Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

[ViriLudant]

GoColts, if this was any other team that hadn't dominated the NFL for well over a decade, this wouldn't have been a story at all.

Jealousy. Pure jealousy. As MANY NFL players have said, the allegations didn't help the Patriots win.

[GoColts8818]

GoColts, if this was any other team that hadn't dominated the NFL for well over a decade, this wouldn't have been a story at all.

Jealousy. Pure jealousy. As MANY NFL players have said, the allegations didn't help the Patriots win.

yep I know that's what you want to believe.

[Jason_]

GoColts, if this was any other team that hadn't dominated the NFL didn't have an established history of cheating for well over a decade, this wouldn't have been a story at all.

Jealousy. Pure jealousy. As MANY NFL players have said, the allegations didn't help the Patriots win.

 

FIFY

 

Also, the NFL is jealous of the Patriots' success?  Is that what you meant?

[Swan Ronson]

GoColts, if this was any other team that hadn't dominated the NFL for well over a decade, this wouldn't have been a story at all.

Jealousy. Pure jealousy. As MANY NFL players have said, the allegations didn't help the Patriots win.

If the Patriots hadn't come out all guns blazing right from the start it wouldn't be a story. That's the long and the short of it, whether Patriots fans want to believe it or not. The Patriots brought this on themselves.

[ViriLudant]

Well if Kraft said it, it all MUST be true.

 

Everyone bow down!

My point, which clearly sailed over your head, was that Colt fans claimed that Kraft supporting the NFL's decision in May indicated Brady's guilt.

That argument fails now.

[ViriLudant]

FIFY

 

Also, the NFL is jealous of the Patriots' success?  Is that what you meant?

What is one of the NFL's greatest claims?

Parity.

NE destroys that.

[Superman]

It's hilarious to me.

 

Brady says his people informed the investigators that, under no circumstances, would they be handing over his phone or information on his phone. The phone was "broken," he replaced it, coincidentally, within the week of his scheduled interview with the investigators (as a matter of fact, the day before or day of the interview). Then, as part of the appeal, he and his people decide to hand over whatever they can from the old phone (which they claim is nothing), even though they had previously declined to offer any information.

 

Meanwhile, Goodell's summary says they have 300 pages of transcripts from the appeal, and from those transcripts, he has Brady personally on the record saying that he always destroys his old phone, even though they had a forensic expert review an even older phone. Brady also offered no explanation during the appeal for why the relevant phone was destroyed -- he didn't tell anyone that it would be destroyed, and during the appeal, he didn't say 'my phone broke, so I got a new one,' nor did he say 'my phone broke, I got a new one, but I kept the old one in the hopes that we could retrieve old information from it, knowing that there's an investigation going on.' 

 

He lied, refused to cooperate, destroyed pertinent information, then once it was destroyed pretended that he would have cooperated if only my phone hadn't broken, awwww man!  He's lying now.

 

And as always, the question remains -- why did the Patriots suspend Jastremski and McNally if no one did anything wrong? If it's unfair for Tom Brady to be suspended by the league, how unfair is it that they -- the Patriots -- basically fired two lower level employees for what they claim is no reason at all?

 

The intrinsic dishonesty of Tom Brady, Robert Kraft and the entire defense team associated with this matter makes this about more than just breaking the rules. That's bad enough, but they've dug in, despite more and more evidence coming out against them, and every time new information comes out, it buries them even further.

[House]

What is one of the NFL's greatest claims?

Parity.

NE destroys that.

By waiting a decade before winning a SB after their first dynasty?

[Swan Ronson]

What is one of the NFL's greatest claims?

Parity.

NE destroys that.

Come one now, seven different teams had won the Super Bowl since the Patriots previous win prior to 2015.

[Cynjin]

For those of you thinking that Kraft is against Brady, you just missed his press conference.

Kraft on TV right now:

1. Last time he'll talk.

2. NFL decision "unfathomable."

3. Fully supports TFB.

4. APOLOGIZES TO FANS FOR HIS ACTIONS IN MAY/JUNE. Says that he was wrong. WHOA!!!!!!!!!

5. False reports shaped public decision.

6. NFL DELIBERATELY SLANDERED BY NEFARIOUS "BROKEN CELL PHONE" HEADLINES.

7. People in NFL office are more interested in being right than doing what was fair or just.

8. He regrets what he did in May.

9. Accepted penalty because he thought that it would exonerate Brady.

10. He was wrong to have faith in the league.

Gee, look at this... Kraft throws down the gauntlet.

