give my left nut to have AL as my qb.  Good grief, they were in a position to drive the field and win the game, who's to say that wouldn't have happened if Miller doesn't make an amazing play.  Yeah the pick 6 was bad, but it was more of an amazing play than a brain fart by Luck.  You guys are sitting here p!ssing and moaning, and have no idea what an actual mediocre who can't win without a top ten D look like.  Do the Colts have a top ten D?  No, and they could have won today if they score a TD on that drive.  Arm strength are you guys kidding me?  Reading defenses are you kidding me too? Yes he holds the ball too long at times, and he takes chances, but the INT's are not because he isn't reading the D or going through his progressions, its because he is a risk taker and a gunslinger type, he definitely is not confused.  Good lord, I swear bring up all the bad, and the pick 6.   But what about all those rushers he evaded left and right in the second half, he was pulling hoodinis left and right out there for a couple of those drives.  And as bad as the pick was what about the 3 and 20 run he had?????   No one is talking about that.  you guys don't know what you have in him, he is damn good, way better than Eli ever was.  No he isn't Brady or Rodgers, but who is??  He is damn good probably top 5 in the league, and all these posters are whining left and right about this or that, it amazes me, seriously how spoiled some are.

 

Hahah nailed it, post of the year worthy material.

[BOTT]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Cam has a worse WR corps, close to the same running game now (no Deangelo Williams the last couple years), and the defense doesn't affect how Luck or Cam plays on offense. This isn't about winning games, I realize Luck is going to lose a few more because of the defense, I'm talking about how good they are on offense and what they do skill wise on their own. Cam literally does everything Luck does better than Luck. 

You don't think a great defense allows a QB to play different?  Good lord.....

[21isSuperman]

4 minutes ago, runthepost said:

Give Cam our receiving core and he will push near 55 TDs

Give Cam our running game and a defense that can't give him good field position or the ball back with turnovers and let's see how he does

 

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

Cam has a worse WR corps, close to the same running game now (no Deangelo Williams the last couple years), and the defense doesn't affect how Luck or Cam plays on offense. This isn't about winning games, I realize Luck is going to lose a few more because of the defense, I'm talking about how good they are on offense and what they do skill wise on their own. Cam literally does everything Luck does better than Luck. 

Close to the same running game?  What are you talking about?  The Panthers combined for well over 100 rushing yards against the Broncos last week.  The Colts today got 66.  And it's simply ignorant to say defense doesn't affect how your QB plays.  If your defense can get turnovers and stops, you get the ball back with a shorter field or in better field position.  If your defense can stop the other team from scoring, you have more freedom with what you can do on offense.  Give us Carolina's defense (even for just the final drive) and we win last week against Detroit.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, BOTT said:

You don't think a great defense allows a QB to play different?  Good lord.....

It may affect how long they stay on the field, but it doesn't affect how they pass, how accurate they are, if they commit turnovers, etc etc... You are grasping at straws here. The QB is playing on offense and unless the defense is literally going 3 and out every drive, it won't affect the QB that much. Luck is supposed to be young and elite, he's the last person that should be affected by a tiresome defense. I said it would make him lose a few more games and I understand that, but you probably just skipped that part to the one sentence you read.

[Devildog]

3 hours ago, JlynRN said:

How long did it take this thread to appear after the game ended??  30 seconds??  ROFL

No, I think this thread was created way before the game started. 

[Malakai432]

I'll tell you what, Rodgers is playing like total crap vs a solid D.

 

3 fumbles, 1 TD, 1 pick 

[Yoshinator]

4 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Give Cam our running game and a defense that can't give him good field position or the ball back with turnovers and let's see how he does

 

Close to the same running game?  What are you talking about?  The Panthers combined for well over 100 rushing yards against the Broncos last week.  The Colts today got 66.  And it's simply ignorant to say defense doesn't affect how your QB plays.  If your defense can get turnovers and stops, you get the ball back with a shorter field or in better field position.  If your defense can stop the other team from scoring, you have more freedom with what you can do on offense.  Give us Carolina's defense (even for just the final drive) and we win last week against Detroit.

