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Did Peyton Manning get John Fox fired? Or Elway ego?

sweetsurrender

By sweetsurrender
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sweetsurrender

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I was watching Inside the NFL last night and they began with asking about what should happen to a HC that has won 46 games in four seasons, four divisional titles and made a Super Bowl. Phil Simms said, "he should be paid 10 million a year." And they all started laughing.

 

This got me thinking. Was John Fox fired because Peyton Manning once again came up small in the post-season? Sure seems that way. I mean even Marvin Lewis has a job without one post-season win and yet his Fox out of a job after securing the 1 or 2 seeds each of the past 3 seasons and making it to the SB. He also won the West with Tebow and a playoff game.

 

But besides Manning, this IMO comes down to Elway's ego. I get he wants to win the super bowl as that is the goal of every team but he put such a ridiculous emphasis on it that he now fired his HC and also has to find a DC. I am not sure how is any different than Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones who have been trying to "buy" a ring for years and years. You can't do it the NFL. The Denver writers are saying there was zero chemistry in the locker room this year among the million dollar players that Elway brought in. Perhaps, he is thinking back to his last two SBs when Denver could only put a great team around him by circumventing the cap. 

 

Who does he think he is going to hire right now that will be better than John Fox? Adam Gase? It makes no sense and I don't blame Manning if he decides to hang it up. Not sure I would want to come back either.

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Susie Q Walk On

Susie Q

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I was watching Inside the NFL last night and they began with asking about what should happen to a HC that has won 46 games in four seasons, four divisional titles and made a Super Bowl. Phil Simms said, "he should be paid 10 million a year." And they all started laughing.

 

This got me thinking. Was John Fox fired because Peyton Manning once again came up small in the post-season? Sure seems that way. I mean even Marvin Lewis has a job without one post-season win and yet his Fox out of a job after securing the 1 or 2 seeds each of the past 3 seasons and making it to the SB. He also won the West with Tebow and a playoff game.

 

But besides Manning, this IMO comes down to Elway's ego. I get he wants to win the super bowl as that is the goal of every team but he put such a ridiculous emphasis on it that he now fired his HC and also has to find a DC. I am not sure how is any different than Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones who have been trying to "buy" a ring for years and years. You can't do it the NFL. The Denver writers are saying there was zero chemistry in the locker room this year among the million dollar players that Elway brought in. Perhaps, he is thinking back to his last two SBs when Denver could only put a great team around him by circumventing the cap. 

 

Who does he think he is going to hire right now that will be better than John Fox? Adam Gase? It makes no sense and I don't blame Manning if he decides to hang it up. Not sure I would want to come back either.

If your going to make the statement that Denver writers are posting no chemistry in locker you need to post a link to that information.   :)        As for the NFL you can't always believe everything they say.  IMO   

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theanarchist Walk On

theanarchist

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I was watching Inside the NFL last night and they began with asking about what should happen to a HC that has won 46 games in four seasons, four divisional titles and made a Super Bowl. Phil Simms said, "he should be paid 10 million a year." And they all started laughing.

 

This got me thinking. Was John Fox fired because Peyton Manning once again came up small in the post-season? Sure seems that way. I mean even Marvin Lewis has a job without one post-season win and yet his Fox out of a job after securing the 1 or 2 seeds each of the past 3 seasons and making it to the SB. He also won the West with Tebow and a playoff game.

 

But besides Manning, this IMO comes down to Elway's ego. I get he wants to win the super bowl as that is the goal of every team but he put such a ridiculous emphasis on it that he now fired his HC and also has to find a DC. I am not sure how is any different than Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones who have been trying to "buy" a ring for years and years. You can't do it the NFL. The Denver writers are saying there was zero chemistry in the locker room this year among the million dollar players that Elway brought in. Perhaps, he is thinking back to his last two SBs when Denver could only put a great team around him by circumventing the cap. 

 

Who does he think he is going to hire right now that will be better than John Fox? Adam Gase? It makes no sense and I don't blame Manning if he decides to hang it up. Not sure I would want to come back either.