So those of you claiming that Kraft's lack of support for Brady was telling, what say you now?

He looks even more foolish than he did before. I was hoping he would ask for another mpology from the NFL.

[Gramz]

Translation of what Kraft said.....

He thought by accepting punishment he could buy Brady's freedom.

Didn't happen.

[Jason_]

What is one of the NFL's greatest claims?

Parity.

NE destroys that.

 

1. The league is jealous that NE "destroys the parity in the NFL", so they go on a "witch hunt" to prove that one of their most successful teams over the past decade was so successful because they were able to cheat without getting caught

 

or

 

2. The league wants NE to stop freaking cheating

 

 

Occam's razor, man

[amfootball]

What is one of the NFL's greatest claims?

Parity.

NE destroys that.

I wonder if Kraft pushes things further. He seemed even more * than he did after Wells report came out.

[House]

The greatest aspect of this whole situation is if the Patriots were upfront about all of this from the beginning, none of this would be happening.

A simple "Yes Tom likes to play with balls that are deflated a little less so he can grip them better. We thought we had them within the legal range, and it is regrettable that they came in underinflated according to league standards."

Do that and there's no outrage, no massive penalties, and this would have been an entirely uneventful offseason.

But alas...

[House]

I wonder if Kraft pushes things further. He seemed even more * than he did after Wells report came out.

Naw. He just knows what he did hurts any future court case, so now he has to backpedal and act like he was furious about it the whole time.

The logic that him accepting punishment somehow is suppose to exonerate Tom is pretty hilarious though.

[amfootball]

This is so awesome.

 

NFLPA exec impressed by Kraft

now

 

NFLPA spokesperson George Atallah, after hearing Patriots owner Robert Kraft speak on Tom Brady's case, tweeted: "Speechless. Wow."

[Swan Ronson]

He's easily impressed then. You can see angry old men ranting on the street any day.

[Superman]

The greatest aspect of this whole situation is if the Patriots were upfront about all of this from the beginning, none of this would be happening.

A simple "Yes Tom likes to play with balls that are deflated a little less so he can grip them better. We thought we had them within the legal range, and it is regrettable that they came in underinflated according to league standards."

Do that and there's no outrage, no massive penalties, and this would have been an entirely uneventful offseason.

But alas...

 

I disagree. They didn't submit footballs that weren't inflated properly; that probably happens all the time, based on the interviews with refs that are in the Wells report.

 

They evidently went out of their way to manipulate footballs after they had been signed off on by the refs, going so far as to take them without permission from the officials' locker room and release air from them. That's not 'we thought we had them within the legal range.' That's cheating.

 

Not the worst kind of cheating ever, not a scandalous affair that is likely to have influenced the outcome of a lot of games (possibly, but that's impossible to know). But still deliberately breaking the rules and undermining the officials' ability to do their job, which is ensure a fair and even playing field.

[PeterBowman]

It's hilarious to me.

 

Brady says his people informed the investigators that, under no circumstances, would they be handing over his phone or information on his phone. The phone was "broken," he replaced it, coincidentally, within the week of his scheduled interview with the investigators (as a matter of fact, the day before or day of the interview). Then, as part of the appeal, he and his people decide to hand over whatever they can from the old phone (which they claim is nothing), even though they had previously declined to offer any information.

 

Meanwhile, Goodell's summary says they have 300 pages of transcripts from the appeal, and from those transcripts, he has Brady personally on the record saying that he always destroys his old phone, even though they had a forensic expert review an even older phone. Brady also offered no explanation during the appeal for why the relevant phone was destroyed -- he didn't tell anyone that it would be destroyed, and during the appeal, he didn't say 'my phone broke, so I got a new one,' nor did he say 'my phone broke, I got a new one, but I kept the old one in the hopes that we could retrieve old information from it, knowing that there's an investigation going on.' 

 

He lied, refused to cooperate, destroyed pertinent information, then once it was destroyed pretended that he would have cooperated if only my phone hadn't broken, awwww man!  He's lying now.

