Fire Grigson?

[csmopar]

You cant be serious? He took a 2-14 team that was in cap space hell and made a winner out of them. Good enough to make the AFC championship game in 3 seasons. That's with 2 offensive coordinators. A rookie QB. And 49 new players out of 53 on the active roster. He won GM of the year his first year. Have you ever heard the term " Rome wasn't built in a day? Yes he has missed on a couple of moves but the good ones way outweigh the bad.

My thoughts exactly.

Did we get embarrassed-yes

Do we have glaring holes to fill- yes

Do we make mistakes in game - yes

has he missed on a some moves- yes

has he nailed some moves-yes

does he have a competive fire- yes

does he manage the cap well- yes

does he keep kicking the bushes to see what he can find -yes

has he improved the team-yes

Does he want to continue to grow-yes

did he not say it would be a 3 to 5year rebuilding procress- yes

are we ahead of schedule -yes

can we compete with play off level teams- yes (eexcept for the pats, we've beaten most of the other yearly contenders at least once)

Is there room to improve- yes

Does he deserve to be fired- absolutely not.

[Superman]

Well, can someone tell me what a "good" GM's record should be in terms of hits/misses in the draft and free agency?  100%?  75%  50%?  Should it just be the record of the team?  Team progress?

 

We went from 2-14 and a laughing stock to the AFC championship in three years.  Progress no?

We've had three straight 11-5 marks.  Pretty good team record.

 

IMO, here's how he's done in the draft/FA:

 

Good:  Luck, TY, Moncrief, Mewhort, Allen, Fleener, Bradshaw, DQ, Vontae, Redding, Mike Adams, Waldon, Gosder (when healthy).

Bad:  TRich, Landry.

So-so:  Toler, Freeman, Chapman, Hughes, Jones, RJF,

Jury still out:  Newsome, Werner (IMO), Holmes.

 

I see no reason to fire him.  IMO, it shouldn't even be in the discussion (except for angry fans of course).

 

Pretty much co-signed.

 

I've said many times, I think Grigson has done pretty well through his first three years. A few mistakes have taken the shine off of what I think is a strong resume, overall. Turning this roster over and getting the team turned around was a tall task, and he nailed that right off the bat.

 

The next step is taking us to the top tier, upper echelon of the league, where we should be, given how good our QB is. Those are my expectations for Grigson now, and by missing on two consecutive first rounders, he's dug himself a little bit of a hole there. If we're still looking up at teams next year, my tone on Grigson changes.

 

So no, he should NOT be fired. But this is a critical year for him.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

LOL we should just fire everyone. Cut everyone. Start btand new again. I think if we do that we'll be super contenders quicker this time around.

Yup just like the Browns :-) They do that every year

[BOTT]

In defense of Grigson, our biggest mistake to date is TRich. I always felt this move was driven by Irsay's influence.

Werner on the other hand absolutely faded, but he sill has value. I think he'll need to gain 25 lbs and move to DE, where his strength will be more relevant. His speed and agility is lost at OLB.

Faded? When did he ever really start?

[Smash Mouth]

Well, can someone tell me what a "good" GM's record should be in terms of hits/misses in the draft and free agency?  100%?  75%  50%?  Should it just be the record of the team?  Team progress?

 

We went from 2-14 and a laughing stock to the AFC championship in three years.  Progress no?

We've had three straight 11-5 marks.  Pretty good team record.

 

IMO, here's how he's done in the draft/FA:

 

Good:  Luck, TY, Moncrief, Mewhort, Allen, Fleener, Bradshaw, DQ, Vontae, Redding, Mike Adams, Waldon, Gosder (when healthy).

Bad:  TRich, Landry.

So-so:  Toler, Freeman, Chapman, Hughes, Jones, RJF,

Jury still out:  Newsome, Werner (IMO), Holmes.

 

I see no reason to fire him.  IMO, it shouldn't even be in the discussion (except for angry fans of course).

There has been progress year-to-year-to-year on paper.  But my eyes don't see it that way.  I see that we have a QB who has matured and is largely responsible for that progress.  But the overall roster is middle of the pack.  The QB and a weak division elevated us the past two seasons.  