I think he wants Kubiak. Whether Kubiak is willing to leave Baltimore is yet to be seen. Elway knows his window for a SB is closing. Manning will come back for one more year. He got hurt at the end of the season, I mean the guy was hurt. I've never seen Peyton not be able to move like he was Sunday. He could barely move to hand the ball off. Unfortunately(fortunate for us colts fans) this definitely hurt Manning play at the end of the season.

 

But I think Elway knows that its all or nothing right now. I think Fox wanted out in Denver and the rumors were flying before the game. How do you win a playoff game with stuff like this going thru your team? The reason he wants out? Hard to say. No doubt Elway has an ego, most guys who are that competitive do.

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Yehoodi Walk On

Yehoodi

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It was my understanding that the split up in Denver was mutual but it was born out of the issue that Elway and Fox could not come to an agreement on how to build/run a team to win a SB.   I took that statement by Elway that Fox had a way in which he wanted the team to be run/coach the team to win and Elway had a different approach.  The fact that they have not won a SB gave Elway the necessary facts to think his way was correct.  

 

If Fox gets another coaching job we might get some idea if his ideas has some merit.

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oldunclemark Walk On

oldunclemark

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Mike Klis (Denver writer) was on Chicago radio yesterday..

..and he said that Fox has been looking to get out and looking at Chicago since midseason..

....He saw long term stability in Chicago (debatable) but he didnt see that in Denver..which is Super Bowl or bust every year until peyton leaves..

.Bottom line.(according tot eh Denver writer) ..Fox wasnt fired...He wanted to go and Elway wasn't happy with results and didnt beg him to stay

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Cnr324 Walk On

Cnr324

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Fox got himself fired that's why he's no longer the head coach of the Denver Broncos . Fox is a good coach but he isn't a great coach and his ultra conservative style will never win a Super Bowl . Mincey who was a Bronco last year stated that Fox never got the team inspired before the Super Bowl and how Seattle had just a different energy than Denver. I was not surprised when I read that all .

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GoPats

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There's no evidence either way but it sure feels like it came down to an "either/or" type of situation. I realize that's speculative, but you don't generally see 12-4 teams coming off a Super Bowl fire their coach. Not sure I'm buying the "mutual parting of ways" thing. That's how you fire someone gently, giving them the opportunity to claim they had a say in it. 

 

Whether it was an injury or not, Manning just couldn't make the throws he needed to make last weekend. I don't know that the loss was truly on Fox or not. I don't think much of him as a coach, but when your QB is limited physically, it's hard to win. To some extent Fox has been the scapegoat here. 

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jvan1973 Ring of Honor

jvan1973

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There's no evidence either way but it sure feels like it came down to an "either/or" type of situation. I realize that's speculative, but you don't generally see 12-4 teams coming off a Super Bowl fire their coach. Not sure I'm buying the "mutual parting of ways" thing. That's how you fire someone gently, giving them the opportunity to claim they had a say in it.

Whether it was an injury or not, Manning just couldn't make the throws he needed to make last weekend. I don't know that the loss was truly on Fox or not. I don't think much of him as a coach, but when your QB is limited physically, it's hard to win. To some extent Fox has been the scapegoat here.

Why wouldn't fox say otherwise if be was fired? He can't be held accountable by the Broncos. If he was fired, why not say so?

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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There's no evidence either way but it sure feels like it came down to an "either/or" type of situation. I realize that's speculative, but you don't generally see 12-4 teams coming off a Super Bowl fire their coach. Not sure I'm buying the "mutual parting of ways" thing. That's how you fire someone gently, giving them the opportunity to claim they had a say in it. 

 

Whether it was an injury or not, Manning just couldn't make the throws he needed to make last weekend. I don't know that the loss was truly on Fox or not. I don't think much of him as a coach, but when your QB is limited physically, it's hard to win. To some extent Fox has been the scapegoat here. 

Pretty much my sentiments as well. I think it was a PR move on Elway's part but Denver is in a tough situation with this SB or bust mindset. Not sure what HC would want to sign up for that especially with Manning returning laying in the balance.

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MJD42 Walk On

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In the words of Bugs Bunny, Elway is a maroon. Did you hear his PC this week where he said first I want to thank John Elway, I mean John Fox. lol. Not sure if there is an exec more full of himself. 

