All things Frank Gore (Merge)

[SteelCityColt]

Don't overlook what Gore gives you in pass protection either..

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

4 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Yes, I thought Gore had a decent game when you remember how bad our line was last season. 

Preach AZC. Throw the ball successfully downfield early to open up the running lanes as the game progresses. Pagano always wants an infantry attack 1st vs an ariel assault every game, but we need to flip that mindset pronto. 

 

Problem with Pagano is you can't teach that old dog new tricks .

[southwest1]

10 minutes ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

Problem with Pagano is you can't teach that old dog new tricks .

 

Yeah, he does seem set in his ways Adonis 1. I agree 100% I can be bullheaded myself too, but the difference is when something isn't working, I'm open to trying something new if it helps me win games. 

 

The strange thing about Chuck is that I get the sense that he thinks if we start slinging the ball we will abandon the run which is not true at all. Hades, Andy Reid in Philly got to multiple NFC Championship games & a SB on bubble screens for crying out loud when their running game was sporadic. Air attacks done correctly are very effective. 

 

We have Doyle, Allen, Moncrief, Hilton, & Dorsett on offense. We'd be dumb not to launch a few passes early since this is where we excel at the TE & WR spots. It's where our strength lies right now. 

[southwest1]

24 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

Don't overlook what Gore gives you in pass protection either..

Good point SCC. You can trust Gore on blitz pickup not to get Chewbacca killed. Frank proved that in San Fran already guarding Colin Kap. Plus, I think Turbin can do the same thing for Luck too with enough reps in our system & time. 

 

I can't remember Robert ever blocking for Wilson in Seattle on a long pass play, but I just have a feeling Turbin can get there too. Call it intuition if you want. 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

4 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

 

Yeah, he does seem set in his ways Adonis 1. I agree 100% I can be bullheaded myself too, but the difference is when something isn't working, I'm open to trying something new if it helps me win games. 

 

The strange thing about Chuck is that I get the sense that he thinks if we start slinging the ball we will abandon the run which is not true at all. Hades, Andy Reid in Philly got to multiple NFC Championship games & a SB on bubble screens for crying out loud when their running game was sporadic. Air attacks done correctly are very effective. 

 

Just take what the defense gives you when there all up on the line he wants to be all about power running forcing it with bad results . 

If they want to be all about the run I'm all for it maybe we can draft a good young stud next year Luck could use the help , i read in a link I provided earlier that we throw 75 % of the time its gotten us 3 seasons of 11-5 if it ain't broke don't fix it . When our running game improves we can rely on it more .

[Gavin]

29 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

Don't overlook what Gore gives you in pass protection either..

That's a bit overblown honestly. He gave up a sack game 1

[southwest1]

16 minutes ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

Just take what the defense gives you when there all up on the line he wants to be all about power running forcing it with bad results . 

If they want to be all about the run I'm all for it maybe we can draft a good young stud next year Luck could use the help , i read in a link I provided earlier that we throw 75 % of the time its gotten us 3 seasons of 11-5 if it ain't broke don't fix it . When our running game improves we can rely on it more .

Absolutely, dance with whatever formula got ya to the prom: Playoffs & 1 AFC Championship Game. Too many coaches worry about what was successful 1 yr. might not work again. Keep doing it util they stop ya, derail ya, or crush ya. 

 

There's a line in "Rambo 3" where the Col. says to Sly "we didn't make you into this warrior; it was always there. We just cleared away the rough edges." Translation: Never hide or run away from what you really are. INDY is & always will be a pass first; run later team. Don't get it twisted. Don't pretend to be something you're not & never will be Pags, Grigs, & Jimmy. 

[southwest1]

22 minutes ago, Gavin said:

That's a bit overblown honestly. He gave up a sack game 1

I get what you're saying Gavin. But, you're looking at 1 game. I'm judging Gore on his entire NFL career. Frank's pretty bleeping solid on blitz pickup & giving his field general those few vital additional seconds to get 1st downs & touchdowns in clutch situations as December inches ever closer. 

