Luck and receivers: 406 yards, 4TDs. Runners: 61 yards, 0 TDs

[throwing BBZ]

10 hours ago, DalTXColtsFan said:

And defense makes Stafford, Riddick and Abdullah (not to mention Tate, Jones and Boldin) look like the best offense in NFL history.

 

How long have Colts fans had to endure teams that could put up the NFL's best passing attack but have no running game or defense?

 

I'm getting a little tired of it.

 

 Mewhort is a disaster in the run game. Zero versatility. The guy just can`t move well enough to perform beyond right in front of himself. A run game Killer.
 And a better man than Reitz is required also.
 Good is a 355lb tub. Traps or sweeps - forget about it. Lose the weight dude!
  Perry is is bad bad bad. Pray Art is much better.
  He is a Grigs, Chuck kinda guy, just like to slow to get it done Morrison.
   You can love their grit and character All Day, but in the end, just  Guaranteed holes in your D, Wasted draft picks. JMO of course.
 

[our_dbs_rock]

7 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Well, it kind of does.  Mainly because of the CB situation the safeties had to stay back more instead of coming up to support the run.  Not to mention that a CB like Davis is also excellent at supporting the run.  

 

I'm not syaing they played well or even average or even below average the D was horrid, but football is a team game it's not like the CBs and safeties are only responsibile for the passing game and Dline and LBers are only responsible for the running game.  When you are weak in one area it affects all the other areas as well... and when you are extremely weak in one area it affects all the other areas even more so.

 

If your relying on your DBs to make tackles in the running game then you have some serious issues.  That means the RB is making it to the second level and running full speed at usually smaller guys and that is when injuries happ.......ohhhhhhhhhh.  That also means the D is giving up 4+ ypc.

[SVFD Colts Fan]

10 hours ago, ColtsSouljah said:

 

That does not explain the run defense being absolutely gashed. Our guys were out of position, showed no discipline, and could not tackle. None of that has anything to do with injuries to dbs.

Geathers and Green are supposedly run stoppers so it did have some effect on the run d.

 

[PeterBowman]

regarding the Run D, there were many time the D had them wedged in to make stops in the backfield for a loss only to have the rb dance away.

[oldunclemark]

11 hours ago, DalTXColtsFan said:

And defense makes Stafford, Riddick and Abdullah (not to mention Tate, Jones and Boldin) look like the best offense in NFL history.

 

How long have Colts fans had to endure teams that could put up the NFL's best passing attack but have no running game or defense?

 

I'm getting a little tired of it.

We trailed all day...They didn't want to run...Gore averaged 4 yards a carry, right?

We'll be fine....on offense.

 

Defense? Not so much

[PeterBowman]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

We trailed all day...They didn't want to run...Gore averaged 4 yards a carry, right?

We'll be fine....on offense.

 

Defense? Not so much

unfortunately until the Colts get some of their playmakers on D back, this will be the case. I thought the DBs themselves did well coverage wise overall (a couple hiccups here and there). The BIG issue was covering running backs out of the backfield and screens....those were the killers all day.

[SVFD Colts Fan]

10 minutes ago, our_dbs_rock said:

 

If your relying on your DBs to make tackles in the running game then you have some serious issues.  That means the RB is making it to the second level and running full speed at usually smaller guys and that is when injuries happ.......ohhhhhhhhhh.  That also means the D is giving up 4+ ypc.

When your best cornerbacks are on the field and can cover a safety can go up and load the box. Hence a DB to help with the run game. If I recall Vontae likes to sniff out some screens which is basically a run play ie. the Bengals game a few years ago.

[oldunclemark]

2 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

unfortunately until the Colts get some of their playmakers on D back, this will be the case. I thought the DBs themselves did well coverage wise overall (a couple hiccups here and there). The BIG issue was covering running backs out of the backfield and screens....those were the killers all day.

Peter.....and, correct me if I'm wrong, that comes from playing backups and playing much more zone because 3rd stringers cant stick WRs man-to-man becayuse they are 3rd stringers..

 

It was aggravating to see their backs 'leak' out of the backfield all alone after our defensive secondary had dropped back..

You know Denver's going to do that with Anderson

[PeterBowman]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

Peter.....and, correct me if I'm wrong, that comes from playing backups and playing much more zone because 3rd stringers cant stick WRs man-to-man becayuse they are 3rd stringers..

 

It was aggravating to see their backs 'leak' out of the backfield all alone after our defensive secondary had dropped back..

You know Denver's going to do that with Anderson

I believe you're right, though I'll say luckily he's not NEARLY as shifty as Riddick and Abdullah.

[lollygagger8]

11 hours ago, krunk said:

I haven't wanted to say it before, but Gore looks old out there. Had some decent runs out there later on but he doesnt have any speed left

 

I agree unfortunately. Turbin and Gore's pitch count need to be more even. 

