DeflateGate: Brady suspension expected (mega merge / updated)

[Fx Stryker]

Would like to hear Brady's statement rather than from his agent, his owner, his dad, and his zero IQ tight end.

 

To be fair, Gronk was chased down paparazzi style by local news. I'm glad he didn't say anything to them.

[bababooey]

Please people........"More likely than not" is not a vague term that constitutes an unsure position. That is the leagues language that the legal investigation used. What was sought was whether or not he was "more likely than not". He was found that so in the leagues eyes...he is guilty of violating league rules.

I wanted to include that "More likely than not" in legal speak is very similar to "reasonable assurance" provided in an audit opinion. It would not be cost effective or sometimes it could be impossible to obtain 100% of the evidence so you have to rely on alternative procedures to help bridge gaps. Based on the scope of the investigation and evidence obtained, "more likely than not" and "probably" can be relied on in a legal sense just like a clean audit opinion providing reasonable assurance as to the financials of a fortune 500 company can be relied upon as well.

[bababooey]

To be fair, Gronk was chased down paparazzi style by local news. I'm glad he didn't say anything to them.

I was referring to the video he posted of himself flexing where he yelled you can DEFLATE DEEZ NUTS

[dynasty13]

The r

 

Actually, no I wouldn't. Matter Of fact, I would also be saying someone needs suspended.

 

But this isn't just about letting a little air out, it's also about buying people off to cover it up. Thats what I take issue with the most.

 

That's not what the report said. Nowhere does it say anything about buying people off to cover anything up. Again, I want to reiterate that I'm not defending anything, just trying to clear up some of the assumptions that some are making to form their opinion. 

 

If Brady was unhappy about the balls being overinflated during the Jets game (the report had a text saying the refs screwed us they were inflated up to 16), I could definitely see him telling the guy to make sure they arent inflated that much ever again. What if Brady's involvement ended there? Would that change anyones mind about his involvement? Because the report does not go on to reference anything else that Brady did. It certainly assumes, but that leaves alternatives on the table and thats what many Patriots fans are finding to be troubling. 

 

The terminology used...'probably', 'more likely than not'....apparently is enough for the NFL to find fault and punish. I get that part. If there is a 50.1% assumption, that is enough. But it IS possible that the assumption is incorrect. Is it probable? Maybe not, but as long as that possibility exists, many Patriots fans will cling to it and thats the issue many have with how the report was presented. 

 

It's one big assumption, but that in no way 100% discounts another possibility.

[csmopar]

The NFL Front office has a credibility issue they need to put to rest even more so IMO then the Patriots who like kids will push the envelope .

I will agree there.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Did you all hear about Tom's wife Geisle?  

 

Apparently she tried to leave Tom last night, but she went to the car and found all the tires were deflated.  

 

 

haha

[Swan Ronson]

It's also well past time the suffix gate was retired.

[csmopar]

The r

 

 

That's not what the report said. Nowhere does it say anything about buying people off to cover anything up. Again, I want to reiterate that I'm not defending anything, just trying to clear up some of the assumptions that some are making to form their opinion. 

 

If Brady was unhappy about the balls being overinflated during the Jets game (the report had a text saying the refs screwed us they were inflated up to 16), I could definitely see him telling the guy to make sure they arent inflated that much ever again. What if Brady's involvement ended there? Would that change anyones mind about his involvement? Because the report does not go on to reference anything else that Brady did. It certainly assumes, but that leaves alternatives on the table and thats what many Patriots fans are finding to be troubling. 

 

The terminology used...'probably', 'more likely than not'....apparently is enough for the NFL to find fault and punish. I get that part. If there is a 50.1% assumption, that is enough. But it IS possible that the assumption is incorrect. Is it probable? Maybe not, but as long as that possibility exists, many Patriots fans will cling to it and thats the issue many have with how the report was presented. 

 

It's one big assumption, but that in no way 100% discounts another possibility.

Um...have you read the report?!  I am as we speak, I'm on page 178...  theres several references to where McNally asked for and received gifts and cash from Brady through the other dude......

[braveheartcolt]

I would give Brady a 4 game suspension, doubled to 8 if he is ever caught wearing Uggs again.