 

That's what SCC was driving at & he's exactly right in my estimation. 

[gacoop1]

Frank Gore in his prime was good, we're talking about the present, about winning.  This business is all about winning, you can't win without a young, more physical and quicker back.  Sure, Gore has that blocking capability, but that's it.  He is older folks let's face that fact, his skill sets have diminished and you all need to realize that.  Grigson/Pagano are to blame for not bringing in the chemistry the team needs and that balance has to come from the offense particularly the running back...This team is in dire need of leadership and it comes from the top....So, Colt fans brace yourself for another disappointing season.  

[Jay Kirk]

4 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Yes, I thought Gore had a decent game when you remember how bad our line was last season. 

Preach AZC. Throw the ball successfully downfield early to open up the running lanes as the game progresses. Pagano always wants an infantry attack 1st vs an ariel assault every game, but we need to flip that mindset pronto. 

 

I don't even care if Luck throws a few picks doing this because we need to gain momentum faster in the 1st half. Hades, the 1st quarter even. We always feel like we're digging our way out of a hole score board wise & it just sucks & gets old real quick to me. 

Yes Brother how many times has this been our Achilles heel ? Digging holes must stop. If our D gets healthy that will go a long way in helping that problem IMO.

[SteelCityColt]

3 hours ago, southwest1 said:

I get what you're saying Gavin. But, you're looking at 1 game. I'm judging Gore on his entire NFL career. Frank's pretty bleeping solid on blitz pickup & giving his field general those few vital additional seconds to get 1st downs & touchdowns in clutch situations as December inches ever closer. 

 

That's what SCC was driving at & he's exactly right in my estimation. 

 

Yep that's pretty much what I'm saying, one game in isolation is a bit of an unfair sample size. Yes he's not the player he was but he's still much better than what we've had in the backfield recently. I'd say we've not had a decent protection back since Addai. 

 

If I wanted to be hyperbolic, given how this team is built, I'd argue you're better off having a 6th lineman over a RB. At least it would free up Allen to be a receiver . I jest of course.

[oldunclemark]

On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 9:35 PM, bap1331 said:

Anybody notice his frustration? Looked very angry yesterday that he didnt really get to get the running game going. Not sure this is the team for Gore, our running oline is not good enough to open holes for him. Hes a power rb so hes not as fast. Honestly i think we just really need really fast runningbacks like Abdullah or Sproles to get into the hole as fast as possible with the oline deteriorating for run block. The problem with Sproles and Dullah is that they cannot block.

He's fine..we fell behind early and didn't/couldnt  use him

We'll need him this week.....unless we fall behind early again.

Cant run the ball 20 times for 100 yards when you're behind ...

 

He did as well as he could last year with the line we had...

[JohnnyUnitas19]

"Pagano always wants an infantry attack 1st vs an ariel assault every game, but we need to flip that mindset pronto. I don't even care if Luck throws a few picks doing this because we need to gain momentum faster in the 1st half. Hades, the 1st quarter even."

Problem with air   assault every game is it puts a ton of pressure on your Quarterback & the Offensive line & DEFENSES will easily adjust with nickel dime packages not to mention devastating Blitzes which EXPOSE YOUR QUARTERBACK TO HARD HITS & INJURY. A quarterback handing off to a back rarely exposes himself to injury whereas dropping back to pass   4 things can happen  and 3 are negative  1.you complete the pass 2. you throw an interception 3.you get sacked 4.You fumble  -----add in defensive players getting in late licks  even during completions you are setting up for a QB on the DL.. THE RUN SHOULD TRY TO BE ESTABLISHED THEREFORE.