[Myles]

The offense better get their stuff together early in games.   I feel the Colts will need the "Manning" defense this year.  Score early and often so that the other team gives up on the run.  

 

[oldunclemark]

4 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

I believe you're right, though I'll say luckily he's not NEARLY as shifty as Riddick and Abdullah.

Good news is..it looks like Demariyus Thomas is out

[our_dbs_rock]

5 minutes ago, SVFD Colts Fan said:

When your best cornerbacks are on the field and can cover a safety can go up and load the box. Hence a DB to help with the run game. If I recall Vontae likes to sniff out some screens which is basically a run play ie. the Bengals game a few years ago.

 

Yes that was a great play, but Vontae has also been hurt on those plays and missed time.  Do you really want your #1 corner having to make those plays consistently because your linemen and LB are missing tackles?

[oldunclemark]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

The offense better get their stuff together early in games.   I feel the Colts will need the "Manning" defense this year.  Score early and often so that the other team gives up on the run.  

 

To play that way..as I know you know...we need pass rushers who can 'close'; the game..

...I think we may have to blitz more..because we cant cover with subs

[krunk]

5 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Good news is..it looks like Demariyus Thomas is out

I thought Cromartie would have shut DT down anyway, but even better news if he doesn't play.  DT has problems against good press man corners.

[PeterBowman]

Just now, krunk said:

I thought Cromartie would have shut DT down anyway, but even better news if he doesn't play.  DT has problems against good press man corners.

yeah Vontae usually makes him disappear.

[Myles]

6 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

To play that way..as I know you know...we need pass rushers who can 'close'; the game..

...I think we may have to blitz more..because we cant cover with subs

That is true, but it also can make a mediocre pass rusher look good.  It also help the coverage get INT's.

Not ideally what I want to see, but we can't let teams get a lead and use their running games.  

I think Maurice Jones Drew is wanting to get back with the Jags for 2 games against the Colts this year.  

[Coffeedrinker]

5 minutes ago, our_dbs_rock said:

 

If your relying on your DBs to make tackles in the running game then you have some serious issues.  That means the RB is making it to the second level and running full speed at usually smaller guys and that is when injuries happ.......ohhhhhhhhhh.  That also means the D is giving up 4+ ypc.

That is a HS football mentality.  Plus it does not take into consideration how the defense plays together.  Even if the CBs are not asked to if you have to change the responsibility of the CBs because they are not as good then you have to change the responsibility of the LBers and safeties which means they can't do what they would normally do.  And when you change the responsibility of the LBers you have to change the responsibilities of the Dline.

 

It's a team game.

[our_dbs_rock]

Just now, Coffeedrinker said:

That is a HS football mentality.  Plus it does not take into consideration how the defense plays together.  Even if the CBs are not asked to if you have to change the responsibility of the CBs because they are not as good then you have to change the responsibility of the LBers and safeties which means they can't do what they would normally do.  And when you change the responsibility of the LBers you have to change the responsibilities of the Dline.

 

It's a team game.

 

If you believe having different dbs would have improved the fundamentals of tackling of the rest of the team, you go ahead and believe that. 

 

If the team is forced to put an extra man in the box to stop the run, then you are already losing the battle and letting the other team dictate the game.

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, our_dbs_rock said:

 

If you believe having different dbs would have improved the fundamentals of tackling of the rest of the team, you go ahead and believe that. 

 

If the team is forced to put an extra man in the box to stop the run, then you are already losing the battle and letting the other team dictate the game.

I think you have it right.   I don't think, even the most optimistic, Colts fans thought when healthy that this would be a top 15 defense this season.   Throw in an injury or 2 and it is going to be a long season.  

[our_dbs_rock]

Just now, Myles said:

I think you have it right.   I don't think, even the most optimistic, Colts fans thought when healthy that this would be a top 15 defense this season.   Throw in an injury or 2 and it is going to be a long season.  

 

I think it could be, if the D could get healthy and they find another team willing to trade a top tier pass rusher.  But I think the chances of that happening are about the same as everyone of the forum getting along.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

2 hours ago, Iancolts said:

Grigson I'm not sure how he still has a job. He is in year 5 and all of the salary cap money is spent.  He signs good contracts but man did he ruin this team.

 

Colts will have ~$50mil in salary cap going into 2017 offseason, not sure where you heard that it was all spent, hardly any was spent in FA this year.

[Jim H.]

Didn't get to watch the game as we were on the road.  Listened to it on XM.  Lamey was apoplectic over all the missed tackles. 

[Myles]

Is there a teams' defense that you would not trade the Colts defense for straight up?    

 

[Valpo2004]

Defense made Riddick look like Barry Sanders.

