Confirmed: Luck injured throwing shoulder

[GoColts8818]

ESPN has him listed as Questionable and that he missed practice.  

I'll trust Luck and Pagano saying they expect him to play. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

ESPN has him listed as Questionable and that he missed practice.  

 

I see him as probable in the game HQ on espn.com

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/game?gameId=400791671

[K-148]

This is ignorance at its finest.  So you're saying it is his fault for trying to move the chains and keep a drive alive rather than dump it off on a 3rd and 20?  Yeesh, with this kind of logic the guy can't win no matter what he does.

 

And I'd have to guess that you'd be in favor of receivers going up with alligator arms to ensure they don't take too much punishment either?

So it is bad to throw INT, Luck better be throw out of bounds. But it's ok to throw to double covered WR, be hit, but not throw for 12 yards and get FG? Ok. What about calculated risks?

[K-148]

Because "boring dink-dunk" works, is efficient, effective, and keeps the QB upright. Upright QBs play well, and get paid. When QBs play well and get paid, their coordinators have better odds of getting a head coach gig, and their head coaches have better odds of getting a contract extension.

It surely works for the team, I'm all for that. But Pep spent all summer dreaming of high octane offense and HC job, it's not that easy to throw that to the curb. It's like a book "How to become multi-milionaire...when you are multi-millionaire".

[cranium cramp]

I mostly lurk and rarely post anymore due to some of the insane threads that cross these boards now days. However, I would like to state a long time colts fan opinion on Lucy's injury. I have been watching the colts since 75 when I was only 5, sitting on my dad's knee with all my uncle's and cousins.

I can undoubtedly say this current regime may be one of the worst I have had the misfortune of having witnessed. Grigson's utter refusal to assemble an offensive line. Pep's refusing to play to the team's strengths. And maybe the one that gets me the most is Chuck.

If I'm a coach worth my weight in salt, then I walk right up to pep in game pull the playbook and hand it to Chud. Post game presser after, not if, after we win the game. Tell the media Pep has been demoted until further notice. Then invite Grigson's to the mic. When he walks up, smile and whisper check mate.

The problem with this team, and I have seen the high highs, I've watched the lows get so low when fans looked up we could see the belly of a snake. I have watched every coach this team in indy has ever employed. Also watch every one in Baltimore since 75. Pep has to go. Pep is the coach that will ruin Andrew Luck.

A-la David Carr of the Texans. That kid would have been something special. The texans let him get killed, he forever heard footsteps after that. Rushing everything every play.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I agree Pep needs to go and I respect you have been a Colts fan since 1975. I have been since 1984. Love the loyalty you have but David Carr is not even close to Andrew Luck talent wise. Carr was a statue in the pocket, Luck can scramble and run and throw the deep ball better as well.

[Sting]

I'm telling you guys,stop blaming the GM.

 

Luck injured his shoulder from throwing too many long passes over the first three weeks.

 

He threw shorter passes in the 4th quarter and we moved the ball well......so maybe a sore shoulder is a good thing.

Really cementing the fact that Pep needs to be fired. 

 

It sounds like it's a bruise.  You don't bruise your shoulder throwing the ball.  I agree Luck shares in some of the blame for him being banged up but let's not pretend the o-line has been wonderful this year. 

 

I don't agree with putting all the blame on Grigson either and I think calling for his head just because of the o-line isn't truly looking at the whole situation but I do think it's fair to point out his attempts to fix the line have not worked so far. 

This is the reality of it all, if his attempts to fix the line have not worked, it is his fault.  He makes a truckload of money to get this % done right.  Having said that, I think Pep is a more of a major problem knowing that the OL is not going to be able to handle blitz pickups and should have adjusted accordingly.  Pep just seems so clueless to me.  Luck deserves better than these two *s.

[James Harden]

On which play Luck hurt his shoulder on in Sunday's game, Pagano says "pick one of them." Says a lot.