 

 

 

[JohnnyUnitas19]

"Problem with Pagano is you can't teach that old dog new tricks" Does anybody on this board remember HOF  coach GEORGE ALLEN? Allen continued the practice of bringing in veteran players at all positions. He built the Super bowl bound  72 Redskins with castoffs and wily veterans but if memory serves his main running back was  the youngest offensive player at 25 yrs of age ........I like Frank Gore but we need a younger back

[JohnnyUnitas19]

 

Quote

Don't overlook what Gore gives you in pass protection either..

I would rather look at what he gives us in yards per carry

[A8bil]

2 hours ago, JohnnyUnitas19 said:

"Problem with Pagano is you can't teach that old dog new tricks" Does anybody on this board remember HOF  coach GEORGE ALLEN? Allen continued the practice of bringing in veteran players at all positions. He built the Super bowl bound  72 Redskins with castoffs and wily veterans but if memory serves his main running back was  the youngest offensive player at 25 yrs of age ........I like Frank Gore but we need a younger back

And Riggins led Washington to a SB victory at age 33, a return to the SB at age 34 and led the league in TDs at age 35.  What's your point?  I think  you want younger back for the sake of a younger back.  If Gore can't produce despite good blocking, by all means he should be replace, but you have no evidence to back your position besides Gore's age.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

On 9/14/2016 at 3:19 AM, southwest1 said:

Absolutely, dance with whatever formula got ya to the prom: Playoffs & 1 AFC Championship Game. Too many coaches worry about what was successful 1 yr. might not work again. Keep doing it util they stop ya, derail ya, or crush ya. 

 

There's a line in "Rambo 3" where the Col. says to Sly "we didn't make you into this warrior; it was always there. We just cleared away the rough edges." Translation: Never hide or run away from what you really are. INDY is & always will be a pass first; run later team. Don't get it twisted. Don't pretend to be something you're not & never will be Pags, Grigs, & Jimmy. 

 

Give that man a Cigar...

 

[adamthyst]

He doesn't give me the "Ol' Reliable" vibe anymore judging from the last game. He did look frustrated, though. I'm not sure what's going on in his head, but seeing as how Gore is one of the most consistent backs based on his stats, I'm not willing to give up on the old man yet. 

[krunk]

Venturi thinks the Broncos are not that good in the middle of their defensive line.  Thinks Gore should be able to exploit some runs there.  I believe that to be true especially if Derek Wolfe doesn't play.

[JohnnyUnitas19]

"And Riggins led Washington to a SB victory at age 33, a return to the SB at age 34 and led the league in TDs at age 35.  What's your point?" Riggins also had a better  O line ,bigger than Gore and was still producing Gore is not  producing time for a change .

[a06cc]

Frank missed a few holes today. On two plays in particular both opened on the left side. But as a team we must improve. With the speed we have on offense I have no clue why we didn't spread the field with our players. When we did the team had success today. 

[southwest1]

On September 15, 2016 at 5:35 PM, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

Give that man a Cigar...

 

Thanks for making me roar with laughter Adonis 1! You Rock! Bonus points for the Billy Murray "Stripes" tie in picture. You're my kind of guy man. 

 

I always read your posts too. You're a regular I always pay attention to. Trust me. 

[southwest1]

On September 14, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Jay Kirk said:

Yes Brother how many times has this been our Achilles heel ? Digging holes must stop. If our D gets healthy that will go a long way in helping that problem IMO.

Absolutely right Jay! Plus, it must frustrate LUCK endlessly that we always seem to start every game from behind. Like oh swell, here we go again...

[Smoke317]

Gore is still a good back but he can't be your every down back anymore. If he is, you're looking at 3 yards and a cloud of dust.  Now he would be great in a timeshare with another faster back. I think he and Turbin should split carries.  The change of pace would help both tremendously.  I remember in one of Addai's first games he struggled. Running into the backs of our lineman. We put in Rhodes on the next series and he slithered through the smallest of holes and broke into the 2nd level. Next time Addai carried he did the same thing and never looked back from there. I think Gore could use the same help with Turbin. Maybe it'll help him to see somebody hit those holes and cutback lanes that he's missing that could give him some bigger gains and possibly change the way a defense plays us the rest of the game. 

