Food For Thought: Grigson on Hot Seat too? (Link Inside)

[Jason_]

Ok terrible might be a stretch, how about under performing? Is that fair enough or still too

Much?

 

yes, terrible was a huge stretch.  

 

I don't think we can put Jones in any category yet because he's been injured.  In that regard, yes signing him has been underwhelming, but there was no way to anticipate that.  

 

RJF was adequate...not great..he didn't turn into the starter that they'd hoped he'd be but he was serviceable for the time he was here, which ultimately was all that was needed.

 

Franklin was underwhelming, I'll give you that one.

 

I think it's too early to say for Johnson, especially seeing how much more active he was when Hassellbeck was playing.  Is it really that Johnson is underperforming or is Luck just not finding him?

 

Cherilus absolutely did not underperform his first year here..he was actually pretty good.  Then injuries took their toll and his performance suffered.

 

Avery...yeah I think underwhelming fits for him too.  

 

Here's the thing though...with the exception of Cherilus, all of these guys were stop-gaps who might improve and turn into quality starters.  None of them caused any long term damage to the team's salary cap.  

[Defjamz26]

That is comically wrong. RJF, Cherilus, Avery, Johnson, Jones and Franklin were NOT terrible. Your hate of Grigson is distorting your views.

only if you already hate him

RJF was a rotational DY and Franklin wasn't any good. But I'll give you the other 3. That still leaves a short list of truly successful FA pickups by Grigson:

Redding

Adams

Cherilus

Langford

Freeman

Those guys have/had noticeable success. And then you have the on the fence guys like Jones who's been injured, Avery who was just a 1 season stop gap, and Toler who's been up and down and injured.

[Superman]

Yes, but you have Chapman, Hughes (also a trade that was bothced), and Thornton and Khaled may actually not even pan out. They could, but maybe not. I was trying to add it up in my head, and I think half of Grigsons draft picks are no longer on the team. 

 

As for being 50/50 on trades I think that's a little generous. You have: Trent trade, Hughes trade, Cam Johnson trade, montori hughes trade, and probably a few others i am missing. While the only good trades I can REMEMBER were Vontae, and trading up for Hilton. Its probably more like 33% trade success.

 

We have the oldest defense in the league, several players who dont fit that scheme have been tried to be plugged in. Our offensive line is bad. Mewhort is not even that good, honestly. Thornton holds a lot and is unathletic and dumb. Holmes is getting beat anytime hes in one on one. Reitz is a solid backup. AC I would give a grade of B- compared to all LTs in the league. He drafted Dorsett, who if he even turns out, is the same playing style of Hilton. Seems silly to me. A lot of his free agents have failed and been over paid. Landry, RJF, Cherlius, DHB, Avery, Johnson, Art Jones, Donald Thomas, Todd Herremans, Lance Louis, Franklin.... all were TERRIBLE players. DQ JAX is trash as well. I know youre high on Donald Thomas, but he was not even that great the like 2 games he played. He didnt even have a big enough sample size to judge, and yes a gm can be blamed for drafting players who are injury PRONE and are constantly getting injured and re-injured. Thats something a gm should recognize. 11 free agents have been utter failures, compared to just Frank Gore, and Walden (who is mediorcre and overpaid), Redding (who isnt here anymore because grigson like old guys and he was old as fack). I wont count toler, hes been trash lately and is always hurt.

 

Pretty much, Grigson has failed on way more free agents than he has had successes. He has failed on more trades than hes had success. He's so far failed on more 1st round draft picks than hes had success. I think he may even have more draft picks who are no longer on the team, than are on the team. Irregardless, grigson is below 50% in almost every category, and 60% = D grade. So yeah, I think he should be canned.

 

Lets not forget him trying to screw with the lineup and insert people in so hopefully they can prove themselves and he looks smart and some genius that can find diamonds in the rough. What and arrogant tool. Trying to make himself look smart before he worries about whats best for the team. Not many GMs should have that authority in my opinion, ESPECIALLY a young relatively inexperienced one like Grigson.

 

Hes also an arrogant jerk. You can tell by by the way he talks.