— Zak Keefer (@zkeefer)

September 30, 2015

 

Say what you want, but this appears to be Pagano taking a shot at Grigson. 

Should have said "Pick anyone one of them from the past 3 years" lol

[NewColtsFan]

OK....    I'll be the contrarian here....

 

I don't think this is a Pagano shot at Grigson.

 

I think this is Pagano trying to protect a player(s) that everyone will point to IF Pagano reveals a specific play for the injury.

 

Everyone would run to their DVR and look at the play and figure out which OL couldn't stop his man and allowed Luck to be hit.

 

The way Pagano explains it,  he's not giving up the play and by doing that,  he's not giving up the player that fans would then point to for getting Luck hurt.

 

Just my view of things from 1800 miles away.

[SkyBane]

OK....    I'll be the contrarian here....

 

I don't think this is a Pagano shot at Grigson.

 

I think this is Pagano trying to protect a player(s) that everyone will point to IF Pagano reveals a specific play for the injury.

 

Everyone would run to their DVR and look at the play and figure out which OL couldn't stop his man and allowed Luck to be hit.

 

The way Pagano explains it,  he's not giving up the play and by doing that,  he's not giving up the player that fans would then point to for getting Luck hurt.

 

Just my view of things from 1800 miles away.

This argument is full of logical fallacies, as it is, he said the entire O line is a sieve and threw 5 players under the bus. It's a shot at whoever built that offensive line (Grigson) or the guy scheming for it (Hamilton). Either way, it's a bad shake, and clearly a shot at someone in management, as Pagano hasn't thrown an entire position group under the bus like this in his tenure here, and isn't one to blame players for jack %.

[Smash Mouth]

I like another "subtle" shot a Grigson here 

 

"When asked which game Luck injured his shoulder, Pagano replied, "pick one."

I'm starting to like Pagano more and more.  There's no question that he's out after this season in my mind

[theanarchist]

I'm telling you guys,stop blaming the GM.

 

Luck injured his shoulder from throwing too many long passes over the first three weeks.

 

He threw shorter passes in the 4th quarter and we moved the ball well......so maybe a sore shoulder is a good thing.

Any kind of injury to the "throwing shoulder" is not a good thing. Not at all. I get what you are saying tho, we need shorter passes. Most likely any injury he sustained was due to being drilled by defensive linemen. Something has to change or Luck will not make it thru the season and you can't be a QB if your throwing shoulder is dead.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I'm staring to like Pagano more and more.  There's no question that he's out after this season in my mind

I am starting to like him more too. I like the fact he is more outspoken than usual. Looks like Andrew has his back too by his interviews.

[theanarchist]

I'm staring to like Pagano more and more.  There's no question that he's out after this season in my mind

Ya, for sure. Chuck isn't happy and I'm sure he's taking the attitude that he's going to speak his mind because he doesnt have anything to lose. Good luck finding a good coach who is willing to be a puppet for the GM.

[theanarchist]

I'm really surprised people areant a little more concerned about this than they are. An injury to a throwing athletes throwing shoulder is significant. Granted we don't know the extent or exact nature of the injury and both Luck and Pagano say the expect him to play. But, depending on the injury this could be a big deal. From experience, some shoulder injuries are tough to manage and can linger for quite some time. If you are talking about structural damage, which I hope we are not, then that could be ominus.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I'm really surprised people areant a little more concerned about this than they are. An injury to a throwing athletes throwing shoulder is significant. Granted we don't know the extent or exact nature of the injury and both Luck and Pagano say the expect him to play. But, depending on the injury this could be a big deal. From experience, some shoulder injuries are tough to manage and can linger for quite some time. If you are talking about structural damage, which I hope we are not, then that could be ominus.

I think because it is being called just a bruise and it looks like he is going to play that not many are not overly concerned. I am concerned though because Andrew takes a lot of hits. One wrong hit now could make it worse if he isn't 100%.