 

I think that you have overrated some of the good on your list: Redding, Gosder, Walden. Redding was a great guy to have along to change the culture bout there should be a young stud that he's mentoring to take over at DE. I think that the clock is ticking on Hughes and Holmes.  I'm not convinced that they're long term answers.  I also think you gave Werner a free pass when his own coach threw him under the bus - he was a #1 pick.

 

The TRich trade has a longer term effect given what we gave up for him. 

 

Maybe its not time to fire Grigson but if he and Pagano don't improve the toughness of the OL and DL/LBs one of them won't get a 5th year. You can't just get bullied by the Pats (2x), Steelers, Dallas, etc and not make changes.  At some point football is about brute strength and the Colts have been exposed as soft

[BOTT]

He's been mediocre so far.

[NewColtsFan]

Anyone who thinks Grigson should be fired at this point simply doesn't know football.

 

They might think they do,  but they don't.

 

This is an embarrassing thread.      

[crazycolt1]

By some of the standards expected of Grigson then 29 other GMs should lose their jobs.   I find it ironic that some say they are Colt fans and then show otherwise.

[SteelDragon]

I don't believe Grigson is even as good as Polian yet. So I think if he was Polian 2.0 that would be an improvement.

This roster is pretty weak outside of Andrew Luck.

I like Grigson but I think it's going to be a few more years of building and his learning from his mistakes. If he can even overcome them.

T-Rich and Werner have been disastrous. GMs have certainly been fired for less.

Irsay has shown he is unafraid to blow things up. I think if both O- and D-lines are not improved this year, the Grigs/Pags show should get the plug pulled.

[masterlock]

The moves that have been made. Do some of you think he should be fired before we have a Polian 2.0 on our hands. A guy masked by good quarterback play.

Until the end of his tenure with the Colts, when he basically turned things over to his son Chris, I think Polian did an awesome job. It's not easy to field a competitive roster when one player eats up 25 percent of the cap (or whatever Peyton's cap number was).

[Steamboat_Shaun]

The oline issue is quite frankly the most surprising of it all. It's been pretty shotty from day one and has failed to improve until the last 2 1/2 games. Maybe it's griggs thinking he was an olineman and can evaluate them best so he shuns his scouts opinions or maybe he needs better oline scouts or his oline coach isn't using staff well. We just don't know whaT the issue here is on this or really any area of the team. What is known, this team is a little off kilter from where it should be with the talent it does have. It's not totally devoid of talent, is it used correctly is my question??

 

The problem isn't lack of talent, it's lack of depth. When a starter gets injured on this team, it seems to effect them more than any other squad in the league.

[Two_pound]

What gm hasn't made mistakes? Remember Scott Pioli once sent the 34th pick in the draft to the pats for a qb who had played a total of 15 games in 8 years> Talk about someone who needed to get fired. Even Polian's record here wasn't spotless. Ben Ijalana, Tony Ugoh, Vincent Burns, Quinn Pitcock. The year he traded down to pick Reggie, he then turned around and back up in the second round for Idrees Bashir. One of the greatest picks ever in Colt history followed by one of the worst. No one is going to hit 100% of the time.

[BOTT]

The problem isn't lack of talent, it's lack of depth. When a starter gets injured on this team, it seems to effect them more than any other squad in the league.

No, it's a lack of talent also. Not a lot of areas on this team shine.

[crazycolt1]

I don't believe Grigson is even as good as Polian yet. So I think if he was Polian 2.0 that would be an improvement.

This roster is pretty weak outside of Andrew Luck.

I like Grigson but I think it's going to be a few more years of building and his learning from his mistakes. If he can even overcome them.

T-Rich and Werner have been disastrous. GMs have certainly been fired for less.

Irsay has shown he is unafraid to blow things up. I think if both O- and D-lines are not improved this year, the Grigs/Pags show should get the plug pulled.

So in your opinion Hilton, Allen, Brown, Davis, Fleener, Toler ..ect..ect.. are weak? I don't mean this as an insult but maybe you should do some research on the NFL.

[Dark Superman]

I don't have a problem with Grigs..

The guy is hell bent on making this a championship team.

And he's done well..

Next season we will really get to see how far we've come since 2011

[CanuckColt]

Gawd No!  Keep Grigson!  Fire Coach Chuckles, like yesterday. 

I would rather Chud had a shot at HC than keep Chuckles.

 

It's an easy change for Irsay...Chuckles is stepping down for health reasons and Chud is promoted.

