The Center Situation (Merge)

[Valpo2004]

The long term issue now with Shipley is that he can only play C, where Harrison/Holmes can at least project to G too. 

 

I would say then let Harrison play guard, someplace where he can't turn the ball over or wreak the play again via a screwed up snap.

[ColtsLegacy]

PFF grades of the line last night from best to worst:

Reitz: +3.7 overall +2.2 pass +.8 run

Harrison: +1.3 overall -0.2 pass +1.9 run

AC: -0.5 overall -1.2 pass 0.4 run

Louis: -3.3 overal +0.7 pass -4.2 run

Cherilus -6.0 overall -4.7 pass -1.6 run

[Superman]

Isn't be on the pup and eligible to return in week 6?

 

After Week 6, so he can practice next week. We have two or three weeks before we have to activate him, I believe.

 

Doyle has been better than Havili, though, so I don't know if Havili gets activated any time soon, and I don't think he lasts on the roster, to be honest.

 

Nixon is also eligible to come back soon. Week 9, I think.

[Superman]

PFF grades of the line last night from best to worst:

Reitz: +3.7 overall +2.2 pass +.8 run

Harrison: +1.3 overall -0.2 pass +1.9 run

AC: -0.5 overall -1.2 pass 0.4 run

Louis: -3.3 overal +0.7 pass -4.2 run

Cherilus -6.0 overall -4.7 pass -1.6 run

 

I'm all about the youth, but Reitz is always good when he plays. He should be the first alternate at either guard spot, so long as he's healthy.

 

Now watch him go on IR later today...

[chad72]

PFF grades of the line last night from best to worst:

Reitz: +3.7 overall +2.2 pass +.8 run

Harrison: +1.3 overall -0.2 pass +1.9 run

AC: -0.5 overall -1.2 pass 0.4 run

Louis: -3.3 overal +0.7 pass -4.2 run

Cherilus -6.0 overall -4.7 pass -1.6 run

 

Reitz, I noticed, was on the money with his double teams with little confusion whenever Watt lined up inside, he worked great together with both Castanzo and Harrison, IMO. The Texans realized that and then they started lining Watt against Cherilus more, which is when they made some dents against our O-line.

[SteelCityColt]

I would say then let Harrison play guard, someplace where he can't turn the ball over or wreak the play again via a screwed up snap.

 

I'd argue then when fully fit we have 2 decent Guards so it's better to bed Harrison into C as that's where he will most likely play. 

[Smash Mouth]

and what ceiling is that? what has shipley done in the first four weeks to deserve being benched?

Deserve's got nothing to do with it (Clint Eastwood in Forgiven)......Shipley came in and did his job. Harrison will be ok. He made less mistakes last night than this past Sunday...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

[austriancolt]

Harrison looks decent just needs more experience and develop some chemistry with #12

[CroatianColtsFan21]

I wish I could know know why this regime does this. But even AQ had a clever (Or Snarky?) tweet about his own play time last night

https://twitter.com/aqshipley/status/520454879006171137

cheeky little bugger

[dw49]

I'm all about the youth, but Reitz is always good when he plays. He should be the first alternate at either guard spot, so long as he's healthy.

 

Now watch him go on IR later today...

 

 

Not trying to break groin , but did you and I have a disagreement about how Cherlius looked in the preseason ? I think I was worried and you were not ? I'm too lazy to go back and search and my memory really does slip now and then. In any event , this guy is struggling every game in both the run game and pass protection. Wonder if maybe his knee is acting up ? Never was great in run game but was solid in protecting the QB

[YOUR GM]

This is JJ Watt lined up across from him, by the way

 

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/2383-untitled/

 

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/2384-untitled2/

 

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/2385-untitled3/

 

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/2386-untitled4/

 

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/2387-untitled5/

 

 

 

Psh, yeah, this Harrison guy sucks...

 

 

 

  

[csmopar]

I was just rewatching the game on DVR and if you look, after watt scores, Luck walks up to harrison, tap his own chest and mouth what looks to say that was me. So I wouldn't put all the blame on Harrison.

[Jason_]

We didn't seem to have any problem with center/QB exchanges with Shipley, and we were averaging well over 100 yards on the ground with him in there.  So tell me again how Harrison is a better run blocker not to mention a better option for the team?

 

We also had Thornton and Mewhort at the Guard spots instead of Louis and Reitz.  

[theanarchist]

I thought the pass protection overall was pretty solid last night considering the opponent. The run blocking at times was really poor. I think Harrison is not a strong run blocker but I have to admit I didn't study him a lot. The snap count mistakes have to get fixed. it almost cost us the game.

[theanarchist]

We also had Thornton and Mewhort at the Guard spots instead of Louis and Reitz.  