 

I'm going to ignore the speculative stuff about meddling. None of that has been proven, and is entirely based on unsourced "reports." Doesn't mean it's not true, but someone floating it doesn't make it true, either.

 

Chapman was a fifth rounder. Hughes was a fifth rounder, plus a future fourth. They don't even belong in this discussion. Players in those rounds have about a 30% chance of making it five years in the league. Holmes and Thornton are the best center/right guard combo we've had since Saturday and Scott. That's quite an indictment on our OL since 2007, but those two are playing fine.

 

More on Thornton, he's probably our most athletic OL. I'm not sure what you're talking about. Calling him dumb is amazingly ridiculous. And I'll ignore the hyperbole on Holmes... ;) He's not a Pro Bowler, but he's adequate. And again, he's a fourth rounder.

 

As for trades, I was talking explicitly about trading for young, up and coming players, and it should have been inferred that I was talking about noteworthy trades, not 7th round swaps for STs players. In that regard, there's only Davis and Richardson, and the result is 50/50.

 

The rest of that is very argumentative, most of it I disagree with on one level or another, but that's fine. I don't feel like rehashing all of this, and as I've said, the time has come for Grigson's performance to be judged on its merits, rather than against the low expectations we had when he took over. 

[Superman]

Yeah my phone posts my messages if the screen locks and I re-open it.

But yeah I see your point. Only so many guys you can draft in 4 years. Which I get. Plus you can't hit on every single pick.

I just felt he jumped the gun in 2013. He saw holes and went crazy trying to do a patch job. Like with Landry. You say Pagano likes interchangeable safeties but then sign a guy who can't cover (or tackle for that matter). Then you bring in Winston Justice who was bad. RJF was a rotational guy,etc...

If you're going to patch holes, at least get good players. Some of his signings have actually hurt the team. DHB dropped a bunch of balls that stalled drives, Justice had too many holding calls and gave up pressure, and Landry missed tackles and gave up a lot of YAC and long runs.

Not only was his 2013 draft a wash (Holmes and Thorton still pending), but his FA class was a was that year too. I think Toler is the only guy he signed from that class still on the team. He completely failed to upgrade the team at all, except for at RT with Cherilus. You can't strike out on an entire off-season. And the Richardson trade basically counts against 2013 as well since it was made early in the season.

Nothing undermines the young talent base more than striking out on an entire off-season. That point often gets masked by the Colts going 11-5 and winning a playoff game.

Bottom line I think we can both agree on with this whole Grigson thing is that he's left a lot on the table. And that might be what does him in.

 

You should go back and take a look at our lineups in 2012. Most of those free agents were upgrades. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/2012.htmYou might also recognize some stuff you've forgotten, like Winston Justice being a 2012 guy, and being far inferior to even the shell of Gosder Cherilus that we had to endure in 2014.

 

The bolded is probably the fairest characterization anyone has come up with.

[Bubbz]

I'm going to ignore the speculative stuff about meddling. None of that has been proven, and is entirely based on unsourced "reports." Doesn't mean it's not true, but someone floating it doesn't make it true, either.

Chapman was a fifth rounder. Hughes was a fifth rounder, plus a future fourth. They don't even belong in this discussion. Players in those rounds have about a 30% chance of making it five years in the league. Holmes and Thornton are the best center/right guard combo we've had since Saturday and Scott. That's quite an indictment on our OL since 2007, but those two are playing fine.

More on Thornton, he's probably our most athletic OL. I'm not sure what you're talking about. Calling him dumb is amazingly ridiculous. And I'll ignore the hyperbole on Holmes... ;) He's not a Pro Bowler, but he's adequate. And again, he's a fourth rounder.

As for trades, I was talking explicitly about trading for young, up and coming players, and it should have been inferred that I was talking about noteworthy trades, not 7th round swaps for STs players. In that regard, there's only Davis and Richardson, and the result is 50/50.

The rest of that is very argumentative, most of it I disagree with on one level or another, but that's fine. I don't feel like rehashing all of this, and as I've said, the time has come for Grigson's performance to be judged on its merits, rather than against the low expectations we had when he took over.

