If you hate the Dorsett pick, you might not understand chess.

[Archangel]

I really am not sold, that when we picked, any of the remaining defensive players were definite difference makers.

 

You are right at least for a first round pick I did not see anyone who can come in on defense and make a difference from day 1, I believe the colts will get a good 2nd round and 3rd round pick 

[Archangel]

Just how is Luck going to get them the ball if Malcolm Brown, Hightower, Collins, Ninkovich, Chandler Jones, et al., are rushing a mediocre o-line?

Didn't Luck get hit a ton last season?

 

Yes but did not everyone griped that he held the ball way to long trying to go for the home run

[Restored]

If the line the Colts put out towards the end of the season is healthy this year with TH being the swap at RG, I like the look of the Colts offensive line. Health will be the biggest question.

[Warhorse]

Belichick is playing chess. Grigson is playing checkers.

and fans are playing go fish...

[Archer]

I like to see the passion in the fans, and I respect those who feel real strongly that we need to add as much defense as possible.  But I really think people are over-stating the holes on the D.  Particularly the line.  Last year Jones and Redding had ongoing injury problems, and all of our NT-types were just getting their first taste of major playing time.  Langford, a healthy Jones, and another year's development for Kerr, Chapman, and Hughes should help a lot, without even adding a DL in the draft (which I think we will do).  I agree with Grigson when he says that be have a pretty balanced team right now.  I don't see any critical weaknesses that must be addressed yesterday, which is why Grigson can afford to take the BPA.

[Warhorse]

You are 100% correct. The Patriots are not afraid of anyone we could ever field on offense because their team is better built and coached.

You know, in another thread you alluded to becoming a Pats fan. You seem pretty enamored with them, maybe give it a shot?

[Mouthfire]

Belichick is playing chess. Grigson is playing checkers.

 

I have to admit.  That made me laugh.

[BpG]

Says the Browns fan, whose team gave a center $8m/year, then drafted a center at #19.

 

And then the derisiveness toward a "5'10" WR", when Antonio Brown rips the Browns apart twice a year...

 

 

Sweet deflection. You talking trash to me doesn't make this pick any less stupid. 

[Flash7]

I think a lot of the gripes that Colts fans have has to do with how we've played against the Patriots and how we've lost to them the same way 4 straight times, allowing at least 40+ points in each game, and getting steamrolled in the process.

 

2012:  Colts 24 - Patriots 49  Luck: 27 of 50 for 334 Yards

2013:  Colts 22 - Patriots 43  Luck: 20 of 41 for 331 Yards

2014:  Colts 20 - Patriots 42  Luck: 23 of 39 for 303 Yards

2014:  Colts 7   - Patriots 45  Luck: 12 of 33 for 126 Yards

 

As you can see, The Patriots have averaged over 40 points per game against the Colts. Luck has also thrown for over 300 yards in 3 of 4 outings against NE. Our offense really struggled in the AFCCG. It has been primarily the defense that hasn't been able to contain NE's offense. 

 

We are fine on offense and really struggle on defense. This has been the case for over a decade now. I think, as fans, we were hoping to finally have a different approach regardless of the BPA draft philosophy. 

[Superman]

Sweet deflection. You talking trash to me doesn't make this pick any less stupid. 

 

It's not a deflection at all, nor is it trash talk. It's a reinforcement of the BPA strategy, and it highlights how dumb it is to be critical of drafting a 5'10" receiver, as if they have no value. You ought to know better, considering the way your team drafted and considering the best player in your division is a 5'10" receiver. The Browns took Erving because they thought he's a really good player, not because they need a center. And I just cannot fathom a Browns fan speaking poorly about a receiver because he's 5'10". 

[ztboiler]

At some point, you just have to ask yourself, what the heck is going on here. A wide receiver? What?!

 

What happened to "power run"? Grigson just scrapping that plan already?

 

I immediately thought of this forum when I saw they took a 5'10 WR. The only thing dumber would have been them taking a QB in the first. 

Thanks for thinking of us in our time of need....

 

As is so often the case, when you put others first it make you feel warm and good inside.  I hope you feel better now.

[Colts_Fan12]

Belichick is playing chess. Grigson is playing checkers.

Grigson couldn't do a puzzle with only 10 pieces

[aaron11]

Just how is Luck going to get them the ball if Malcolm Brown, Hightower, Collins, Ninkovich, Chandler Jones, et al., are rushing a mediocre o-line?

Didn't Luck get hit a ton last season?

we have one game scheduled against the patriots next year, focusing solely on that would be stupid.  also the line is already better and will probably get another upgrade or two.