[NewColtsFan]

Gawd No!  Keep Grigson!  Fire Coach Chuckles, like yesterday. 

I would rather Chud had a shot at HC than keep Chuckles.

 

It's an easy change for Irsay...Chuckles is stepping down for health reasons and Chud is promoted.

 

If Chuck is healthy,  then Irsay could be sued for saying Chuck is stepping down for health reasons.

 

Because if you think he's stepping down without being fired -- you're seriously delusional.

 

And you want to get rid of the guy who has taken us to the playoffs three straight years......   Good grief....    

[cmgww]

*you're

Don't be that guy....

[chrisfarley]

He made a huge mistake on Richardson.  Cost us draft picks and time  -  and a few other mistakes.  But he's made more good plays than bad, and for that, he deserves kudos and his millions.  He has to take the heat with some of his moves and he is not hiding anywhere.  He has to be ultimately responsible for embarassing losses, of which there were many this season.  He will stand up to his failures and he will be humble with his successes.  He is as young in the league at GM as Luck is QB, so we give him 5 years to get this maching rolling.  I think we are on course.  (If I hear build the monster anymore, I think I will get hives).

[BOTT]

If Chuck is healthy,  then Irsay could be sued for saying Chuck is stepping down for health reasons.

 

Because if you think he's stepping down without being fired -- you're seriously delusional.

 

And you want to get rid of the guy who has taken us to the playoffs three straight years......   Good grief....    

No one said anything about getting rid of Luck lol

[CanuckColt]

If Chuck is healthy,  then Irsay could be sued for saying Chuck is stepping down for health reasons.

 

Because if you think he's stepping down without being fired -- you're seriously delusional.

 

And you want to get rid of the guy who has taken us to the playoffs three straight years......   Good grief....    

Gimme a break! 

Arians formulated this team in Luck's 1st year and coached them to 11-5.

Chuckles took over Arians team in the 2nd year and rode them to another 11-5.

Andrew had his break-out year in the 3rd year and pushed the team to 11-5 in spite of Coach Chuckles.

Pagano has led nothing...he cannot motivate his players, he cannot prepare his team for a big game, he cannot manage the game making good in-game adjustments and he can't even objectively evaluate the players he has.

Geez...mindless, freakin' cheerleader.

[SteelDragon]

Until the end of his tenure with the Colts, when he basically turned things over to his son Chris, I think Polian did an awesome job. It's not easy to field a competitive roster when one player eats up 25 percent of the cap (or whatever Peyton's cap number was).

Exactly. Does anyone have any faith that Grigs can build a roster when Luck's cap hit is much higher? He's ponied up alot of cash for free agent mediocrity

[04DarkShadowGT]

I'm sorry the people who think Grigson is doing a bad job or want him fired just don't understand NFL football.  

 

You think Seattle's D was built in three years from scratch?  They certainly drafted guys who have been excellent but the LOB was mostly there before Wilson.  

 

Coaches and GM's dont go from the #1 pick to the AFC Championship game if they are awful. Do some of you realize what this team was when he took over?  Talk about Monday morning quarterbacks that have no clue how to scout players or deal with the salary cap ramifications.

 

The both talked Wayne into staying instead of going to NE, they signed Davis, they drafted Luck, Fleener, Allen, TY, Ballard, Mewhort, Newsome, Moncrief, plus guys like Freeman from the CFL and undrafted guys producing.  The 2013 draft proved to be not quite as good as the other two but we still got some prodcutive players.  

 

Really he has missed on Landry, Richardson, and Werner.  That is not too shabby imo.

[hoosierhawk]

I don't believe Grigson is even as good as Polian yet. So I think if he was Polian 2.0 that would be an improvement.

This roster is pretty weak outside of Andrew Luck.

I like Grigson but I think it's going to be a few more years of building and his learning from his mistakes. If he can even overcome them.

T-Rich and Werner have been disastrous. GMs have certainly been fired for less.

Irsay has shown he is unafraid to blow things up. I think if both O- and D-lines are not improved this year, the Grigs/Pags show should get the plug pulled.

33-15 over the last three regular seasons. 3-3 in playoffs over three season. Really, please name a GM who has been after there first three years with a record like that. Especially coming off a 4-11 record.