So do you think Thornton and Holmes are the answers moving forward? I don't think either will pan out and do well. They're both below average starters, in my opinion.

Also, I think it's fair to bring in draft day trades. Especially for picks that have outright failed.

I know people harp on the Richardson trade a lot, but I think Grigson could be evaluated as a bad gm just off that alone. I know you probably think that's unfair, but if you waste a 1st on a guy who is arguably one of the worst backs in NFL history, it makes me question if he has any ability to scout talent and hasn't gotten lucky on a lot of picks. A lot of people here could've done a better job than grigson has..

[OffensivelyPC]

Not that I disagree with Pagano or Grigson getting canned, but where are all of these media outlets getting this information? I feel like one person made it up, and everyone else just rolled with it. I rarely ever see a source cited even an anonymous one.

That's epecially true considering how tightly they kept the Andrew Luck situation from everybody.  When it comes to this organization, if there's not a name to the source, you just have to take it with a grain of salt.

[Superman]

Avery...yeah I think underwhelming fits for him too.  

 

Avery signed a one year, vet minimum deal. Sixty catches, 781 yards, 3 TDs. I don't understand what's underwhelming about that.

 

He outproduced DHB and Nicks who came after him. He outproduced AJ's current pace. 

[Jason_]

Avery signed a one year, vet minimum deal. Sixty catches, 781 yards, 3 TDs. I don't understand what's underwhelming about that.

 

He outproduced DHB and Nicks who came after him. He outproduced AJ's current pace. 

 

I was trying to throw bubbz a bone?  IDK lol   I guess I got underwhelming from the fact he didn't perform well enough for a 2nd contract.    That's the best I can come up with anyway.

[colts8718]

Anyone else realize what's really happening here?

Boston is the 4th largest market in the United States. It has a very large influence on the national sports media.

99% of the people in Boston absolutely hate the Colts and want to see our team fail. They would love to see us dismantle our team and start over every time we get close to beating the patriots.

Use your brains people.

Stop buying into the media bias.

Seriously ?

[Restored]

I'm going to ignore the speculative stuff about meddling. None of that has been proven, and is entirely based on unsourced "reports." Doesn't mean it's not true, but someone floating it doesn't make it true, either.

 

Chapman was a fifth rounder. Hughes was a fifth rounder, plus a future fourth. They don't even belong in this discussion. Players in those rounds have about a 30% chance of making it five years in the league. Holmes and Thornton are the best center/right guard combo we've had since Saturday and Scott. That's quite an indictment on our OL since 2007, but those two are playing fine.

 

More on Thornton, he's probably our most athletic OL. I'm not sure what you're talking about. Calling him dumb is amazingly ridiculous. And I'll ignore the hyperbole on Holmes... ;) He's not a Pro Bowler, but he's adequate. And again, he's a fourth rounder.

 

As for trades, I was talking explicitly about trading for young, up and coming players, and it should have been inferred that I was talking about noteworthy trades, not 7th round swaps for STs players. In that regard, there's only Davis and Richardson, and the result is 50/50.

 

The rest of that is very argumentative, most of it I disagree with on one level or another, but that's fine. I don't feel like rehashing all of this, and as I've said, the time has come for Grigson's performance to be judged on its merits, rather than against the low expectations we had when he took over. 

 

I'm still surprised at how much you've tried to minimize Grigson's failures. PFF has Khaled Holmes allowing a league high 21 QB pressure thus far. Is that really "playing fine"? Thornton is a holding penalty machine. Castanzo, Mewhort and Reitz have played solid thus far (ironically, two of those players aren't even from the Grigson era).

 

Let's call it what it is. Grigson managed to walk in to a GM's dream of having the #1 overall pick and Andrew Luck and has underachieved. People seem content with the mediocrity of this team that has been largely masked by Luck. Now that we are in a period where Luck is struggling, the rest of the team (coaching staff included) is being exposed.

 

If people are content with the mediocrity, cheer for the Dolphins.

