Greg Toler

[kycoltsfan]

Honestly, I think is time to give Josh Thomas some playtime and see how he looks in comparison.

 

 

[Narcosys]

Oh how swift the tides change.  I sit here and laugh at the fickleness of these forums at times.  One day Toler is great, the next he has never been good.  One day Whalen is the worst player in the world, the next everyone has believed in him from the beginning. 

 

Ha HaHaHa HA!

[NBColtsFanatic]

Should've just kept Jerraud Powers IMO.

[kycoltsfan]

Phil Simms actually called him a good CB. What's Phil been smokin?

 

Yeah I caught that as well, and what was really funny is Sims said that not TWO plays later that he made a huge error.

[John Waylon]

And let's not give any credit (again) to the other team for their skill set or to Peyton for that heck of a play on the TD.

Beat it, nerds.

Sure. It was a good route, a good throw and a good catch.

But if you don't think toler's poor coverage had absolutely nothing to do with that, you're just wrong. Of that play, 80% of it was toler simply losing his guy and allowing that pass to come down, and then allowing it to go to the house.

I really cannot understand the crowd who still defend toler at this point. He gets targeted all day because his coverage is unreliable at best, and good receivers and QBs eventually burn him.

That said, his game yesterday was better compared to his usual effort, especially the first half.

As to the question of what can we do? All we can do now is ride it out. We brought him to the table knowing what he is and now we have to eat with him. It's not we hadn't seen this from him before. He's always been feast or famine, and as time has gone on the feasts with him have gotten fewer and farther between.

[kycoltsfan]

Toler is not a horrible CB, he might be pretty good in a zone setup where good pursuit and tackle ability is what you need most, but if you are going to do lots of man coverage he is just not the guy to do that role.  His ability to stick close to receivers is just not consistent enough.

[Superman]

Toler has been getting beat a lot this year.  And after his play last year I thought he was going to make another jump this and that he had Davis would be a top CB duo in the league.  But Toler is what he is.  When the catch is made in front of him, he's a solid tackler and limits YAC.  But when a receiver runs past him, he's late getting out of his back pedal and turning (the poor technique Gavin is talking about) and he loses a lot of ground in that transition.  Toler is playing like a good zone corner this year instead of playing like a good man corner.

 

As far as Lowery goes, he's okay, I don't know if I'd say he's played good.  That TD pass to Sanders last night was as much on Lowery as it was on Toler because Lowery was late coming over to that side.  I don't know what he saw that made in freeze in the middle of the field but he stayed there too long and opened up Sanders deep.

 

He's not the first safety that Peyton Manning has frozen in the middle of the field.

[Coffeedrinker]

He's not the first safety that Peyton Manning has frozen in the middle of the field.

True.  On the flip side of that though is Peyton Manning is not the first QB that has caused Lowery to be slow over the top this year.

[Superman]

True.  On the flip side of that though is Peyton Manning is not the first QB that has caused Lowery to be slow over the top this year.

 

What other plays are you thinking of? I think he's been pretty good over the top. I might be mistaken, but I think it was Colt Anderson who misplayed the deep ball in the Pats game.

[Coffeedrinker]

What other plays are you thinking of? I think he's been pretty good over the top. I might be mistaken, but I think it was Colt Anderson who misplayed the deep ball in the Pats game.

I don't remember any specific plays, just remember thinking multiple times this year that the safety was late getting over the top and then seeing the replay and see it was Lowery on that side.

[Smash Mouth]

Toler is a good corner. He is picked on because Davis is better. Toler is VERY AGGRESSIVE sometimes to his own detriment! I would personally like to see him watch the deep ball more and stop biting on double move! Because he is aggressive this may be hard.

If you're characterizing him as aggressive, then his fault is that he's reckless.  

[John Waylon]

Tim Jennings just became available.

Of course I'm kidding.

[ProblChld32]

He keeps getting picked on by quarterbacks because they know he's an easy targets. What do you do? Replace him? Definitely not with butler. Can't keep letting these qbs have a field day every week.

