Malcom Brown vs us

[krunk]

And that wasn't just any Joe blow OL Henry tossed aside on that play. That was Dbrickashaw Ferguson!

[Stephen]

Nice avatar by the way. I thought I thought of something different but we think a like . Mine is at a different angle though. Yeah the Parry, Anderson, and Dorsett picks are looking good about now. I was one of the few that loved the Dorsett pick because you cant teach speed. We needed more speed on Offense because other than TY we didn't have it.

I disagree. Moncrief is about as fast as dorsett and hilton. He actually may have better top speed.

[DougDew]

Anderson and Parry both have been solid. Grigson should get a thumbs up for those picks. Grigson actually has drafted decently but he hasn't done much building the Offensive Line. We see Andrew taking a beating and I think that is where the Grigson criticism comes in and well deserved because that is our franchise player. Grigson also traded a 2nd round pick to get Vontae which IMO should offset the Trent disaster.

Yes, Grigson should get credit...

 

This is what I don't understand...the supposed "rift" between him and Pagano.  Was Pagano not consulted when the Colts were drafting for a new defensive line?   I would think they worked together on who they were looking at in the draft.

[Defjamz26]

Remember how upset people were when we drafted Parry though? People were furious we traded up for him.

Some were furious we didn't get that guy Bennett from Ohio State and he isn't doing anything.

[BOTT]

Yes, Grigson should get credit...

 

This is what I don't understand...the supposed "rift" between him and Pagano.  Was Pagano not consulted when the Colts were drafting for a new defensive line?   I would think they worked together on who they were looking at in the draft.

I'm sure Grigson has final say.

[DougDew]

I'm sure Grigson has final say.

But its more than just drafting players in a particular round, its about going from bigger slower dlineman to quicker types.  That's a philosophical change that I think the HC has to be on board with.

[dw49]

I'm so unimpressed with Malcom Brown. I was before the draft, and I still am. He might prove me wrong, but I've said all along that I think he's ordinary, and so far, he's been ordinary for the Pats. I'd rather not have Brown, even if I hated the Dorsett pick. I'd rather have Goldman, if we're going to force it.

 

Hindsight being what it is -- with Toler, Butler and Smith being hurt -- Darby would have been perfect.

 

 

I think he's going to be an OK rotational type guy. I just don't see any real burst from him or anything disruptive.  He looks to be a DL that can hold the point of attack. I'm with you , I'll be very surprised that we will be kicking ourselves in the coulee for not taking him at pick 1.29. It's all talking head crap anyway. All that "this guy's a steal " that player was a reach." This old man says "poppycock ."  Show me 15-20 draft boards , then feed me the Malcom Brown "steal of the draft" nonsense. 

[Dustin]

Only you had a first round grade on him.

Isn't that all that matters?

[amfootball]

You know me as a nasty old man. But you also know I tell it like it is. I've watched both of these guys carefully for reasons we know are obvious. So far , by my eye this isn't even close. Anderson is the way more impressive player. I would bet anything if they redrafted tomorrow , Anderson would go before Brown. Not saying Brown is a bust , wasted pick , bad player ... any of that. What I'm saying is Anderson appears to have the potential to be special while Brown looks to have a lower ceiling. 

I was just thinking about you the other day, wondering where you were. Glad to see you back! You know I love the nasty old man. lol.

 

I will freely admit that I am not the best judge of lineman in general so I will concede to your view here but would add that is has been only 3 games. I am not sure we can realistically talk about anyone's ceiling at this point. Historically, Patriot defenders have taken a season or two to really flourish in the system. Especially when talking about a player like Brown who is being asked to play multiple roles.

 

I would also add that the entire Pats 7 is very stout this year especially their LBs - not sure if you saw but the Pats just traded for Bostic from the Bears to add even more depth. I am pretty sure Mayo will be gone at season's end as they have Hightower and Mayo will cost $11 mil against the cap. So Brown does not need to be a world beater at this point so the Pats are bringing him along. As with every team, it is all about the fit. Many Colts fans did not think Brown would be good fit schemeatically for you guys anyways so I am not sure I really even get the comparison. As you know, the bigger deal for you guys is how Doresett performs as he was the one that was taken first overall when you could have had your pick of any top defensive player or offensive lineman so I see that as the more relevant story but if folks want to compare Anderson and Brown that is fine. We will see how things shake out at the end of the season and next year.

[ztboiler]

What position do you think Brown plays?

 

Stephone Anthony was overdrafted at #31. I liked him, but thought he was a 50-ish range player. And so far, he's been bad for the Saints. He might wind up being a really good player, but I don't think he was worthy of a first rounder. 