[Colts_Fan12]

So many people griping about the Pat fans laughing at us because their team will be able to continue to run all over ours. It seems to be that if Grigson and BB are playing chess, then Grigson just made a move that should scare the heck out of Pat fans. If the Pats had our receiving corps and we had their CBs, you'd all be freakin' out right now! Honestly, if we have T.Y. and Dorsett on the field at the same time with some of our other mismatches (AJ, Fleener, Moncrief), how in Sam Hill are they gonna cover them all? Not to mention that we have what is likey to be the NFL's best QB this year. I'd say the Pats are in "check", and they don't have a lot of counter-moves they can make.

only problem is they can still rush for over a million yards again and gronk will still kill us over the middle

[Colts_Fan12]

Yeah right!!! If Luck is running for his life and we can't run the ball still, how is Luck going to find his "plethora" of weapons we have drafted for him?

Same way Peyton couldn't find Harrison, Wayne, Stokely and Clark when Diem was getting delayed blitzes from Bruschi/McGinnest, Lilja was getting blitzed by Joey Porter, and same way Peyton was on the sidelines with the other team having 7 and 8 minute drives against his DL.

building the exact same way as Polian

[pacolts56]

One thing to note is....I have not seen anyone really complain about the player named Phillip Dorsett.

We just question the 1st round selection when there were some defensive beasts to be had. I think Dorsett is a great kid and will be great for the city of Indianapolis.

Same here....my question is the value Belichick saw in Brown at #32 that Grigson did not see at #29. His "and it wasn't close" BPA comment regarding Dorsett is what I question....not necessarily Dorsett's talent.

Oh well....I suppose we're doomed to Dorsett>Brown threads, and vice versa, for the next 5-6 years.

[Colts_Fan12]

Hey, that's an actual improvement!

Normally you think Grigson is playing hopscotch and falling on his face!

So, it looks like he's getting better....

nah he was actually just trying to eat the checkers

[Colts_Fan12]

One thing to note is....I have not seen anyone really complain about the player named Phillip Dorsett.

We just question the 1st round selection when there were some defensive beasts to be had. I think Dorsett is a great kid and will be great for the city of Indianapolis.

Very well said Brent!! That is exactly how I feel

[bigt]

I could totally see Grigs going RB and RT in rounds 2 and 3 then using the rest of the draft and supplemental to find a starting SS and depth at defense (secondary especially).  I thought we ran the ball pretty well last year as long as Richardson wasn't carrying the ball.  Our passing game started to spiral downward when Wayne tore his tri and all we had left at wr that was worth anything were TY and Moncrief.  We fixed that problem with Dorsett and Jonhson.  It was Boom carrying the ball the 2nd half of season (Bengals practice squad guy I think).  I imagine we can do much better with Gore, Boom, and either Coleman, Duke, or Abdullah.

 

All we need now is a quality RT which we may already have in Mewhort if Gosder underwhelms again..  I could see our starting line being 

 

Costanzo, Mewhort, Holmes, Thomas, Cherilius

 

We have a ton of guards right now - Mewhort, Thomas, Heenan, Herremans, Thornton.  I would rather give Mewhort a shot at RT and move Cherilius to backup.  Leaving a starting line of.

 

Costanzo, Herremans, Holmes, Thomas, Mewhort.  

 

I see no reason, if we go offense in rounds 2 and 3, why we won't finish as the number one offense in the league.  If our defense doesn't improve and we finish 11th again (not bad), our average offense/defense score will be 6.  I'm good with that. 

[BOTT]

Garry Kasparov if Pagano isnt resigned. He knows chess

[ColtsFan22]

In the draft it is also about value and we selected a second round grade and ignored someone like Malcolm Brown who was rated 19/20th on most draft boards.

We should have taken Brown and then did what the Giants just did in moving up to get Landon Collins. We missed on the softball lob.

[BrentMc11]

Same here....my question is the value Belichick saw in Brown at #32 that Grigson did not see at #29. His "and it wasn't close" BPA comment regarding Dorsett is what I question....not necessarily Dorsett's talent.

Oh well....I suppose we're doomed to Dorsett>Brown threads, and vice versa, for the next 5-6 years.

Exactly.  It seems we had a respectable day 2....time will tell.

[theanarchist]

Says the Browns fan, whose team gave a center $8m/year, then drafted a center at #19.

 

And then the derisiveness toward a "5'10" WR", when Antonio Brown rips the Browns apart twice a year...

Zing!