[gacoop1]

Frank Gore, Luv you Bro but's time to hang it up.  Give the younger studs some playing time, perhaps you can be a player coach on the sideline.  The team really needs quality coaching and chemistry right now...as in yesterday, last week, etc..

[JPFolks]

On 9/12/2016 at 10:35 PM, bap1331 said:

Anybody notice his frustration? Looked very angry yesterday that he didnt really get to get the running game going. Not sure this is the team for Gore, our running oline is not good enough to open holes for him. Hes a power rb so hes not as fast. Honestly i think we just really need really fast runningbacks like Abdullah or Sproles to get into the hole as fast as possible with the oline deteriorating for run block. The problem with Sproles and Dullah is that they cannot block.

The problem for Gore is that he'll be long gone when this line matures.... he's too old and they are too young...

 

That said, he scored an All-World effort TD Sunday.

[WoolMagnet]

On September 14, 2016 at 4:29 AM, gacoop1 said:

Frank Gore in his prime was good, we're talking about the present, about winning.  This business is all about winning, you can't win without a young, more physical and quicker back.  Sure, Gore has that blocking capability, but that's it.  He is older folks let's face that fact, his skill sets have diminished and you all need to realize that.  Grigson/Pagano are to blame for not bringing in the chemistry the team needs and that balance has to come from the offense particularly the running back...This team is in dire need of leadership and it comes from the top....So, Colt fans brace yourself for another disappointing season.  

Words of wisdom by...... Da Goop.

well, in an alternate universe anyway.

[crazycolt1]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 3:29 PM, JohnnyUnitas19 said:

"Problem with Pagano is you can't teach that old dog new tricks" Does anybody on this board remember HOF  coach GEORGE ALLEN? Allen continued the practice of bringing in veteran players at all positions. He built the Super bowl bound  72 Redskins with castoffs and wily veterans but if memory serves his main running back was  the youngest offensive player at 25 yrs of age ........I like Frank Gore but we need a younger back

I highly doubt that many of these forum members remember George Allen coaching.

Just for the record Allen had one division title with the Rams and one division title with the Redskins.

His preferring veteran players as a whole was not that successful IMO.

But on to your point about the RB position I do agree younger blood is needed as an addition to the veteran.

[AZColt11]

I like Gore, think he's still better than most here do BUT he aint got many more years left and we need to bring in a young, every-down back for the future.  Nobody currently on this roster IMHO.  But Frank is fine, got no problem with him.  You can't run through cement walls.  That said, even if we do find such a back he aint goin nowhere until the OL can run block.  And this is a pass-first offense anyways.

[Defjamz26]

On 9/13/2016 at 3:24 PM, krunk said:

Turbin can handle the work load.  He get's better with more carries just like Gore. He's got burst and a good one cut runner on zone runs.  Not many moves, but he can get lateral quickly.   You're right about Pagano and his affection for Gore.

Now he can't. Guys, people get released for a reason. Turbin is not a lead back on any team. That's why he got cut by the Seahawks and then Cowboys. You have to forget this terrible thinking that Grigson has instilled in so much of our fan base where people think old and/or underwhelming players are going to be something special for the Colts. Turbin isn't good.

[krunk]

28 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Now he can't. Guys, people get released for a reason. Turbin is not a lead back on any team. That's why he got cut by the Seahawks and then Cowboys. You have to forget this terrible thinking that Grigson has instilled in so much of our fan base where people think old and/or underwhelming players are going to be something special for the Colts. Turbin isn't good.

I try to be careful with you because once you don't like a particular player nothing ever changes no matter the evidence so I will keep this short. Turbin has never at any point in his career previous to the Colts held less than a 4.6 ypc average. Sometimes its been higher than that. There's more than 1 game in his career where he's held that average with 10 or more carries. You're not going to get many opportunities behind Marshawn Lynch. And sometimes you may have to go through a team or two in FA before you get the right circumstance. For what we do in the run game he'd be alright. 10-15 carries would be alright for Turbin.