Good point

[dw49]

what has player A done to prove hes better then player B. I understand im not in the colts faculty and I dont have insider information on what pagano and his staff sees that makes harrison our best option at C, but when you lose your job abruptly not because of play or injury then something is up 

 

 

Did Shipley actually have that job ? The way I remember it was Holmes was No1 on depth chart and Harrison was #2. Both guys were injured and Shipley was signed off the waiver wire. He was perceived by many to play well but replaced by a guy that was actually higher on the depth chart than he was. I guess some could argue this as Harrison had never played a down in an NFL regular season game. But none the less .. this is a little different than saying player A lost his job to player B without being injured or playing poorly.

[swifty1812]

I know they are just PFF scores, but if you look at Louis it makes sense, I saw him doing more chasing of his guy in the backfield than actually moving them backwards. I can remember atleast on 75% of the running plays that failed, I would see Louis either laying down or spun around. I would almost garauntee when we get Thornton and Mewhort back our running game will pick back up and actually be even better with Harrison.

 

One thing that I really noticed with Harrison was his ability to get to the second level and make blocks that Shipley just cannot do, due to physical inability. I think that will really start to translate once the Starting G's are back.

[Superman]

Not trying to break groin , but did you and I have a disagreement about how Cherlius looked in the preseason ? I think I was worried and you were not ? I'm too lazy to go back and search and my memory really does slip now and then. In any event , this guy is struggling every game in both the run game and pass protection. Wonder if maybe his knee is acting up ? Never was great in run game but was solid in protecting the QB

 

Something like that. Cherilus had that terrible game against the Saints. I think my objection was with bringing up his contract in relation to his play. 

 

However, he's been sloppy most of this year. Kind of annoying.

[SteelCityColt]

Something like that. Cherilus had that terrible game against the Saints. I think my objection was with bringing up his contract in relation to his play. 

 

However, he's been sloppy most of this year. Kind of annoying.

 

I'd agree with that, the one play that sticks in my mind from last night was when Watt came all the way around the back to sack Luck with one hand. Cherilus had him and gave up at the end thinking there was no way Watt was going to make it and stood there looking sheepish after. 

[HORSEPOWER]

that botched snap almost cost us the game and it wasnt like there were running lanes or luck wasnt getting pressured up the middle. why is shipley in the doghouse? and for that matter why is holmes in the doghouse? what has harrison done to prove hes better then shipley and holmes? starting line for next week better be canstanzo mewhort shipley thornton chelius or else peko and atkins are gonna have a field day

That snap was on Luck. He was looking up at play clock after calling for the snap.

[dw49]

Something like that. Cherilus had that terrible game against the Saints. I think my objection was with bringing up his contract in relation to his play. 

 

However, he's been sloppy most of this year. Kind of annoying.

 

 

 

Yep .. that was it. I wasn't calling you out , just trying to remember what we talked about. And yeah.. it is annoying.

[John Waylon]

There was no bad snap. Luck took his eyes off the ball looking at the play clock.

IN FACT, the snap hit Luck PERFECTLY.

Harrison hasn't done awful. I fault our lack of push up the middle last night on having two backup guards going against a very stout defensive line.

They are doubling down on him being the answer long-term.

[dw49]

Regardless, changing centers every two weeks is bad for our quarterback and chemistry within the whole line..

 

 

Or you could look at it this way. There has only been one change at the C position from game 1. Harrison the # 2 player on the depth chart returned from a hand injury to start inlace of the player that was signed off the waiver wire around 6 days before game one. 

[ColtsFanMikeC]

that means nothing. luck will never throw anyone under the bus

Going over and apologizing to a C is way different than throwing someone under the bus.

 

Throwing someone under the bus would mean he spoke to the media or said something bad about the guy to the public.  If that was solely on Harrison, Luck wouldn't have been apologetic.

[CR91]

Going over and apologizing to a C is way different than throwing someone under the bus.

 

Throwing someone under the bus would mean he spoke to the media or said something bad about the guy to the public.  If that was solely on Harrison, Luck wouldn't have been apologetic.

 

luck is a proven starter while harrison is making his second start. im sure harrison was already down on himself  and luck wanted to ease the pain by taking the blame. its what the QB does. takes the blame from others 

[CR91]

That snap was on Luck. He was looking up at play clock after calling for the snap.

 

he was looking at the play clock because harrison didnt snap the ball when he was suppose to so luck had to see if he needed to call time out or not

[CR91]

Did Shipley actually have that job ? The way I remember it was Holmes was No1 on depth chart and Harrison was #2. Both guys were injured and Shipley was signed off the waiver wire. He was perceived by many to play well but replaced by a guy that was actually higher on the depth chart than he was. I guess some could argue this as Harrison had never played a down in an NFL regular season game. But none the less .. this is a little different than saying player A lost his job to player B without being injured or playing poorly.

thats one way to look at it, but then why isnt holmes starting

[rittdk01]

Harrison played well.  Bad snap was on Luck and even Luck came up to him and admitted so.