 

And as always, the question remains -- why did the Patriots suspend Jastremski and McNally if no one did anything wrong? If it's unfair for Tom Brady to be suspended by the league, how unfair is it that they -- the Patriots -- basically fired two lower level employees for what they claim is no reason at all?

 

The intrinsic dishonesty of Tom Brady, Robert Kraft and the entire defense team associated with this matter makes this about more than just breaking the rules. That's bad enough, but they've dug in, despite more and more evidence coming out against them, and every time new information comes out, it buries them even further.

This is why it's too bad that the penalty can't be increased when these things happen.

[lollygagger8]

My point, which clearly sailed over your head, was that Colt fans claimed that Kraft supporting the NFL's decision in May indicated Brady's guilt.

That argument fails now.

 

Your "arguments" are pure opinions that unequivocally fail miserably at producing anything that remotely resemble truth. 

 

Here's some really real world information for you chief: 

 

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, the NFL was willing to drop the suspension by "at least 50 percent" if Brady: (1) admitted to having knowledge of whatever John Jastremski and Jim McNally were doing to the footballs; (2) admitted to failing to cooperate with the Ted Wells investigation; and (3) apologized.-PFT

@RapSheet: Interesting. @judybattista says the sides were moving close to a 1-game suspension settlement. But Brady wanted records sealed. NFL wouldn’t

Putting these two things together, it seems Brady didn’t want to admit guilt and the public find out.

@BenVolin: Source said the NFLPA declined to call McNally or Jastremski as witnesses at the appeal. Goodell gave them an opportunity to be heard.

On page 12 of Goodell’s ruling, Brady’s attorneys offered a spreadsheet with the numbers Brady had texted from the destroyed phone. The NFL would have to contact each individual and ask for the information. This is what Brady’s attorneys are calling "unprecedented electronic information".

[House]

I disagree. They didn't submit footballs that weren't inflated properly; that probably happens all the time, based on the interviews with refs that are in the Wells report.

They evidently went out of their way to manipulate footballs after they had been signed off on by the refs, going so far as to take them without permission from the officials' locker room and release air from them. That's not 'we thought we had them within the legal range.' That's cheating.

Not the worst kind of cheating ever, not a scandalous affair that is likely to have influenced the outcome of a lot of games (possibly, but that's impossible to know). But still deliberately breaking the rules and undermining the officials' ability to do their job, which is ensure a fair and even playing field.

While all that is true. Had they simply owned up to it, or owned up to it and then started making lame excuses about temperature, or some insane theory like "Our ball boy wasn't aware the refs had already checked the balls" this isn't as big of a story. Heck they could have then taken the opportunity to throw the ball boy under the bus and claimed he was rouge or something.

It's all the extra stuff that followed the accusation that's made this what it is. The BB press conferences. The "Is Tom Brady a cheater?" moments. All the crazy science, Kraft accepting punishment, broken/replaced cell phones, the "Deflator."

All of that has led to this. Instead of being more upfront about what took place. Even a little would have gone a long way.

[lollygagger8]

GoColts, if this was any other team that hadn't dominated the NFL for well over a decade, this wouldn't have been a story at all.

Jealousy. Pure jealousy. As MANY NFL players have said, the allegations didn't help the Patriots win.

 

[BullsColtsFan1]

Patriots Fans be like, prove we cheated

[Superman]

While all that is true. Had they simply owned up to it, or owned up to it and then started making lame excuses about temperature, or some insane theory like "Our ball boy wasn't aware the refs had already checked the balls" this isn't as big of a story. Heck they could have then taken the opportunity to throw the ball boy under the bus and claimed he was rouge or something.

It's all the extra stuff that followed the accusation that's made this what it is. The BB press conferences. The "Is Tom Brady a cheater?" moments. All the crazy science, Kraft accepting punishment, broken/replaced cell phones, the "Deflator."

All of that has led to this. Instead of being more upfront about what took place. Even a little would have gone a long way.

 

Saying "the ball boy wasn't aware" isn't being upfront. It's a lie. McNally knows the protocol for footballs on game day. 

 

Maybe they could have just scapegoated McNally in the first place, and then all the rest of this stuff doesn't come out. But that's still different than being upfront, and based on what we've learned through all of this, it would have been dishonest.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I didn't know that about Doty. That must be a recent development.

