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Patriots being investigated for Deflating footballs.....(Mega Merge)


RealityIsLuck

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1. Your name says it all.

2. Never knew of it. But sure I'll bite

3. The balls weren't used in game.

4. Warming them will not have anywhere near the effect as deflating them.

5. And finally, your team has a history of cheating.

 

1. Thank you.

2. Thats my point, crap happens all the time, we just dont know of it.

3. Didnt see that in the article.

4. Says who?

5. Go back far enough, and that can be said about almost every team in the NFL. Sad, but true.

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1. Thank you.

2. Thats my point, crap happens all the time, we just dont know of it.

3. Didnt see that in the article.

4. Says who?

5. Go back far enough, and that can be said about almost every team in the NFL. Sad, but true.

It said they were warming them pregame and that's when they warned them. Common sense man. Says physics dude.
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It said they were warming them pregame and that's when they warned them. Common sense man. Says physics dude.

 

Are we reading the same article? (in all seriousness...!!)

 

"Yeah, you can't do anything with the footballs in terms of any artificial, whether you're heating them up, whether it's a regular game ball or kicking ball, you can't do anything to the football," Blandino said. "So that was noticed during the game, both teams were made aware of it during the game and we will certainly remind the clubs as we get into more cold weather games that you can't do anything with the football in terms of heating them up with those sideline heaters."

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Are we reading the same article? (in all seriousness...!!)

"Yeah, you can't do anything with the footballs in terms of any artificial, whether you're heating them up, whether it's a regular game ball or kicking ball, you can't do anything to the football," Blandino said. "So that was noticed during the game, both teams were made aware of it during the game and we will certainly remind the clubs as we get into more cold weather games that you can't do anything with the football in terms of heating them up with those sideline heaters."

Thought I read pregame. Doesn't change the fact that deflating them has a much greater effect than warming them. The same amount of air is in them and the basks will cool after about 1 play. Warming them was just stupid. Deflating them however I'd over the course of the drive. If true, it's all their fault and more ammunition to call Patriots cheaters. But sure, go ahead and blame others for your teams cheating. Real classy, and real dumb.

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Thought I read pregame. Doesn't change the fact that deflating them has a much greater effect than warming them. The same amount of air is in them and the basks will cool after about 1 play. Warming them was just stupid. Deflating them however I'd over the course of the drive. If true, it's all their fault and more ammunition to call Patriots cheaters. But sure, go ahead and blame others for your teams cheating. Real classy, and real dumb.

 

I was in no way justifying anything that may of happened. My original point was ppl have suggested that the Pats be hung out  to dry, meanwhile this goes on all the time. 

 

Good try Mr. Strawman.

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http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/2sxul5/deflategate_could_the_weather_have_an_effect_on/

ABOVE EDIT: Switched the link to direct to the actual reddit discussion and not to a history of the redditer I've quoted below.

 

Science teacher here. Given the conditions of the game, a ball which meets specifications in the locker room could easily lose enough pressure to be considered under-inflated. Some math:
  • Guy-Lussac's Law describes the relationship between the pressure of a confined ideal gas and its temperature. For the sake of argument, we will assume that the football is a rigid enough container (unless a ball is massively deflated, it's volume won't change). The relationship is (P1/T1) = (P2/T2), where P is the pressure and T is the temperature in Kelvins.

  • The balls are inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 psi at a temperature of 70 degrees Farenheit (294.1 K). Let's assume an average ball has a pressure of 13 psi. Since these are initial values, we will call them P1 and T1.

  • The game time temperature was 49 degrees F (278 K). We are attempting to solve for the new pressure at this temperature, P2. We plug everything into the equation and get (13/294.1) = (P2/278). At the game time temperature, the balls would have a pressure of 12.3 psi, below league specifications.