 

Toler is better than most give him credit for. He fits perfect in a press man scheme which we play. My only knock on him is he takes alot of chances. We just dont have the safety help to mask that. 

[Nesjan3]

He is serviceable.. he does get torched an awful lot though its pretty annoying, just like what has happens a lot when he is covering recievers, a lot of luck, slight overthrows, dopped balls etc is what is keeping him from being even worse. Unfortunately were stuck with him though, unless Smith comes back and does enough to take his spot, or he gets injured and Thomas is forced in

[Steamboat_Shaun]

He's the only real "soft" spot in the secondary, so teams are going to attack him. He's a victim of the numbers game, gets targeted often because QBs would rather not test Vontae or our safeties. It's the hardest position on the field to play, especially at a consistent level, and it's not like he's getting beat by scrubs. Often times he's covering the #2 receiver. Since I don't see us signing Revis or Sherman this season, the best hope is that Manusky realizes the issue with Toler, and starts giving him a bit of safety help. He would definitely benefit from it.

[bap1331]

I thought Toler played alot better this game than in previous games. Hopefully this trend will continue.

I guess there is an alternate universe for colts fans where toler played solid and Andre Johnson ran for 120 yards and 3 touchdowns.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Of course you throw at Toler but that's because he is not good but ya still have to throw at Davis, your going to target Toler because he is not very good, I mean Davis being way better overall then Toler will give teams reason to throw at Toler a bit more but Toler being not very good has more of an affect

I was a defensive back for a D1 university certainly doesn't make me an expert, but I may know a thing or 2 about playing DB, IMO Toler IS a GOOD CB! Your free to your opinion!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

If you're characterizing him as aggressive, then his fault is that he's reckless.  

correct sometimes RECKLESS guys like him you have to know will give you some and then take some away.

[runthepost]

Toler has been getting beat a lot this year. And after his play last year I thought he was going to make another jump this and that he had Davis would be a top CB duo in the league. But Toler is what he is. When the catch is made in front of him, he's a solid tackler and limits YAC. But when a receiver runs past him, he's late getting out of his back pedal and turning (the poor technique Gavin is talking about) and he loses a lot of ground in that transition. Toler is playing like a good zone corner this year instead of playing like a good man corner.

As far as Lowery goes, he's okay, I don't know if I'd say he's played good. That TD pass to Sanders last night was as much on Lowery as it was on Toler because Lowery was late coming over to that side. I don't know what he saw that made in freeze in the middle of the field but he stayed there too long and opened up Sanders deep.

Did you honestly think Greg toler and Vontae Davis would be a top CB duo???

[Superman]

Toler is better than most give him credit for. He fits perfect in a press man scheme which we play. My only knock on him is he takes alot of chances. We just dont have the safety help to mask that. 

 

He was better. He did fit well. He's been mostly bad this year. I gave him a break early on because of his injury, but even in a game like Sunday's where he made some plays, he still got beat repeatedly. 

[dgambill]

Greg Toler has definitely had a down year no doubt about it. That said QBs always are looking for matchups....the NFL is turning into the NBA more and more every day with the way the passing game works. Sanders on Toler is a huge mismatch.....Sanders on just about any #2 CB is a mismatch. As a #2 corner Toler has been pretty good in the past...this year he has not been up to that standard but he is always going to look weak opposite a top 5 corner like Vontae.  Teams are going to go in game planning against him because they know its hard to throw on Davis....they call and run plays with Toler being the #1 option to throw at. He does get picked on...because he is the weaker link in the secondary....but that doesn't mean he is terrible. Unfortanately his play has been aggressive...and always has been and so when he gets beat it usually is big...instead of keeping things in front of him etc. We have to remember we play a lot of man press coverage because Vontae excels at that and it helps our pass rush....but that doesn't mean that is Gregs strength...the scheme might not be his strong suit but he does pretty good for stretches.  I think if you compare him against other teams #2 corner he would end up being pretty avg. Few teams outside say the Jets and Broncos have lock down corners all over the field or have incredible cover safeties like Seattle to cover up their limitations opposite their #1 corner. Toler is aggressive....perhaps too aggressive for his skill set...but he isn't the worst corner we've ever had here...if he can regain form from 2014 we can have one of the best corner duos in the league.

