how to beat peyton

[Sports Central1]

Good one Jules!

 

Let me ask you and the rest of the Colts fans here that know the team better than me. Do you have the defensive personnel to do what the Seahawks did? And by that I mean pressure up the middle, not sack Peyton but just make him uncomfortable and then the DBs to cover the slant routes? If you can do what Seattle did even at 70 percent, I think you have a chance. How about your safeties? Can they bring the wood they way Kam did in the SB? The Denver receivers don't like to get hit. Their toughest guy IMO was Welker and he isn't playing. You can get to the other guys and make them jittery. How will your D be against the run? I think the Denver run game took a bit hit losing Moreno. Ball is a fumbler so I think you could maybe get a TO from him.

 

Do you think the Pats have the defense this year to be closer to what the Seahawks had?  They do have Revis and Browner.

 

I've heard that these new strict pass interference rules will hurt Browner and he'll get smoked because he won't be able to get physical.

[Le Neon]

Davis and Toler need to have huge games. We need to pressure him with our front 3 or 4 without blitzing, or wisely picking our spots to blitz. We can't turn the ball over, we can't have 3 and outs. We need to score at least 30 points to have a chance. We probably also need to force at least 2 turnovers.

Agreed. The Seahawks put pressure on him, sure, but they beat him by covering and intimidating his receivers.

Manning sees the field better then anyone, simply blitzing means leaving someone open. If you cover everyone, great as Manning is, he doesn't have the arm to beat great coverage consistently. Force him to be perfectly accurate on every throw and we can force some turnovers when he throws into coverage.

We'll see if Davis, Toler and co. are up to the challenge on Sunday night.

[Kyle]

Who's idea was it to institute these new pass interference rules this year?

 

It seems whenever one of Peyton's high powered offensive teams gets beat whether with the colts or broncos then during the off-season the NFL institutes rules to protect offenses.  It's as if Peyton called up Roger Goodell and told him to change the rules.

 

Fantasy sports is ruining the NFL.  They want big offensive numbers.

 

I like what they are doing now.  They didn't change any rules at all, just are enforcing them consistently 

[lollygagger8]

Keys to winning the Denver game: 

 

Vontae needs to prepare for Tom Brady.

 

Werner needs to do his absolute best impression of Mathis. 

 

Manusky needs to learn to not drop DQ Jackson into coverage. 

 

Release the TY. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Who's idea was it to institute these new pass interference rules this year?

 

It seems whenever one of Peyton's high powered offensive teams gets beat whether with the colts or broncos then during the off-season the NFL institutes rules to protect offenses.  It's as if Peyton called up Roger Goodell and told him to change the rules.

 

Fantasy sports is ruining the NFL.  They want big offensive numbers.

 

It's not new rules. It's a (second time!) point of Emphasis. Believe it or not, these illegal contact and defensive holding penalties were put in place an 1978! OTOH, after the Pats mugged the Colts receivers in 2003 playoffs, Polian urged the league to enforce the rules already on the books.  So the new "point of Emphasis" in 2004.  Penalties shot up dramatically, and fans of mugging DB's screamed mightily over such ticky tack calls. Over the ensuing years, the officials have slipped on calling it more and more each year.  Then the Seahawks decisively shut down (one of) the top offenses and offensive QB's in history in a Super Bowl. I'm sure somebody re-reminded the league about the 1978 rule that was Emphasized in 2004, and that the NFL needs to do it again once more.

 

IME, if this 'Emphasis' cycle does not fix it the way the league wants relatively long term, they need to amend or change the rule.  This enforce/let it slide cycling isn't good for anybody- players or fans.

[Esquire59]

Pass rush is part of the key. The guy simply can't throw the long ball any longer. Yes, once or twice a game, if he has time, he can hit someone around 30 yards. But the slow, wobbly ducks aren't gonna win games. You gotta gamble with 1-deep, flood the short passing lanes. He now lives and dies by the slant pass. Jam the receivers, flood the slant lanes with LBs and DL. Dare him to beat you deep. He WILL beat you deep once, twice, three times a game but not consistently.

