Raiders may be interviewing Pep (Merge)

[NewColtsFan]

Amen.

 

If you need a clapper and fistpumper, Pagano's your guy!

 

However if the job requires any kind of technical football intellect, probably not your guy.

 

And you would know this.......     how?

[NewColtsFan]

No, he hasn't.  And, if anything, the rule is racist, not you. He's likely not considered to be a serious candidate at this point.  But you never know, he may knock the interview out of the park or more qualified candidates may not really be interested.

 

The rule is....    racist?!?!?

 

A rule designed to help deserving minorities deal with and overcome racism is racist?!?

 

For goodness sake......      

[DougDew]

Sorry - but I don't think the word likely helps your argument.

 

They are taking the time to interview him or at least ask permission to do so.  The only logical conclusion is that they are interested enough to talk with him and by definition a serious candidate - black, white, yellow or red.  

 

Further, he has both college and pro experience before coming to Indy and is highly thought of around the league.  This is not a courtesy thing.

That would be the ONLY logical conclusion if there wasn't a rule in place that is written specifically based on race.  Since there is a race-based rule in place, other conclusions are logical too.  That's the point of the rule, to force teams to look at minorities.  Its intellectually disingenuous to say that once the league writes a rule that forces teams to interview minority candidates, that minorities are interviewed only because of their qualifications.  That may or may not be the case. Whether or not people feel comfortable about being that honest about a situation is their problem.

 

You claimed that I said that I know what the Raiders are thinking.  I don't . I think its likely they think there are more qualified candidates than Pep, so relative to who they will interview, Pep is likely not a serious candidate at this point.  But they are also giving him the opportunity to do really well in the interview and maybe even place him in an OC position should someone else with better credentials also perform better in the interview.  I doubt that his resume alone would rank him high on their list compared to who else they could be looking at. 

 

And since I said likely, knowing that I know nothing about what the raiders are thinking, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he was hired.  Good for him, and good for the Colts, since Chud is already here.

[jskinnz]

That would be the ONLY logical conclusion if there wasn't a rule in place that is written specifically based on race.  Since there is a race-based rule in place, other conclusions are logical too.  That's the point of the rule, to force teams to look at minorities.  Its intellectually disingenuous to say that once the league writes a rule that forces teams to interview minority candidates, that minorities are interviewed only because of their qualifications.  That may or may not be the case. Whether or not people feel comfortable about being that honest about a situation is their problem.

 

You claimed that I said that I know what the Raiders are thinking.  I don't . I think its likely they think there are more qualified candidates than Pep, so relative to who they will interview, Pep is likely not a serious candidate at this point.  But they are also giving him the opportunity to do really well in the interview and maybe even place him in an OC position should someone else with better credentials also perform better in the interview.  I doubt that his resume alone would rank him high on their list compared to who else they could be looking at. 

 

And since I said likely, knowing that I know nothing about what the raiders are thinking, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he was hired.  Good for him, and good for the Colts, since Chud is already here.

 

Yeah, we are going nowhere good with this so I bail.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Thats cool give Chud the job if he goes!

[DougDew]

The rule is....    racist?!?!?

 

A rule designed to help deserving minorities deal with and overcome racism is racist?!?

 

For goodness sake......      

I didn't say the rule was racist.  I said the rule is more likely to be racist than the poster who responded in a nonfashionable way.

 

And your second sentence is complete dogma.  An assumption that was made to support the creation of the rule.

[DougDew]

Yeah, we are going nowhere good with this so I bail.

Agreed

[jmac_48]

Thats cool give Chud the job if he goes!

And why would Chud give up millions of dollars to be a OC.

He's still got some big bucks coming from the Browns if he does not accept a coaching position.

[Larry Horseman]

That would be the ONLY logical conclusion if there wasn't a rule in place that is written specifically based on race.  Since there is a race-based rule in place, other conclusions are logical too.  That's the point of the rule, to force teams to look at minorities.  Its intellectually disingenuous to say that once the league writes a rule that forces teams to interview minority candidates, that minorities are interviewed only because of their qualifications.  That may or may not be the case. Whether or not people feel comfortable about being that honest about a situation is their problem.

