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how to beat peyton


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I could be wrong, but I don't remember being scared of SD secondary. And Mathis made the game changing in the colts win last year. And what caused the two game changing interceptions in the SB? Pass rush. What caused Manning's OT interception vs the ravens 2 yrs ago in the playoffs? Pass rush. What propelled the Steelers upset of the Colts in 05? Pass rush.

But we can agree to disagree

Fair enough re: agree to disagree. Though the Chargers had three first round picks at corner (Jammer, Cromartie and Cason) and Weddle at free safety. In fairness I think the strong safety was pretty garbage. I can't even remember his name.

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But the Pats and Seahawks did nothing wrong.  They were just the better team on that given day.

 

The NFL in 2004 said you are wrong,

 

***    Last March, the committee announced that officials this season would enforce the 1978 rule that limits defensive contact with receivers.

 

"We queried Mike about it and he said, 'We've been allowing the grabbing of jerseys as long as a player is not restricted,' " Bill Polian, the Colts' president and a member of the competition committee, said. Polian said the A.F.C. championship game "was an example - and maybe an outlandish example - of what has been going on for a couple of years."

 

Pereira agreed that the game was "the cherry on top" of an existing problem. Every so often, he said last week by phone, the rules need to be emphasized because they are not being followed as originally written.

 

"I'd put it more on me; I wouldn't put it on the officials," Pereira said. "In the department, we had gotten a little negligent, and it's something that has evolved."

 

With new emphasis on an old rule, scoring and illegal-contact penalties have increased this season, as have complaints from some defensive players and coaches who say offenses, at an advantage because of a crackdown on certain types of tackles, have been given another boost.   ***

 

And ten years later the NFL says you are wrong-

 

***    Illegal contact penalties are way up this preseason, the result of the league office telling officials to monitor defensive backs closely and throw flags with impunity. That will continue in the regular season.

 

"We are not going to change how we’re calling the games once the regular-season starts,’’ NFL V.P. of officiating Dean Blandino told The MMQB.  ***

 

Stats show each team will go from 1 illegal contact call per every other game avg. to 2 per game.  That would be 4 x than last year.But My prediction is teams will adjust and it will only go over double that called last season.  I think the best db's can still cover within the rules, the marginal ones that needed the jersey grabbing and arm/hand fighting down the field will be hurt more.

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The NFL in 2004 said you are wrong,

 

***    Last March, the committee announced that officials this season would enforce the 1978 rule that limits defensive contact with receivers.

 

"We queried Mike about it and he said, 'We've been allowing the grabbing of jerseys as long as a player is not restricted,' " Bill Polian, the Colts' president and a member of the competition committee, said. Polian said the A.F.C. championship game "was an example - and maybe an outlandish example - of what has been going on for a couple of years."

 

Pereira agreed that the game was "the cherry on top" of an existing problem. Every so often, he said last week by phone, the rules need to be emphasized because they are not being followed as originally written.

 

"I'd put it more on me; I wouldn't put it on the officials," Pereira said. "In the department, we had gotten a little negligent, and it's something that has evolved."

 

With new emphasis on an old rule, scoring and illegal-contact penalties have increased this season, as have complaints from some defensive players and coaches who say offenses, at an advantage because of a crackdown on certain types of tackles, have been given another boost.   ***

 

And ten years later the NFL says you are wrong-

 

***    Illegal contact penalties are way up this preseason, the result of the league office telling officials to monitor defensive backs closely and throw flags with impunity. That will continue in the regular season.

 

"We are not going to change how we’re calling the games once the regular-season starts,’’ NFL V.P. of officiating Dean Blandino told The MMQB.  ***

 

Stats show each team will go from 1 illegal contact call per every other game avg. to 2 per game.  That would be 4 x than last year.But My prediction is teams will adjust and it will only go over double that called last season.  I think the best db's can still cover within the rules, the marginal ones that needed the jersey grabbing and arm/hand fighting down the field will be hurt more.