[NagelHausForge]

I am very interested actually in Tom's response ...

 

As a trained interviewer/ Interrogator I can't wait to watch his response, if he even gives one live.  He may just release a statement, like his agent did. 

 

I can tell you, after watching his pressers where he was asked about the issue he does show classic telltale signs of deceptive behavior.  Just watch his answers to questions related to normal football issues and game prep and then compare his behavior and answers against the questions having to do with deflategate... This is a fun game you can play with politicians as well... Obama is the worst at it when he is asked a question about something he is attempting to spin. 

[Gramz]

I would give Brady a 4 game suspension, doubled to 8 if he is ever caught wearing Uggs again.

  outta likes.  

[dynasty13]

Um...have you read the report?!  I am as we speak, I'm on page 178...  theres several references to where McNally asked for and received gifts and cash from Brady through the other dude......

 

And nowhere does it say 'in exchange for his silence'.

 

From what I understand, it is common practice to provide memorabilia and monetary gifts as a way to take care of the equipment guys. Nowhere in the report does it say that these exchanges were any sort of a bribe. That's one of the 'leaps' that many Patriots fans are questioning. There are a lot of assumptions in this report...and unfortunately assumptions leave room to question.

[PeterBowman]

I would give Brady a 4 game suspension, doubled to 8 if he is ever caught wearing Uggs again.

actually since I believe he was sponsored by Uggs, it should be a lifetime ban

[braveheartcolt]

outta likes.

Believe it or not, I was thinking of you as I typed!!

[bababooey]

And nowhere does it say 'in exchange for his silence'.

 

From what I understand, it is common practice to provide memorabilia and monetary gifts as a way to take care of the equipment guys. Nowhere in the report does it say that these exchanges were any sort of a bribe. That's one of the 'leaps' that many Patriots fans are questioning. There are a lot of assumptions in this report...and unfortunately assumptions leave room to question.

You can infer that "I'm not going to espn.......yet" is code for he better keep giving me swag or else I'm gonna rat him out. YES it is customary to tip attendants, ball boys, etc. But you can't say after reading those texts that this was the same as Papi's ball boy getting a tip of some money and some signed balls at the end of the season.

[Happy2BeHere]

The r

 

 

That's not what the report said. Nowhere does it say anything about buying people off to cover anything up. Again, I want to reiterate that I'm not defending anything, just trying to clear up some of the assumptions that some are making to form their opinion. 

 

If Brady was unhappy about the balls being overinflated during the Jets game (the report had a text saying the refs screwed us they were inflated up to 16), I could definitely see him telling the guy to make sure they arent inflated that much ever again. What if Brady's involvement ended there? Would that change anyones mind about his involvement? Because the report does not go on to reference anything else that Brady did. It certainly assumes, but that leaves alternatives on the table and thats what many Patriots fans are finding to be troubling. 

 

The terminology used...'probably', 'more likely than not'....apparently is enough for the NFL to find fault and punish. I get that part. If there is a 50.1% assumption, that is enough. But it IS possible that the assumption is incorrect. Is it probable? Maybe not, but as long as that possibility exists, many Patriots fans will cling to it and thats the issue many have with how the report was presented. 

 

It's one big assumption, but that in no way 100% discounts another possibility.

 

Doesn't the fact that he absolutely refused handing his cell phone over indicate any form of guilt to you? I mean...sure he might have had naked videos and pictures of his wife on there (a "sex tape" if you will) but don't you think it would have been in his best interest to do so?

 

Here's the way I see it as related to marriage...I don't do anything behind my spouse's back that I would not do in front of them period...that to me is CHEATING!..... in other words...the way I see it here Brady sort of has something to hide if he wasn't willing to cooperate there...I just see it that way.

 

I can definitely concur on your point that "if the possibility exists" one way or another for whatever side you want to take you're probably predisposed to believe what you want to believe because there is no "absolute" evidence to say otherwise regardless of how strong the case is. (and I'm not saying YOU per say...I'm saying "people in general" just to clarify)

[Gramz]

Did some reading last night... I was 100% wrong! 