*Furthermore, given that it was raining all day, the air in the stadium was saturated with water vapor. At 70 degrees, water has a vapor pressure of 0.38 psi. The total pressure of the ball is equal to the pressure of the air inside the ball and the vaporized water in the ball. At 49 degrees, the vapor pressure of water is 0.13 psi. Up to 0.25 additional psi can be lost if the balls were inflated by either the team or the refs prior to the game. Granted, it's unlikely that anyone would inflate balls from 0, but it easily could cost another couple hundredths of a psi in pressure.

  • For a ball that barely meets specifications (12.5 psi), it's pressure would drop to 11.8 psi during the game... enough to be considered massively underinflated.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/sports/football/eli-mannings-footballs-are-months-in-making.html?_r=0

 

 

 

That is because the ball has been scoured, scrubbed, soaked and seasoned, a breaking-in process that takes months and ensures that every ball used by the Giants in a game will meet Manning’s exact preferences. The leather will have been softened, the grip enhanced and the overall feel painstakingly assessed.

 

So it's okay to have a team spend months prepping a ball with "semi-secret" techniques, but if a single ball comes up below inflated specs at half-time the Patriots are crucified again as horrible cheaters.

 

 

Utter overreaction. 

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I was in no way justifying anything that may of happened. My original point was ppl have suggested that the Pats be hung out  to dry, meanwhile this goes on all the time. 

 

Good try Mr. Strawman.

I heard Aaron Rogers likes to over inflate the balls.

Personally I like the ones where the QB has pine tar on his towel :)

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I was in no way justifying anything that may of happened. My original point was ppl have suggested that the Pats be hung out to dry, meanwhile this goes on all the time.

Good try Mr. Strawman.

Learn the strawman argument and how it is applied. Cause your doing it wrong, and you were excusing it. you were trying to point out how others do it, insinuating that what the Pats did is typical and therefore ok. The difference is that Patriots have a documented history. Repeat offenders typically get greater punishments.

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http://www.reddit.com/user/niknight_ml

 

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/sports/football/eli-mannings-footballs-are-months-in-making.html?_r=0

 

 

 

 

So it's okay to have a team spend months prepping a ball with "semi-secret" techniques, but if a single ball comes up below inflated specs at half-time the Patriots are crucified again as horrible cheaters.

 

 

Utter overreaction. 

 

 science is funny that way.

 

lol at this one    "Then the ball is taken over to an electric spin wheel, where it undergoes another high-speed scrubbing"

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http://www.reddit.com/user/niknight_ml

 

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/sports/football/eli-mannings-footballs-are-months-in-making.html?_r=0

 

 

 

 

So it's okay to have a team spend months prepping a ball with "semi-secret" techniques, but if a single ball comes up below inflated specs at half-time the Patriots are crucified again as horrible cheaters.

 

 

Utter overreaction. 

 

 

PV = nRT baby . . . gotta love it . . . keep it coming, keep it coming. 

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Learn the strawman argument and how it is applied. Cause your doing it wrong, and you were excusing it. you were trying to point out how others do it, insinuating that what the Pats did is typical and therefore ok. The difference is that Patriots have a documented history. Repeat offenders typically get greater punishments.

 

straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument

 

"But sure, go ahead and blame others for your teams cheating. Real classy, and real dumb."

 

please, show me where I blamed others. Everything is in the thread. 

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It said they were warming them pregame and that's when they warned them. Common sense man. Says physics dude.

 

Actually the article mentioned that they were heating them in game.  Also physics says PV = nRT.  Physics also say one needs to add more air to ones tires in winter time.  If you ever have done that, or seen your tire low in the winter, you understand how a change in temperate can effect the pressure inside of a contained volume without the addition or removal of gas. 

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Based on the article posted early not sure why the refs did not just go over the ball boys that we need correctly inflated balls.  And give a warning to whomever deserved the warning.

 

The other troubling thing about the issue is how did the refs not know that it was happening in the game.  Anyone who has played sports that pick up a ball can tell if the ball is not properly inflated.  Refs have been grabbing balls and tossing them around for years.  Having done so, they could easily pick up the wrong inflation when they are handling the balls.  So this is something that would of been picked up immediately once the first ball went into play.