 

Pats and Seahawks did nothing wrong.  You just don't like your team lost fair and square.   So your GM cried.  waa waaa "We got picked on, we were bullied."  

 

That Colts/Pats game was no different than any other game.  And the NFL competition committee?  lol  [mod edit: no politics] Yeah no bias there.  Sure.

 

The bottom line is if the Colts were to have won that game using the same tactics the Pats did then Polian wouldn't have said anything.

 

Pereira says emphasis on illegal contact "didn't seem logical"...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/10/pereira-says-emphasis-on-illegal-contact-didnt-seem-logical/

 

But his broader point is an eye-opener.  Not only did Pereira make it clear that Polian pushed the “point of emphasis” through the Competition Committee, but Pereira also was refreshingly candid regarding his disagreement with the requirement that any contact with a receiver after five yards mandated a five-yard penalty and an automatic first down.

 
And it backfired.  Basically the Saints and other teams used the "Manning Rule" against Peyton's teams.
 
Bill Polian thought Peyton was the greatest QB in the game and believed the rules would benefit Peyton's team and no other QB in the game was capable of exploiting it.   Well then the Colts ran into the Steelers, Chargers and Saints in the post season after 2004.  And then Peyton ran into the Ravens and Seahawks.  After the Seahawks shellacked the Broncos, I bet Peyton, Fox and the Broncos' owner went crying to Goodell to start up their "arena football" league rules again.
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The bottom line is if the Colts were to have won that game using the same tactics the Pats did then Polian wouldn't have said anything.

 

 

 

 

Of course Polian wouldn't have said anything, but I'd be more than willing to bet that Bellichick would have.

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Naw, the Pats stunk it up in 2000, 2002 and lost in 2005 and 2006 and said nothing.

 

Perhaps Bellichick thought the officiating was relatively fair in those games.  Oh and we actually don't know that they said nothing, all we know is that if they did it was never made public.

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It's not complicated in theory, but it's not easy to pull off.

 

Pressure him, preferably up the middle. Blitz and he'll kill you. 

 

Mug his receivers and don't let them get clean releases. Push it as far as the refs will let you push it. 

 

Their offense is predicated on anticipation and timing. Throw that off and make him hold the ball longer than he wants to.

 

It's the same as it's always been for high-flying, precision-based offenses. 

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Lol and this thread was made bc? Could've sworn we were one of the teams that beat the broncos last year. Don't need to copy the seahawks so called "blueprint" we had already beaten then broncos before them...in all reality they copied our blueprint and just added a lot more pass rush to go with it.

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Lol and this thread was made bc? Could've sworn we were one of the teams that beat the broncos last year. Don't need to copy the seahawks so called "blueprint" we had already beaten then broncos before them...in all reality they copied our blueprint and just added a lot more pass rush to go with it.

 

But the Colts beat the Broncos in Indy.  It was an emotional game with Peyton's first game back.

 

Now, after the Welker suspension and distraction I can't decide who wins in Denver.  A week ago I would have picked the Broncos.  I think Denver comes back down to earth this season, they got a tougher schedule.  The AFC West is better now.

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then you really shouldn't reference It in your arguments

 

The Seahawks blew out the Broncos.  It wasn't even close.  I don't need to watch the game to know, I saw the highlights.  I'm not the coach of the Colts.  I'll just say the Colts should do what the Seahawks did in the super bowl, let them analyze the tape.

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But the Colts beat the Broncos in Indy.  It was an emotional game with Peyton's first game back.

 

Now, after the Welker suspension and distraction I can't decide who wins in Denver.  A week ago I would have picked the Broncos.  I think Denver comes back down to earth this season, they got a tougher schedule.  The AFC West is better now.