 

Darby was the 50th pick. So we should have reached 20 spots? It's hard enough finding good players at the end of the first round, why reach down halfway into the second round?

 

Donovan Smith, I assume is who you're talking about. He's been bad. I thought he was overrated to begin with, and then he went a round earlier than I thought he should have.

 

These are all just my opinions, but just going off of the players you're naming, they wouldn't have been good picks, IMO. I'd have rather traded down, but if I had to make a pick at #29, I'd rather have Dorsett. 

It would be easier if people could differentiate frustration that want they wanted was not available from whether or not the player picked was best available or not.

[krunk]

I don't want to turn this into an argument, so this is more of me being curious.  I think the Pats have some good talent in the front 7, but to say they are stout is a little puzzling.  I mean Deangelo Williams ran wild over them in the Pittsburgh game and  The Bills put up 37 plus points against that D including 160 yards on the ground.  You take Tyrod Taylors numbers out of it and you still end up with 111 for the running backs.   I mean the Jags game was better, but it's the Jags so I'm curious where the Stout part comes in.

 

I mean they've made some improvement in the pass rush so are you maybe talking about that?

[amfootball]

I don't want to turn this into an argument, so this is more of me being curious.  I think the Pats have some good talent in the front 7, but to say they are stout is a little puzzling.  I mean Deangelo Williams ran wild over them in the Pittsburgh game and  The Bills put up 37 plus points against that D including 160 yards on the ground.  You take Tyrod Taylors numbers out of it and you still end up with 111 for the running backs.   I mean the Jags game was better, but it's the Jags so I'm curious where the Stout part comes in.

 

I mean they've made some improvement in the pass rush so are you maybe talking about that?

I think the talent is stout but obviously they are still playing into form given all the new players. I expect them to continue to improve as the seasons progresses and Bill keeps matching and mixing. But for sure the pressure on the QB has been improved which is critical for this unit to succeed.

[dw49]

I was just thinking about you the other day, wondering where you were. Glad to see you back! You know I love the nasty old man. lol.

 

I will freely admit that I am not the best judge of lineman in general so I will concede to your view here but would add that is has been only 3 games. I am not sure we can realistically talk about anyone's ceiling at this point. Historically, Patriot defenders have taken a season or two to really flourish in the system. Especially when talking about a player like Brown who is being asked to play multiple roles.

 

I would also add that the entire Pats 7 is very stout this year especially their LBs - not sure if you saw but the Pats just traded for Bostic from the Bears to add even more depth. I am pretty sure Mayo will be gone at season's end as they have Hightower and Mayo will cost $11 mil against the cap. So Brown does not need to be a world beater at this point so the Pats are bringing him along. As with every team, it is all about the fit. Many Colts fans did not think Brown would be good fit schemeatically for you guys anyways so I am not sure I really even get the comparison. As you know, the bigger deal for you guys is how Doresett performs as he was the one that was taken first overall when you could have had your pick of any top defensive player or offensive lineman so I see that as the more relevant story but if folks want to compare Anderson and Brown that is fine. We will see how things shake out at the end of the season and next year.

 

 

Your right , I haven't been on much. As for Brown and the Colts , I think it car from the many posts that insisted the Colts should have drafted Brown instead of Dorsett as they needed DL help. So what some are now saying is if they chose Brown , they would not have Anderson who might be better. Then again I guess one could say that maybe the 3rd round pick that replaced Anedrson might have been better than Dorsett ? Goes on and on. Silly but it's all part of the forum I guess. 

 

And yeah .. the Pats might end up perfectly fine with Brown. It is only 3 games and he's in the rotation .. so can't be playing badly. It's just my opinion that he doesn't appear to be an explosive player .

[bababooey]

I just read that Tyrod Taylor was sacked eight (8!) times last week against the Pats and Brown didn't have one? Wow

 

Edit: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2430090-stanfords-henry-anderson-provides-rare-interior-disruption-for-mid-round-prospe

 

Here is an article I found on Henry Anderson written before the draft comparing him to Leonard Williams aka the best player of the draft according to a lot of "experts".

 

"With a few more pounds and his underrated short-area quickness, Anderson will be making plays at the NFL level for years to come. One shrewd NFL franchise is going to get a player who can disrupt the interior like few players in this draft for a phenomenal value."

[amfootball]

I just read that Tyrod Taylor was sacked eight (8!) times last week against the Pats and Brown didn't have one? Wow

It was the Jones and Collins show. They combined for 6 of the 8.

[bababooey]

It was the Jones and Collins show. They combined for 6 of the 8.

That's what I assumed since Malcolm Brown didn't have any.

