Opposing coaches forcing Luck to be a runner

[chad72]

One common theme I am seeing in Belichick defending Peyton and Luck is that he'd rather overplay the coverage side of things to not let Peyton or Luck beat the Patriots with their arms. Belichick forces the Colts to run the ball - either with the RB or the QB. The QB run was not in play with Peyton but is in play with Luck. Belichick, as a Giants' DC, did the same vs Jim Kelly and the Bills. He let Thurman Thomas run for 100 yards but would not give up easy yardage in the passing game.

 

If other coaches continue to follow the strategy of forcing Luck to be a runner, should the Colts' coaches be comfortable enough to let Luck scramble for 100 yards if necessary on a consistent basis instead of forcing it in the passing game? Is there a downside to rhythm not being established in the passing game there?

 

Thoughts??

[bigt]

Against the Patriots or any other team playing that scheme, I think Luck should run the ball and slide as quickly as possible to avoid injury.  Once he starts cranking out 5 or 6 yards a carry for a couple of quarters, the defense should start playing the run allowing the Colts to pass again. 

[backshoulderfade]

Frank Gore. Boom is our relief runner. That's pretty nice.

[Cribbsfaircatch]

And this is one of my issues w/ Andrew.At no point did he ever just try to have 10-15 rush attempts. And those lanes were open. He'd rather lob it onto 2 and 3 dbs. He seems embarrassed that he can run.

[backshoulderfade]

And this is one of my issues w/ Andrew.At no point did he ever just try to have 10-15 rush attempts. And those lanes were open. He'd rather lob it onto 2 and 3 dbs. He seems embarrassed that he can run.

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/06/05/andrew-luck-russell-wilson-colin-kaepernick-robert-griffin-cam-newtown-running-quarterbacks-analysis

[throwing BBZ]

 I think your assessment is 180 degrees off. JMO of course.
 You make a pocket passer out of him, don`t let him move left to make time, and TRY to take away the deep ball.
  You witnessed Andrew Stinking in the short/mid-range Playoff game against them.

  Andrew holds the the ball till after the break giving the DB time to recover and also way to often fails to hit his receiver in the numbers accurately.
 Three years of it should be enough for some to get this.  Andre J will test this. Andrew will HAVE to get better.

[Superman]

One common theme I am seeing in Belichick defending Peyton and Luck is that he'd rather overplay the coverage side of things to not let Peyton or Luck beat the Patriots with their arms. Belichick forces the Colts to run the ball - either with the RB or the QB. The QB run was not in play with Peyton but is in play with Luck. Belichick, as a Giants' DC, did the same vs Jim Kelly and the Bills. He let Thurman Thomas run for 100 yards but would not give up easy yardage in the passing game.

 

If other coaches continue to follow the strategy of forcing Luck to be a runner, should the Colts' coaches be comfortable enough to let Luck scramble for 100 yards if necessary on a consistent basis instead of forcing it in the passing game? Is there a downside to rhythm not being established in the passing game there?

 

Thoughts??

 

I think we're skilled enough at the receiving spots and good enough at QB that we don't have to worry about rhythm. It's not like the Tebow Broncos, where the receivers are being asked to block downfield 70% of the time and have no chemistry with the QB, etc.

 

If it were me, I'd encourage Luck to run as often as possible, and every once in a while, I'd throw in some designed keepers, especially attacking the edge of the defense, to keep them honest. Doing so is such a stress to any defense, even the best, that it throws off everything else they want to do against you.

 

However, the more traditional counter to a defense dropping back to cover is to have a strong, consistent run game. Which the Colts don't have... yet.

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

One common theme I am seeing in Belichick defending Peyton and Luck is that he'd rather overplay the coverage side of things to not let Peyton or Luck beat the Patriots with their arms. Belichick forces the Colts to run the ball - either with the RB or the QB. The QB run was not in play with Peyton but is in play with Luck. Belichick, as a Giants' DC, did the same vs Jim Kelly and the Bills. He let Thurman Thomas run for 100 yards but would not give up easy yardage in the passing game.