 

The refs could of just given a warning like in the Minn game

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And here's the problem with this thread...once the accusations came out, a great majority of you already made up your mind.

Here is the outline for Colts fans posts in this thread:

1st Paragraph: Say something like , "IF this is found out to be true, then I've lost all remaining respect for the franchise"...or "I really hope this isn't true, but if it is, they need to be punished."

2nd Paragraph: MAKE SURE to mention that this isn't why the Colts lost, because we certainly don't want to sound like we are making excuses of having sour grapes!!!

3rd Paragraph: Trash the Patriots by writing things like, "What a despicable franchise" or "Once a cheater always a cheater"....which basically shows us that you are NOT waiting to see the results of the investigation and that you HAVE already made up your mind. You aren't waiting for the "IF" to be proven at all, you're already asking how Patriots fans could possibly defend or root for this scum of a team.

That's not fair, nor is it the slightest bit objective. You can't figure out why Patriots fans are defensive? GoPats was very levelheaded in this thread, asking simply that people understand what the heck they are talking about before they whine about it...and some posters jumped at the chance to get a piece. It's too bad.

This thread became an open forum for opposing fans to take a dump on the Patriots, and boy you guys couldnt wait to drop those pants of yours!

 

 

Awwww boo hoo. Cry me a river. LOL its OK when 3 of "you guys" American , MDJ and another come on "our" forum and agree that Luck compares to Dalton. Nothing more than trolling and trying to inflame.. Now I have to see you whine about 3 or 4 out of probably 30 colt fans that "treat " your fan base poorly. You're kidding me right ? 

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It's come out now that the accusation came from someone in the Colt's organization, as is Bob Kravitz source. We in NE have our own resident sensationalist love-to-be-hated media trolls. The strange thing is, ask any Patriot fan what they think of Felger or Borges or Shaugnessy. 90% of us will want it made clear that their opinions do not reflect our own.

 

Source aside, air temperature is one of countless such possibilities for under-inflated footballs in the second half. It didn't need to be 10 degrees out for air pressure to potentially have dropped two hours after kick off by which time, the temperature had dropped into the 40's.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000437309/article/nfl-to-remind-teams-not-to-warm-footballs

 

 

I thought your link would substantiate your claim that the accusation came from someone in then Colt organization. To no surprise your link is a piece of garbage and is useless. So when are you going post evidence of what you claim ?

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Learn the strawman argument and how it is applied. Cause your doing it wrong, and you were excusing it. you were trying to point out how others do it, insinuating that what the Pats did is typical and therefore ok. The difference is that Patriots have a documented history. Repeat offenders typically get greater punishments.

I was under the impression that he was simply trying to make the point that there is never a single hint or shred of outrage...or even awareness...when similar questions or comparable situations arise about other teams activities. He wasn't saying ,"it's ok every team does it'....he was asking why nobody seems to even pretend to care unless it's the big bad New England Patriots doing it.

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Actually the article mentioned that they were heating them in game. Also physics says PV = nRT. Physics also say one needs to add more air to ones tires in winter time. If you ever have done that, or seen your tire low in the winter, you understand how a change in temperate can effect the pressure inside of a contained volume without the addition or removal of gas.

So heating then expands the ball, this making it tighter, larger, and harder to grip. He asked about how deflating them is any different than warming them. It's a lot different.

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http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/2sxul5/deflategate_could_the_weather_have_an_effect_on/

ABOVE EDIT: Switched the link to direct to the actual reddit discussion and not to a history of the redditer I've quoted below.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/sports/football/eli-mannings-footballs-are-months-in-making.html?_r=0

So it's okay to have a team spend months prepping a ball with "semi-secret" techniques, but if a single ball comes up below inflated specs at half-time the Patriots are crucified again as horrible cheaters.

Utter overreaction.

Semi secret? The article said it's in EVERY nfl game. Here's a secret, it's not secret if everyone does it.