 

The texts and other evidence Wells compiled was far more compelling than I had anticipated, mainly because of the summary judgment, Kraft's response, and other factors we've heard over the past 100+ days. If anything, "more probable than not" was an understatement. I would have pegged it as "highly probable." 

 

So, mea culpa. Objectively speaking, Brady has to be suspended at least for the opener. I would not even protest to something in the range of 4 games. Beyond that, might be a bit excessive... the $25K team fine that's the "on the books" guideline for punishment for improper footballs has to be considered (as it's pretty mild, relatively speaking), but Brady's real mistake here was not owning it. The league will likely come down on him for that more than the actual footballs.

 

It sucks for us Pats fans, but it is what it is. To ignore things like one of the guys referring to himself as "the deflator" would be asinine. I'm a lot of things but unreasonable usually isn't one of them. (Though the missus may disagree there...)

 

The crazy part, which is almost exactly like Spygate, is the "why?" He clearly didn't need an advantage, however minor anyone may think it is, against you guys. He played lights-out against an extremely good defense in the Super Bowl with the cleanest footballs in the history of the sport. A softer ball gives you slightly better grip, resulting in improved accuracy for some throwers, but it takes velocity off the ball. With the give-and-take nature of it, and the possible consequences, and the team's history/reputation fallout from Spygate, it was very foolish of Brady to push the envelope. 

 

There are still some holes in the story for me, but I don't think they would change the end result. It's my hope that the Patriots or Brady will come out with something here to try to get final closure on it. The best cure, of course, will be to go out next year and tear it up, and to try to show the world that "yeah, we pushed the rules for an advantage, but we're still the Patriots and we're still going to beat you up." Maybe in the end, this serves as motivation for them to go out there and try to destroy every team in their way. We'll see, I guess. 

 

One of the hardest things to do at times is to admit when you're wrong. I'm doing it here, and Brady should too. 

I am out of likes,  but wanted to say thank you for post.  I think it's one of the best posts on this Mega Thread.

 

It's a Hot Topic right now, and no matter what the final outcome, no matter what the punishment handed down is,  the heated discussion will continue.   No Doubt,  whatever it is,  it will not be enough in some folks opinion, and Way tooooo much in others.

[bababooey]

Doesn't the fact that he absolutely refused handing his cell phone over indicate any form of guilt to you? I mean...sure he might have had naked videos and pictures of his wife on there (a "sex tape" if you will) but don't you think it would have been in his best interest to do so?

 

Here's the way I see it as related to marriage...I don't do anything behind my spouse's back that I would not do in front of them period...that to me is CHEATING!..... in other words...the way I see it here Brady sort of has something to hide if he wasn't willing to cooperate there...I just see it that way.

 

I can definitely concur on your point that "if the possibility exists" one way or another for whatever side you want to take you're probably predisposed to believe what you want to believe because there is no "absolute" evidence to say otherwise regardless of how strong the case is. (and I'm not saying YOU per say...I'm saying "people in general" just to clarify)

He was told that his phone could be screened by his people to make sure only relevant evidence made it to Wells. He probably has nudies of his wife or his side piece but Wells wouldn't care/do anything about it. He could be short of an ISIS sleeper agent and it's not in Wells' scope to disclose this (OK that's a stretch, but if we had another Tiger Woods scandal on us Wells would not include this.)

 

If Brady doesn't want to provide his phone which has shown between the other two bozos to be pretty incriminating evidence but then also has everyone in his entourage saying he's innocent and getting screwed by lack of evidence is a joke. He can't have his cake and eat it too. Show us what's on the phone or don't complain.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

And nowhere does it say 'in exchange for his silence'.

 

From what I understand, it is common practice to provide memorabilia and monetary gifts as a way to take care of the equipment guys. Nowhere in the report does it say that these exchanges were any sort of a bribe. That's one of the 'leaps' that many Patriots fans are questioning. There are a lot of assumptions in this report...

 

“More probable than not” equates to a “preponderance of the evidence,” the standard that applies in most civil lawsuits. It means that the evidence makes it more likely than not, in the opinion of the investigator, that “New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate effort to circumvent the rules,” and that “Tom Brady . . . was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities.”