[Smash Mouth]

Ya, for sure. Chuck isn't happy and I'm sure he's taking the attitude that he's going to speak his mind because he doesnt have anything to lose. Good luck finding a good coach who is willing to be a puppet for the GM.

Not to mention a puppet for an average GM.  If Luck is truly hurt and not just dealing with a bruise, things will get ugly very quickly.  Winning games is the only this left to hold this regime together this season.

[theanarchist]

Not to mention a puppet for an average GM.  If Luck is truly hurt and not just dealing with a bruise, things will get ugly very quickly.  Winning games is the only this left to hold this regime together this season.

I would say if Luck's throwing shoulder is hurt significantly then Grigson just dug himself a hole and he may as well lay down in it. You can't have the most promising QB to come into the league since Peyton and not protect him. It's pretty apparent that most people understand that the offensive line talent is not where it should be. Job one for Grigson should have been to compile a line that could protect Luck. I'm not saying he didn't try. But he failed or has failed to this point. People can say all they want that the play calling has contributed to this and that's probably right but in 3 years you can't put together an offensive line that could atleast protect Luck better than: most QB hits in the league?? His first year he was sacked more than any QB. I just hope it is a bruise and there isn't more to it.

[pacolts56]

This won't be a popular post, but that's OK..... but this needs to be said.

The Colts could've invested 5 first round draft picks on the OL and Andrew Luck STILL could get hurt.

Stuff happens.

It's the nature of the position. Quarterbacks get hurt. Doubt there's ever been one in the history of the game that didn't get hurt to one extent or another.

The NFL is a violent game. Players and especially quarterbacks get hurt. That's why the NFL has spent the last 15-20 years trying to come up with rules to protect the QB better.

I'm not saying Girgson is guilt free here. This is not a Get Out Of Jail Free card.

This is just some needed perspective for the torches and pitch forks crowd........ Slow your roll.......

Just sayin......

Good points.

Exhibit A: Tony Romo...who's been maimed in two out of the last three years behind a Cowboy O-line seen as the NFL gold standard.

There are a couple of layers to this...Grigson's selections, Gilbert's coaching and development of these guys, Pep using the rushing attack more smartly and Andrew needing to know when a pass play just isn't there and protecting not just the ball, but himself as well.

Those are the areas they can control and hopefully Luck stays off the injury list.

[King Colt]

Dear Mr. Grigson,

 

     I remember a Muhammed Ali fight when he kept asking the referee to stop the fight as his opponent was knocked out on his feet but the ref would not and finally after repeated requests from Ali the ref stepped in to stop the slaughter. I also live in Houston where I watched a rookie quarterback David Carr have his career destroyed by the lack of protection form a non-existent offensive line. All of the fans and media cried out for years for the Texans to build a wall of protection for this young man but like in Indy nothing was done. While I have been a Colts fan since my first diaper change I felt sorry for the young talent as the head office sipped champagne and laughed on their way to the bank. As I look back at that Ali fight it would have been just if his opponent was you. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Dear Mr. Grigson,

 

     I remember a Muhammed Ali fight when he kept asking the referee to stop the fight as his opponent was knocked out on his feet but the ref would not and finally after repeated requests from Ali the ref stepped in to stop the slaughter. I also live in Houston where I watched a rookie quarterback David Carr have his career destroyed by the lack of protection form a non-existent offensive line. All of the fans and media cried out for years for the Texans to build a wall of protection for this young man but like in Indy nothing was done. While I have been a Colts fan since my first diaper change I felt sorry for the young talent as the head office sipped champagne and laughed on their way to the bank. As I look back at that Ali fight it would have been just if his opponent was you. 

The Wepner fight was classic. Man did he take punishment. I think that may be the one you are referring too. David Carr was Great in college but to me he wasn't near as talented as Luck but to Carr's defense, his line stunk his whole career.

[mvbighead]

I agree. Yeah, Grigs has not been able to field a good offensive line but if Pags is really taking shots at Grigs with his comments then it shows he is aware of the personnel issues and is either unable to get the correct plays called that would help the o-line or that he is unwilling to get the correct plays called. Either way...