You do realize Cam had half of the rushing yards for the Panthers week 1 right? Shorter field position doesn't make up for all the turnovers Luck makes as well. He's a turnover machine. He still starts slow when field position is relatively even at the beginning of games before it gets out of hand. A lot of times they score against us anyway, so we get it at the 20 or 25 because of a touchback. Are you saying Luck shouldn't have to score from the standard spot? He's a very good QB, but he's not on Cam's level. Even his run ability is worth nothing now.

[21isSuperman]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

You do realize Cam had half of the rushing yards for the Panthers week 1 right? Shorter field position doesn't make up for all the turnovers Luck makes as well. He's a turnover machine. He still starts slow when field position is relatively even at the beginning of games before it gets out of hand. A lot of times they score against us anyway, so we get it at the 20 or 25 because of a touchback. Are you saying Luck shouldn't have to score from the standard spot? He's a very good QB, but he's not on Cam's level. Even his run ability is worth nothing now.

I'm not trying to discount anything Cam does, but he's in a far better situation than Luck.  He's on a championship roster with excellent coaching whereas Luck has neither of those

[a06cc]

To quote a good movie Friday. "You win some, you lose some. But you live to fight another day" 

[BOTT]

18 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

It may affect how long they stay on the field, but it doesn't affect how they pass, how accurate they are, if they commit turnovers, etc etc... You are grasping at straws here. The QB is playing on offense and unless the defense is literally going 3 and out every drive, it won't affect the QB that much. Luck is supposed to be young and elite, he's the last person that should be affected by a tiresome defense. I said it would make him lose a few more games and I understand that, but you probably just skipped that part to the one sentence you read.

No, that one sentence just shows your lack of knowledge.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, BOTT said:

No, that one sentence just shows you lack of knowledge.

Your sentence shows your lack of English.

[BOTT]

5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You do realize Cam had half of the rushing yards for the Panthers week 1 right? Shorter field position doesn't make up for all the turnovers Luck makes as well. He's a turnover machine. He still starts slow when field position is relatively even at the beginning of games before it gets out of hand. A lot of times they score against us anyway, so we get it at the 20 or 25 because of a touchback. Are you saying Luck shouldn't have to score from the standard spot? He's a very good QB, but he's not on Cam's level. Even his run ability is worth nothing now.

Since Luck got a competent OC he's played 3 games.....was excellent in beating Denver last yr, was close to flawless in a loss last week, and took his lumps against a defense that has made pretty much all QBs look poor.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, BOTT said:

Since Luck got a competent OC he's played 3 games.....was excellent in beating Denver last yr, was close to flawless in a loss last week, and took his lumps against a defense that has made pretty much all QBs look poor.

So you brag about how excellent he was in beating Denver last year, yet make an excuse when he loses to the same team, LOL.

[BOTT]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

So you brag about how excellent he was in beating Denver last year, yet make an excuse when he loses to the same team, LOL.

What excuse did I make?  Denver has a great defense. To expect him to play that well every meeting isn't realistic.

[BOTT]

6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Your sentence shows your lack of English.

Oh no, a typo.  What a burn.

 

 "lack of English" lol

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, BOTT said:

What excuse did I make?  Denver has a great defense. To expect him to play that well every meeting isn't realistic.

You said he was excellent in beating Denver last year, then you're making an excuse how the same defense makes all QB's look poor when he lost today.

[BOTT]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

You said he was excellent in beating Denver last year, then you're making an excuse how the same defense makes all QB's look poor when he lost today.

Good lord, you are a simple.  I shall use my 4.3 speed and run away from this conversation.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

4 hours ago, YourNextGM said:

I still question his arm strength.  I just don't see a big arm when he's playing outdoors.  I thought the gm would end on an int,  but a strip fumble is on Luck too imo.  

 

 

  

 

So your one of those guys who would throw out the baby with the bath water ?

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, BOTT said:

Boy, Aaron Rodgers is struggling against the Vikings.  He ain't never goin' be no Paytin'

Russell Wilson lost to the Rams putting up 3 points who many in here said they are the worst team . I guess he should be traded (sarcasm).