That’s a standard perhaps even higher than the one that applies to players accused of violating the Personal Conduct Policy, where “credible corroborating evidence” (even without cooperation from the alleged victim) can result in a significant suspension. Regardless, it’s enough proof on which the NFL can base punishment of a team.

“Too often, competitive violations have gone unpunished because conclusive proof of the violation was lacking,” Commissioner Roger Goodell wrote to the NFL’s Competition Committee in 2008, after the last game-integrity infraction involving the Patriots.  “I believe we should reconsider the standard of proof to be applied in such cases, and make it easier for a competitive violation to be established.”

Although there was nothing easy about the Wells investigation, his decision that a preponderance of the evidence points to a deliberate effort to circumvent the rules gives Goodell the green light to impose discipline.

Still, the use of the term “more probable than not” takes some of the sting out of the finding by allowing non-lawyers to believe that, as Patriots owner Robert Kraft has always said, there was no hard evidence of cheating. When it comes to issues of this nature, hard evidence isn’t needed to justify a stringent punishment.

 

Assumptions the bar has been met . Probable on a injury report is 75% chance that player will play

[dynasty13]

You can infer that "I'm not going to espn.......yet" is code for he better keep giving me swag or else I'm gonna rat him out.

 

Very true.

 

But just to play devil's advocate here....like I said before, what if after the Jets game when he was given balls inflated to 16 PSI he said to them after, "you better make sure these are never inflated that high again"....that still might be enough to make the claim that he asked them to alter the footballs, but if it ended there and that was the last thing he said about it (the report said they hadnt talked in a few months) then it really doesnt sound as crippling as the assumed sentiment that he was regularly involved in and privy to the fact that they were intentionally deflating balls illegally.

 

Just something to wonder since the report made it possible to question ;)

[csmopar]

And nowhere does it say 'in exchange for his silence'.

 

From what I understand, it is common practice to provide memorabilia and monetary gifts as a way to take care of the equipment guys. Nowhere in the report does it say that these exchanges were any sort of a bribe. That's one of the 'leaps' that many Patriots fans are questioning. There are a lot of assumptions in this report...and unfortunately assumptions leave room to question.

 

 

have you seen the texts.....I mean seriously, come on.

[bavanlan]

The long-awaited Ted Wells report is in, and we have had plenty of time to read the details of the investigation. A lot of people are debating the wording of "More probable then not", but those are the NFL's words, not Ted's. According to the NFL rules, if the violation is "More probable then not", then sanctions will be issued.

So essentially, the report says that Tom Brady, Jim McNally, and John Jastremski should be subject to NFL punishment. Troy Vincent, as reported, will "hand down" any and all punishment, Roger Goodell will not be directly involved.

So after I read the entire report (skipped the scientific study at the end), here's my best guess:

McNally and Jastremski: Both will be gone, never to work for an NFL team again, probably banned from even attending the games. Will likely be hit by fines, but on a smaller scale. It will be easy to "banish" these guys, considering the fans don't pay to see the equipment managers.

Robert Kraft/Patriots Organization: The report suggests that the Patriots organization withheld McNally from a follow-up interview, and this was a violation of the league's investigation rules. They were not "fully cooperating" with the investigation, and even withheld the identity of "Jastremski's Friend." This is probably good enough for a $100,000 fine, paid by Robert Kraft. I don't believe a draft pick should be forfeited, and Kraft should not be suspended.

Bill Belichick: There's no evidence that ties Belichick to this, he will probably not get fined, or suspended.

Tom Brady: This is the hardest one to pinpoint, because at this point, 'deflating footballs' is not his only violation. On my count we got:

o Conspiracy to circumvent the rules, along with McNally and Jastremski.

o Withheld cell phone records from investigators, not "fully cooperating" with their efforts.

o Lied to Head Coach Bill Belichick, denying any involvement.

o Lied to the press, in his press conferences regarding the controversy in the days leading up to the Superbowl.

o Lied to the investigators, claiming that he did not know McNally before the AFCCG, while Jastremski's account directly contradicts Brady's claims. Several of Tom's claims made to the investigators directly contradicted what he said during the press conferences.

o By repeatedly denying involvement, he forced the NFL to bring in an independent investigating team. That investigation took over three months, cost the NFL several thousands (or millions) of dollars. The whole time the investigation went on, speculation and the image of a "cheating champion" stained a league that has hit an all-time low from a PR perspective. This would certainly qualify as "conduct detrimental to the league", which got Greg Hardy a 10-game ban.