 

If other coaches continue to follow the strategy of forcing Luck to be a runner, should the Colts' coaches be comfortable enough to let Luck scramble for 100 yards if necessary on a consistent basis instead of forcing it in the passing game? Is there a downside to rhythm not being established in the passing game there?

 

Thoughts??

In order to beat the Pats, you have to be prepared to slog in a muddy game and be able

to run the ball effectively. A fancy passing attack has gotten us nowhere against this team

but we are going to put it to the test with this receiving corp.

 

If you keep doing what you are doing, then you will keep getting what you are getting......

If we can't beat em with these weapons then we never will with this style of football.

[BOTT]

Meh, i don't think the pats had any respect for the colts running game and dropped everyone back in coverage.

[crazycolt1]

Meh, i don't think the pats had any respect for the colts running game and dropped everyone back in coverage.

I think you hit it more on the truth that anything else. When there is threat of run it makes things a lot easier for the defense. Things should be better with Gore running and catching passes out of the back field. Plus the addition of Allen coming off blocks and making catches.

[NewColtsFan]

And this is one of my issues w/ Andrew.  At no point did he ever just try to have 10-15 rush attempts.  And those lanes were open. He'd rather lob it onto 2 and 3 dbs. He seems embarrassed that he can run.

 

 

Where does this stuff come from?!?

 

Please God,  make this STOP!!        

[The Fish]

Boom Herron wasn't beating anyone.. BOTT basically nailed it.

[Lawrence Owen]

The Run game was not there after Bradshaw went down.  Herron is not much of a power back, and puts the rock on the ground too much.  Richardson just sucked.  Gore, Robinson, and  hopefully, Ballard will be a much better stable.  Those 3 are all one cut downhill runners.  our o-line is good for one cut runners.  man blocking allows a back to make their decision as they get to the line and go from there.  It's not made for shifty backs like how Trent tried to run.  

But I  agree Luck needs to tuck and run is he sees 10-15 yards open in front of him.  But slide immediately, and not press for the yards.

[akcolt]

One common theme I am seeing in Belichick defending Peyton and Luck is that he'd rather overplay the coverage side of things to not let Peyton or Luck beat the Patriots with their arms. Belichick forces the Colts to run the ball - either with the RB or the QB. The QB run was not in play with Peyton but is in play with Luck. Belichick, as a Giants' DC, did the same vs Jim Kelly and the Bills. He let Thurman Thomas run for 100 yards but would not give up easy yardage in the passing game

If other coaches continue to follow the strategy of forcing Luck to be a runner, should the Colts' coaches be comfortable enough to let Luck scramble for 100 yards if necessary on a consistent basis instead of forcing it in the passing game? Is there a downside to rhythm not being established in the passing game there?

Thoughts??

Luck was 2nd in the league with 4,761 yards last year. Who else stopped the passing game? The loss vs Pitt he had 400 yards. I guess you could say Dallaa but that was a no show and Hasselbeck played the 2nd half. With the added weapons I don't see this being a problem.

[akcolt]

And this is one of my issues w/ Andrew.At no point did he ever just try to have 10-15 rush attempts. And those lanes were open. He'd rather lob it onto 2 and 3 dbs. He seems embarrassed that he can run.

10-15 rushing attempts a game would be 160-240 RUSHING attempts per season. You think we should run the option? The QB with the most attempts all last year was Kapernik 104 about 6.5 carries per game. I'm not looking for Luck to break 100 carries I'd like him to be around a long time.

You think Luck is embarrassed because he didn't run the ball more? He was 4th in the league for rushing attempts by a QB with 64 so 4x a game on average.

Where do you come up with this stuff. 10-15 carries a game is ALMOST humorous a lot of RB's don't carry the ball that many times in fact only 9 had more than 240 carries last year. That would be 15 per game.There were 27 RB's with more than 10 carries per game over 160.