[OLD FAN MAN]

It's not new rules. It's a (second time!) point of Emphasis. Believe it or not, these illegal contact and defensive holding penalties were put in place an 1978! OTOH, after the Pats mugged the Colts receivers in 2003 playoffs, Polian urged the league to enforce the rules already on the books.  So the new "point of Emphasis" in 2004.  Penalties shot up dramatically, and fans of mugging DB's screamed mightily over such ticky tack calls. Over the ensuing years, the officials have slipped on calling it more and more each year.  Then the Seahawks decisively shut down (one of) the top offenses and offensive QB's in history in a Super Bowl. I'm sure somebody re-reminded the league about the 1978 rule that was Emphasized in 2004, and that the NFL needs to do it again once more.

 

IME, if this 'Emphasis' cycle does not fix it the way the league wants relatively long term, they need to amend or change the rule.  This enforce/let it slide cycling isn't good for anybody- players or fans.

if I recall it was the bill bilichick rule, he can find a way around any rule. good coach

[BlueShoe]

Anyone else find this thread a little odd and hilarious? 

 

I am not knocking the intent, because it is a valid discussion. But it is very odd to be talking about this when so many other teams used to be asking the same questions. 

 

To add my 2 cents, historically Peyton usually struggles against good 3-4 defenses early in the game, and then he starts to mount an assault and makes the game close.

 

This is exactly what we saw in last years Colts/Broncos game too. That said, Peyton blasted the Ravens on opening day last year from the moment the opening horn sounded.

[jvan1973]

if I recall it was the bill bilichick rule, he can find a way around any rule. good coach

You may want to check the "tape" on that comment

[ColtsBlueFL]

if I recall it was the bill bilichick rule, he can find a way around any rule. good coach

 

Good call. If not it should because it was the Pats vs. Cols Jan. 2004 and the Pats vs Rams (greatest show on turf) that got the competition committee to emphasize rule enforcement.  A few years later, Belichick was able to use that  to his offensive advantage and the 2007 Pats almost ran the table undefeated with their offensive juggernaut.  Bill has a pulse on the game and uses players talents and rule enforcement to his greatest advantage in scheme and game planning.  That's why he is considered the best of the best.

[ColtsBlueFL]

You may want to check the "tape" on that comment

 

LOL, made it easier knowing what was coming to mug the receiver.  ;-)

[Jason_]

Pressure up the middle it's Peytons kryptonite push the pile back right at him he throws ducks when he can't step into his passes .

 

That's true of most QBs.  

[ColtsFanMikeC]

Go watch the game last year and you will see how to beat him. Aggressive man with showing the receivers who is the boss. If Howell, Butler, Toler, and I think even Davis don't go out during various times from 3rd Q on, that game wouldn't have really been close. 

 

Yes, the 1 play Davis missed was D. Thomas' big TD -- Davis shut him down pretty much all game better than any other CB all year, the play (or maybe it was a series) Davis was out is when Thomas burned us for a TD.

 

Put him on the ground...often. Harass and play physical with his receivers to disrupt their timing. If Luck brings his "A" game this will also put added pressure on Peyton to try to match. If all of the above happen, Peyton is prone to becoming frustrated into forcing things and thus becomes vulnerable.

 

One thing about Luck that we never had with Peyton is, Luck is mobile and seems to almost like getting hit from time to time.  Peyton isn't going to move much outside of the pocket, if we can collapse the pocket, even if we don't have a lot of sacks, if we can get that pocket tight and contact him (not late hit, but just let him know we're there or push his OL into him) we should fluster him and this will be especially important if we can also jam his WR's up -- Peyton throws to spots on the field based on timing and precise route running, if we can disrupt the timing or the trajectory of the WR's routes we can make Peyton miss his spots.

 

 

gary bracket said on 1070 am the way to beat peyton  is to keep him off the field, by running the ball and eating up the clock can we do it with this o-line?

 

I hope Pep is true to his "score-first" offense -- we may have a tough time running the ball, especially if we try to focus on a ground-and-pound run game. We have the tools (Wayne, D. Allen, Fleener, Nicks, Whalen, T-Rich) to have a very effective short/possession pass game that should kill clock, and we also have the tools (TY, Moncrief, Rogers, Fleener) to stretch the field and 'take the top off the secondary' (as Pagano says).  I am really hoping we can use our short/possession game to exploit match ups for TY or Moncrief to use their speed and burn the D for some big plays and put points on the board as well as to open up some space and empty the box out for T-Rich.  If we can get a couple scores ahead, we can focus on killing the clock a bit more, but if we are in a close game (or behind) we are better off putting as many points on the board as possible, in anyway possible.