 

You claimed that I said that I know what the Raiders are thinking.  I don't . I think its likely they think there are more qualified candidates than Pep, so relative to who they will interview, Pep is likely not a serious candidate at this point.  But they are also giving him the opportunity to do really well in the interview and maybe even place him in an OC position should someone else with better credentials also perform better in the interview.  I doubt that his resume alone would rank him high on their list compared to who else they could be looking at. 

 

And since I said likely, knowing that I know nothing about what the raiders are thinking, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he was hired.  Good for him, and good for the Colts, since Chud is already here.

 

 

Your argument is completely invalid because they also have asked to interview Bowles. If they just wanted to satisfy the Rooney Rule, then they wouldn't be interviewing two black candidates. Whether you want to believe it or not, Pep is very well respected around the league, according to journalists like Mike Freeman who actually talk to NFL executives for a living, and we all should have expected him to get some HC interviews. Also, why in the world would the Raiders think Pep would leave the Colts OC position to take one with the Raiders (and why in the world would Pep want to do that)?

 

 

I didn't say the rule was racist.  I said the rule is more likely to be racist than the poster who responded in a nonfashionable way.

 

And your second sentence is complete dogma.  An assumption that was made to support the creation of the rule.

 

There is absolutely nothing racist about the Rooney Rule and therefore it is not more likely to be racist than anything. Also, the sentence isn't dogma it is the truth. I'm going to stop right here because this board isn't meant to discuss social issues. 

 

I'll leave it by saying that your comments are way off base in this thread. 

[csmopar]

I got mixed feelings about this. Not a giant fan of Pep or his play calling but do we really want our guys learning yet another offense. It'd be the 3rd or 4th offense in 4 years. That's not good

[BOTT]

Please take him!!! Then bring in Bill Callahan from Dallas or Tom Cable from Seattle to be our new OC. Or even just have Chudzinski be OC would also be better than Pep.

I would take either as offensive line coach, but not OC.

[BOTT]

Please take him!!! Then bring in Bill Callahan from Dallas or Tom Cable from Seattle to be our new OC. Or even just have Chudzinski be OC would also be better than Pep.

I would take either as offensive line coach, but not OC.

That's my concern as well. Peyton had Moore and consistency for years.

You want consistency with the right coordinator.....not sure Pep is that guy.

[NewColtsFan]

I didn't say the rule was racist.  I said the rule is more likely to be racist than the poster who responded in a nonfashionable way.

 

And your second sentence is complete dogma.  An assumption that was made to support the creation of the rule.

 

Why else would they create the rule?      Blacks weren't being hired as head coaches.    And they weren't even getting interviews.

 

What other reason was there to create the rule?

[Superman]

[MacDee1975]

And you would know this.......     how?

 

Ever hear him talk?  Compare it to when you hear Belichek talk.  There are many college coaches with higher football IQ's than Pagano.  Saban is smarter.  As is Meyer.  As is Malzahn.  As are many others.  In Pagano's 3 years as coach, have you ever heard him demonstrate any kind of technical, x's and o's knowledge?  I sure haven't.

 

Pagano's football accumen sounds like it's at the same level as your everyday, run of the mill high school coach.  Great cheerleader and clapper though, as i've said before.

[Jason_]

Ever hear him talk?  Compare it to when you hear Belichek talk.  There are many college coaches with higher football IQ's than Pagano.  Saban is smarter.  As is Meyer.  As is Malzahn.  As are many others.  In Pagano's 3 years as coach, have you ever heard him demonstrate any kind of technical, x's and o's knowledge?  I sure haven't.

 

Pagano's football accumen sounds like it's at the same level as your everyday, run of the mill high school coach.  Great cheerleader and clapper though, as i've said before.