[Superman]

So do you think Thornton and Holmes are the answers moving forward? I don't think either will pan out and do well. They're both below average starters, in my opinion.

Also, I think it's fair to bring in draft day trades. Especially for picks that have outright failed.

I know people harp on the Richardson trade a lot, but I think Grigson could be evaluated as a bad gm just off that alone. I know you probably think that's unfair, but if you waste a 1st on a guy who is arguably one of the worst backs in NFL history, it makes me question if he has any ability to scout talent and hasn't gotten lucky on a lot of picks. A lot of people here could've done a better job than grigson has..

 

I'm much higher on Thornton than most. No question he's had his issues, but I think physically, he's got major upside. We'll see. Holmes is decent, and plays the least physically demanding position on the line. I'm certainly not opposed to upgrading him if the opportunity presents itself, but prior to late last season, he hadn't played. I don't think either is below average.

 

It's fair to discuss draft day trades. It's not what I was talking about, though.

 

On Richardson, I wouldn't have made the trade. But that's not because of my thoughts on Richardson, it's because of positional value. However, almost EVERYONE missed on Richardson. Hold it against Grigson for getting it wrong, that's fair, but we should also acknowledge that he's far from the only one to get it wrong. According to most scouting, Richardson was the next big thing. This wasn't an issue of not being able to identify talent. I still think Richardson had the talent (maybe I'm being stubborn); I think he stopped working, got out of shape, didn't learn the playbook, didn't respond to coaching or teammates, and is now out of the league.

 

To the bolded, there are a lot of people on here that I wouldn't trust to wash my windows. 

[Deathiltis]

Irsay is directly to blame. Knuckleheads hire knuckleheads.

[Gavin]

I'm still surprised at how much you've tried to minimize Grigson's failures. PFF has Khaled Holmes allowing a league high 21 QB pressure thus far. Is that really "playing fine"? Thornton is a holding penalty machine. Castanzo, Mewhort and Reitz have played solid thus far (ironically, two of those players aren't even from the Grigson era).

 

Let's call it what it is. Grigson managed to walk in to a GM's dream of having the #1 overall pick and Andrew Luck and has underachieved. People seem content with the mediocrity of this team that has been largely masked by Luck. Now that we are in a period where Luck is struggling, the rest of the team (coaching staff included) is being exposed.

 

If people are content with the mediocrity, cheer for the Dolphins.

Castonzo leads the team with 4 holding penalties by the way, Thornton while he has 3 they all came in 1 game vs the Titans

[Superman]

I'm still surprised at how much you've tried to minimize Grigson's failures. PFF has Khaled Holmes allowing a league high 21 QB pressure thus far. Is that really "playing fine"? Thornton is a holding penalty machine. Castanzo, Mewhort and Reitz have played solid thus far (ironically, two of those players aren't even from the Grigson era).

 

Let's call it what it is. Grigson managed to walk in to a GM's dream of having the #1 overall pick and Andrew Luck and has underachieved. People seem content with the mediocrity of this team that has been largely masked by Luck. Now that we are in a period where Luck is struggling, the rest of the team (coaching staff included) is being exposed.

 

If people are content with the mediocrity, cheer for the Dolphins.

 

Goodness, again with this. There's a world of difference between "Grigson is an arrogant jerk who is no better at being a GM than most people on this site would be" and "Grigson is the best, there's nothing wrong with him, I'm happy he's my GM." I'm sorry you have no patience for a nuanced viewpoint, but I'm not going to be painted into a corner.

 

I don't agree with PFF's charting of Holmes' hurries, and that stat doesn't account for the fact that our QB has been holding the ball longer than anyone else on more dropbacks than anyone else in the league. Nonetheless, Holmes has given up too many pressures. He also played between two of the worst guards in the league the first two weeks. He's also been pretty good in the run game. So yes, he's playing fine.

 

Thornton isn't a holding machine, unless you're unwilling to acknowledge the fact that most of the holding penalties he's been called for have been bogus. But that would undermine the Grigson Hate Caravan that has to roll through here several times a week. AC has more penalties than any other OL in the league. He's played solid, but Thornton is terrible because of some bogus penalties?