[GoColts8818]

I think if Frank Gore delivers the way the Colts hope he will this style of defense is going to very hard to use against the Colts because then they can just run at you until you come out of it.  Honestly the Colts have so many weapons on offense it should be nearly impossible for any defense to shut them down completely this year. 

[Cribbsfaircatch]

10-15 rushing attempts a game would be 160-240 RUSHING attempts per season. You think we should run the option? The QB with the most attempts all last year was Kapernik 104 about 6.5 carries per game. I'm not looking for Luck to break 100 carries I'd like him to be around a long time.

You think Luck is embarrassed because he didn't run the ball more? He was 4th in the league for rushing attempts by a QB with 64 so 4x a game on average.

Where do you come up with this stuff. 10-15 carries a game is ALMOST humorous a lot of RB's don't carry the ball that many times in fact only 9 had more than 240 carries last year. That would be 15 per game.There were 27 RB's with more than 10 carries per game over 160.

Where did I say he should do that every gm? He should do it in Thebadguy playoffs if it calls for it. Especially vs NE whem u know your run gm sux.

I like Luck, abd I dont want to argue w/ u guys about him. I will say that I believe he's slightly overrated. I have seen nothing from him that would make me rank him higher than Romo or Ben, but he's constantly rated higher than those guys. That, I dont get. Especially when both of them blew us out last yr.

Another criticism I have of Luck is he's a lil too robotic in his mechanics. Wish he was more loose like Rodgers, Brady and Romo. I like how they just stand in the pocket natural, where Luck crotches down and looks uncomfortable @ times.

[GoColts8818]

Where did I say he should do that every gm? He should do it in Thebadguy playoffs if it calls for it. Especially vs NE whem u know your run gm sux.

I like Luck, abd I dont want to argue w/ u guys about him. I will say that I believe he's slightly overrated. I have seen nothing from him that would make me rank him higher than Romo or Ben, but he's constantly rated higher than those guys. That, I dont get. Especially when both of them blew us out last yr.

Another criticism I have of Luck is he's a lil too robotic in his mechanics. Wish he was more loose like Rodgers, Brady and Romo. I like how they just stand in the pocket natural, where Luck crotches down and looks uncomfortable @ times.

for starters Romo and Big Ben didn't blow out the Colts. The Cowboys and Steelers blew out the Colts. Did Romo and Big Ben play a role in that? Yes, however just because one team beats another is really bad way to decide that the other QB is better. Peyton Manning's Colts once got blown out by David Gurrad's Jags does that mean he should be rated higher than Peyton or did the Colts have a bad day on a day the Jags had a really good day?

Keep in mind Luck is going into year four in the NFL and is still developing. So no he's not going to look as good as someone like a Rodgers at times. It's the fact that he is only going into year four and based on performance you can put him in a group with the leagues top QBs that makes people go wow this kid is special because if he's this good now how good will he be in his prime.

Another factor why Luck gets so much credit is the national media tends to underrate his team around him. So they view it as Luck doing it all on his own. Fair or not that's the way it is.

If you personally feel Luck is overrated that's your right but a large number of people, myself included, are going to disagree with your opinion.

[zibby43]

Where did I say he should do that every gm? He should do it in Thebadguy playoffs if it calls for it. Especially vs NE whem u know your run gm sux.

I like Luck, abd I dont want to argue w/ u guys about him. I will say that I believe he's slightly overrated. I have seen nothing from him that would make me rank him higher than Romo or Ben, but he's constantly rated higher than those guys. That, I dont get. Especially when both of them blew us out last yr.

Another criticism I have of Luck is he's a lil too robotic in his mechanics. Wish he was more loose like Rodgers, Brady and Romo. I like how they just stand in the pocket natural, where Luck crotches down and looks uncomfortable @ times.

 

Are you an expert in evaluating QB mechanics? 

 

No offense, but it is apparent that the answer is no.  Luck has excellent mechanics.  He has great pocket awareness, he moves in the pocket well, and he is extremely skilled in keeping his eyes downfield/progressing through his reads.  Standing upright with flat feet is not a method I'd teach any young QBs.