I still would like to see where we are at with Holmes.  I'm hoping Pagano will give him a shot.

When has Luck not taken credit for a miscue?

 

Dude threw one high that looked like Luck wasn't expecting it earlier in the game too.  Also threw one or two away in preseason if I recall.

 

Doesn't look bad but needs to clean that stuff up if he wants to play over Shipley.

[Buck Showalter]

There was no bad snap. Luck took his eyes off the ball looking at the play clock.

IN FACT, the snap hit Luck PERFECTLY.

Harrison hasn't done awful. I fault our lack of push up the middle last night on having two backup guards going against a very stout defensive line.

They are doubling down on him being the answer long-term.

quit making so much sense...

[Solon]

Did you not see Harrison manhandle Watt on that T.Y 43 yard play? He has my respect.

[Ja'Crispy]

Harrison actually played very well yesterday and that snap was on Luck. Harrison couldn't hear the count and when the guard tapped him to snap the ball, Luck took his eyes off the ball.

This is what the replay shows. Harrison did what he was supposed to and the snap was good. Luck just looked away at the wrong time.

[Larry Horseman]

It is beyond me why people don't understand that we will have a much better line with Harrison at C in the second half of the season/playoffs and moving forward after that. Get over the present a little bit...so he has made a few mistakes that Shipley probably wouldn't have. Once Harrison gets more experience, that won't happen, and aside from the snap stuff, he is playing just fine. Also, Holmes is not our C of the future any longer so move on: the Colts are all in on Harrison. Playing Harrison now is a decision that's made for the long-term health of the team, and I completely support Pagano in it. 

[Larry Horseman]

I would say then let Harrison play guard, someplace where he can't turn the ball over or wreak the play again via a screwed up snap.

 

No, Harrison shouldn't play guard. He is the starting center barring an injury. You need to live in this reality. The snap stuff will work itself out; I'd be surprised if it happens more than once the rest of the season. Stop fixating on one issue and realize that Harrison is playing well and has so much potential and upside that he is going to improve every week. 

[ColtsLegacy]

he was looking at the play clock because harrison didnt snap the ball when he was suppose to so luck had to see if he needed to call time out or not

I think it's clear you don't know what you're talking about.

We really can't be sure who's at fault. One thing we do know is that Luck took blame when he met with Harrison, but that means nothing to you because it doesn't support your skewed view and if it doesn't support your opinion, you disregard it.

[Jason_]

luck is a proven starter while harrison is making his second start. im sure harrison was already down on himself  and luck wanted to ease the pain by taking the blame. its what the QB does. takes the blame from others 

 

That's true, but sometimes the QB takes the blame for himself as well. 

[needanoline63]

On one play he drove jj watt into the ground

[CR91]

I think it's clear you don't know what you're talking about.

We really can't be sure who's at fault. One thing we do know is that Luck took blame when he met with Harrison, but that means nothing to you because it doesn't support your skewed view and if it doesn't support your opinion, you disregard it.

 

what was clear was luck was calling for the ball, but obviously we'll never know whos fault it truly was  

[krunk]

When has Luck not taken credit for a miscue?

 

Dude threw one high that looked like Luck wasn't expecting it earlier in the game too.  Also threw one or two away in preseason if I recall.

 

Doesn't look bad but needs to clean that stuff up if he wants to play over Shipley.

 

So you're telling me Luck went up to Bradshaw after his fumble and said it was his own fault?  He does not always blame everything on himself.  When receivers drop balls he usually grasps his fists and goes on to the next play.  He doesn't always give a signal that it's his fault.  He went up to Harrison and was emphatic about it, not just a half hearted signal of my bad.  It was clear he knew he took his attention off the center.   I think the real thing here is when will fans admit when Luck makes a miscue.

[Clem-Dog]

I think Harrison will learn to play better. His mistakes are actually learning experiences so hopefully we see less of them in the future. Once he familiarizes himself with the snap-count he could be really good. A lot of upside to grow with Luck.

Shipley is solid but unspectacular and Holmes is probably the next Ben Ijalana??. I'm okay with Harrison as long as his awareness continues to improve.

[jbaron04]

that botched snap almost cost us the game and it wasnt like there were running lanes or luck wasnt getting pressured up the middle. why is shipley in the doghouse? and for that matter why is holmes in the doghouse? what has harrison done to prove hes better then shipley and holmes? starting line for next week better be canstanzo mewhort shipley thornton chelius or else peko and atkins are gonna have a field day

Harrison is playing well what game are u watching sir?