 

Pags isn't calling the offense though.  Pep is.  Granted, I suppose he ought to be able to influence Pep, but the reality is that he then becomes a micromanager.  In the real world or any profession, a micromanager needs to step back and let his team of experts do their job.  Unfortunately so far, Pep seems to be far from an expert.

[mvbighead]

So it is bad to throw INT, Luck better be throw out of bounds. But it's ok to throw to double covered WR, be hit, but not throw for 12 yards and get FG? Ok. What about calculated risks?

 

Calculated risks tend to go out the window when you're trying to overcome a deficit, or when you're trying to actually get something done on a drive where on the prior drives you were going 3 and out.  Eventually, a good QB is going to try to force things to happen to keep his offense on the field and his defense off the field.

 

I will not compare Luck to Favre in any way, but that was a big thing with Favre.  Eventually just giving your playmakers a chance to make plays.  If you constantly make the safe play, you'll likely not get many big plays.  You may not even move the chains as far too often receivers make plays when they're fairly well covered because that is the only option the QB has.  If you're simply throwing it out of bounds when everyone is covered, you may never make a throw to a receiver.  Some defenses are simply that good.  Sometimes you have to take chances.  Luck proved that in the 4th quarter.

[bcnelson]

Pags isn't calling the offense though.  Pep is.  Granted, I suppose he ought to be able to influence Pep, but the reality is that he then becomes a micromanager.  In the real world or any profession, a micromanager needs to step back and let his team of experts do their job.  Unfortunately so far, Pep seems to be far from an expert.

 

Holding subordinates accountable is not micromanagement.

 

The question becomes, based on 'some' stories we have been exposed to -- is PEP the subordinate of Chuck Pagano. Does chuck have the power to hold Pep accountable for his job performance?

[Dustin]

Fire Grigson.

[theanarchist]

This won't be a popular post,  but that's OK.....     but this needs to be said.

 

The Colts could've invested 5 first round draft picks on the OL and Andrew Luck STILL could get hurt.

 

Stuff happens.

 

It's the nature of the position.    Quarterbacks get hurt.    Doubt there's ever been one in the history of the game that didn't get hurt to one extent or another.

 

The NFL is a violent game.    Players and especially quarterbacks get hurt.    That's why the NFL has spent the last 15-20 years trying to come up with rules to protect the QB better.

 

I'm not saying Girgson is guilt free here.   This is not a Get Out Of Jail Free card.

 

This is just some needed perspective for the torches and pitch forks crowd........      Slow your roll.......

 

Just sayin......

This is like saying, well, I'm going to use the parachute that has the hole in it instead of the one that's brand new. No one is saying that injuries don't happen. We'd all feel a lot better if we had an offensive line that isnt swiss cheese. Then it would be a lot easier to swallow. The problem is, that everyone knows that the offensive line, especially the interior is junk. I've said before, Grigson has tried but he has failed. Combine some bad luck with bad decisions and here we are. Yes, we could have spent 5 first round picks on the OL and Luck could still get hurt but atleast we'd be sitting here saying: well, that's football instead of sitting here wishing that a better attempt was made at making the OL great.

[DougDew]

Luck got his shoulder hurt.

 

Obviously, Grigson should be fired for not drafting a G or a C instead of drafting Dwayne Allen.  We needed a G more than a second TE who never plays.

 

Is that how this goes?  Or can I not criticize the Allen pick.

[theanarchist]

Not to mention a puppet for an average GM.  If Luck is truly hurt and not just dealing with a bruise, things will get ugly very quickly.  Winning games is the only this left to hold this regime together this season.

I've not seen anything where it says that he is dealing with a "bruise". All that I've read is that he is dealing with right shoulder soreness. He wouldn't say whether he's had an mri or how many snaps he took in practice yesterday or what specifically it is that he is dealing with. To me, that is not a good sign. Take it from a guy who's college baseball playing son just went thru labrum surgery, diagnosing and treating shoulder problems in the throwing athlete are difficult and touchy.