[Jason_]

nobody knew how to keep Peyton on the sideline better than Brackett

 

[crazycolt1]

In my mind, I'm already in wk 2.

Nice of you to be optimistic. As a Colt fan I don't automatically write them off and chalk up a loss. Seems like what the Colts have done over the last two years you could have a little faith. But then, you have always been negative in your comments and in your personal opinions.

[BOTT]

Agreed. The Seahawks put pressure on him, sure, but they beat him by covering and intimidating his receivers.

Manning sees the field better then anyone, simply blitzing means leaving someone open. If you cover everyone, great as Manning is, he doesn't have the arm to beat great coverage consistently. Force him to be perfectly accurate on every throw and we can force some turnovers when he throws into coverage.

We'll see if Davis, Toler and co. are up to the challenge on Sunday night.

No, Seattle won by dominating the line of scrimmage. They were getting pressure on WR screens. Hell, both interceptions were caused by pressure.

[B~Town]

That's true of most QBs.  

Maybe the older QB's but these new guy throw BB's on run and are much more mobile that Manning .

[Le Neon]

No, Seattle won by dominating the line of scrimmage. They were getting pressure on WR screens. Hell, both interceptions were caused by pressure.

And the secondary was able to cover and take away his hot receiver. Lots of teams can blitz and bring pressure. Not many have the athleticism and discipline in the back end to dictate and take away his quick options. These are the kinds of teams you meet late in the playoffs. Old school Patriots, some of the Chargers squads and the Seattle Seahawks as examples. The Bears were almost successful in this, but Danael Manning blew an assignment and Manning made them pay with a long td.

You NEED strong, disciplined secondary play to stop Manning. Quick pressure is just a bonus.

[SilentHill]

Our defense just needs to be physical, lay the wood on Manning, jam the receivers at the line within the 5 yards, etc, etc.

 

Our defense matches up good against Manning, so I expect great things.

[BOTT]

And the secondary was able to cover and take away his hot receiver. Lots of teams can blitz and bring pressure. Not many have the athleticism and discipline in the back end to dictate and take away his quick options. These are the kinds of teams you meet late in the playoffs. Old school Patriots, some of the Chargers squads and the Seattle Seahawks as examples. The Bears were almost successful in this, but Danael Manning blew an assignment and Manning made them pay with a long td.

You NEED strong, disciplined secondary play to stop Manning. Quick pressure is just a bonus.

You have it backwards. And you just named really good defenses....surprise surprise

Plus, the Bears?? It rained the entire time and made it a sloppy game.

[BOTT]

Our defense just needs to be physical, lay the wood on Manning, jam the receivers at the line within the 5 yards, etc, etc.

 

Our defense matches up good against Manning, so I expect great things.

Without Mathis I don't think it matches up that well.

[Jason_]

Maybe the older QB's but these new guy throw BB's on run and are much more mobile that Manning .

 

well throwing on the run is quite a bit different than not being able to step into their pass. ;)  Manning can throw on the run.  Not with the same velocity as he can when he can get a proper stance, but again, that's going to be true of any QB.  No matter how strong their arm is, they're not going to throw with the same velocity on the run or without being able to step into the pass than when they can get proper form and stance.  Manning was never known as having a rocket type arm like Flacco, but he's always had more than enough arm strength to get the job done and that still applies now.

[Le Neon]

You have it backwards. And you just named really good defenses....surprise surprise

Plus, the Bears?? It rained the entire time and made it a sloppy game.

Good defenses, excellent secondaries. You made no arguement against my main point.

[amfootball]

Do you think the Pats have the defense this year to be closer to what the Seahawks had?  They do have Revis and Browner.

 

I've heard that these new strict pass interference rules will hurt Browner and he'll get smoked because he won't be able to get physical.

I think the Pats defense is significantly better with Revis and Browner but I thought they had the personnel last year to handle Denver had Talib, Wilfork and Mayo stayed healthy. For sure Revis and Browner are an upgrade so I think their chances are even better but that Denver O is still potent. Brady and the O will have to put up his share of points as well for a win.