[buccolts]

Did you honestly think Greg toler and Vontae Davis would be a top CB duo???

Read it again.

It's clearly in there.

[ProblChld32]

He was better. He did fit well. He's been mostly bad this year. I gave him a break early on because of his injury, but even in a game like Sunday's where he made some plays, he still got beat repeatedly. 

 

Because of his aggressive style of play yes he did get beat a few times. But i felt that without Mike Adams back there it looked much worse than it was. Adams usually is the one to "help" any time he does get beat. 

[Coffeedrinker]

Did you honestly think Greg toler and Vontae Davis would be a top CB duo???

After last year yes.  Toler played excellent all of last year.

[ztboiler]

Greg Toler has definitely had a down year no doubt about it. That said QBs always are looking for matchups....the NFL is turning into the NBA more and more every day with the way the passing game works. Sanders on Toler is a huge mismatch.....Sanders on just about any #2 CB is a mismatch. As a #2 corner Toler has been pretty good in the past...this year he has not been up to that standard but he is always going to look weak opposite a top 5 corner like Vontae.  Teams are going to go in game planning against him because they know its hard to throw on Davis....they call and run plays with Toler being the #1 option to throw at. He does get picked on...because he is the weaker link in the secondary....but that doesn't mean he is terrible. Unfortanately his play has been aggressive...and always has been and so when he gets beat it usually is big...instead of keeping things in front of him etc. We have to remember we play a lot of man press coverage because Vontae excels at that and it helps our pass rush....but that doesn't mean that is Gregs strength...the scheme might not be his strong suit but he does pretty good for stretches.  I think if you compare him against other teams #2 corner he would end up being pretty avg. Few teams outside say the Jets and Broncos have lock down corners all over the field or have incredible cover safeties like Seattle to cover up their limitations opposite their #1 corner. Toler is aggressive....perhaps too aggressive for his skill set...but he isn't the worst corner we've ever had here...if he can regain form from 2014 we can have one of the best corner duos in the league.

Definitely a post with much insight - the weaker link will always be more exposed.  

 

I disagree about your characterization of Toler's strengths/weaknesses.  I think it's probably the other way around.  His strength is press man.  If he can get his hands on you, he's pretty good (or has been in the past) - which is why he tends to get penalties called - he's a handsy guy that will use his strength past the area where it's legal.  He struggles in off-man when he has to turn and run, so if he gives enough cushion to be safe he'll give up the easy slant or underneath route.  If he plays the short stuff tight, he has no margin for error over the top.  He is functional in zone, but nothing special.

[DougDew]

CB was a priority last offseason and will be again this coming offseason.

Toler has earned his level of compensation, not accounting for injuries. he played well last year and made a few key interceptions IIRC. He will be replaced when his contract expires, which I think is at the end of this season.

Some will blame Grigson again if he doesn't go OL early in the draft. But pass rusher and CB are actually higher priorities. And good man cover CBs go early in the draft.

[Jim H.]

Yes it does plan an simple, would you rather throw in the direction of Davis or Toler? IMO and most Davis is better than Toler thus you throw at Toler.

Let's not wear out the obvious.  :^)

[Superman]

Because of his aggressive style of play yes he did get beat a few times. But i felt that without Mike Adams back there it looked much worse than it was. Adams usually is the one to "help" any time he does get beat. 

 

Just talking about Toler getting beat, it happens too much. Adams can help anyone over the top, we need a second corner who doesn't need so much help.

 

By the way, Toler also gets beat underneath. It's not like he's gambling and making plays every once in a while. He's mostly just getting beat.

[throwing BBZ]

He keeps getting picked on by quarterbacks because they know he's an easy targets. What do you do? Replace him? Definitely not with butler. Can't keep letting these qbs have a field day every week.