 

[krunk]

1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I thought Gore looked ok.  I don't ever remember him being a jump cut type runner, more of a hit the crease and lower the shoulder type and I think he did that.  If the d had him stopped for a 2 yard gain he would move the pile for a 4 yard gain.

 

The player I think your comment apply to is Mathis... no burst off the snap, no moves once engaged, he made a nice tackle downfield on a RB in the first half but on passing plays all he did was run upfield

I felt like Gore had more burst in the first half of last year and has gotten a bit slower.  Still makes plays, but you can see the age more now.   I saw what you saw with Mathis too.  I'm going to give that a little more time though because I know he hasn't played any meaningful football in a month.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, our_dbs_rock said:

 

If you believe having different dbs would have improved the fundamentals of tackling of the rest of the team, you go ahead and believe that. 

 

If the team is forced to put an extra man in the box to stop the run, then you are already losing the battle and letting the other team dictate the game.

Why are you changing your argument?  At first it was Dbs making the tackle and now it's tackling fundamentals.  Those are two different things.

 

And no, putting an extra man in the box does not mean the other team is dictating the game.  believe it or not, even excellent defensive put an extra man or even extra men in the box some times.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

I felt like Gore had more burst in the first half of last year and has gotten a bit slower.  Still makes plays, but you can see the age more now.   I saw what you saw with Mathis too.  I'm going to give that a little more time though because I know he hasn't played any meaningful football in a month.

You could be right about Gore...But when a RB has a long run of 9 yards and an average of 4.2, that to mean is an effective RB.

[A8bil]

AP 28   19 carries, 31 yds

D. Murray  13 carries, 42 yds

McCoy  16 carries, 58 yds

Ez. Elliot 20 carries, 51 yds

Gore 14 carries 59 yds

R Matthews 22 carries, 77 yds

 

You guys are the most overreacting bunch I have seen in a long time.  The Colts came out and could not execute, particularly in the passing game.  That allowed the Lions to stack the box on Gore.  He was 6 for 17 in the first half.

 

 In the second half, playing from behind, Luck opened it up and guess what, Gore was 8 for 42 (5.25 ypc), but they were playing from behind so he did not get many touches.  Gore only had 3 touches on Detroit's side of the field.  That is not going to translate to much scoring for any RB. The Colts as  team were not executing, and everyone in the backfield struggled as a result, just like multiple feature backs struggled this weekend (see above).  There will come a day when Gore is too old to play, but that day is not now.  When Gore can no longer get it done, he'll tell you and the coaches will tell you.  Until then, enough of the prognosticating.

 

[our_dbs_rock]

20 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Why are you changing your argument?  At first it was Dbs making the tackle and now it's tackling fundamentals.  Those are two different things.

 

And no, putting an extra man in the box does not mean the other team is dictating the game.  believe it or not, even excellent defensive put an extra man or even extra men in the box some times.

 

Ummm, no.  Your grasping at straws trying to make your argument.  I stated you don't want to rely your dbs to have to make tackles in the running game.  Which leads to why would a db have to be relied on to make tackles?  Because the lineman and linebackers consistently missed tackles that allowed the other team to reach the dbs. 

 

 

[Myles]

Either way, without much improved play, this defense is going to have every opposing offense licking their chops.  

[King Colt]

Every football game consists of four quarters, not two. From 3 & out, 3 & out, 3 & out, filed goal to lighting up the pass game and putting TDs on the board something is wrong in the spirit of the team. The Lions are one of how many NFL teams that have never appeared in a Super Bowl and to lose to them in Indy is a wuss ball of major proportion.

[A8bil]

38 minutes ago, King Colt said:

Every football game consists of four quarters, not two. From 3 & out, 3 & out, 3 & out, filed goal to lighting up the pass game and putting TDs on the board something is wrong in the spirit of the team. The Lions are one of how many NFL teams that have never appeared in a Super Bowl and to lose to them in Indy is a wuss ball of major proportion.

Or....maybe, it's a flawed game plan to start the game.  Or...it's the result of a QB who hasn't played live NFL action for nearly a year.   Or, it's a bunch of new players trying to learn to play together. Or, ...no need to overreact to the first game of the season.

[DipsyDoodles]

They need to get Turbin more looks. That 3rd down where he juked two defenders and got enough yardage was something we haven't seen much of in recent years

[Coffeedrinker]

4 hours ago, our_dbs_rock said:

 

Ummm, no.  Your grasping at straws trying to make your argument.  I stated you don't want to rely your dbs to have to make tackles in the running game.  Which leads to why would a db have to be relied on to make tackles?  Because the lineman and linebackers consistently missed tackles that allowed the other team to reach the dbs. 