[dw49]

It was the Jones and Collins show. They combined for 6 of the 8.

 

Collins is good at football.

[amfootball]

That's what I assumed since Malcolm Brown didn't have any.

He is more on the line to take up space similar to Wilfork to stop the run and so the other guys can rush. Again, just a rookie so easing him in.

[Superman]

Isn't that all that matters?

 

Sure, in your draft war room. I find it hard to believe that you would have taken Grady Jarrett in the first round, though.

[Superman]

It would be easier if people could differentiate frustration that want they wanted was not available from whether or not the player picked was best available or not.

 

[NewColtsFan]

Grady Jarrett

 

What am I not understanding here?

 

Here's Jarret's page with the Falcons.

 

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/team/roster/Grady-Jarrett/3b0cf75c-efe2-4c87-94ed-0d0c73105db8

 

In 3 games,  he has one tackle and nothing else.      How many snaps is he playing?

 

I'm guessing he's grading out high despite the lack of production?

[Dustin]

What am I not understanding here?

 

Here's Jarret's page with the Falcons.

 

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/team/roster/Grady-Jarrett/3b0cf75c-efe2-4c87-94ed-0d0c73105db8

 

In 3 games,  he has one tackle and nothing else.      How many snaps is he playing?

 

I'm guessing he's grading out high despite the lack of production?

 

He's not getting many snaps thus far. Too soon to tell either way. 

[Dustin]

Sure, in your draft war room. I find it hard to believe that you would have taken Grady Jarrett in the first round, though.

 

I would have taken Carl Davis like we should have anyway. Or Kendricks. Pretty much a toss up. 

[ColtStronger]

Long story short, we got 2 very good defensive linemen in the 3rd and 5th rounds for what'll probably end up being cheaper than what Malcom Brown alone will command as a first round pick.

 

Tip of the hat to Grigson on that one.

As much as I hate to say it, because I was one who wanted Malcom Brown, and was upset with the Dorsett pick, it did turn out better this way.  On a side note, I am still weary about the Dorsett pick considering the OL has been (and still is) an Achilles heel hindering our offense. 

[cbear]

https://vine.co/v/eP6qAuTYU5D

 

Wow.  Nice.... Don't know how I missed that one.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

As much as I hate to say it, because I was one who wanted Malcom Brown, and was upset with the Dorsett pick, it did turn out better this way.  On a side note, I am still weary about the Dorsett pick considering the OL has been (and still is) an Achilles heel hindering our offense. 

 

I don't like the current o-line either, but like many have said, if they can just stop with the penalties, even cut them in half, their jobs will be a lot easier. And at some point, the offense is going to have to start using quick passes to neutralize blitzes. Not sure why that's not happening yet, but I hate it.

[bababooey]

Wow. Nice.... Don't know how I missed that one.

That was 3rd and short by the way.

[COLTS449]

Collins is good at football.

 

True. Jamie Collins is a freak. Even though he's a Pat, He's one of my favorite players in the league. Special, special player. Look for him to go to quite a few Pro Bowls

[COLTS449]

He is more on the line to take up space similar to Wilfork to stop the run and so the other guys can rush. Again, just a rookie so easing him in.

 

What do you think about Easley? You think he'll reach his potential? It hasn't started too well for him.

[Malakai432]

I think the talent is stout but obviously they are still playing into form given all the new players. I expect them to continue to improve as the seasons progresses and Bill keeps matching and mixing. But for sure the pressure on the QB has been improved which is critical for this unit to succeed.

I wouldn't worry too much about the defense since it seems like no one can prevent the offense from scoring 5,294,010,748 ppg. The defense just needs to play serviceable and they will probably trounce the AFC. Lot of season left but I don't expect them to start stinking it up anytime soon.

[JPFolks]

You can look at this many ways.  First, there's too little data to fairly compare.  1 start versus 3 starts for the others isn't even close to a fair comparison.  Second, the fact that Brown has cracked the starting lineup of a much stronger Patriots team is impressive on its own.  Unlike the Colts who did a firesale on the entire line because they sucked so bad, the Patriots really needed to fill one spot left by Wilfork and did so.  Third, imagine if we had Anderson, Parry, Lankford AND Brown right now.  Then we have the nucleus of a D Line that could take us forward for a decade.  You know, some perennial players with depth to anchor down a front seven where in the next two drafts we could focus more on replacing our entire Linebacking corps. That sounds pretty good. 

 

To be fair, with the clearly ancient and ineffective Johnson on our team (who I STILL insist is a big downgrade from even an equally slow Reggie Wayne who had chemistry and knowledge to make up for much of it versus what appears to be a complete lack of chemistry and timing with Johnson) it is a good thing we have Dorsett.  Looks like we have 3 young WR's that barring injury could be our starting 3 for a decade if they stay healthy. 