 

you're basing your opinion of Pagano's football IQ on what he says to the media?  good call 

 

:slaphead:

[Larry Horseman]

Ever hear him talk?  Compare it to when you hear Belichek talk.  There are many college coaches with higher football IQ's than Pagano.  Saban is smarter.  As is Meyer.  As is Malzahn.  As are many others.  In Pagano's 3 years as coach, have you ever heard him demonstrate any kind of technical, x's and o's knowledge?  I sure haven't.

 

Pagano's football accumen sounds like it's at the same level as your everyday, run of the mill high school coach.  Great cheerleader and clapper though, as i've said before.

 

I'm not a Pagano homer (he has his faults for sure) but fans who think he doesn't understand x's and o's are fooling themselves. If you really think he is on the same level as an average high school coach, then, well, I'm not sure what to tell you. By nature of his college and NFL experience alone, he has far surpassed the HS coach level. Bash him all you want, but do it in a way that is legitimate and logical, please. 

[jskinnz]

Ever hear him talk?  Compare it to when you hear Belichek talk.  There are many college coaches with higher football IQ's than Pagano.  Saban is smarter.  As is Meyer.  As is Malzahn.  As are many others.  In Pagano's 3 years as coach, have you ever heard him demonstrate any kind of technical, x's and o's knowledge?  I sure haven't.

 

Pagano's football accumen sounds like it's at the same level as your everyday, run of the mill high school coach.  Great cheerleader and clapper though, as i've said before.

 

Dear God...

[ColtsConsistency]

IF Pep Hamilton was selected what type of Offense would Rob Chudzinski bring to the table, and would it be a more suitable approach scheme wise for the players? I've seen but highlights here and there of his one year stint in Cleveland.

Now I know this is off topic, but I have not cared for Greg Manusky's game planning.I understand not every game plan will be successful. However it comes across as inconsistent more times than not. Personally, I'd prefer to see him out. I may be wrong with opinion but that's all it is..my opinion. Anyone else?

[Superman]

Dear God...

 

+1000

[jskinnz]

Ever hear him talk?  Compare it to when you hear Belichek talk.  There are many college coaches with higher football IQ's than Pagano.  Saban is smarter.  As is Meyer.  As is Malzahn.  As are many others.  In Pagano's 3 years as coach, have you ever heard him demonstrate any kind of technical, x's and o's knowledge?  I sure haven't.

 

Pagano's football accumen sounds like it's at the same level as your everyday, run of the mill high school coach.  Great cheerleader and clapper though, as i've said before.

 

I need to revisit this piece of brilliance.  Please tell me when you have heard Belichick talk to determine his football IQ.  All I ever hear from him are mumbles and one word answers.  Clearly he is the best coach in the game but your premise that he is better than Pagano because of his ability to talk is faulty if not a down right funny premise.

[Superman]

IF Pep Hamilton was selected what type of Offense would Rob Chudzinski bring to the table, and would it be a more suitable approach scheme wise for the players? I've seen but highlights here and there of his one year stint in Cleveland.

Now I know this is off topic, but I have not cared for Greg Manusky's game planning.I understand not every game plan will be successful. However it comes across as inconsistent more times than not. Personally, I'd prefer to see him out. I may be wrong with opinion but that's all it is..my opinion. Anyone else?

 

The only games where the defense hasn't played well have been games against good QBs and good offensive lines. Manusky has made something out of nothing for most of the year, with no dominant pass rushers. We lost 19.5 sacks when Mathis went down, yet the team finished with just one fewer sack than last season. We shut down the passing game in 10 of the 16 games we played.

 

I think Manusky is fine. Not a world beater, but certainly not a sore spot...

[Larry Horseman]

The only games where the defense hasn't played well have been games against good QBs and good offensive lines. Manusky has made something out of nothing for most of the year, with no dominant pass rushers. We lost 19.5 sacks when Mathis went down, yet the team finished with just one fewer sack than last season. We shut down the passing game in 10 of the 16 games we played.