[cmgww]

No, seriously? Man some of you are spoiled.

Keep this in mind. Grigson is 42. By NFL GM standards he's a baby. Polian was 55 when he was hired by the Colts.....with experience in the USFL, the CFL, and as GM of both the Bills and Panthers. Grigson will learn. He strikes me as young and aggressive, willing to take risks that Polian wouldn't. That can be a double edged sword.

Hits- Davis (x100, considering what he was in Miami), Toler (has his moments but it solid), TY, Coby, Allen, Freeman, DQ Jackson, Moncrief (just a rookie, and just wait until he gets more experience), Mewhort, Holmes (give it time), Adams....

Pure misses- TRich. Hindsight is 20/20, but think back to when he made the trade. We had just lost Ballard and Brown hadn't proven himself at all. TRich had a very solid rookie season. Grigsons biggest mistake was trading a 1 instead of a 2/3 for him. We all know how it worked out, but mostly everyone here was happy with the signing AT THE TIME. There were a few complaints about giving up a 1 pick, but all in all people were ok with it. Go back and look, if the threads go back that far.

Thomas....only bc of injury. If this line had stayed healthy all year I think we'd have a much better run game than we did. 11 different line combinations! To make it as far as we did, considering the line issues, that is solid in my book.

Landry- Great pickup if it was 2001. But not today in the pass happy, protect the receiver NFL. Plus the PED suspension....

Jury still out- Werner, Thornton, Chapman (one more year, that's it), Newsome (again give it time)

All in all, Grigson has swung and hit big ones, and swung and whiffed. He's like a young power hitter in baseball. Takes a few too many risks in going for it all and can come up empty. That young power hitter, if successful, will mature into a veteran player who works to get on base. I give him a few more years, but he does need to come up big in this draft and FA period.

[Superman]

Gimme a break! 

Arians formulated this team in Luck's 1st year and coached them to 11-5.

Chuckles took over Arians team in the 2nd year and rode them to another 11-5.

Andrew had his break-out year in the 3rd year and pushed the team to 11-5 in spite of Coach Chuckles.

Pagano has led nothing...he cannot motivate his players, he cannot prepare his team for a big game, he cannot manage the game making good in-game adjustments and he can't even objectively evaluate the players he has.

Geez...mindless, freakin' cheerleader.

 

You're like a caricature at this point.

[Colts420]

The moves that have been made. Do some of you think he should be fired before we have a Polian 2.0 on our hands. A guy masked by good quarterback play.

Polian never traded for guys to get better. Grigs is willing to spend money to make us better. Just because you play madden doesnt make you an expect as an GM

[Jdubu]

The problem isn't lack of talent, it's lack of depth. When a starter gets injured on this team, it seems to effect them more than any other squad in the league.

I'd be willing to accept that answer if we had a decent oline since 2006.

[SteelDragon]

33-15 over the last three regular seasons. 3-3 in playoffs over three season. Really, please name a GM who has been after there first three years with a record like that. Especially coming off a 4-11 record.

Having excellence at the QB can cure alot of ills. The jury's still out on our GM. I think he's good, but some of those decisions were embarrassingly bad.

[NewColtsFan]

Gimme a break! 

Arians formulated this team in Luck's 1st year and coached them to 11-5.

Chuckles took over Arians team in the 2nd year and rode them to another 11-5.

Andrew had his break-out year in the 3rd year and pushed the team to 11-5 in spite of Coach Chuckles.

Pagano has led nothing...he cannot motivate his players, he cannot prepare his team for a big game, he cannot manage the game making good in-game adjustments and he can't even objectively evaluate the players he has.

Geez...mindless, freakin' cheerleader.

 

You live in Canada.    I guess it's much, MUCH colder than than I thought.     So cold, your brain has frozen over.    Your answer was far worse than I thought it would be.

 

Holy cow.   I've always wondered just how little you know about football,   and now,  with this post,  I know.  

 

You know.....   Nothing...             

[hoosierhawk]

Having excellence at the QB can cure alot of ills. The jury's still out on our GM. I think he's good, but some of those decisions were embarrassingly bad.

I waiting for the names of the GMs fired after three years with a record better than Grigson.

[SteelDragon]

Hold your breath, I'll get back to ya. =)

[HarryTheCat]

Grigson can arguably be called one of the best GM's in football. However, I agree with that other thread was posted. He needs to have a good 2015 draft and free agency. 