[RollerColt]

Luck got his shoulder hurt.

 

Obviously, Grigson should be fired for not drafting a G or a C instead of drafting Dwayne Allen.  We needed a G more than a second TE who never plays.

 

Is that how this goes?  Or can I not criticize the Allen pick.

 

I guess in hindsight you are correct. But once again, Allen was another BPA....

 

Shoulda, coulda, woulda?

[Restored]

Good points.

Exhibit A: Tony Romo...who's been maimed in two out of the last three years behind a Cowboy O-line seen as the NFL gold standard.

There are a couple of layers to this...Grigson's selections, Gilbert's coaching and development of these guys, Pep using the rushing attack more smartly and Andrew needing to know when a pass play just isn't there and protecting not just the ball, but himself as well.

Those are the areas they can control and hopefully Luck stays off the injury list.

 

There's a difference between being injury-prone like Romo and taking an excessive amount of unnecessary hits. Luck has been the hits and sacks leader every year he's been in the league:

 

2012 leader - Andrew Luck (122) 2013 leader - Andrew Luck (115) 2014 leader - Andrew Luck (115)

 

Now does playcalling and Andrew holding on to the ball too long play a factor? Yes. But in reality, no QB would be doing a whole lot behind that offensive line.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

This won't be a popular post, but that's OK..... but this needs to be said.

The Colts could've invested 5 first round draft picks on the OL and Andrew Luck STILL could get hurt.

Stuff happens.

It's the nature of the position. Quarterbacks get hurt. Doubt there's ever been one in the history of the game that didn't get hurt to one extent or another.

The NFL is a violent game. Players and especially quarterbacks get hurt. That's why the NFL has spent the last 15-20 years trying to come up with rules to protect the QB better.

I'm not saying Girgson is guilt free here. This is not a Get Out Of Jail Free card.

This is just some needed perspective for the torches and pitch forks crowd........ Slow your roll.......

Just sayin......

Most people are seeing a repeat of the Peyton years and are unwilling to accept 14 years of wasted talent at QB

[DougDew]

I guess in hindsight you are correct. But once again, Allen was another BPA....

 

Shoulda, coulda, woulda?

Hindsight is wonderful isn't it?

 

At the about same time he drafted Allen, a TE who got injured, he signed two long term Olineman in Donald Thomas and Gosder Cherilous, who got injured and don't play.

 

Grigson should be applauded for making those great long term decisions in signing the G and the RT.

 

But Obviously, he should be fired for making that poor decision to draft a TE that is always injured..........

[theanarchist]

Hindsight is wonderful isn't it?

 

At the about same time he drafted Allen, a TE who got injured, he signed two long term Olineman in Donald Thomas and Gosder Cherilous, who got injured and don't play.

 

Grigson should be applauded for making those great long term decisions in signing the G and the RT.

 

But Obviously, he should be fired for making that poor decision to draft a TE that is always injured..........

The Gosder Cherilus move was always suspect from the beginning. He made Gosder the highest paid RT in the league knowing full well the man had some serious knee issues. As far as Thomas goes, it looked like a good move at the time then he tears his quad. Another injury that most people understand is one very difficult to return from. We lumbered thru last season with an offensive line that was one of the worst in the league and included Cherilus and Thomas trying to both return from serious chronic injuries. So, what is Grigson's plan? Sign an aging vet that was well past his prime and don't draft any offensive linemen. This is just bad management of the situation.

[Dustin]

Hindsight is wonderful isn't it?

At the about same time he drafted Allen, a TE who got injured, he signed two long term Olineman in Donald Thomas and Gosder Cherilous, who got injured and don't play.

Grigson should be applauded for making those great long term decisions in signing the G and the RT.

But Obviously, he should be fired for making that poor decision to draft a TE that is always injured..........