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A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument

"But sure, go ahead and blame others for your teams cheating. Real classy, and real dumb."

please, show me where I blamed others. Everything is in the thread.

Cool, you can use Wikipedia. So you were just nonchalantly pointing out other people tampering with balls, and then saying every nfl team has cheated, with no proof, all for * and giggles? With no real point? Is that what you're telling me? Then why say anything if you have no point?

You had a slight point with the warming, but not the cheating comment. So you are basically being a typical woman who makes passive aggressive comments that you can deny if someone calls you out on it. Congrats, your ignored.

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I was under the impression that he was simply trying to make the point that there is never a single hint or shred of outrage...or even awareness...when similar questions or comparable situations arise about other teams activities. He wasn't saying ,"it's ok every team does it'....he was asking why nobody seems to even pretend to care unless it's the big bad New England Patriots doing it.

He also said everyone had cheated in the nfl. With no proof. What was the point in that? That's the typical defense for people who get caught.

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So heating then expands the ball, this making it tighter, larger, and harder to grip. He asked about how deflating them is any different than warming them. It's a lot different.

 

I am not concerned with how the ball benefits from being overinflated or underinflated.   To me it is not an issue.  The main issue has everything to do with the fact that they were either above or below the specs.   If someone did it intentionally, were the balls victim of circumstance (had to get my Curly Howard quote in there), that is where they inflated in a 70 degree room just above the spec and take out into the cold air of Foxboro, and how does the NFL handle it in game and could (did) the NFL be on notice and what did they do about it, and lastly, what are the penalties.

 

Whether it is over or under inflated is not really an issue for me as either one is a violation.  For me, is there an explanation outside of intentionally tampering and could/should the refs been on notice in game and should not they have done something about it.  In another words, the NFL caught the issue in game and told the teams to fix it.   And also like D13, the Minn was not a national issue.  

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Why all these great physics didnt apply to any teams outside Foxboro

Suddenly, we are seeing a lot of scientists here and coincidentally all are from NE :).

 

Why do you think that is? Is it so surprising to you that Patriot fans might like to inject a little reality check into all this sensationalism-driven witch hunt? I suppose Colt fans just sat back in mature serenity when accusations of the Colts pumping in crowd noise was surfacing.

 

For what it's worth, it is now being reported that Bob Kravitz' source is none other than Jim Irsay himself.

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I was under the impression that he was simply trying to make the point that there is never a single hint or shred of outrage...or even awareness...when similar questions or comparable situations arise about other teams activities. He wasn't saying ,"it's ok every team does it'....he was asking why nobody seems to even pretend to care unless it's the big bad New England Patriots doing it.

 

 

You're really going to make me cry with this persecution stuff. Please stop....

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Why do you think that is? Is it so surprising to you that Patriot fans might like to inject a little reality check into all this sensationalism-driven witch hunt? I suppose Colt fans just sat back in mature serenity when accusations of the Colts pumping in crowd noise was surfacing.

For what it's worth, it is now being reported that Bob Kravitz' source is none other than Jim Irsay himself.

not much because what Kravitz reported was true. The league is investigating the Pats for this. That's all he said, well that and that it didn't impact the outcome of the game which is also true. Oh he did say one more thing that the Colts officials were gone when he heard this which would lead me to believe Irsay was gone too, so where did you hear his source was Irsay, can you post a link to it? I think some here would be interested to read that as I have not heard that although I'll admit I haven't paid much attention to this past last night.

Anyways, You guys, Pats fans in general, keep trying to make Kravitz out to be the bad guy when all he did was report the Pats were being investigated for this first. He didn't say the Pats are doing this hey league you should look at this. Like I said before there is a difference between reporting what you heard and accusing someone of doing something.

As for your other point I laughed when I heard the Colts were being accused of pumping in crowd noise, I know didn't go the Pats message board and argue with Pats fans about it. I didn't care what they thought on the subject.