So this is what I would propose.

$100,000 fine, paid by Tom Brady ("Conspiring" and insisting on using deflated, non-approved footballs)

Unpaid Suspension, 6 Games (For violating the "integrity of the game" in regards to Rule 2, Section 1)

Consecutive Unpaid Suspension, 10 Games (For "conduct detrimental to the league", his deceit led to a costly and time-consuming investigation that makes the league look awful. The fact that your World Champion is a "cheater" is something some fans can't get past, and suggests to young fans that "cheaters" will, in fact, prosper.)

Out for an entire season, eligible for return in 2016 season would send the message. And you factor in that he lied to Belichick, and by proxy, lied to Robert Kraft...it's possible we have seen the last of Tom Brady as a New England Patriot.

What do you think? Would these sanctions be appropriate? Too light, too heavy?

You're probably going to be severely disappointed.

[bababooey]

Very true.

 

But just to play devil's advocate here....like I said before, what if after the Jets game when he was given balls inflated to 16 PSI he said to them after, "you better make sure these are never inflated that high again"....that still might be enough to make the claim that he asked them to alter the footballs, but if it ended there and that was the last thing he said about it (the report said they hadnt talked in a few months) then it really doesnt sound as crippling as the assumed sentiment that he was regularly involved in and privy to the fact that they were intentionally deflating balls illegally.

 

Just something to wonder since the report made it possible to question ;)

The problem is the rest of the text messages and the nickname THE DEFLATOR.

 

Watermelon's, Rugby Balls, Balloons, only thing deflating is his passer rating, You got the needle? I need some size 11 or 11.5. The fact Brady said he didn't know McNally but he did. The fact the balls go missing and one of these guys takes it to the bathroom and says he used the urinal in a bathroom that doesn't have one, the fact Brady never talks to the guy yet he does quite a few times when the story breaks.

 

Totality of evidence. Men have gone to prison for life based on circumstantial evidence.

[GoPats]

I am out of likes,  but wanted to say thank you for post.  I think it's one of the best posts on this Mega Thread.

 

It's a Hot Topic right now, and no matter what the final outcome, no matter what the punishment handed down is,  the heated discussion will continue.   No Doubt,  whatever it is,  it will not be enough in some folks opinion, and Way tooooo much in others.

 

Thanks Gramz. Virtual hugs. 

 

Three things really did it for me:

 

1) Self-reference as "the deflator"

2) Mentions of needles, especially the one where he said "make sure the pump is attached"

3) Brady's refusal to submit his cell and any electronic records

 

We're people first, then fans, or at least that's how it's supposed to be. Intellectually I can't ignore the facts; emotionally, of course, I don't want this outcome. But there's a point where you have to let all things go. 

 

You're dead on, whatever happens punishment-wise won't satisfy everyone... I've heard extreme opinions such as suspending Brady for the entire year. I still think 2-4 games would be a reasonable range assuming no further information comes to light. 

[Lawrence Owen]

Very true.

 

But just to play devil's advocate here....like I said before, what if after the Jets game when he was given balls inflated to 16 PSI he said to them after, "you better make sure these are never inflated that high again"....that still might be enough to make the claim that he asked them to alter the footballs, but if it ended there and that was the last thing he said about it (the report said they hadnt talked in a few months) then it really doesnt sound as crippling as the assumed sentiment that he was regularly involved in and privy to the fact that they were intentionally deflating balls illegally.

 

Just something to wonder since the report made it possible to question ;)

Any literature can be dissected 1,000 times to have 100's of meanings and interpretations.  But looking at it at face value, A person makes a judgement.  First impressions are almost always right.  If as you read your gut falls, you know what you are reading.  Then afterwards your brain takes over and begins to make excuses to defend what has just been taken in.  