 

In terms of his SB or bust mentality, that was dead the moment he signed Manning. Why on earthy he thought he could do what Polian did for years and just stock pile talent around Manning and that would somehow magically land a trophy makes no sense. It's not like he did have over a decade of Manning's playoff bow out's to see he is not the guy to get you to the promised land. I agree with the OP that Elway is mirroring both Snyder and Jones in his quest for the Lombardi. His last two draft classes have not been good and he has gone all out on FAs. Pretty much a recipe for what just happened this season.

 

Fox is a very good coach. He took lousy Jake Delhomme to the SB and Tim Tebow to a playoff victory. I don't see Elway getting anyone nearly as accomplished as Fox to take the helm. And of course IF Manning does retire than he is looking at .500 seasons at best with Brock or maybe worse. Word is Elway is not every high on him either. Big surprise.

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BloodyChamp Walk On

BloodyChamp

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If you fired Elway you could ask the same questions that people are asking about firing Fox. They have the same record as Broncos coach and GM.

I can tell as well everybody else that Fox has lost his edge, but I thought that was the point of his being in Denver where Peyton was the real coach. I think it's a huge mistake if they're planning on Peyton continuing. Him and some coach who is actually going to coach will get real ugly, real fast.

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dgambill

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In the words of Bugs Bunny, Elway is a maroon. Did you hear his PC this week where he said first I want to thank John Elway, I mean John Fox. lol. Not sure if there is an exec more full of himself. 

 

In terms of his SB or bust mentality, that was dead the moment he signed Manning. Why on earthy he thought he could do what Polian did for years and just stock pile talent around Manning and that would somehow magically land a trophy makes no sense. It's not like he did have over a decade of Manning's playoff bow out's to see he is not the guy to get you to the promised land. I agree with the OP that Elway is mirroring both Snyder and Jones in his quest for the Lombardi. His last two draft classes have not been good and he has gone all out on FAs. Pretty much a recipe for what just happened this season.

 

Fox is a very good coach. He took lousy Jake Delhomme to the SB and Tim Tebow to a playoff victory. I don't see Elway getting anyone nearly as accomplished as Fox to take the helm. And of course IF Manning does retire than he is looking at .500 seasons at best with Brock or maybe worse. Word is Elway is not every high on him either. Big surprise.

No offense but building around PM is and was just as good a plan as anyone else in the NFL...not named the New England Patriots. I mean not every team is as fortunate to have a decade and half of stability with a HOF qb like Tom Brady. How else do you get there....you draft a rookie.....well outside of Indy and Seattle lucking into RW there aren't that many rookie qbs that can step in and do what PM has for that team. Granted it didn't work but they were SB contenders....and yes that isn't the ultimate prize but really thats all you can ask for as GM. Give your team a shot. So many things happen...injuries...lucky bounces...catches etc. You guys know that. I mean its been over 10 yrs since your last SB win. Nobody goes around saying its Brady's fault and you built around a QB that can't get it done in over a decade do they? Of course not...its hog wosh. Peyton has been to 3 sbs in the last 8 years and won 1. Sure that isn't Tom Brady or Joe Montana but it isn't like the guy is a loser. Not only that but most importantly the guy rubs off on his teammates. He teaches by his example of how to be a professional...how to prepare...how to expect greatness....and don't think DT, Decker, JT, Sanders etc etc all were just great wide receivers before he got there. They had raw talent and physical gifts certainly...not unlike thousands of other players in the NFL...but Peyton put in the work with them...teaching them how to run routes, read defenses, make adjustments...he didn't make those players...their hard work did but there is no doubt he has affected the whole organization with his winning attitude. That is how you build a winning organization is it not....is that not what Tom Brady and Belicheck do in Boston? This experiement etc wasn't a bad idea or even a failure. Not trying is the only way you truely fail. You only fail when you give up or don't try. Getting a no in a sales job isn't a failure....so is losing in sports...its a process...its a result...but it isn't failure...