 

I think Manusky is fine. Not a world beater, but certainly not a sore spot...

 

Plus, I can only assume that Chuck still has a major say on the defensive side of the ball. 

[DougDew]

Your argument is completely invalid because they also have asked to interview Bowles. If they just wanted to satisfy the Rooney Rule, then they wouldn't be interviewing two black candidates. Whether you want to believe it or not, Pep is very well respected around the league, according to journalists like Mike Freeman who actually talk to NFL executives for a living, and we all should have expected him to get some HC interviews. Also, why in the world would the Raiders think would Pep leave the Colts OC position to take one with the Raiders (and why in the world would Pep want to do that)?

 

 

 

There is absolutely nothing racist about the Rooney Rule and therefore its not more likely to be racist than anything. Also, the sentence isn't dogma it is the truth. I'm going to stop right here because this board isn't meant to discuss social issues. 

 

I'll leave it by saying that your comments are way off base in this thread. 

I'm avoiding a long winded explanation.  But the rule was put in place to ensure that black candidates are not overlooked, because enough people made the assumption that since there were not "enough" black HCs relative to the number of ACs and players, it must have been because of racism.  Many people consider the lack of numbers as proof of intent.

 

The rule is in play because of the underlying thinking and assumptions that spawned the rule.  Management may think that that having no black HC candidates since Art Shell means its time to rotate to a black coach this time, for whatever reasons they think it would be a good thing.   Maybe its preconceived, for reasons the Oakland/LA CA team doesn't want to admit, that they want to hire a black HC, given that 100% of the names leaked early on are black coordinators.  Maybe that's why Spagnano was only the interim coach all year, and will be shut out of HC considerations, because management was waiting until a pool of qualified black coordinators were available, which there wasn't last year.

 

I've never been challenged so much about something that  I acknowledge is pure conjecture and merely a potential possibility.  People just need to settle down and open their minds to possibilities other than the ones that make them feel good.

 

Yes.  As long as there is a Rooney rule, there is a place for this stuff in the thread.

[Larry Horseman]

I'm avoiding a long winded explanation.  But the rule was put in place to ensure that black candidates are not overlooked, because enough people made the assumption that since there were not "enough" black HCs relative to the number of ACs and players, it must have been because of racism.  Many people consider the lack of numbers as proof of intent.

 

The rule is in play because of the underlying thinking and assumptions that spawned the rule.  Management may think that that having no black HC candidates since Art Shell means its time to rotate to a black coach this time, for whatever reasons they think it would be a good thing.   Maybe its preconceived, for reasons the Oakland/LA CA team doesn't want to admit, that they want to hire a black HC, given that 100% of the names leaked early on are black coordinators.  Maybe that's why Spagnano was only the interim coach all year, and will be shut out of HC considerations, because management was waiting until a pool of qualified black coordinators were available, which there wasn't last year.

 

I've never been challenged so much about something that  I acknowledge is pure conjecture and merely a potential possibility.  People just need to settle down and open their minds to possibilities other than the ones that make them feel good.

 

Yes.  As long as there is a Rooney rule, there is a place for this stuff in the thread.

 

The rule was put in place as a means to actively mitigate structural racism. You can choose to believe that structural racism is an assumption but by doing so you are perpetuating it. The rule isn't perfect and at times serves as a means of parading black coaches who have no chance of being hired in front of white GMs and owners, but it does much more good than bad from a racial justice perspective.

 

As for Pep, I again underscore the fact that many front office people in the NFL view him as a legitimate HC candidate. I actually think he could use a few more seasons as an OC but it doesn't really matter what I think because I don't get paid to hire and fire coaches in the NFL. 

[akcolt]

I love how people say stupid stuff like this.  Oakland has been bad, that goes without saying.  But with Al Davis gone, the franchise has gotten a bit more level headed in the front office.  They have multiple cornerstones on both sides of the ball in Mack and Carr.  They have some veteran presence, and are often a tough team for some to compete with.