 

After more searching, the only thing I have on this is a source stating Munson has said that-

 

"Brady has the option of filing his lawsuit in any US state, and the NFLPA has been very successful arguing in Minnesota before federal judge David Doty. However, Munson said that Doty is now on senior status and not hearing cases anymore, and expects Brady to instead file in Massachusetts to get the home-court advantage."

 

Pulled from this Boston Globe article-

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/05/16/tom-brady-will-have-tough-time-beating-roger-goodell-court/A47VHCpdcQryDOZtznSRuM/story.html

 

So, I'm still not sure either way yet.

[amfootball]

Your "arguments" are pure opinions that unequivocally fail miserably at producing anything that remotely resemble truth. 

 

Here's some really real world information for you chief: 

 

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, the NFL was willing to drop the suspension by "at least 50 percent" if Brady: (1) admitted to having knowledge of whatever John Jastremski and Jim McNally were doing to the footballs; (2) admitted to failing to cooperate with the Ted Wells investigation; and (3) apologized.-PFT

@RapSheet: Interesting. @judybattista says the sides were moving close to a 1-game suspension settlement. But Brady wanted records sealed. NFL wouldn’t

Putting these two things together, it seems Brady didn’t want to admit guilt and the public find out.

@BenVolin: Source said the NFLPA declined to call McNally or Jastremski as witnesses at the appeal. Goodell gave them an opportunity to be heard.

On page 12 of Goodell’s ruling, Brady’s attorneys offered a spreadsheet with the numbers Brady had texted from the destroyed phone. The NFL would have to contact each individual and ask for the information. This is what Brady’s attorneys are calling "unprecedented electronic information".

All of that was refuted by the PA who said there was a never a deal for a reduction ...

[lollygagger8]

My point, which clearly sailed over your head, was that Colt fans claimed that Kraft supporting the NFL's decision in May indicated Brady's guilt.

That argument fails now.

 

I'm not certain if you're still in the denial stage or what it is, but why you keep acting like it's just Colts fans that don't believe this pats* sham? 

 

NFL Network poll shows 74% of NFL fans agree with Goodell's decision. 

 

 

[Superman]

After more searching, the only thing I have on this is a source stating Munson has said that-

 

"Brady has the option of filing his lawsuit in any US state, and the NFLPA has been very successful arguing in Minnesota before federal judge David Doty. However, Munson said that Doty is now on senior status and not hearing cases anymore, and expects Brady to instead file in Massachusetts to get the home-court advantage."

 

Pulled from this Boston Globe article-

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/05/16/tom-brady-will-have-tough-time-beating-roger-goodell-court/A47VHCpdcQryDOZtznSRuM/story.html

 

So, I'm still not sure either way yet.

 

I didn't mean to make it seem like if I haven't heard about it that it isn't true. But let me know if you're able to confirm that. It's interesting, and makes me wonder if the NFLPA will continue taking cases to Minnesota if Doty isn't working new cases.

[RockThatBlue]

GoColts, if this was any other team that hadn't dominated the NFL for well over a decade, this wouldn't have been a story at all.

Jealousy. Pure jealousy. As MANY NFL players have said, the allegations didn't help the Patriots win.

It has nothing to do with jealousy, but more to do with the past history of cheating that the patriots have.

[Bubbz]

And these media experts have gotten so much right this whole time, right? LOL. Let's see it play out. At this point, Brady has zero to lose anyways. Go to the wall.

What have they gotten wrong?

[House]

Saying "the ball boy wasn't aware" isn't being upfront. It's a lie. McNally knows the protocol for footballs on game day.

Maybe they could have just scapegoated McNally in the first place, and then all the rest of this stuff doesn't come out. But that's still different than being upfront, and based on what we've learned through all of this, it would have been dishonest.

I was referring to being upfront about the ball tampering taking place. The fighting of that has spiraled to all of this. I think the league and media at large would have swallowed the pill that they didn't mean for the balls to come in under weight, and it was accidental. More so than the back pedaling and lying.

Obviously Sups the truth from the beginning would be nice, but that's not the world we live in. It's either admit the truth and lie a little, "I don't know how those steroids got there but I accept responsibility" or outright lies.