[Fx Stryker]

[csmopar]

Thanks Gramz. Virtual hugs. 

 

Three things really did it for me:

 

1) Self-reference as "the deflator"

2) Mentions of needles, especially the one where he said "make sure the pump is attached"

3) Brady's refusal to submit his cell and any electronic records

 

We're people first, then fans, or at least that's how it's supposed to be. Intellectually I can't ignore the facts; emotionally, of course, I don't want this outcome. But there's a point where you have to let all things go. 

 

You're dead on, whatever happens punishment-wise won't satisfy everyone... I've heard extreme opinions such as suspending Brady for the entire year. I still think 2-4 games would be a reasonable range assuming no further information comes to light. 

 

 

To be honest, as a Colts fan, I kind of hoped they would find no wrong doing but they did. 

 

And I'd be happy with 4 games.

[dynasty13]

The problem is the rest of the text messages and the nickname THE DEFLATOR.

 

Watermelon's, Rugby Balls, Balloons, only thing deflating is his passer rating, You got the needle? I need some size 11 or 11.5. The fact Brady said he didn't know McNally but he did. The fact the balls go missing and one of these guys takes it to the bathroom and says he used the urinal in a bathroom that doesn't have one, the fact Brady never talks to the guy yet he does quite a few times when the story breaks.

 

Totality of evidence. Men have gone to prison for life based on circumstantial evidence.

 

I took the size 11 or 11.5 comment as a shoe size...they were talking about new 'kicks'...not the PSI of the balls.

 

The nickname does a lot to implicate, that's true...but the possibility still exists that it was the two workers shooting the spit back and forth and calling each other the deflator. They seem not to like Brady...as many employees don't towards their demanding boss and in turn complain to each other.

 

But let me ask you this...is it out of the realm of possibility to think that after the 16 PSI Jets game, Brady was upset and yelled at the guys to make sure the balls are never that blown up again, after which he never talked to them about it again. But as a result...the guys started letting air out so that they wouldn't get yelled at again?

 

All I'm saying is that its a possibility, and if that's how it went down, it doesn't show Brady really being as hes been portrayed.

 

Again, I'm not saying I believe this, I'm just showing how its easy to come to different conclusions when the goal is to present a different narrative.

[GoPats]

 

If Brady was unhappy about the balls being overinflated during the Jets game (the report had a text saying the refs screwed us they were inflated up to 16), I could definitely see him telling the guy to make sure they arent inflated that much ever again. What if Brady's involvement ended there? Would that change anyones mind about his involvement? Because the report does not go on to reference anything else that Brady did. It certainly assumes, but that leaves alternatives on the table and thats what many Patriots fans are finding to be troubling. 

 

 

I've gone over that scenario in my head too. The problem with it is that there were texts from May 2014 with the guy referring to himself as "the deflator," months before that Jets game. 

 

This is, IMO, more likely:

 

It sounds like different referees had slightly different methods for dealing with the pre-game check. The Patriots would fill footballs to 12.5 initially (I do believe that's true) and submit them to be measured. In some cases (like the Jets game), if the balls were even a bit under or borderline (possibly because of the variance in gauges, which was pretty well detailed in the report when it covered the procedures that occurred at halftime), the ref would pump some air into them pre-game. 

 

So maybe Brady's edict was something like, "Listen... bring the balls down the way we like 'em. If they pass great. If the refs add air, try to take it back out." 

 

In October against the Jets, it sounds like the refs OVER-inflated the balls, and McNally didn't have an opportunity to un-do it. Maybe that had something to do with a different routine (for a Thursday night game, I mean). 

 

But my bet is that this goes back further than that, mainly because of those texts from around this time last year. 

[Surge89]

Did some reading last night... I was 100% wrong! 

 

The texts and other evidence Wells compiled was far more compelling than I had anticipated, mainly because of the summary judgment, Kraft's response, and other factors we've heard over the past 100+ days. If anything, "more probable than not" was an understatement. I would have pegged it as "highly probable." 