 

As for the Fox thing....as most have said I think they differed on the expectations and how to build and operate the team. I don't think it had to do with Manning in the least bit. He didn't lose that game...the Broncos did....in almost every position on the field they didn't win their battles. They had a lot to overcome with Peyton's injury but they could have won that game...and it didn't get done. I think Fox wanted out and Elway was only too happy to say ok once he saw again the lack of adjustments being done....and the lack of preparation (heard about it before the SB) to get his team ready or have a plan to attack the Colts. There is no doubt Elway is going for broke...and thats ok. I want my GM to put a winner on the field. But he doesn't really have great options....Osweiler isn't going to likely get him that. I don't know who is on the list of coaches but that doesn't mean he can't find a good coach or a better fit for the organization. Perhaps he thought the team is in transition and its best to go younger etc. Fox had a great defense in Carolina and one in Denver for most of his success. But he was far from innovative or even a risk taker....and maybe that just didn't suit Elway. I still think he just wasn't happy with the lack of urgency in the building etc...and the tone the team had with Fox as their coach. I've heard they like Quinn for Seattle and maybe he wants that energy that Seattle plays with...idk...but I don't think that team was dead in the water from the start...nor are they doomed because Fox is gone.

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dgambill

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If you fired Elway you could ask the same questions that people are asking about firing Fox. They have the same record as Broncos coach and GM.

I can tell as well everybody else that Fox has lost his edge, but I thought that was the point of his being in Denver where Peyton was the real coach. I think it's a huge mistake if they're planning on Peyton continuing. Him and some coach who is actually going to coach will get real ugly, real fast.

You have evidence of this being true? Peyton has seemed very coachable....I mean his OC is even younger than him and he has taken a lot from Gase. Granted if they are oil and water no doubt no coach/QB is going to work well but I see no reason to think differently or assume anything as you seem willing to do. So many people go around saying or repeating hearsay about Peyton and yet only a very few people know the truth..and yet they seem to not agree with your accessment. PM....the same guy that even gets along with Bill Belicheck at pro bowl and other meetings and loves discussing football to anyone with an ear and a brain? No doubt Peyton likes to control the offense and tempo etc but I have never heard the guy come out and diss a coach or even undermine their authority. He respects them especially if they have earned that and will help him get better or get to his ultimate goal of another SB.

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ReMeDy

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In the words of Bugs Bunny, Elway is a maroon. Did you hear his PC this week where he said first I want to thank John Elway, I mean John Fox. lol. Not sure if there is an exec more full of himself. 

 

Then immediately five seconds later, he says, "On behalf of Pat Bowlen, Joe Ellis, and... myself..." On behalf of himself? He should have said, "On behalf of Pat Bowlen and Joe Ellis, I want to..."

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BOTT Walk On

BOTT

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Then immediately five seconds later, he says, "On behalf of Pat Bowlen, Joe Ellis, and... myself..." On behalf of himself? He should have said, "On behalf of Pat Bowlen and Joe Ellis, I want to..."

Yeah, those Stanford grads are usually pretty dumb.....

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NewColtsFan Ring of Honor

NewColtsFan

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I was watching Inside the NFL last night and they began with asking about what should happen to a HC that has won 46 games in four seasons, four divisional titles and made a Super Bowl. Phil Simms said, "he should be paid 10 million a year." And they all started laughing.

 

This got me thinking. Was John Fox fired because Peyton Manning once again came up small in the post-season? Sure seems that way. I mean even Marvin Lewis has a job without one post-season win and yet his Fox out of a job after securing the 1 or 2 seeds each of the past 3 seasons and making it to the SB. He also won the West with Tebow and a playoff game.

 

But besides Manning, this IMO comes down to Elway's ego. I get he wants to win the super bowl as that is the goal of every team but he put such a ridiculous emphasis on it that he now fired his HC and also has to find a DC. I am not sure how is any different than Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones who have been trying to "buy" a ring for years and years. You can't do it the NFL. The Denver writers are saying there was zero chemistry in the locker room this year among the million dollar players that Elway brought in. Perhaps, he is thinking back to his last two SBs when Denver could only put a great team around him by circumventing the cap. 

 

Who does he think he is going to hire right now that will be better than John Fox? Adam Gase? It makes no sense and I don't blame Manning if he decides to hang it up. Not sure I would want to come back either.

 

To answer the OP's question in the header,  I'd say.....   neither.

 

Peyton didn't get Fox fired.    And Elway's ego didn't make the decision.    