 

There are some seriously unreasonable expectations around here, and that's been the case for a couple years now. People expect to have Pro Bowlers tucked away in every corner of the roster, and if there aren't, not only must heads roll, but anyone who isn't grabbing a pitchfork needs to go cheer for another team? Unreal...

[OffensivelyPC]

To the bolded, there are a lot of people on here that I wouldn't trust to wash my windows. 

LOL.  If this forum had a Hall of Fame for posts, this sentence would be in it under "Armchair Quarterback/GM"

[#12.]

nm

[Restored]

Goodness, again with this. There's a world of difference between "Grigson is an arrogant jerk who is no better at being a GM than most people on this site would be" and "Grigson is the best, there's nothing wrong with him, I'm happy he's my GM." I'm sorry you have no patience for a nuanced viewpoint, but I'm not going to be painted into a corner.

 

I don't agree with PFF's charting of Holmes' hurries, and that stat doesn't account for the fact that our QB has been holding the ball longer than anyone else on more dropbacks than anyone else in the league. Nonetheless, Holmes has given up too many pressures. He also played between two of the worst guards in the league the first two weeks. He's also been pretty good in the run game. So yes, he's playing fine.

 

Thornton isn't a holding machine, unless you're unwilling to acknowledge the fact that most of the holding penalties he's been called for have been bogus. But that would undermine the Grigson Hate Caravan that has to roll through here several times a week. AC has more penalties than any other OL in the league. He's played solid, but Thornton is terrible because of some bogus penalties?

 

There are some seriously unreasonable expectations around here, and that's been the case for a couple years now. People expect to have Pro Bowlers tucked away in every corner of the roster, and if there aren't, not only must heads roll, but anyone who isn't grabbing a pitchfork needs to go cheer for another team? Unreal...

 

I'm not claiming you are on either side of the fence but rather that you seem content with the mediocrity that is this Colts team.

 

So it's Luck's fault that Holmes can't block longer than 2.5 to 3 seconds? If so, that's on coaching to recognize that a player can't last that long in pass protection and change the playbook. Did you see the play last week where he was doing the splits? Him being good in the run game doesn't excuse his failures in pass protection, which has been the primary issue with the offensive line since Grigson's tenure began. Deflecting because you simply don't agree with a statistically-driven website analysis's doesn't do a whole lot to help your cause either.

 

Also, calling penalties "bogus" without evidence to support it is merely an opinion. The offensive line as a whole getting hit with holding calls is a clearly a trend that's been going on for most of the season. Should we resort to blaming the refs now? Is it the players or coaching? Castanzo has had a history of playing consistently unlike Thornton or Holmes. While his holding calls have been bad this year, he still is the best offensive linemen the Colts have and it's not that close. Meanwhile Holmes continues to be sub-par.

 

Again, I'm not saying blow up this entire team but it's pretty evident that after 4 seasons, Grigson has built a largely mediocre team with the same problems existing since the day he took over that have been masked largely by Luck's ability. Fans of mediocre teams like the Dolphins make up the same excuses for their teams and seem content with it.  I'm not. It's not unreasonable to expect this team to beat teams they should beat and take the next step after having 4 years to build.

[Superman]

I'm not claiming you are on either side of the fence but rather that you seem content with the mediocrity that is this Colts team.

 

So it's Luck's fault that Holmes can't block longer than 2.5 to 3 seconds? If so, that's on coaching to recgonize that a player can't last t Did you see the play last week where he was doing the splits? Him being good in the run game doesn't excuse his failures in pass protection, which has been the primary issue with the offensive line since Grigson's tenure began. Deflecting because you simply don't agree with a statistically-driven website analysis's doesn't do a whole lot to help your cause.

 

Also, calling penalties "bogus" without evidence to support it is merely an opinion. The offensive line as a whole getting hit with holding calls is a clearly a trend that's been going on for most of the season. Should we resort to blaming the refs now? Is it the players or coaching? Castanzo has had a history of playing consistently unlike Thornton or Holmes. While his holding calls have been bad this year, he still is the best offensive linemen the Colts have and it's not that close. Meanwhile Holmes continues to be sub-par.