 

So, mea culpa. Objectively speaking, Brady has to be suspended at least for the opener. I would not even protest to something in the range of 4 games. Beyond that, might be a bit excessive... the $25K team fine that's the "on the books" guideline for punishment for improper footballs has to be considered (as it's pretty mild, relatively speaking), but Brady's real mistake here was not owning it. The league will likely come down on him for that more than the actual footballs.

 

It sucks for us Pats fans, but it is what it is. To ignore things like one of the guys referring to himself as "the deflator" would be asinine. I'm a lot of things but unreasonable usually isn't one of them. (Though the missus may disagree there...)

 

The crazy part, which is almost exactly like Spygate, is the "why?" He clearly didn't need an advantage, however minor anyone may think it is, against you guys. He played lights-out against an extremely good defense in the Super Bowl with the cleanest footballs in the history of the sport. A softer ball gives you slightly better grip, resulting in improved accuracy for some throwers, but it takes velocity off the ball. With the give-and-take nature of it, and the possible consequences, and the team's history/reputation fallout from Spygate, it was very foolish of Brady to push the envelope. 

 

There are still some holes in the story for me, but I don't think they would change the end result. It's my hope that the Patriots or Brady will come out with something here to try to get final closure on it. The best cure, of course, will be to go out next year and tear it up, and to try to show the world that "yeah, we pushed the rules for an advantage, but we're still the Patriots and we're still going to beat you up." Maybe in the end, this serves as motivation for them to go out there and try to destroy every team in their way. We'll see, I guess. 

 

One of the hardest things to do at times is to admit when you're wrong. I'm doing it here, and Brady should too. 

 

You're a good guy.  Apologies again for earlier in the thread for taking you literal.  

[Surge89]

If you want to shoot down everyone that does fit your narrative, go right ahead.

 

No, I think there was wrong doing but it is hard to pin point anything based on the report itself. The balls were not gauged before the game so we have no way of knowing what their psi was. The Colts balls also were below limit too - 4 of them. The science part was not discounted but deemed inconclusive while Wells admitted that it was hard to be certain about science given NFL footballs have never been gauged before at half time. Then you have the text messages which were clearly about the NY game when the balls were inflated to 16 psi which is also illegal and no one has mentioned so just how well is this rule about ball pressure even followed by the refs?  My point is I think this report is unbelievably inconclusive and based largely on conjecture and assumption and written in a way to justify the investigation.

 

Lol this is one of the funniest parts to me.  They listed the pressures.  The Colts had LOWEST of 12.15.  Right around .35 lower than the legal.  And the Patriots had one in the 10 and change range... LOL 

 

Science can't somehow explain that somehow all of the variables in the same conditions have more than what is that like 160% differential in pressure? lol...  That is a grasp at straws to say the least.

[GoPats]

You're a good guy.  Apologies again for earlier in the thread for taking you literal.  

 

I was gonna go back and find your post to make that right... been a busy morning, LOL!

 

My apologies as well. It would have been wiser to read up before I commented, but you also want to make sure that you aren't giving the appearance of ducking out during a crisis, if you know what I mean. 

 

Thanks man. 

[Superman]

And nowhere does it say 'in exchange for his silence'.

 

From what I understand, it is common practice to provide memorabilia and monetary gifts as a way to take care of the equipment guys. Nowhere in the report does it say that these exchanges were any sort of a bribe. That's one of the 'leaps' that many Patriots fans are questioning. There are a lot of assumptions in this report...and unfortunately assumptions leave room to question.

 

I don't think assumption is the right word. You add up all the facts, and it paints a picture. It's not that hard to fill in the small gaps that might still be present.

 

As for the gift giving, I don't know if Brady was "buying them off." I think the texts about 'I better get some shoes' and 'tell Tom I want court side' are probably tongue in cheek. But there is video of Brady giving memorabilia to one of these two guys after the Ravens game. The report makes it pretty obvious that they tampered with the footballs after they were checked by the refs in the AFCCG, and video evidence shows that Brady was giving them things. That's not a good look.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

As a trained interviewer/ Interrogator I can't wait to watch his response, if he even gives one live.  He may just release a statement, like his agent did. 