 

 

You should read your own post.  I have stated that CBs have to support the running game, of which you puleed out the CBS should be relied on to stop the running game, blah, blah blah.  So when I knock that point down by explaining how football is team game and when lesser CBs are in there that changes the entire defense, including how they can support the run.  then you state, "If you believe having different dbs would have improved the fundamentals of tackling of the rest of the team, you go ahead and believe that."... that is called changing your argument.  There was some poor tackling but the majority of the yards came, not from poor tackling, but because there wasn't a guy there in the first place to stop him.  That is because the injuries in the secondary affected the defense.

[our_dbs_rock]

1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

You should read your own post.  I have stated that CBs have to support the running game, of which you puleed out the CBS should be relied on to stop the running game, blah, blah blah.  So when I knock that point down by explaining how football is team game and when lesser CBs are in there that changes the entire defense, including how they can support the run.  then you state, "If you believe having different dbs would have improved the fundamentals of tackling of the rest of the team, you go ahead and believe that."... that is called changing your argument.  There was some poor tackling but the majority of the yards came, not from poor tackling, but because there wasn't a guy there in the first place to stop him.  That is because the injuries in the secondary affected the defense.

 

Yes, you figured it out you have the keys to success.  Ignore what actually happened and just believe you are right.  You are the one who is grasping at straws to try to win a debate on the internet.  Apparently this is a lot more important to you than the rest of the world.  How one can believe that a running back breaking multiple tackles in the backfield to gain 10+ yards is a result of backup dbs, I will never know.  And again, I never changed my argument.  Also, I'm glad you informed me that football is a team sport, why you are not working for the Colts with that vast amount of insight I will never know.

[BProland85]

19 hours ago, Ja'Crispy said:

We are a finesse offense.  We are not a ground and pound offense.  We need to accept this and thrive in it. 

The only way I see the Colts transitioning into more of a ground and pound type of offense is if they spend 2 high draft picks on bulldozing type runners and having an enforcing 1 2 punch.

 

I don't expect that to happen next draft, but I do hope that Indy spends a decently high pick (round 3 or 4) on a talented RB to help take some pressure off Luck. Maybe even draft 2 RBs with how good the class is looking. From there the OL and Philbin will just need to practice more run blocking and being more effective there.

[BOTT]

10 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

While I agree the run game wasn't the best, it did enough to keep the defense honest. Other than that, the 406 passing yards and 4 touchdowns easily makes up for what was lacking in the running department. While the defense was horrific, you have to remember that by the end of the game we only had 5 healthy members of the secondary who had to play every single down. Fatigue and inexperience definitely played a part in the final drive by the Lions.

The new DC could have had someone pay attention to Theo Riddick on that last drive.  He had only been killing the colts all day.

[Lawrence Owen]

21 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Mewhort is a disaster in the run game. Zero versatility. The guy just can`t move well enough to perform beyond right in front of himself. A run game Killer.
 And a better man than Reitz is required also.
 Good is a 355lb tub. Traps or sweeps - forget about it. Lose the weight dude!
  Perry is is bad bad bad. Pray Art is much better.
  He is a Grigs, Chuck kinda guy, just like to slow to get it done Morrison.
   You can love their grit and character All Day, but in the end, just  Guaranteed holes in your D, Wasted draft picks. JMO of course.
 

I agree mewhort is not good in the run game,..but you are just showing horrible judgement on Good.  you see 355lb and just say it's too heavy, and made judgements on that without backing it up with how he ACTUALLY did in playing.

Fact is, he was lined up against one of the best NT's in the NFL , Ngata, most of the night.  And Ngata was shut out.  Good manhandled him like he manhandled Fletcher Cox in the Eagles game.   He pushed them both around like rag dolls in the run game, and never got past him in the pass game.   The ONLY time i even recal Ngata's name brought up was a tipped pass that Luck threw to low.   Fact is so far this season, Good is the best playing lineman we have.  On either side of the ball. And it's not even close.

So just because you see a higher weight, I'd suggest before making judgements, watch the guy play first.  Some guys handle that kind of weight well, and use it to thier advantage.

[krunk]

50 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

I agree mewhort is not good in the run game,..but you are just showing horrible judgement on Good.  you see 355lb and just say it's too heavy, and made judgements on that without backing it up with how he ACTUALLY did in playing.

Fact is, he was lined up against one of the best NT's in the NFL , Ngata, most of the night.  And Ngata was shut out.  Good manhandled him like he manhandled Fletcher Cox in the Eagles game.   He pushed them both around like rag dolls in the run game, and never got past him in the pass game.   The ONLY time i even recal Ngata's name brought up was a tipped pass that Luck threw to low.   Fact is so far this season, Good is the best playing lineman we have.  On either side of the ball. And it's not even close.

So just because you see a higher weight, I'd suggest before making judgements, watch the guy play first.  Some guys handle that kind of weight well, and use it to thier advantage.

no one pays attention to bbz. Posts are always on another planet. I think he might be 14 years old or something