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

So once again you're going to ignore the reasons why I said Cam was better than Luck? Can't dispute them huh? I didn't think so. You are a homer who can't admit when your players aren't the best at what they do. You live vicariously through Luck and the Colts, and get upset when someone who's a colt fan doesn't think that player is the best. Maybe you should actually achieve something in life. I can win my own competitions and don't need to rely on the Colts to make my life happy. So Cmon, how is Luck better than Cam? Make my day.

 

I'll make your your day when Luck loses he don't stomp his feet & walk away pouting ,    

 

You always come off as a Troll IMO .  

 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

1 hour ago, BOTT said:

Yeah, I'm trolling.  I never said that cam wasn't a hell of a QB, just that his defense is a huge factor in why they win.  

 

Or or maybe you can go back to nonsense-ing about about you bar fights, poker prowess and you 4.3 speed lol

Fookin lol@ that last paragraph. Spot on 

1 hour ago, jradMT said:

Good god what a bunch of ingrates!  As a Texan fan, I would give my left nut to have AL as my qb.  Good grief, they were in a position to drive the field and win the game, who's to say that wouldn't have happened if Miller doesn't make an amazing play.  Yeah the pick 6 was bad, but it was more of an amazing play than a brain fart by Luck.  You guys are sitting here p!ssing and moaning, and have no idea what an actual mediocre who can't win without a top ten D look like.  Do the Colts have a top ten D?  No, and they could have won today if they score a TD on that drive.  Arm strength are you guys kidding me?  Reading defenses are you kidding me too? Yes he holds the ball too long at times, and he takes chances, but the INT's are not because he isn't reading the D or going through his progressions, its because he is a risk taker and a gunslinger type, he definitely is not confused.  Good lord, I swear bring up all the bad, and the pick 6.   But what about all those rushers he evaded left and right in the second half, he was pulling hoodinis left and right out there for a couple of those drives.  And as bad as the pick was what about the 3 and 20 run he had?????   No one is talking about that.  you guys don't know what you have in him, he is damn good, way better than Eli ever was.  No he isn't Brady or Rodgers, but who is??  He is damn good probably top 5 in the league, and all these posters are whining left and right about this or that, it amazes me, seriously how spoiled some are.

Now, when you say left nut do you mean Stage Left or House Left? This is very important. 

50 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Oh no, a typo.  What a burn.

 

 "lack of English" lol

Maybe he meant that you cant put spin on the basketball when you shoot a J? 

[GoColtsWin]

4 hours ago, Hi-Tek said:

He's a turnover machine

Manning had his moments that make AL look pretty good in that regard. All quarterbacks go through high pick numbers from time to time. And it's painfully obvious you purposely leave out the fact he's a touchdown machine also. Has big game comebacks under his belt along with some of Mannings records but hey, if that's your way of viewing AL that's on you as a "fan". He just isn't Manning and that is hard for some. 

[Hi-Tek]

1 minute ago, GoColtsWin said:

Manning had his moments that make AL look pretty good in that regard. All quarterbacks go through high pick numbers from time to time. And it's painfully obvious you purposely leave out the fact he's a touchdown machine also. Has big game comebacks under his belt along with some of Mannings records but hey, if that's your way of viewing AL that's on you as a "fan". He just isn't Manning and that is hard for some.

 

 

I'm not fanatical or a fan of him or any player.

[Smoke317]

I'm a big Cam fan. Hard to say which is better.  Cam is better in some areas. Luck in others. The one thing Cam does have is a franchise building his team correctly. They're building their lines and defense first.  Culture is important in football. The culture down in Carolina is a hard nosed, run the ball, & smack you in the mouth team. That's something we've never done here.  Barring the years or games that Bob Sanders played, we've always been known as a finesse team. 

[Mile High Mike]

Don't turn on your QB guys. Come on now, I would trade any QB on the Denver roster including any Defensive player not named Von Miller and all (yes, all) of our draft picks for Andrew Luck. 

 

You have a solid QB right there. Luck had no control over who's decision it was to single cover Von Miller. Luck has no control over Indianapolis's inability to run the ball this week. Then coupled with the injuries, I'm surprised the kid didn't flat give up. Your boy has a dog in him. He's a fighter. 

 

Luck in fact reminds me a lot of his next week's opponent Phillip Rivers. Great leader, all the tools, sharp and cunning. Yet let down by the guys around him year in and out. The only difference is I hate San Diego, and Luck is still a young colt. Don't turn your back on this kid, no matter how many games you lose this season. He is a heck of a QB.