[Coffeedrinker]

gary bracket said on 1070 am the way to beat peyton  is to keep him off the field, by running the ball and eating up the clock can we do it with this o-line?

Brilliant.  Now if the Denver defense will just cooperate the Colts will be in the W column after week 1.

[Le Neon]

You have it backwards. And you just named really good defenses....surprise surprise

Plus, the Bears?? It rained the entire time and made it a sloppy game.

And to illustrate anecdotally:

Ravens sack Manning three times and hit him 7 times, Manning throws 7 tds. Manning is inhuman.

Colts sack Manning 4 times and hit him 9 times, while Vontae Davis plays the game of his life erasing DT, Manning looks human and loses.

Pass rush doesn't matter if the ball is already out of Manning's hand. The defense needs to make him hold the ball by taking away his options.

[ProblChld32]

Cover well +  Get after the QB = Win

[dgambill]

Score more points then him. Simple as that. But how you do that...I agree. Long drives...eat clock...win time of possession and make him go 80-90 yds every drive....be tough in the redzone. I would say be physical with his receivers make him hold the ball longer and hopefully disrupt routes. He will get antsy in the pocket and if you can generate a pass rush he can be forced into bad throws. Change up your defenses...disguise them until snap ....but yes...most importantly SCORE points.

[BOTT]

Good defenses, excellent secondaries. You made no arguement against my main point.

You did it for me. All the teams you named, minus the Bears, had an excellent pass rush.

[BOTT]

And to illustrate anecdotally:

Ravens sack Manning three times and hit him 7 times, Manning throws 7 tds. Manning is inhuman.

Colts sack Manning 4 times and hit him 9 times, while Vontae Davis plays the game of his life erasing DT, Manning looks human and loses.

Pass rush doesn't matter if the ball is already out of Manning's hand. The defense needs to make him hold the ball by taking away his options.

I could be wrong, but I don't remember being scared of SD secondary. And Mathis made the game changing in the colts win last year. And what caused the two game changing interceptions in the SB? Pass rush. What caused Manning's OT interception vs the ravens 2 yrs ago in the playoffs? Pass rush. What propelled the Steelers upset of the Colts in 05? Pass rush.

But we can agree to disagree

[Sports Central1]

It's not new rules. It's a (second time!) point of Emphasis. Believe it or not, these illegal contact and defensive holding penalties were put in place an 1978! OTOH, after the Pats mugged the Colts receivers in 2003 playoffs, Polian urged the league to enforce the rules alreade books.  So the new "point of Emphasis" in 2004.  Penalties shot up dramatically, and fans of mugging DB's screamed mightily over such ticky tack calls. Over the ensuing years, the officials have slipped on calling it more and more each year.  Then the Seahawks decisively shut down (one of) the top offenses and offensive QB's in history in a Super Bowl. I'm sure somebody re-reminded the league about the 1978 rule that was Emphasized in 2004, and that the NFL needs to do it again once more.

 

IME, if this 'Emphasis' cycle does not fix it the way the league wants relatively long term, they need to amend or change the rule.  This enforce/let it slide cycling isn't good for anybody- players or fans.

 

That just makes the Colts and their fans seem soft.  Football is a physical game.  Pats did nothing wrong and neither did the Seahawks in their fair victory in the SB.

[Jason_]

That just makes the Colts and their fans seem soft.  Football is a physical game.  Pats did nothing wrong and neither did the Seahawks in their fair victory in the SB.

 

football is a physical game, but there are also rules, and those rules need to be and should be followed.  there are some rules I really don't like, such as all of the over-protecting of QB's but as long as the rules are in place they should be followed and enforced as consistently as possible.

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

Pressure pressure pressure to get those happy feet dancing all game long.

[Sports Central1]

football is a physical game, but there are also rules, and those rules need to be and should be followed.  there are some rules I really don't like, such as all of the over-protecting of QB's but as long as the rules are in place they should be followed and enforced as consistently as possible.

 

Then put an asterisk next to every team's win that was physical since 1978 when they first enacted that rule.