[Defjamz26]

10 minutes ago, krunk said:

I try to be careful with you because one you don't likea particular player nothing ever changes no matter the evidence so I will keep this short. Turbin has never at any point in his career previous to the Colts held less than a 4.6 ypc average. Sometimes its been higher than that. There's more than 1 game in his career where he's held that average with 10 or more carries. You're not going to get many opportunities behind Marshawn Lynch. And sometimes you may have to go through a team or two in FA before you get the right circumstance. For what we do in the run game he'd be alright. 10-15 carries would be alright for Turbin.

I just don't over hype mediocre players like everyone else, including the staff does. So far I haven't been wrong.

 

4.6 YPC is a nice number but that doesn't necessarily mean he's lead back material. Don't you think if he was that good that he would have won the job in Dallas? Or why did Seattle release him at the end of his rookie deal? They knew Lynch would retire eventually. You can't really believe that Turbin is just some hidden gem that just never got the right circumstance and the Colts are going to unleash him.

 

I just don't know what it is that causes people to overrate these mediocre players. It's like Grigson has brainwashed people into believing that there is no mediocre or bad players, but just guys that had injury issues, weren't a scheme fit, didn't get enough opportunities, buried on the depth chart, overlooked because they came from a small school, etc...

 

There's no way 31 other teams just slept on Turbin. He's not good. It's not surprising that the Colts would be the fan base to think otherwise. This is the same board that couldn't wait for Adongo to get healthy and thought Delano Howell was a future starter at safety but his neck injury is why he didn't work out.

 

Grigson isn't that guy who can find these sleepers that no one else knows about. 

[Defjamz26]

22 minutes ago, krunk said:

I try to be careful with you because one you don't likea particular player nothing ever changes no matter the evidence so I will keep this short. Turbin has never at any point in his career previous to the Colts held less than a 4.6 ypc average. Sometimes its been higher than that. There's more than 1 game in his career where he's held that average with 10 or more carries. You're not going to get many opportunities behind Marshawn Lynch. And sometimes you may have to go through a team or two in FA before you get the right circumstance. For what we do in the run game he'd be alright. 10-15 carries would be alright for Turbin.

 

And don't get me wrong. I'm not against every player who isn't a star. It's just that Turbin is what he is. A serviceable backup. If he was anything more I think another team would have figured it out by now.

 

Id agree with you if we were talking about a guy like Christine Michael who was a highly touted RB coming out and was buried on the depth chart in Seattle. But that's not the case here.

[krunk]

16 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I just don't over hype mediocre players like everyone else, including the staff does. So far I haven't been wrong.

 

4.6 YPC is a nice number but that doesn't necessarily mean he's lead back material. Don't you think if he was that good that he would have won the job in Dallas? Or why did Seattle release him at the end of his rookie deal? They knew Lynch would retire eventually. You can't really believe that Turbin is just some hidden gem that just never got the right circumstance and the Colts are going to unleash him.

 

I just don't know what it is that causes people to overrate these mediocre players. It's like Grigson has brainwashed people into believing that there is no mediocre or bad players, but just guys that had injury issues, weren't a scheme fit, didn't get enough opportunities, buried on the depth chart, overlooked because they came from a small school, etc...

 

There's no way 31 other teams just slept on Turbin. He's not good. It's not surprising that the Colts would be the fan base to think otherwise. This is the same board that couldn't wait for Adongo to get healthy and thought Delano Howell was a future starter at safety but his neck injury is why he didn't work out.

 

Grigson isn't that guy who can find these sleepers that no one else knows about. 

Is that your excuse for an extreme view point?  You have such a nose for Elite talent that you disregard factual evidence?  My stance is the guy can handle 10-15 carries.  He's got evidence in his career to suggest that.   Am I lying or what?  Nobodies calling for the guy to be a Pro Bowler son.   He can be a bigger factor in what we do.  Where's the hype in what I said?   You're just extreme sometimes that's all.  It's the opposite of overhyping.  It's called undervaluing or devaluing a player based on strong levels of BIAS.