A camel can "arguably" be called a Thoroughbred, but no matter how hard you whip it, it ain't gonna win the Kentucky Derby.

[esmort]

I an not ready to fire him yet .... I think this offseason and draft should be a major determining factor in his fate.

 

 

I don't agree with some of the players many posters are giving him credit for though ...

 

-He doesn't get credit for Luck, that pick was already made.  

-Fleener pick shouldn't be used to support his resume, 90% of the board and many "draft gurus" wanted to draft Fleener .... I even like Fleener and have defended him on here .... He also still has not quite hit that "good enough to brag about point" yet ....and he wasn't even the best pick in that spot he was drafted.

-Allen was sitting there to be cherry picked, that pick didn't take a genius.

-DJax - was not that great of move

-Redding was all Pagano

-Werner - Never loved the pick, but I stuck up for him at first, but he was a wasted 1st rnd pick.

 

He has some good moves and some average moves on his resume ... but TY and V.Davis are his only real "Gold Stars", and the TRich black mark offsets one of those. 

[GoColts8818]

This thread seems to sum up exactly how spoiled our fanbase has become.  The idea of firing Ryan Grigson is so ridicules I am not really sure where to start. 

 

When he was hired he was taking over a team coming off a 2-14 team and then his first real official act as General Manager was to release the best player in the history of the franchise (even if it wasn't his call he still had to do the paperwork to make it happen.)  Then he turned around and released most of the players who had been bulk of the success this team had had since 2006.  The ones he didn't release were already free agents for the most part so he was pretty much starting over.  He did re-sign two of those guys in Mathis and Wayne to be guys to help lead the transition but other than that he was dealing with a small group of players coming back to start over with.  It was so bad just about EVERYONE said at best it would take three years for the Colts just to be a playoff team again. 

 

Grigson didn't buy that though and built a team that made the playoffs that first year and has been to the playoffs every year since.  On top of that, where his predecessors teams would struggle in the playoffs his teams have succeeded at a time of year Colts fans have been pleading for them to have more success for years to the point in year three they were in the AFCCG.  I don't know how many times I have heard people say all of Polian's regular season success didn't matter because his teams failed when it counted most.  Grigson teams have surpassed most people's expectations in terms of the post-season every year and his teams have made progress in the post-season every year and now people complain because they don't beat enough "good teams" during the regular season.

 

Has Grigson had his mistakes?  Sure he has but show me a perfect GM.  Every GM is going to have his misses.  Did Grigson miss badly in trading for Richardson?  Yes he did but it's the same thought process that lead to the trade for Richardson that also lead him to make a move for Davis.  I think that move worked out pretty well.  Did he miss on draft Werner.  It sure looks that way but he's hit on far more picks than he's missed on since he's been here.  He found six starters in the 2012 draft, SIX.  Do you know how unheard of that is?  In that draft he also nailed the most important position in football in a QB and yes he gets credit for drafting Andrew Luck.  It was not a slam dunk to take Luck, several people honestly thought RG3 was the better option.  It might have been a no brainier to Grigson but if it was that only scores him extra points for being able to recognize Luck was the pick because he was better because several other people thought RG3 was better. 

 

He then came back with a pretty bad 2013 draft.  I would agree there.  This year though he rebounded.  He only had five picks but he made them count with three starters by the end of the year in Mewhort, Moncrief, and Newsome.  He also found a good special teamer in Jackson and the last pick was on IR all year.  Even if the tackle never plays hitting on four of five picks is a pretty good batting average for a draft class. 

 

His free agent signings haven't been as productive as people would like and frankly his best free agent moves have been in who he re-signed in Wayne, Mathis, and Davis and who he didn't re-sign in Freeney, Bethea, Brown, or Garcon than just about any free agent he has signed.  This is an area he needs to improve.

 

So realistically he has produced a team that is light years ahead of where they were supposed to be when he got his job and probably done a solid B's job as a GM.  It hasn't been perfect and we saw the results of that at times when it was clear we still just lack talent in some areas.  Still this is a young team that has over achieved every year.  It's not a team he inherited it's a team he's built from the ground up.  Had Chris Polian done half as good of a job as Grigson has 2011 would have never happened.  He built a 2-14 team into a AFCCG team in just three years. Yet what do I see?  Someone suggesting he should be fired.  You have to be kidding me.  There have been some real ridicules ideas posted in the past few days but this one takes the cake. 