[weslo1812]

And these media experts have gotten so much right this whole time, right? LOL. Let's see it play out. At this point, Brady has zero to lose anyways. Go to the wall.

Except his reputation is SHOT BIG TIME!!!! Whether anything changes in this court case or not, the large public opinion is Brady is GUILTY!!! Except for all the blindly fooled Boston fans and media who have all bought into the schemes and lies and cover up. Trying to hang on any last thing they can to say he's innocent. His reputation is basically gone already at this point. Nothing is gonna change that in this court case either. It's sooo funny you'd believe his statement now saying his old phone broke. Yet previous to that he had said himself that he always Destroyed his old phones. Before that he wouldn't even give up the phone. And when Wells and the investigation team had initially asked for his phone or a printout of the texts... he never told them that his phone was destroyed or that he "broke" it. That didn't come out till way later all the sudden. The story has constantly been Changing from Brady side... that's not the sign of a man telling the truth at all!!! Liars like to skip around and change their stories constantly to try and get over. That's all he's trying to do is get over.

And also, it's not just 1 or two media or law experts saying he has little to no case in court. It's numerous ones. So if you got a majority of experts saying he likeley has no case... there's probably a good chance he doesn't. He's pretty much done. Dug himself a hole waaaay to big now. All it would have taken was a little honesty and integrity at the beginning and this all could be over with by now.

[RockThatBlue]

Tom Brady should become a politician when he retires.

He got caught red handed and still says he did nothing wrong lol. That's politician speak if I've ever seen it before.

[Superman]

Kraft says: "I tried to do what I thought was right."

 

Evidently that includes firing two guys who have been employed by the team for many years for absolutely no reason at all.

[Gramz]

In the words of Bill Polian this morning......

Circumstantial evidence is all that is needed. There is an abundance of circumstantial evidence.

[Superman]

All of that was refuted by the PA who said there was a never a deal for a reduction ...

 

Brady said in his statement that they were trying to work on a settlement.

[csmopar]

Colt balls were under 12.5.

Looks like Colts are cheaterzzzzz too!

 

 

Um....yeah no.  Have yet to see anywhere that states the Colt's balls were under the 12.5......and I've read both reports in full......

[csmopar]

Brady said in his statement that they were trying to work on a settlement.

 

Oh wait....you mean someone's lying again? Surprise, surprise

[Surge89]

Brady said in his statement that they were trying to work on a settlement.

 

 

When I see Pats fans excuses and deflection... This is what I see lol

[ColtsBlueFL]

If any of those scenarios were a real possibility, I don't believe Brady goes to court. But we will see. Much is about to come out on the league too and IMO that is a bigger issue as again most believe Brady did it and in the end he may serve the 4 games. But the process of the league will also be exposed as well as the appeal hearing which is what I am most interested in learning about as that is the basis that Roger used to uphold the suspension and if he did ignore info Brady provided in terms of the electronic comms and did not let the PA interview key witnesses than I can't see how any judge would see the process to punish as being fair under the terms of the CBA.

 

NFLPA better have an extremely strong case that NFL was totally out of kilter.  This is how the Supreme court of the United States feels about judges overturning an Arbitration case ruling-

 

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled 5 - 3 Thursday (June 2013) that courts can't overturn a class arbitration waiver simply becauseit would cost plaintiffs more to arbitrate the claim than they could possibly recover. Here, attorneys tell Law360 why this ruling is significant.Alden Atkins, Vinson & Elkins LLP "The Supreme Court is sending a strong message that courts should not interfere with arbitration agreements and arbitration decisions. The court held in [AT&T Mobility LLCv. Concepcion] and again today in [American Express Co. v. Italian Colors Restaurant] that parties can define for themselves the procedures for an arbitration, and those agreements should be upheld in the face of arguments challenging the fairness of neutral provisions. When combined with the recent [Oxford Health Plans LLC v. Sutter] decision, which upheld an arbitrator's questionable decision, the Supreme Court is telling lower courts not to interfere with the arbitration process."

 

This is a major reason I believe Goodell / NFL will ultimately prevail in their appeal over Judge Doty's decision overturning of Adrian Peterson's punishment by the league.

 

Harold Henderson  was appointed arbiter, and the CBA totally allows for Goodell to do that.