 

It may honestly be a long time before Denver gets anything close to the potential Andrew Luck gives you. Nothing is a sure thing with our QB's, Andrew is a different story. He's a sure thing if he stays healthy.

[SteelCityColt]

6 hours ago, threeflight said:

I think you either pay him in the $20 M dollar range, or trade him for a ransom.

 

 

So let's examine this in a bit of detail and explore what the Colts could/should have done. Let's start with your idea we could trade Luck away for a ransom of picks, let's say at least multiple 1st rounders with change. How bad do you think this team would be this season without Luck under centre? Probably not great, but que sera, it's just more high pick for the 2017 draft right?

 

The issue comes with which QB are you going to draft in 2017? I know it's early but all signs point to it being pretty poor in terms of QBs, which partly explains the almost suicidal rush by the Eagles/Rams to go get their guy this year. Ok no problem, let's write off 2017 too as well and trade down to stockpile even more picks. You're left with a boat load of picks and still not having the answer at QB. That's starting to sound like the Browns, and that's not good,ever.

 

The counter to this you can argue is to bring in a journeyman QB and build the rest of the team around him until "the guy" is there to take. Problem being QBs that are good enough to start in this league are rare commodities so you either accept you're going to have a substandard guy or you're going to be paying significant money for a QB who isn't the long term answer. Look at Fitzpatrick/Bradford/Tannehill/Osweiler etc. Heck look at what Cousins is getting paid!

 

So if we accept that trading him away is probably not the right move then you have to pay him. Now you're arguing we should of paid less but I really don't think that was ever a possibility. I agree Irsay crowing about the best paid player wasn't sensible but that's Irsay and I don't think it made an iota of difference. The contract he got was pretty much set by the market for a QB. It's really not that bad value when you project forward to the next wave of QB contracts. Remember in general someone has to be the market setter and will be an outlier until the next guy gets signed. Again look at what people like Osweiler/Tannehill are getting and tell me if you'd rather have them as your QB for the money they're getting?

 

Out of interest where would you place Luck as it stands now in terms of comparing him to his peers?

[RollerColt]

My goodness. That's all I can say about this thread.

 

It was a bad day for a lot of quarterbacks yesterday. Does that make them "awful"? HECK NO! Defenses are getting craftier at disrupting the offense. 

 

I've been impressed with how the defense in the NFL has evolved and still manages to be effective despite all of the new rules and regulations against them. 

[lollygagger8]

WE NEED BEEFTANK!!! 

 

[IndySouthsider]

11 hours ago, threeflight said:

This.

 

I don't think anyone here thinks Luck is not a fine QB.

 

But the highest player in the league QB?  

 

Just no.

Good thing he won't be highest paid for long then.

[YourNextGM]

I'm so tired of hearing how smart he is.  He's the dumbest smart person in the league.  

 

And Phil Simms kept talking about how he has a big arm and compared him to Elway.  Andrew Luck can only dream to throw a ball like John Elway. 

[tikyle]

10 hours ago, BOTT said:

cam is such a great passer, the Broncos game plan has been to make him throw it.

 

the rest of post is pure little boy crap who is upset he is getting called out on his lies.

Do you know how silly you sound?  The Broncos game plan for everyone is to make them throw it.  It was the same for the Colts.  They have the best pass rush in football so they crowd the line and take away the run and dare you to throw.  Oh and they may have the best secondary to go with that pass rush.

 

This Cam vs. Luck needs to stop.  Cam makes more out of less than Luck.  Cam's o-line is worse.  His receivers are worse.  His running game is probably a push if you take him out of the equation.  Luck is consistently more of an accurate passer than Cam.  That's where it begins and ends.  Luck turns the ball over more.  More fumbles and more picks.  Cam also with less of a supporting cast on offense has the best red zone offense in football last year and the best short yardage 3rd down converting offense in football.  I'm not even comparing the entire teams on this one just Cam's offense vs Luck's offense.

 

Show me where Cam has more on offense or where his offense produces less than Luck's?  We don't even have to go into wins/loses and what the D brings.  Just straight up offense vs offense.