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Hillarious, no matter what happens now this season will be tainted for the pats!

DEFLATE-GATE...

& i cant say enough how funny it is to see tons of pats fans celebrating their sb birth by defending their teams shady transgressions on a rivals message board.

 

Well, it certainly gives patriots haters something to roll with but honestly its just sour grapes. "You only won the SB because you deflated the balls against indy in that 45-7 blowout!!!" Yeah.......I can't even say that with a straight face without feeling like a m oron. Besides, none of this is even proven yet. Its all speculation started by members of the colts I believe. So nothing is tainted, yet.

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Well, it certainly gives patriots haters something to roll with but honestly its just sour grapes. "You only won the SB because you deflated the balls against indy in that 45-7 blowout!!!" Yeah.......I can't even say that with a straight face without feeling like a m oron. Besides, none of this is even proven yet. Its all speculation started by members of the colts I believe. So nothing is tainted, yet.

This argument seems silly willy to me...

who is even saying  "You only won the SB because..."???

All I said is the whole thing is funny...

 

& you shouldn't be able to talk about this with a straight face because the whole thing has great comedy already built in with the great names that this "investigation" warrants...

be it DEFLATE-GATE, or BALLSGATE, or BALL TAMPERING, Bill B.'s Floppy Balls, whatever!!!

any name given to this ordeal is comedic gold...

 

For the casual fan cheating equals cheating, I live on the west coast where 99% of the population didn't have a vested interest in the AFCC game, but they were surely talking about DEFLATE -GATE today, so the perception of pats as cheaters gets propagated further... that's tainted

 

the perception of the pats is that they cheat, bend the rules, however small, to get the upper hand...

not sure who thinks the outcome of the game was seriously effected by floppy balls, but regardless of the outcome of the investigation, the seed is planted (on national media) and the idea that pats=cheaters gets propagated further, over something as minor as deflating balls none the less...

 

silliness, but funny & awesome...

 

Haters gonna hate,

cheaters gonna cheat,

and ball tamperers are gonna tamper some balls...

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This argument seems silly willy to me...

who is even saying  "You only won the SB because..."???

All I said is the whole thing is funny...

 

& you shouldn't be able to talk about this with a straight face because the whole thing has great comedy already built in with the great names that this "investigation" warrants...

be it DEFLATE-GATE, or BALLSGATE, or BALL TAMPERING, Bill B.'s Floppy Balls, whatever!!!

any name given to this ordeal is comedic gold...

 

For the casual fan cheating equals cheating, I live on the west coast where 99% of the population didn't have a vested interest in the AFCC game, but they were surely talking about DEFLATE -GATE today, so the perception of pats as cheaters gets propagated further... that's tainted

 

the perception of the pats is that they cheat, bend the rules, however small, to get the upper hand...

not sure who thinks the outcome of the game was seriously effected by floppy balls, but regardless of the outcome of the investigation, the seed is planted (on national media) and the idea that pats=cheaters gets propagated further, over something as minor as deflating balls none the less...

 

silliness, but funny & awesome...

 

Haters gonna hate,

cheaters gonna cheat,

and ball tamperers are gonna tamper some balls...

 

 

I also live on the west coast and it's on every news channel every hour on the hour...LOL. Really comical stuff to see woman reporting this who don't even know what a football looks like. What's really sad in this thread is some of these guys are pouting tears all over their screens over this. It's hysterical ... they blame Kravitz plus they are pulling stuff out of their coolies saying this was all started by the Colts. When you ask them for a source or link on that , they go hide under their beds.

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Well, it certainly gives patriots haters something to roll with but honestly its just sour grapes. "You only won the SB because you deflated the balls against indy in that 45-7 blowout!!!" Yeah.......I can't even say that with a straight face without feeling like a m oron. Besides, none of this is even proven yet. Its all speculation started by members of the colts I believe. So nothing is tainted, yet.