 

Luck is not the best QB in the league . . . yet.  But he's getting there.  At this point, he is clearly a top 5 QB (at the very least).  The only others I'd put above him right now are (in no particular order) P. Manning, Brady, and Rodgers. 

 

It's incredible that Luck's even in that "best in the league" conversation.  He's only 3 years in to his career.  Show me one QB that has had a better first 3 years.  Luck already set the record for passing yards through 3 seasons.

 

He was the best play-action quarterback in the league last year.  Including the postseason, Luck threw from play-action on 20.8% of his passing attempts, with 13 touchdowns and one interception.

 

There was nothing "robotic" about this throw, either.

 

[theanarchist]

One common theme I am seeing in Belichick defending Peyton and Luck is that he'd rather overplay the coverage side of things to not let Peyton or Luck beat the Patriots with their arms. Belichick forces the Colts to run the ball - either with the RB or the QB. The QB run was not in play with Peyton but is in play with Luck. Belichick, as a Giants' DC, did the same vs Jim Kelly and the Bills. He let Thurman Thomas run for 100 yards but would not give up easy yardage in the passing game.

 

If other coaches continue to follow the strategy of forcing Luck to be a runner, should the Colts' coaches be comfortable enough to let Luck scramble for 100 yards if necessary on a consistent basis instead of forcing it in the passing game? Is there a downside to rhythm not being established in the passing game there?

 

Thoughts??

Well, in our most recent history against the Pats the run game wasn't an option. Because we were behind by so much early in the games and the Patriots offensive plan was to run the ball and control the clock thus the offense couldn't afford to do anything except drop back to pass.

[PeterBowman]

Luck's not close to his prime yet...........that should scare the crap out of the rest of the league.

 

With the weapons available this year and if the running game is merely solid, it won't be fair.

[will426]

Saints did this to us in the Super Bowl I remember Addai having a year with about 1 if not any 100 yard games and we go to the Super Bowl he has one because the saints dropped everyone back in coverage and what did we do

[lollygagger8]

I'm all about having more designed runs for Luck. He is deceptively fast, and it keep the D guessing. 

[SteelCityColt]

Where did I say he should do that every gm? He should do it in Thebadguy playoffs if it calls for it. Especially vs NE whem u know your run gm sux.

I like Luck, abd I dont want to argue w/ u guys about him.

No you don't want to acknowledge you made a statement that was just not true in that Luck doesn't run very often. I mean come on, 5 minutes of Googling you could have checked it yourself.

 

 

I will say that I believe he's slightly overrated. I have seen nothing from him that would make me rank him higher than Romo or Ben, but he's constantly rated higher than those guys. That, I dont get. Especially when both of them blew us out last yr.

But plenty who I daresay know a lot more about scouting QBs have done, and no offense I'm going to go with the people who do this for a living. 

Another criticism I have of Luck is he's a lil too robotic in his mechanics. Wish he was more loose like Rodgers, Brady and Romo. I like how they just stand in the pocket natural, where Luck crotches down and looks uncomfortable @ times.

Remember last time you brought this up, saying he telegraphs play action with his stance and then couldn't tell the difference yourself from the screenies posted. His mechanics are fine, people love to pick fault with his arm because they know mentally he's in the mold of Peyton so they have find something to pick on him for.

[chad72]

I think we're skilled enough at the receiving spots and good enough at QB that we don't have to worry about rhythm. It's not like the Tebow Broncos, where the receivers are being asked to block downfield 70% of the time and have no chemistry with the QB, etc.

 

If it were me, I'd encourage Luck to run as often as possible, and every once in a while, I'd throw in some designed keepers, especially attacking the edge of the defense, to keep them honest. Doing so is such a stress to any defense, even the best, that it throws off everything else they want to do against you.

 

However, the more traditional counter to a defense dropping back to cover is to have a strong, consistent run game. Which the Colts don't have... yet.