 

I can tell you, after watching his pressers where he was asked about the issue he does show classic telltale signs of deceptive behavior.  Just watch his answers to questions related to normal football issues and game prep and then compare his behavior and answers against the questions having to do with deflategate... This is a fun game you can play with politicians as well... Obama is the worst at it when he is asked a question about something he is attempting to spin. 

Dang!!!  For the first time ever I'm out of likes  5 stars for this one :-)

[Superman]

I've gone over that scenario in my head too. The problem with it is that there were texts from May 2014 with the guy referring to himself as "the deflator," months before that Jets game. 

 

This is, IMO, more likely:

 

It sounds like different referees had slightly different methods for dealing with the pre-game check. The Patriots would fill footballs to 12.5 initially (I do believe that's true) and submit them to be measured. In some cases (like the Jets game), if the balls were even a bit under or borderline (possibly because of the variance in gauges, which was pretty well detailed in the report when it covered the procedures that occurred at halftime), the ref would pump some air into them pre-game. 

 

So maybe Brady's edict was something like, "Listen... bring the balls down the way we like 'em. If they pass great. If the refs add air, try to take it back out." 

 

In October against the Jets, it sounds like the refs OVER-inflated the balls, and McNally didn't have an opportunity to un-do it. Maybe that had something to do with a different routine (for a Thursday night game, I mean). 

 

But my bet is that this goes back further than that, mainly because of those texts from around this time last year. 

 

Yup.

 

And I'll also point out, just because, that there's a difference between prepping footballs for use -- which every QB does -- and purposely tampering with the balls after they've been checked by the officials. Even if the balls weren't out of compliance when they were checked, the one guy ducking into the bathroom with the footballs and messing with them is a violation of game day protocol, at the very least.

[dynasty13]

Any literature can be dissected 1,000 times to have 100's of meanings and interpretations.  But looking at it at face value, A person makes a judgement.  First impressions are almost always right.  If as you read your gut falls, you know what you are reading.  Then afterwards your brain takes over and begins to make excuses to defend what has just been taken in.  

 

But IF there is a certain conclusion that they hope to reach, then a report can be presented in a certain way to help guide those initial judgements. Many have been talking about how the terminology used is common legal practice and what not....well it is also common practice for them to frame arguments and use terminology as a way to reach a desired conclusion. Evidence that doesn't support that narrative is often buried in a report and not emphasized as much as assumptions that support that conclusion. 

 

People have their thoughts, but as long as the possibility exists for a different conclusion, it's fair to question. That is the frustrating part about the terminology used. I understand why they did and I understand that it is enough for the NFL...but it guides the perception one direction while reality could possibly exist somewhere in the other.

[Lawrence Owen]

This is to ALL the Pats fans on here:

 

What has happened is a tragedy to the NFL and fans alike.  If you were one of the many who had posted your disappointment and shame in this debacle, I feel for you, as a fan and appreciate your open honesty and sportsmanship. 

 

If you are defending the findings and making excuses, your sportsmanship needs to be self-evaluated. These finding were not about the Pats fans, They are about cheaters, and lying found in a team your root for.  Brady is one of the most beloved/Hated players in the NFL. (depending on which side of the fence your are)  Every team has issues with media, Rules misconduct, and legal problem with players at times.  We all take what is found and go with it. Accept what is, and then move on.

[csmopar]

This is Pats fans at this point....reaching for Tom Brady innocence...


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqz8fPmmuw8

 

 

 

 

 

 

can't get the video to embed right...crap

[GoPats]

Yup.

 

And I'll also point out, just because, that there's a difference between prepping footballs for use -- which every QB does -- and purposely tampering with the balls after they've been checked by the officials. Even if the balls weren't out of compliance when they were checked, the one guy ducking into the bathroom with the footballs and messing with them is a violation of game day protocol, at the very least.

 

True, and clearly the league is going to tighten up those protocols. Once the footballs are submitted that should be it. They already have someone watching/minding the K-balls, so just hire another guy to do the same with the game balls. 

[ColtRider]

Out of all of this mess, I want one thing from the NFL. Protect the integrity of the game! Whatever that takes. DO IT!