 

Oooooooo.. "started by members of the Colts" HA HA HA. You wouldn't have a link or a source on that one ... would you ?  it's like we used to say in poker.. "it's only cheating if you get caught." 

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Oooooooo.. "started by members of the Colts" HA HA HA. You wouldn't have a link or a source on that one ... would you ?  it's like we used to say in poker.. "it's only cheating if you get caught." 

 

It's been reported everywhere that this was started by the Colts after the interception of Brady.

Want a link? Here's one: http://m.wcvb.com/sports/nfl-investigating-after-colts-player-thought-ball-was-under-inflated/30798932?utm_campaign=WCVB+Channel+5+Boston+-+wcvb5&utm_medium=FBPAGE&utm_source=Social

This doesn't change anything, except for those who kept saying "it was the NFL that launched this investigation, the Colts had nothing to do with it, so there's clearly something to this if the NFL is investigating on its own." The NFL has to investigate this, whether or not there is any merit to the Colts' claims. So this could all be much ado about nothing, or it could be the Patriots bending the rules. But this was started by members of the Colts.

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http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2015/01/report_patriots_may_have_deflated_footballs_for_af.html?p1=menu_sports_main

 

Colts are the ones that alerted the refs that the ball seemed deflated after the Colts pick.

 

As per WCVB-TV Channel 5 sports anchor Mike Lynch, Colts linebacker D'Qwell Jackson, who intercepted Tom Brady in the second quarter of Sunday's game, told coach Chuck Pagano that the ball felt deflated.

Newsday's Bob Glauber, citing "a person familiar with the background of the matter," also reported that Jackson "gave the ball to a member of the Colts' equipment staff, who noticed the ball seemed underinflated and the notified" Pagano. Glauber reports that Colts general manager Ryan Grigson was then notified in the press box and contacted NFL director of football operations Mike Kensil, who then communicated the information to the officials on the field at halftime.

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Exactly.

But part of me thinks that Belicheck does these kinds of things just to get under the skin of everyone. Not just the opponent...but everyone. Really, did the balls really need to be deflated to win? (if true) Its like his running gag he's had by putting Brady on the injury report when he got called out for not doing it years ago.

From my point of view, the whole thing is kind of childish and just casts a negative light on the sport. That's why if there is some meat to the story, the NFL should just be serious about doing something and end the childish behavior already.

It is interesting you post this. I was listening to the radio last night and a Bears fan called in and said back when the Bears were winning the 80's they had a bad boy rep similar to the Raiders. He was saying the fans should embrace it because what a guy like Bill does to an opponent is he gets him thinking about everything ... every small detail of minutia and it gets into their heads.  

 

I believe when the Colts intercepted the ball it was 14-0 Pats and all of a sudden the Colts player says hmmm this ball feels kind of flat. He goes to his equipment manager who tells Pagano and then goes to Grigson who calls the NFL. So right there in the second quarter, the Colts are already thinking did the Pats do something? I wonder if they were playing a different team if the Colts player says anything at all but with the Pats you have to question that and it gets the wheels churning. I am not saying it necessarily threw the Colts off so bad that it caused them to lose the way they did as it was 14-0 at the time but it got them thinking and perhaps mentally off their game.

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If this is true, I have absolutely 0 respect for that organization. Purely disgusting. Once a cheater always a cheater.

 

Breaking: A league source tells me the NFL is investigating the possibility the Patriots deflated footballs Sunday night. More to come.

— Bob Kravitz (@bkravitz)

January 19, 2015

 

I'm told at one point the officials took a ball out of play and weighed it. Should hear more tomorrow on this subject.

— Bob Kravitz (@bkravitz)

January 19, 2015

 

Told if a league investigation confirms deflated footballs it will result in lost draft picks. Stay tuned.

— Bob Kravitz (@bkravitz)

January 19, 2015

 

 

proves  that cheating too win works .  are as saying goes win at all cost is  no diff in real wars. 

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I mentioned this earlier. That's his first interception of the year and it was pretty unnatural the way he did it, but he made it easy.

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