 

That said, their previous head coach was simply not getting it done.  They had some good games with Sparano leading the pack, but I suspect the GM wants to hand select his guy if he's going to be on a short leash himself.  And if they were to hire Pep, who better to develop Carr than the guy who had Luck.  If offered the job, I bet Pep takes it in a heart beat.

And the board's IQ level drops

[peytonmanning18]

This reeks of a Rooney rule interview

[Dustin]

This reeks of a Rooney rule interview

Excep they have already tried to interview Todd Bowles.

[Superman]

Last year, Jim Caldwell was considered a Rooney Rule interview for the Lions. Next thing you know, he has the job, and now the Lions are in the playoffs.

[DougDew]

Why else would they create the rule?      Blacks weren't being hired as head coaches.    And they weren't even getting interviews.

 

What other reason was there to create the rule?

 

Not being qualified would be a reason to not get hired.  

 

Tom Flores, Art Shell, Tony Dungy, Ray Rhodes, Dennis Green, and Herm Edwards were all HC before the rule.  Its not that blacks weren't being hired, its the fact that the numbers didn't add up to what some thought they needed to add up to, at least that was the argument for the rule at the time.  There was never a list of qualified black candidates that were passed over and supported by each resume, it was just, a drive-by assumption of racism made because of numbers.

 

Anyway, the rule is what it is and its fine. 

 

 Its my opinion that Pep's race and other things, like having success in the bay area, has something to do with his interview as much as his resume.  The fans would have a certain comfort with Pep and Bowles for that matter if they followed the Cardinals at all.

 

Who can generate buzz and enthusiasm among the fans has something to do with who gets hired. 

[DougDew]

Last year, Jim Caldwell was considered a Rooney Rule interview for the Lions. Next thing you know, he has the job, and now the Lions are in the playoffs.

Good point.  But the personality of the previous coach reeked of the need for a stoic intellectual like Caldwell.  Given the reputation of the Lions at the time and Caldwell's personality, he was probably high on their list before he even interviewed.

 

The interview could have merely been a formality, like they are a lot of the times.

 

Pep could very well be high on the Raiders list, but I can't clearly see what it could be for.  His previous success at Stanford could be a driver, but that's a function of geography more than a resume. 

 

They'll probably hire Shanahan  before its all over.

[Superman]

Good point. But the personality of the previous coach reeked of the need for a stoic intellectual like Caldwell. Given the reputation of the Lions at the time and Caldwell's personality, he was probably high on their list before he even interviewed.

The interview could have merely been a formality, like they are a lot of the times.

Pep could very well be high on the Raiders list, but I can't clearly see what it could be for. His previous success at Stanford could be a driver, but that's a function of geography more than a resume.

They'll probably hire Shanahan before its all over.

I'm not saying Caldwell was only a Rooney interview. I'm saying people said he was only a Rooney interview, especially on this board.

Likewise, saying Pep is only a Rooney interview seems premature, if not totally misplaced, unnecessary, and maybe even false, given the fact that they've requested interviews with two minority candidates already.

[RomanianColtsFan]

I was excited when Pep was announced as Colts OC. I though we were going to get that cool Stanford running game combined with play action passing but now I admit it has been a let down for me.

I am fine with him staying but if he leaves that's fine too, it could be for the better you never know.

[DougDew]

I'm not saying Caldwell was only a Rooney interview. I'm saying people said he was only a Rooney interview, especially on this board.

Likewise, saying Pep is only a Rooney interview seems premature, if not totally misplaced, unnecessary, and maybe even false, given the fact that they've requested interviews with two minority candidates already.

I agree.  I wasn't a member of the board at the time, but my lurking experience tells me that unobjective people would probably make that claim based upon how Caldwell was treated on this board at the time.. after all, he wouldn't have been interviewed based upon his resume, so it must have been for race right?   I thought his personality was perfectly suited for the Lions at the time.

 

OTOH, I see no basis for why Pep would be high on the Raiders list.  Media reports that he is "well thought of" mean nothing. 