[WarGhost21]

As much as I love Gore (which is a lot of love), he just isn't a scheme fit for us. He is more of a ground-and-pound back who should receive half of a teams workload. With the Colt's passing offense, he doesn't get as many touches as he used to have. I would like a three down back from the draft along the lines of Christian McCaffrey who can put in work on the ground but is also special as a pass catching back. He would fit much better in our scheme IMO.

[Gavin]

The pad level and knee bend sucks on many of these runs plays for our O Line vs Broncos. The only O Lineman to play with good pad level and knee bend with any consistency in the run game was Mewhort as I am watching the All 22. He was able to get under defender pads a decent amount of times

[lollygagger8]

Gore and Turbin's pitch count need to be more equal 

[Defjamz26]

9 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

As much as I love Gore (which is a lot of love), he just isn't a scheme fit for us. He is more of a ground-and-pound back who should receive half of a teams workload. With the Colt's passing offense, he doesn't get as many touches as he used to have. I would like a three down back from the draft along the lines of Christian McCaffrey who can put in work on the ground but is also special as a pass catching back. He would fit much better in our scheme IMO.

I don't think the Colts necessarily need a true between the tackles guy who runs it up the gut every play. They need a guy that can do both. Like a Matt Forte. A guy who can run the outside stretch and pitches, plus catch. McCaffrey is one guy but there might be some other guys like that. I have to research the RBs for 2017 more

[Anonymous]

On September 12, 2016 at 7:35 PM, bap1331 said:

 The problem with Sproles and Dullah is that they cannot block.

On what planet can Sproles not block?

 

Ask Rivers, Brees, Foles, Bradford & Wentz and they'll all tell you that he indeed can. 

 

He's literally the best blocking RB in the NFL. That's his speciality, 3rd down RB who can pick up the blitz and also a good reciever out of the backfield. 

[Gavin]

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 6:41 PM, Defjamz26 said:

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 6:41 PM, Defjamz26 said:

I don't think the Colts necessarily need a true between the tackles guy who runs it up the gut every play. They need a guy that can do both. Like a Matt Forte. A guy who can run the outside stretch and pitches, plus catch. McCaffrey is one guy but there might be some other guys like that. I have to research the RBs for 2017 more

I don't think the Colts necessarily need a true between the tackles guy who runs it up the gut every play. They need a guy that can do both. Like a Matt Forte. A guy who can run the outside stretch and pitches, plus catch. McCaffrey is one guy but there might be some other guys like that. I have to research the RBs for 2017 more

We have 2 Backs that can run those plays. Our running backs are all talented from Gore on down to Todman. None of them are the real problem. Gore isn't a crafty Back though and he wont deviate from where the designed run is supposed to go. Turbin is more shifty and does a little more of that and even has more power. All our Backs can get outside and on pitch and catch. There is multiple layers to why we aren't running the ball well:

 

 

1. Lack of knee bend and getting under Defenders pads. Our O Lineman most of the time are not getting thrown around and tossed aside in the run game. They are however in a stalemate because of pad level

 

2.Hand placement is often times outside of shoulders with our O Lineman. The exception is Mewhort at times. Hands outside the shoulders allow for a D Lineman to get his hands up into the chest of an O Lineman

 

3.On combo blocks there has been times where the Center or Guard comes off the D Lineman late cause he has his head turned towards the D Lineman instead of up on the linebacker so the Guard comes off late to the Linebacker

 

4.Lack of commitment in Games/TC and most likely practices to I believe. If you don't get much practice of the fundamentals of run blocking you wont get better. You don't have to be the most physical or the strongest O Lineman to win because that's not what wins in the first place. Strength and physicality helps but ya cant win with it alone. Ya win with fundamentals