 

That is what it will come down to vs elite teams - either RB runs or QB runs at critical times in the playoffs, IMO. I like the idea of designed keepers. I sometimes look at Russell Wilson and check 1,2,3 and take off if there is a crease at critical times is what I see. Luck, I feel, is just as capable of doing that. I just did not see it as much in the playoffs. Pass first QB is what we all want for longevity but when that passing yardages comes at the cost of forcing it and turnovers, it might be a good thing to have designed plays for Luck's legs with others blocking, that is my thought process going into a playoff game.

 

The question becomes - is that a sword we are going to have to live by and die by, just like Big Ben. Big Ben will escape and make some amazing plays because of his athletic ability but then, it has led to several injuries too, is that a sword we want to live by? 

[Superman]

That is what it will come down to vs elite teams - either RB runs or QB runs at critical times in the playoffs, IMO. I like the idea of designed keepers. I sometimes look at Russell Wilson and check 1,2,3 and take off if there is a crease at critical times is what I see. Luck, I feel, is just as capable of doing that. I just did not see it as much in the playoffs. Pass first QB is what we all want for longevity but when that passing yardages comes at the cost of forcing it and turnovers, it might be a good thing to have designed plays for Luck's legs, that is my thought process going into a playoff game.

 

The question becomes - is that a sword we are going to have to live by and die by, just like Big Ben. Big Ben will escape and make some amazing plays because of his athletic ability but then, it has led to several injuries too, is that a sword we want to live by?

 

I don't think the injuries come from scrambling, not when the QB gets down. The injuries come from having two defensive linemen dragging you down in the pocket. Only the reckless QBs -- Robert Griffin, for instance -- get blown up when they scramble. Luck will get down or run out of bounds. I've been saying for two years that Luck doesn't run enough.

 

Either way, I agree with you. A running QB stresses the defense in yet another way. We know we'll stretch the field vertically, we should have good possession guys across the middle with the TEs and Andre Johnson, and when we want to go with the checkdown game, like we did in the playoffs, the backs can produce. If we start threatening the edge of the defense with QB runs, I think defensive coordinators will melt down. The passing game will be close to unstoppable if they have to worry about Luck running more.

 

It could also help loosen up the run defense, get teams in nickel and dime, and then maybe we can hammer the middle to finish some games off.

 

Ideally, though, the Niners game plan (and the Eagles game plan, which just came apart at the end of the game) is what they want to do. Shorten the game, score efficiently, protect the defense, go home with a W. But having all these weapons and this diversity in the passing game means if we have to rely on the QB to throw the ball, it shouldn't be a problem.

[bleevit]

If I am seeing what I think I'm seeing, I don't know that without some ridiculous defensive scheme other teams will be able to stop the Colts from passing.  So if you want to play 3 in the box Frank will get 250 yards and the other team will get 4 possessions.  I'd certainly take those odds and I'm betting Chuck and Pep would too.

[spartancolt]

Flawed post and argument. Coaches don't force QB's to run. If that was the case every QB would be running. We had zero run game period. And Belichick dropped into coverage. He said beat me with the run. If you have a run game you can neutralize this tactic. That's why balanced teams win super bowls. Tho I have always thot Luck shud run more

[cmgww]

I remember during Luck's rookie and 2nd seasons he SEEMED to scramble a lot more than he did last season. Again I don't have stats to back me up, just what I remember. I recall last season him hanging in more, and forcing throws (often INTs)...my feeling is a few things were in play. First: the team in 2012 was a rag tag bunch of misfits really, a bunch of rookies and Reggie with a terrible offensive line. Luck was playing on instinct and a rookie himself. He ran bc he had to, didn't have time to go through his progressions or rushed it and gave up on the play. In 2013 he was better but still ran when he saw the opportunity. I think last year there was a concerted effort by the coaching staff to limit his running for his own health. And I think it hurt us a bit. There were plenty of times he had open lanes to run and stayed back to throw a poor ball. I don't want him turning into RG3 circa 2012...but let him run if it is there. It is just another thing defenses have to worry about. He is sturdy and by now knows how to slide when needed (in 2012 I about lost it every time he'd dive head first after running)