 

Again, I'm not saying blow up this entire team but it's pretty evident that after 4 seasons, Grigson has built a largely mediocre team with the same problems existing since the day he took over that have been masked largely by Luck's ability. Fans of mediocre teams like the Dolphins make up the same excuses for their teams and seem content with it.  I'm not. It's not unreasonable to expect this team to beat teams they should beat and take the next step after having 4 years to build.

 

You can stuff this 'content' crap. I'm not huffing and puffing about how awful everyone is because I'm not that kind of person. That doesn't make me content with anything. 

 

Any QB who is routinely taking nearly three seconds to get rid of the ball is stressing his OL. That's true around the league, and even of good OLs, which we don't have. Luck started the year taking longer than any other QB to get rid of the ball, and doing so more frequently than any other QB. So yes, it's partially his fault that the OL -- including Holmes -- has given up as many pressures as they have. This is not a deflection. It's simple fact. You act like I'm making something up. 

 

Two of the three holding calls against Holmes in the Titans' game were bogus. Call it what you want, but I know what holding is and what it is not. 

[Dustin]

Any QB who is routinely taking nearly three seconds to get rid of the ball is stressing his OL. That's true around the league, and even of good OLs, which we don't have. Luck started the year taking longer than any other QB to get rid of the ball, and doing so more frequently than any other QB

 

when will this meme die?

[Superman]

when will this meme die?

 

Is it false? Did I exaggerate it?

[Dustin]

Is it false? Did I exaggerate it?

13th quickest time to attempt the first 3 weeks of the season. 2.41 seconds on average.

[SteelCityColt]

Is it false? Did I exaggerate it?

 

I feel like this is appropriate to the topic..

 

[SteelCityColt]

13th quickest time to attempt the first 3 weeks of the season. 2.41 seconds on average.

 

Source? Not being funny about it, but man that seems waaaay short for how long it feels like Luck holds the ball sometimes. 

[bababooey]

Source? Not being funny about it, but man that seems waaaay short for how long it feels like Luck holds the ball sometimes.

Compared to Brady's 1.5 seconds it prob feels like forever

[Dustin]

Source? Not being funny about it, but man that seems waaaay short for how long it feels like Luck holds the ball sometimes. 

 

I was wrong on the rank, it's actually 10th out of 21. Still not close to "3 seconds on average" and nowhere near the bottom of the league. 

 

[Superman]

13th quickest time to attempt the first 3 weeks of the season. 2.41 seconds on average.

 

First, damn PFF for getting rid of premium stats.

 

Second, there was a significant difference between the first two games and the third.

 

Third, time to attempt is different from time holding the ball, the latter of which accounts for scrambles, time to sack, etc. So perhaps I should say he held the ball too long, but the point remains.

[SteelCityColt]

I was wrong on the rank, it's actually 10th out of 21. Still not close to "3 seconds on average" and nowhere near the bottom of the league. 

 

 

Thank you, 

 

Actually the biggest surprise for me there is the "T to scramble", Stafford. Wouldn't have expected that. 

[OntarioColtsFan]

But the fact that the media (ESPN) is in love with the patriots and not only that but half there cast played for the patriots. I can see where he's coming from; I've felt this way before.

May as well add the NFL network while your at it

[Bubbz]

I'm much higher on Thornton than most. No question he's had his issues, but I think physically, he's got major upside. We'll see. Holmes is decent, and plays the least physically demanding position on the line. I'm certainly not opposed to upgrading him if the opportunity presents itself, but prior to late last season, he hadn't played. I don't think either is below average.

It's fair to discuss draft day trades. It's not what I was talking about, though.

On Richardson, I wouldn't have made the trade. But that's not because of my thoughts on Richardson, it's because of positional value. However, almost EVERYONE missed on Richardson. Hold it against Grigson for getting it wrong, that's fair, but we should also acknowledge that he's far from the only one to get it wrong. According to most scouting, Richardson was the next big thing. This wasn't an issue of not being able to identify talent. I still think Richardson had the talent (maybe I'm being stubborn); I think he stopped working, got out of shape, didn't learn the playbook, didn't respond to coaching or teammates, and is now out of the league.