 

The draft is always a crapshoot.  Grigson is 2-2 in that department which isn't good enough, even with what appears to be a home run this year.  Imagine if he'd gotten 2 or 3 more o-lineman who could actually play in those two middle years.  We might be 3-0, dominating and people would still consider us a threat to New England for the Super Bowl instead of everyone waiting to see if NE can beat us by 50 or more in a couple weeks.  

[amfootball]

What do you think about Easley? You think he'll reach his potential? It hasn't started too well for him.

Easley was looking great this preseason. Explosive and making plays and then the hip pointer. A real bummer. I believe he will play vs Dallas in two weeks as Pats are on the bye this week. He was listed as questionable last week. I think he is an important piece to this defense and am hopeful the injury bug is behind him but I guess we will see. His presence on the line will help everyone especially Brown.

[amfootball]

I wouldn't worry too much about the defense since it seems like no one can prevent the offense from scoring 5,294,010,748 ppg. The defense just needs to play serviceable and they will probably trounce the AFC. Lot of season left but I don't expect them to start stinking it up anytime soon.

I think the defense will be good enough in the regular season but we will see about the post-season. What is interesting to me is last year as good as the defense was in the regular season, it was pretty putrid in the post-season vs both the Ravens and Seahawks. It was really Brady and the O that carried the day. I think that will have to happen again this year for them to win it all.

[SOMDColtsfan]

Anderson does move around from one side to the other, haven't noticed whether Parry is asked to do the same. Even though it's early in the season, and considering where this d-line was a year ago... the stat below is a vast improvement.

 

Through 3 games, opponents have 22 carries for 46 yards (2.09 YPC) when running up the middle (left/right of Center) vs the Colts Defense.

— My Colts Account (@MyColtsAccount)

September 28, 2015

That stat makes me so happy I could cry lol

[csmopar]

That stat makes me so happy I could cry lol

does me too but sadly, with the way Vontae is playing, plus Andrew's mistakes plus rookie CBs, Brady and Co are going to an early Thanksgiving feast on us.  I can see 50, 60, hell 80-90 points being hung up.  We barely beat TN, got smacked by buffalo and NYJ

[K-148]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/30/how-all-2015-first-round-picks-have-played/

Malcom Brown is big ineffective against the run body in the middle...

[Rally5]

First it isn't a comparison as Anderson and Brown really don't play much of the same role.

 

Second knowing now that the org would change defensive line philosophy the Brown pick wouldn't have been a good one no matter.

 

Third the issue was never (or at least for me) grabbing Dorsett over Brown.  The issue was taking a receiver when there was a ton of other options.  We need a future ILB Anthony was there, we need a future Corner, Darby was there, we need a future Lineman, Smith was there... Again this was the issue not Dorsett.  The good thing is Dorsett can play but for a GM who is supposedly saying he is always about the future it sure seems odd that we draft a first round receiver (where we had plenty of talent plus the TE's) instead of taking a player where we are going to have questions marks in the future (like ILB, Corner, Guard, Tackle).  

 

Even with retrospect right now Dorsett really isn't something that we needed.  I'm fine with Moncrief/Hilton/Johnson as long as Johnson sees the field less than Fleener/Doyle.  Especially give our Line and play calling situation. 

Thank you!!!!

[DougDew]

Remember how upset people were when we drafted Parry though? People were furious we traded up for him.

Some were furious we didn't get that guy Bennett from Ohio State and he isn't doing anything.

I admit it, I criticized the Parry pick, and thought the trade up was a total waste.  Guess that's why I'm not a GM.

[Malakai432]

I think the defense will be good enough in the regular season but we will see about the post-season. What is interesting to me is last year as good as the defense was in the regular season, it was pretty putrid in the post-season vs both the Ravens and Seahawks. It was really Brady and the O that carried the day. I think that will have to happen again this year for them to win it all.

 

Yeah that is a really good point about last year, and of course they played exceptional vs the Colts.  The most supposed high octane O they should've faced in the post season.

[SOMDColtsfan]

does me too but sadly, with the way Vontae is playing, plus Andrew's mistakes plus rookie CBs, Brady and Co are going to an early Thanksgiving feast on us.  I can see 50, 60, hell 80-90 points being hung up.  We barely beat TN, got smacked by buffalo and NYJ

Hopefully in a perfect world, the football Gods smile down upon us and everybody is healthy by then and the Colts offense is hitting on all cylinders..that thing got a hemi in it? lol