 

It was time for a divorce.    Fox and Elway disagreed on more issues than they agreed on and at that point,  it's time to go separate ways.

 

Fox may, or may not be a great coach,  but he's better than some here would admit to.    He's taken two teams to the Super Bowl.  Most coaches can't make that claim.    And he did one with Jake DeLhomme at QB.

 

Fox did a great job at Denver,  but it was time for a change.    Sometimes that's just necessary.....

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NewColtsFan Ring of Honor

NewColtsFan

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In the words of Bugs Bunny, Elway is a maroon. Did you hear his PC this week where he said first I want to thank John Elway, I mean John Fox. lol. Not sure if there is an exec more full of himself. 

 

In terms of his SB or bust mentality, that was dead the moment he signed Manning. Why on earthy he thought he could do what Polian did for years and just stock pile talent around Manning and that would somehow magically land a trophy makes no sense. It's not like he did have over a decade of Manning's playoff bow out's to see he is not the guy to get you to the promised land. I agree with the OP that Elway is mirroring both Snyder and Jones in his quest for the Lombardi. His last two draft classes have not been good and he has gone all out on FAs. Pretty much a recipe for what just happened this season.

 

Fox is a very good coach. He took lousy Jake Delhomme to the SB and Tim Tebow to a playoff victory. I don't see Elway getting anyone nearly as accomplished as Fox to take the helm. And of course IF Manning does retire than he is looking at .500 seasons at best with Brock or maybe worse. Word is Elway is not every high on him either. Big surprise.

 

Congrats,  you get the award for one of the dumbest posts of the day.....

 

In the immortal words of our friend JSkinnz.....

 

Dear God.     :facepalm:

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BloodyChamp Walk On

BloodyChamp

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You have evidence of this being true? Peyton has seemed very coachable....I mean his OC is even younger than him and he has taken a lot from Gase. Granted if they are oil and water no doubt no coach/QB is going to work well but I see no reason to think differently or assume anything as you seem willing to do. So many people go around saying or repeating hearsay about Peyton and yet only a very few people know the truth..and yet they seem to not agree with your accessment. PM....the same guy that even gets along with Bill Belicheck at pro bowl and other meetings and loves discussing football to anyone with an ear and a brain? No doubt Peyton likes to control the offense and tempo etc but I have never heard the guy come out and diss a coach or even undermine their authority. He respects them especially if they have earned that and will help him get better or get to his ultimate goal of another SB.

Yes.

He had his own office in Indy and he ran the chalkboard at halftime. I'm not saying he goes Jeff George or angry Brett Favre on coaches but if you think he doesn't run a considerable amount of things, and that that is a main reason he keeps playing, you're mistaken.

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jvan1973 Ring of Honor

jvan1973

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Elway is very impatient..by nature ....he knows Peyton has 2 years left at best

..and he wants to win for the Denver owner..(who hired him and) who is in poor health.

He's doing everything he can to win and he knows time is short...I commend that

Why do you say he is inpatient by nature?

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oldunclemark Walk On

oldunclemark

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Why do you say he is inpatient by nature?

there was a long Sports Illustrated story on him recently and he can be demanding and impatient..

He owned a lot of csr dealreships in Denver but he got bored with it..and came back tot eh Brocnos when Mr. Bowden (the owner) asked..

he's a hands on guy and he wants the sense of urgency ..he can be pushy....apparently that's not Fox's nature at all..

I guess he was like that as a player, too..I was a big fan of his as a player....and I didn't know that...

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amfootball Walk On

amfootball

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How hilarious would it be if John Elway turned out like Jerry Jones? Wanting to prove he can win another SB worse than he did the SBs he's already won just so he can say he won them while calling all the shots.

He already does look like Jerry Jones except Jerry never fired a coach after three seasons of 12+ wins and a SB appearance ...

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MJD42 Walk On

MJD42

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Elway is very impatient..by nature ....he knows Peyton has 2 years left at best

..and he wants to win for the Denver owner..(who hired him and) who is in poor health.

He's doing everything he can to win and he knows time is short...I commend that

Manning does not have 2 years left. IF he plays next year you will more of what he looked like the last 8 games of the season which is an average to lousy QB.

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