[SteelDragon]

I waiting for the names of the GMs fired after three years with a record better than Grigson.

I can only think of one other instance where a GM had walked into situation where they had a number one draft that was an Andrew Luck- caliber quarterback and that was our very own Bill Polian with Peyton Manning. Polian did however nail his first round pick in the subsequent draft for a RB in Edgerrin James. Much better than T-Rich. But the next draft saw Polian reach for a Bjorn Werner caliber(?) LB in Rob Morris. Interesting parallel. I wonder how long Polian would have lasted if Edgerrin had been T-Rich-like.

To answer your question - No GM had been fired for going 33-15 and only one other GM started with an Andrew Luck-caliber QB

[esmort]

In that draft he also nailed the most important position in football in a QB and yes he gets credit for drafting Andrew Luck.  It was not a slam dunk to take Luck, several people honestly thought RG3 was the better option.  It might have been a no brainier to Grigson but if it was that only scores him extra points for being able to recognize Luck was the pick because he was better because several other people thought RG3 was better. 

 

Grigson did not make the Luck pick .... Irsay made that pick, and no GM who would have been hired would have had a say in it.  If you think Luck was ever not the pick you are crazy ... If Luck had not been in that draft we would still have Manning.

[GoColts8818]

Grigson did not make the Luck pick .... Irsay made that pick, and no GM who would have been hired would have had a say in it.  If you think Luck was ever not the pick you are crazy ... If Luck had not been in that draft we would still have Manning.

Irsay made a point in saying he made he call on Manning but left the decision of the new QB to the new GM.  For everyone else in the world no it wasn't it a slam dunk go look it up, several very smart people have said they would have taken RG3 over Luck.  If it was a slam dunk for Girgson like I said before then that credit goes to Grigson for being smart enough for it to be a slam dunk and not falling for what several other people did. Also there is a quote that others have tossed out here several times from Irsay saying had the Colts had the second pick in the draft and the team with the first pick took Luck then the Colts would have drafted RG3 and still moved on from Manning. 

[esmort]

Irsay made a point in saying he made he call on Manning but left the decision of the new QB to the new GM.  For everyone else in the world no it wasn't it a slam dunk go look it up, several very smart people have said they would have taken RG3 over Luck.  If it was a slam dunk for Girgson like I said before then that credit goes to Grigson for being smart enough for it to be a slam dunk and not falling for what several other people did. Also there is a quote that others have tossed out here several times from Irsay saying had the Colts had the second pick in the draft and the team with the first pick took Luck then the Colts would have drafted RG3 and still moved on from Manning. 

 

Just because Irsay said something to the media doesn't mean it was true ... he was trying not to appear to undermine a new, young GM.  Yes, there were a few people who said they would have taken RG3, but they were a small minority.  We were never going to take RG3 ... without Luck in the draft we keep Manning.  If you really believe Irsay didn't make this call and RG3 was a real consideration I have a bridge and some swamp land to sell you. 

[GoColts8818]

Just because Irsay said something to the media doesn't mean it was true ... he was trying not to appear to undermine a new, young GM. Yes, there were a few people who said they would have taken RG3, but they were a small minority. We were never going to take RG3 ... without Luck in the draft we keep Manning. If you really believe Irsay didn't make this call and RG3 was a real consideration I have a bridge and some swamp land to sell you.

and just because you don't want to believe it to be true doesn't make it untrue. I at least have a quote to back up my point of view. What do you have to back up yours besides your opinion?

Also, if the Colts weren't serious about RG3 and had already made up their minds why on earth did they spend time scouting RG3? Heck, the league even said they could start their negotiations with the top pick early if they wanted too if they knew who they were taking and they didn't. Again, if the decision was a done deal why wait on that? That makes no sense. I think they were leaning Luck's way all along but Grigson didn't rush into it and made a smart and informed decision.

Grigson was the GM who picked Luck he gets credit for it just like he gets blame for the T-rich trade. You don't just get to cherry pick what happens on his watch and just give credit or blame on the things you want to because trust me had he made the wrong choice and picked RG3 people sure as heck would hold it against him.