 

I don't know if I said that the Peps interview is to comply with Rooney.  I said that I don't see where he would be considered a serious candidate at this time.  I think the Raiders see a benefit to leaking a number of black candidates.  If they interview 5 black coordinators, and hire Shanahan, then its difficult to claim that the hiring was preconceived and they didn't consider a black candidate, or that they just tokenly interviewed one to comply with the letter of the law.  That would not go over too well in Oakland and LA.

 

Who knows, they may have to leak a number of names, because there maybe black candidates that don't want to interview with the Raiders, then how do they meet the rule if they don't get at least one?

 

Instead of people implying that I'm a racist whem I dare to offer objective possibilities when it comes to a racial topic, if someone can tell me why Pep would be high on someone's list relative to other coordinators, please inform the board.. 

 

BTW, how much input does an OC have in making starting oline decisions?

[CanuckColt]

Raiders meeting their Rooney rule obligations?

I hope not, but yeah, probably what it is.

[austriancolt]

I'm not a fan of Pep Hamilton sometimes his play callings are driving me crazy like the three consecutive runs in the Dallas game... Hope he get's the job! 

[Superman]

I agree.  I wasn't a member of the board at the time, but my lurking experience tells me that unobjective people would probably make that claim based upon how Caldwell was treated on this board at the time.. after all, he wouldn't have been interviewed based upon his resume, so it must have been for race right?   I thought his personality was perfectly suited for the Lions at the time.

 

OTOH, I see no basis for why Pep would be high on the Raiders list.  Media reports that he is "well thought of" mean nothing. 

 

I don't know if I said that the Peps interview is to comply with Rooney.  I said that I don't see where he would be considered a serious candidate at this time.  I think the Raiders see a benefit to leaking a number of black candidates.  If they interview 5 black coordinators, and hire Shanahan, then its difficult to claim that the hiring was preconceived and they didn't consider a black candidate, or that they just tokenly interviewed one to comply with the letter of the law.  That would not go over too well in Oakland and LA.

 

Who knows, they may have to leak a number of names, because there maybe black candidates that don't want to interview with the Raiders, then how do they meet the rule if they don't get at least one?

 

Instead of people implying that I'm a racist whem I dare to offer objective possibilities when it comes to a racial topic, if someone can tell me why Pep would be high on someone's list relative to other coordinators, please inform the board.. 

 

BTW, how much input does an OC have in making starting oline decisions?

 

Regarding Pep's qualifications for the Raiders job, it seems that you don't think he's a legitimate candidate, and so anything contrary is going to be dismissed by you. There have been reports that Pep would be a candidate for head jobs for months now. Suggesting that all those of those reports are meaningless seems unnecessarily stubborn.

 

And I say that because you've concocted this theory in which Pep's candidacy isn't serious. I never said that you are propping him up as just a Rooney candidate, but it's really starting to seem that way. If he were just a Rooney candidate, the Raiders wouldn't be asking for him and Bowles to interview. Neither of them can interview this week, so leaking names does nothing for the Raiders, nor does it meet the Rooney requirement. All the Raiders have to do is interview a bunch of people, however many they want, but at least one of them has to be a minority. Raiders fans don't care what race the coach is. "Just win, baby."

 

This entire angle is specious, IMO. The simplest explanation is the best one. 

 

I'm also not calling you racist, but you probably already know that I disagree with your viewpoint on this entire topic, so I'm not going there. I'd rather talk about football.

 

I think the input an OC has on the starting offensive line varies by team and situation. I don't know how the Colts made those decisions, and I think it's impossible to determine without serious insider access.

[Freenyfan102]

PLease TAKE HIM

[Superfly Jay]

Raiders meeting their Rooney rule obligations?[/quote

That wasn't even called for.

[04DarkShadowGT]

LOL at the folks saying Pep sucks.  Id hate to see how bad the coordinators of the other teams are when the guy leading one of the top offenses in scoring and yardage is lead by an OC that sucks lol.