To the bolded, there are a lot of people on here that I wouldn't trust to wash my windows.

People have been talking about thorn thorntons upside for 3 years... He's simply not good. That's why he wasn't even a starter over Todd herremans or Louis which is really saying something. Holmes again is not good.

Yes a lot of people missed on Richardson, but no one missed on him after having a rookie year in which he couldn't average over 3.5 yards a carry. He wasn't good. The positional value alone is enough to make me question grigsons overall competence, let alone he took one of the worst half backs if all time.

[Superman]

People have been talking about thorn thorntons upside for 3 years... He's simply not good. That's why he wasn't even a starter over Todd herremans or Louis which is really saying something. Holmes again is not good.

Yes a lot of people missed on Richardson, but no one missed on him after having a rookie year in which he couldn't average over 3.5 yards a carry. He wasn't good. The positional value alone is enough to make me question grigsons overall competence, let alone he took one of the worst half backs if all time.

 

I disagree.

[bababooey]

People have been talking about thorn thorntons upside for 3 years... He's simply not good. That's why he wasn't even a starter over Todd herremans or Louis which is really saying something. Holmes again is not good.

Yes a lot of people missed on Richardson, but no one missed on him after having a rookie year in which he couldn't average over 3.5 yards a carry. He wasn't good. The positional value alone is enough to make me question grigsons overall competence, let alone he took one of the worst half backs if all time.

3.5 ypc for a bad team with a bad qb and no receiving weapons, wanted by a guy who just lost his starting RB and has a ton of other weapons so the RB doesn't have to do all the work. Also considering richardsons college body of work, I can see why the trade was made.

[crazycolt1]

"The Media," including ESPN, have covered Spygate and Deflategate in great detail. If the media were so pro-Patriots and anti-Colts, wouldn't it have simply buried the story??

The media including ESPN played the deflate stuff to the hilt and are still doing it. It has now become chic to bash the Colts at every opportunity. That is why there is so much attention with threads like this. The season is not even half over and it seems more are talking more about who is going to be the Colts new coach or GM. They are not going to bury a story that sells themselves. We have read just about every angle that could have been thought up including some really deep horse dung. One of the best things I have heard is the GMs. coaches and the players for the most part do not even read or pay attention to the media. If it wasn't a rule the NFL people must talk to the media they wouldn't get the time of day.

[NewEra]

I haven't read through the thread but I can say this. Grigson shouldn't be fired for draft related issues...with that being said. If he is the one behind the scenes calling. The shots, who to start who not to start, what coaches to be used. Then on that merit he should be fired. He is the GM, let the coach be the coach. Let Pagano sink or swim. Don't hand cuff him.

[crazycolt1]

Personally I felt that he's done too much in FA. You're right about Cherilus. He was great for awhile. My issue was Grigson making him the highest paid RT of all time given his age. And that's what a lot of his FAs have been. Him over-paying guys close to or over 30 as if they're long term pieces.

He's supposed to be rebuilding but he's spent excess money on hole pluggers rather than focusing on acquiring good young talent. Davis was a good non-draft acquisition because he was young and a player with upside. But the Landry signing for example wasn't good. Not only was he not a good player, but he was signed to a pretty decent contract.

Now a lot of those moves are offset by him setting up contracts that are easy to get out of, but the point remains the same. He's signing guys past their prime just to not have a hole there for 1-2 seasons, since that's how long most of them last. But then we're right back at square one.

And I'd be fine if we were a team like the Seahawks or Bengals where we have an almost complete time of young upside players, and we only need 1 or 2 guys to get us to the next level but I don't see the point when he's supposed to be re-building. I'm not saying settle for sucking because it's a new regime but I don't see the need for signing some of these guys.

When you experience the type of roster turn-around we did in 2012, it's the draft picks and young FAs that is the measuring stick because that's how good teams are built. And that's where I feel like he's let down. Not bringing in ENOUGH young players and thus causing the same problems to emerge.