 

 Our secondary needs a Pass Rush. period!

[Jackie Daytona]

Yes it does plan an simple, would you rather throw in the direction of Davis or Toler? IMO and most Davis is better than Toler thus you throw at Toler.

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly how it works.

[dgambill]

Definitely a post with much insight - the weaker link will always be more exposed.  

 

I disagree about your characterization of Toler's strengths/weaknesses.  I think it's probably the other way around.  His strength is press man.  If he can get his hands on you, he's pretty good (or has been in the past) - which is why he tends to get penalties called - he's a handsy guy that will use his strength past the area where it's legal.  He struggles in off-man when he has to turn and run, so if he gives enough cushion to be safe he'll give up the easy slant or underneath route.  If he plays the short stuff tight, he has no margin for error over the top.  He is functional in zone, but nothing special.

I think your probably right....and maybe his injuries has limited his ability to get up tight on guys like he likes and stick....but anytime a team has a #2 wr of Sanders ilk or a team moves their #1 wr like say Hopkins over to him they are going to have a mismatch and attack him. However when we play teams like Tennessee and Jacksonville and TB he should be alright. If he is still struggling then people have a much stronger argument about replacing the guy....that said I expect him to struggle against Pittsburgh and perhaps Atlanta who have great passing offenses. At this point we have who we have...I doubt he is back next year unless he finishes strong to the season or we sign him at a reasonable rate. There isn't a magical genie that will bring in some great player off the street...we just need to circle the wagons and everyone examine their own play and get better. I'll tell you what though...if we are healthy going into the playoffs...nobody is going to want to come into Lucas Oil Stadium and play us...better record or not....and I doubt anyone would want to see us in the Divisional Rd either...especially Denver or Cincy considering our history with each.

[Gavin]

Meh 7 more games then he is gone, 8 if we have a playoff game

[2bcoltfan]

Meh 7 more games then he is gone, 8 if we have a playoff game

9 if we win that playoff game.

[WoolMagnet]

Is he injured in any way?

I remember , was it last year, everyone was on him for at least half the year. Then he started ballin' and we found out he had little nagging injuries half the year. (Groin, hamstring or something)

[runthepost]

Is he injured in any way?

I remember , was it last year, everyone was on him for at least half the year. Then he started ballin' and we found out he had little nagging injuries half the year. (Groin, hamstring or something)

Na he just isn't that good. He gave up 8 TDs last year and 3 in 1 game. QBs had a passer rating of 103.2 when throwing to Toler. Only thing that was balling was the receiver that went against him.

[RockThatBlue]

He's the only CB in the league to get targeted, and beaten? Or do people not watch other games. It's a passing league. But I get it. Why can't we just get Revis to tandem with Vontae. I'm sure there is a reason.....

Don't have to have 2 lockdown corners. But we could certainly find somebody better than Toler. I liked Toler in previous years but he's been just awful this year. An average CB would be an improvement.

[krunk]

Maybe call Ike Taylor up from retirement. A lot of his stuff was injury related when he left. I'm just tossing around ideas here. He might even give us more than Toler right now.

[Narcosys]

Toler is better than most give him credit for. He fits perfect in a press man scheme which we play. My only knock on him is he takes alot of chances. We just dont have the safety help to mask that.

He's much slower than anyone he goes against as well. That's why he is always beat deep and get PI's to prefer TD's.

[coltsfeva]

Seems the entire secondary has had lapses this year where someone was wide open. Don't kn ow if that is injury, communication, scheme or technique. It could also be lack of pass rush, although one could argue good secondary play produces a better pass rush.

Whether it is exclusively Toler or the secondary play in general, coverage has to be more consistent, to give us any shot in the playoffs.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

If it's just because he's so aggressive you would think he would come up with more picks.  

 

Quite frankly he's had too easily no matter what route you are running.

 

We need a better CB#2

Agressive isn't always a good gauge of a CB INT's, pass's defended are, INT's are great he plays the man more than the ball thus less INT's.