That first part is not correct.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

When in the draft war-room this year, Pagano should have made a banner to hang on the wall right next to the draft board.

 

2014-2015 SEASON: 

71 QB Hits (14 more than any team in the league).

150 quarterback hurries (fifth-most in the league).

77.4 % of QB injuries happen on passing plays

When sacked and landed on by a 300+ lb defensive lineman, eventually something is going to break

 

Then the following hand-outs to all in attendance at the draft war-room.

1. Bryan T. Kelly, MD*,

1. Ronnie P. Barnes, MS, ATC†,

1. John W. Powell, PhD, ATC‡, and

1. Russell F. Warren*,§

+ Author Affiliations

1. From the ^*Sports Medicine and Shoulder Service, Hospital for Special Surgery, New York, New York, the ^†New York Football Giants, Meadowlands, New Jersey, and the ^‡Graduate Athletic Training Program, Michigan State University, East Lansing, Michigan

1. Address correspondence to Russell F. Warren, Hospital for Special Surgery, 535 E. 70th St., New York, NY 10021 (warren@hss.edu).

Abstract

Background: Quarterbacks are at risk for shoulder injury secondary to both the throwing motion as well as from contact injury.

Objective: To delineate the incidence and etiology of shoulder injuries to quarterbacks in the National Football League (NFL).

Methods: Using the NFL Injury Surveillance System (NFLISS)

Results: A total of 1534 quarterback injuries were identified with a mean of 18.8 and a median of 6.0 days of playing time lost. The majority of these injuries occurred during a game (83.8%). Passing plays were responsible for 77.4% of all quarterback-related injuries. Shoulder injuries were the second most common injury reported (233 or 15.2%), following closely behind head injuries (15.4%). Direct trauma was responsible for 82.3% of the injuries, with acromioclavicular joint sprains being the most common injury overall (40%). Overuse injuries were responsible for 14% of the injuries, the most common being rotator cuff tendinitis (6.1%) followed by biceps tendinitis (3.5%).

Conclusion: In this review, the vast majority of shoulder injuries in quarterbacks occurred as a result of direct trauma (82.3%), and less than 15% were overuse injuries resulting from the actual throwing motion.

 

 

I doubt anyone would take him seriously if he rolled in there with an entire document laid out with Comic Sans.

[theanarchist]

That first part is not correct.

True, Allen was drafted in 2012 and those two were not signed until 2013

[Thewholefnshow28]

Okay, proof of concept. I withdraw my objection.

 

That day it happened was even worse on here and all over Facebook.  Many like to think we are a classy fanbase, but our fanbase is no different.  

[tfunky14]

I expect a heavy dose of Gore Sunday..

[Nate Belcher]

who is to blame??? If I was Luck I would be looking for a team that's willing to protect him? hint hint give this kid an O-line to protect him? simple?? Luck will be Luck instead we've seen wasted 1st round trades bust after bust if you guys wanna mimic the Peyton Manning era at least get a GM in their that knows what he's doing? this Ryan Griggs guy is the downfall of the franchise, never missed a colts game in 15 years!!!! this might be the first year I miss one cuz I can't stand to see a star QB like Luck get beat on week after week!!!!

Edited October 1, 2015 by 21isSuperman
Formatting

[mvbighead]

Holding subordinates accountable is not micromanagement.

 

The question becomes, based on 'some' stories we have been exposed to -- is PEP the subordinate of Chuck Pagano. Does chuck have the power to hold Pep accountable for his job performance?

 

While this is true, the direct comment I responded to suggested Pags was making offensive play calls.  If he steps into that territory, he's overreaching his bounds.

 

The other thing is the comments suggesting Pags has no control over the staff.  To me, our defense finally appears to be on the right track.  The offense isn't.  While we can certainly blame it on the line, I would think our line is very similar to last years with the exception of Cherilus who by all accounts was underperforming due to always playing injured.  We're not playing to our strengths right now, and it shows.  That to me should be corrected by pep.