[TrueBlue12]

What is the over under on the the number of pressures, hits and sacks that Malcom Brown, the player Grigs should have taken, will have when we next play the Pats?

[Jeff Tolle]

You guys that are trashing Grigs, are overreacting and stressing out way too much. We are fans, not G.M.'s or talent scouts. We don't know squat, compared to these guy's in our front office. I don't necessarily agree with everything they do, but you doomsdayer's are nuts. Calm down, and have some fun!

[coltsfanatic24]

I like the player just not the pick. With how bad this defense was last year, you had to go defense in the 1st round. Dorsett won't be able to stop the run or sack Brady. Collins, Gregory, and Brown would have been better value. Those were blue chip 1st round talent and Grigson passed on them for a luxury WR. The Patriots and Seahawks build their defenses and draft them early. Grigson is doing the complete opposite. I'd grade Dorsett as a player an A, but the pick a C because WR was not a need. 

[Colts_Fan12]

I like the player just not the pick. With how bad this defense was last year, you had to go defense in the 1st round. Dorsett won't be able to stop the run or sack Brady. Collins, Gregory, and Brown would have been better value. Those were blue chip 1st round talent and Grigson passed on them for a luxury WR. The Patriots and Seahawks build their defenses and draft them early. Grigson is doing the complete opposite. I'd grade Dorsett as a player an A, but the pick a C because WR was not a need.

spot on! Same here there isn't anything wrong with Dorsett he's a great player

[coltsfanatic24]

We have one elite player on defense and that's Davis. That's just not good enough. The Patriots and Seahawks have 4 or 5 each. The defense is not good at all against elite teams we just play in a easy division. The Steerlers and Patriots two teams that we'll likely see in the playoffs set records against this defense. There were so many great defensive prospects left, Dorsett was a luxury pick.

[Superman]

What is the over under on the the number of pressures, hits and sacks that Malcom Brown, the player Grigs should have taken, will have when we next play the Pats?

 

If I had to bet today, I'd lay money that Malcom Brown doesn't even dress when we play the Pats.

[NewColtsFan]

If I had to bet today, I'd lay money that Malcom Brown doesn't even dress when we play the Pats.

 

 

Why would you make that bet?

 

Not even dress?      You must be down on him as a player........

[Superman]

Why would you make that bet?

 

Not even dress?      You must be down on him as a player........

 

I'm not down on him. I don't think he's as good as others do; comparing him to Wilfork is a huge mistake, IMO. I think he was the third or fourth best DT/NT prospect on the board at the time. Even if we were locked into taking a DL at #29, for me, it wouldn't have been him. 

 

Separate from that, the Pats have a history of not playing rookie DL right away. We play them in Week 6. He might not be up to speed. They have some DL already in their rotation. Also, he's not a very good pass rusher, and our offense is going to throw the ball, no doubt. We'll see. I could be dead wrong.

[TrueBlue12]

If I had to bet today, I'd lay money that Malcom Brown doesn't even dress when we play the Pats.

Not worthy of a comment.

[NewColtsFan]

I'm not down on him. I don't think he's as good as others do; comparing him to Wilfork is a huge mistake, IMO. I think he was the third or fourth best DT/NT prospect on the board at the time. Even if we were locked into taking a DL at #29, for me, it wouldn't have been him. 

 

Separate from that, the Pats have a history of not playing rookie DL right away. We play them in Week 6. He might not be up to speed. They have some DL already in their rotation. Also, he's not a very good pass rusher, and our offense is going to throw the ball, no doubt. We'll see. I could be dead wrong.

 

For whatever it's worth,  and I can't even remember who said this the last two days....

 

But I heard someone (expert) says that Brown is NOT the replacement for Wilfork.    He's NOT a NT.

 

He's a DE or DT,  but NOT a NT.

[Gavin]

For whatever it's worth,  and I can't even remember who said this the last two days....

 

But I heard someone (expert) says that Brown is NOT the replacement for Wilfork.    He's NOT a NT.

 

He's a DE or DT,  but NOT a NT.

Bingo

[Superman]

For whatever it's worth,  and I can't even remember who said this the last two days....

 

But I heard someone (expert) says that Brown is NOT the replacement for Wilfork.    He's NOT a NT.

 

He's a DE or DT,  but NOT a NT.

 

I agree. Yet, plenty of people are mentioning him as the Wilfork replacement. 