 

It's sad that it was the Colts' GM who had to whine when the Pats were no more physical with them then the Ravens were with the Giants in the 2000 super bowl or the Bucs were to the Raiders in 2002 and so on.  It was just sore losers on the Colts part.

 

It always seems to happen when it's Peyton's teams and he can't have every game be arena football.  It makes his teams soft.  Dungy's teams were soft.

 

And most fans don't want these rules enforced.  Well not the fans who like teams that actually play physical football.

[Jason_]

Then put an asterisk next to every team's win that was physical since 1978 when they first enacted that rule.

 

It's sad that it was the Colts' GM who had to whine when the Pats were no more physical with them then the Ravens were with the Giants in the 2000 super bowl or the Bucs were to the Raiders in 2002 and so on.  It was just sore losers on the Colts part.

 

It always seems to happen when it's Peyton's teams and he can't have every game be arena football.  It makes his teams soft.  Dungy's teams were soft.

 

And most fans don't want these rules enforced.  Well not the fans who like teams that actually play physical football.

 

well, first, neither you nor I are in any position to say what rules "most fans" want or don't want enforced. ;)  Second, I never said that I did either.  However there does have to be some sort of rules in place for contact between DB and WR.  

 

I do more than agree that the Dungy defenses were soft.  The offense was more of a finesse offense but at least during the Dungy years, the offense was still able to run the ball during the season.  So I wouldn't necessarily call the offenses soft.  

 

Also, every team sends complaints to the league office after games about rules that were broken but not penalized during games.  That one simply got the most publicity.  I'll be perfectly honest and say I don't remember the game nearly well enough to say how the Pats' DBs played that game, but the bottom line is the rule is in effect and, as long as it is, will be enforced.

[antipatriot]

Peyton is like every other QB get a pass rush and you will have a good chance.  Problem with Peyton is he gets the ball out unbelievably fast he doesnt need as much time as most QB's.

[ColtsBlueFL]

That just makes the Colts and their fans seem soft.  Football is a physical game.  Pats did nothing wrong and neither did the Seahawks in their fair victory in the SB.

 

Prior to 1978, you would be 100% correct.  But it's not.  Sorry.

[OLD FAN MAN]

gary only said what to do on offense, unless I missed it he did not say what to do on defense. thoughts?

[ColtsBlueFL]

well, first, neither you nor I are in any position to say what rules "most fans" want or don't want enforced. ;)  Second, I never said that I did either.  However there does have to be some sort of rules in place for contact between DB and WR.  

 

I do more than agree that the Dungy defenses were soft.  The offense was more of a finesse offense but at least during the Dungy years, the offense was still able to run the ball during the season.  So I wouldn't necessarily call the offenses soft.  

 

Also, every team sends complaints to the league office after games about rules that were broken but not penalized during games.  That one simply got the most publicity.  I'll be perfectly honest and say I don't remember the game nearly well enough to say how the Pats' DBs played that game, but the bottom line is the rule is in effect and, as long as it is, will be enforced.

 

Here's a little something to spark memories-

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/12/sports/football/12offense.html?_r=0

 

When the officials started to enforce this same rule in 1978, all the defenders and fans of Defense had the exact same reactions then as they do now.  And Mike Pereira  (now retired) response to this was this-

 

"My response to the players is that we're playing the game by the rules," Pereira said. "I didn't write the rules, but our officials are enforcing them. The illegal contact rule was written to create balance between the offense and the defense. We became a little lax over the years in getting our guys to officiate it, and that's probably my fault. But we're calling it the way it's supposed to be called. It's up to them to adjust to it."

 

Exactly 10 years later, the league let the officials get lax in calling it by the rules, and had to be reined in again.  It's almost comical in a way, really.

 

http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2002130903_nflfeature26.html

 

 

and now days-

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11335930/nfl-passing-offenses-likely-benefit-penalties-defensive-holding-illegal-contact-increase?src=mobile

 

History repeating itself.

[Blue Horseshoe]

football is a physical game, but there are also rules, and those rules need to be and should be followed.  there are some rules I really don't like, such as all of the over-protecting of QB's but as long as the rules are in place they should be followed and enforced as consistently as possible.

 

He is a Patriot fan and they sometimes have a little difficulty understanding the concept of rules. ;)