IDK if it's the negative being magnified as much as the underlying issue with this team being exposed.

Being exposed? The players on the roster were good enough to make the AFC championship game. Yes it was a tough loss but the results got us there. And IMO there are too many that do nothing but see the negative that they completely overlook the positive. The Colts are just a hand full of players away from being a championship team. Now some want people fired right in the middle of the rebuild? Horse dung.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

I have to laugh at the PFF disciples on here.....it should be PFFFTTTTT....a bunch of self admitted Brits who have NO EXPERIENCE in the NFL (disclaimer: there are plenty of knowledgeable British NFL Fans on here and abroad) who are selling you snake oil at a premium cost so you can DOMINATE your Fantasy League...wow, just wow. 

[BOTT]

3.5 ypc for a bad team with a bad qb and no receiving weapons, wanted by a guy who just lost his starting RB and has a ton of other weapons so the RB doesn't have to do all the work. Also considering richardsons college body of work, I can see why the trade was made.

Don't even. A borderline maroon could have looked at the Cleveland tape and deduced TBust wasn't worth a 3rd let alone a 1st. If you like Grigson, fine, but don't defend him on that trade.

[WoolMagnet]

I can't believe there is actually serious talk of firing the GM. and head coach.and offensive coord when we were just in the AFC championship and we are leading our division.

How the heck did we get here? This is the twighlight zone!

Seriously. Just let that sink in for a moment.

ITS CRAZY!

You gotta admit, no matter what anyone says.

Being a Colts fan certainly isn't boring.

[Bubbz]

I'm much higher on Thornton than most. No question he's had his issues, but I think physically, he's got major upside. We'll see. Holmes is decent, and plays the least physically demanding position on the line. I'm certainly not opposed to upgrading him if the opportunity presents itself, but prior to late last season, he hadn't played. I don't think either is below average.

It's fair to discuss draft day trades. It's not what I was talking about, though.

On Richardson, I wouldn't have made the trade. But that's not because of my thoughts on Richardson, it's because of positional value. However, almost EVERYONE missed on Richardson. Hold it against Grigson for getting it wrong, that's fair, but we should also acknowledge that he's far from the only one to get it wrong. According to most scouting, Richardson was the next big thing. This wasn't an issue of not being able to identify talent. I still think Richardson had the talent (maybe I'm being stubborn); I think he stopped working, got out of shape, didn't learn the playbook, didn't respond to coaching or teammates, and is now out of the league.

To the bolded, there are a lot of people on here that I wouldn't trust to wash my windows.

People have been talking about thorn thorntons upside for 3 years... He's simply not good. That's why he wasn't even a starter over Todd herremans or Louis which is really saying something. Holmes again is not good.

Yes a lot of people missed on Richardson, but no one missed on him after having a rookie year in which he couldn't average over 3.5 yards a carry. He wasn't good. The positional value alone is enough to make me question grigsons overall competence, let alone he took one of the worst half backs if all time.

[WoolMagnet]

Being exposed? The players on the roster were good enough to make the AFC championship game. Yes it was a tough loss but the results got us there. And IMO there are too many that do nothing but see the negative that they completely overlook the positive. The Colts are just a hand full of players away from being a championship team. Now some want people fired right in the middle of the rebuild? Horse dung.

You are 100% spot on, imo.

Unfortunately, its the new american way to whine and complain about what you don't have rather than be thankful for what you do. Its a state of mind, a code. I know people who find a $20 bill and whine it wasn't a $50. You know the type. Some get it some don't. Some never will. Just be happy you are in the minority and save your breath. You aren't alone tho. Keep the faith.

Everyone has an opinion, i get it. But the constant tireless search for problems and whining gets old. "Fire them all" is not a solution , in itself.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

You are 100% spot on, imo.

Unfortunately, its the new american way to whine and complain about what you don't have rather than be thankful for what you do. Its a state of mind, a code. Some get it some don't. Some never will. Just be happy you are in the minority and save your breath. You aren't alone tho. Keep the faith.

That makes three of us!