[TrueBlue12]

So many people griping about the Pat fans laughing at us because their team will be able to continue to run all over ours.  It seems to be that if Grigson and BB are playing chess, then Grigson just made a move that should scare the heck out of Pat fans.  If the Pats had our receiving corps and we had their CBs, you'd all be freakin' out right now!  Honestly, if we have T.Y. and Dorsett on the field at the same time with some of our other mismatches (AJ, Fleener, Moncrief), how in Sam Hill are they gonna cover them all?  Not to mention that we have what is likey to be the NFL's best QB this year.  I'd say the Pats are in "check", and they don't have a lot of counter-moves they can make. 

Perhaps Belichick is playing chess to our checkers. In the 4th round Belichick chose 2 road-grading run blockers to improve their running game: Tre Jackson and Shaq Mason. It seems he is doubling down on his run offense.Did he do this afterr seeing that in free agency and the first two days of the draft we didn't fix our run stopping defense?

 

Did hiis queen just take our bishop that was putting him in check to give him check mate?

[BrentMc11]

I like to see the passion in the fans, and I respect those who feel real strongly that we need to add as much defense as possible.  But I really think people are over-stating the holes on the D.  Particularly the line.  Last year Jones and Redding had ongoing injury problems, and all of our NT-types were just getting their first taste of major playing time.  Langford, a healthy Jones, and another year's development for Kerr, Chapman, and Hughes should help a lot, without even adding a DL in the draft (which I think we will do).  I agree with Grigson when he says that be have a pretty balanced team right now.  I don't see any critical weaknesses that must be addressed yesterday, which is why Grigson can afford to take the BPA.

Great point Archer.  My guess is Kerr and Quarles...and Hughes have been in the gym.  Jones is healthy....Langford will help against the run.  Fisher taught him well.  Is anybody here that cannot wait until training camp?            

[Archer]

Perhaps Belichick is playing chess to our checkers. In the 4th round Belichick chose 2 road-grading run blockers to improve their running game: Tre Jackson and Shaq Mason. It seems he is doubling down on his run offense.Did he do this afterr seeing that in free agency and the first two days of the draft we didn't fix our run stopping defense?

 

Did hiis queen just take our bishop that was putting him in check to give him check mate?

 

Really regretting the snap decision to include the chess theme, especially considering my marginal chess game.  However, I did notice that same thing about the running OL in the Pats' middle rounds.  That may indeed be a chess move to take advantage of our lack of action on a run-stuffing DL.  In reality, I don't see the Dorsett pick as a chess move by Grigson, but rather as the BPA, as management has maintained.  But it will create very tough match-up problems for the Pats in particular and every opponent in general.  Everyone can scheme to cover Hilton's speed, but few can effectively do so for Hilton and Dorsett simultaneously (assuming Dorsett is what we think he is).  As far as NE's move, I'm really not worried.  I'm in the minority, but I thought going in that the Colts' problems against the run have been ridiculously overstated as a critical weakness.  I expect increased contributions from Jones, Kerr, Chapman, and Hughes.  Plus, ironman Langford probably trumps an oft-injured Redding (though I really like Redding).  Add Irving and a healthy Freeman, as well as addition by subtraction Landry, and I expect massive improvement in run defense without drafting a soul.  Plus, and most don't want to hear this, but we had only around four games this year where we were unable to stop the run.  In general, we didn't do that bad in that area.  Look at the playoff game against Cincinnati's vaunted rushing attack.  They couldn't get anything going.  I don't think those NE and Pittsburgh games were as much personnel as they were game planning and strategy.   

[BOTT]

Perhaps Belichick is playing chess to our checkers. In the 4th round Belichick chose 2 road-grading run blockers to improve their running game: Tre Jackson and Shaq Mason. It seems he is doubling down on his run offense.Did he do this afterr seeing that in free agency and the first two days of the draft we didn't fix our run stopping defense?

 

Did hiis queen just take our bishop that was putting him in check to give him check mate?

I'm guessing he did it because the patriots starting guards are both on the wrong side of 30

[Coffeedrinker]

Perhaps Belichick is playing chess to our checkers. In the 4th round Belichick chose 2 road-grading run blockers to improve their running game: Tre Jackson and Shaq Mason. It seems he is doubling down on his run offense.Did he do this afterr seeing that in free agency and the first two days of the draft we didn't fix our run stopping defense?

 

Did hiis queen just take our bishop that was putting him in check to give him check mate?

I can guarantee you that the Patriots draft had absolutely nothing to do with who the Colts drafted or signed in free agency.

 

On the 2nd part.... .no.

 

On the flip side, the Colts did not go into the draft trying to find a way to beat the Patriots, they went into the draft to select college players that they think can help the team now and in the future.