I think Denvers coming back down to earth moment came in last years SB. They will still be an offensive juggernaught still regardless of Welkers absense, That just comes with the territory of having a healthy Peyton as your QB but both the Colts and the Seahawks layed the blueprint on how to slow them down and throw off there timing, The test will be can the Colts keep up in Denver and run the ball affectively enough to not let Denvers pass rush just to pin there ears back, Also defense has to limit missed tackles.......This part will probably be our undoing considering our Secondary. I don't have much confidence in Landry being able to make open field tackles and Adams has shown to be a pure cover safety in the form of an Ed Reed (and by that comparison I mean much more likely to bat at the ball or even get the pick then he is to tackle you.....Obviously he is not on the same planet as Ed Reed was in his prime)

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Didn't the Seahawks blitz often in the super bowl and get to Manning?

 

The Seahawks blew out the Broncos.  It wasn't even close.  I don't need to watch the game to know, I saw the highlights.  I'm not the coach of the Colts.  I'll just say the Colts should do what the Seahawks did in the super bowl, let them analyze the tape.

 

When you highlight the Seahawks strategy, it would seem you actually knew what it was.

 

On 51 dropbacks, the Seahawks blitzed 6 times. On 51 dropbacks, Manning was pressured 20 times. So even if all 6 of those blitzes resulted in pressure (and I'm not sure whether they did or not), that's still almost 75% of the pressure coming from only four rushers. And the one sack Manning took came without a blitz.

 

Although Manning threw a pick against a blitz, he was better in adjusted yards/attempt against the blitz in the Super Bowl. But that's a very small sample size, only six plays.

 

Anyways, GoPats' point is correct. You're better off if you can get pressure across your defensive front without sending extra rushers. And you still have to play tight coverage on the receivers.  If you ever want to see this in practice, watch the SB. Or the first two and a half quarters of the Colts/Broncos game last year.

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The Seahawks blew out the Broncos.  It wasn't even close.  I don't need to watch the game to know, I saw the highlights.  I'm not the coach of the Colts.  I'll just say the Colts should do what the Seahawks did in the super bowl, let them analyze the tape.

Do you happen to drink apple juice?

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Didn't the Seahawks blitz often in the super bowl and get to Manning?

 

Supes gave you the numbers... they didn't really send extra guys very often. They got to him with four rushers the same way the Giants got to Brady without extra rushers in both of the Pats-NY super bowls.

 

They also just physically dominated the Broncos' offense, pretty much across the board. It's borderline cliche but that's how you beat those teams. Hit 'em hard, hit 'em often, get them thinking too much. 

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Supes gave you the numbers... they didn't really send extra guys very often. They got to him with four rushers the same way the Giants got to Brady without extra rushers in both of the Pats-NY super bowls.

 

They also just physically dominated the Broncos' offense, pretty much across the board. It's borderline cliche but that's how you beat those teams. Hit 'em hard, hit 'em often, get them thinking too much. 

 

Pats are using a 3-4 base D this year right?  I wonder why they don't use the 4-3 since that D has been winning most the super bowls the last 15 years?  (Ravens 2000, Bucs 2002, Patriots 2003, Colts 2006, Giants 2007, Saints 2009, Giants 2011, 2012 Ravens, 2013 Seahawks.

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Anyone trying to replicate the Colts/Seahawks strategy to beat Denver (which really is a common sense strategy of getting pressure with four) is going to have to:

 

1) execute (I don't like the terms "blueprint" and "exposed" etc, this game is about preparation and execution, not about what cheat codes work on a video game console...if Denver played Seattle again they will prepare different and vice versa, etc. Seattle wasn't notably better going into the SB and weren't even favored but looked 100x more prepared).

 

2) Face a better Denver o-line this time around. Last year the Broncos played the Colts without a top 3 left tackle, but also two other o-lineman were playing either off the bench or outside their natural position. 

 

3) Denver's defense is lightyears ahead of their unit last year, at least on paper. 

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How to beat Peyton? Simple.

 

Rush him, blitz him, put him on the ground.

 

He does not like getting hit, he hasn't his entire career.

 

The Saints did it by rushing him and forcing him to pass early. That pick 6 was waiting to happen all night. They were begging him to throw the ball (and we didn't even hit him that much)

 

Seattle did the same thing, which isn't an excuse for his bad play. He was only sacked twice in that game cause he panics and throws it away once he gets pressured.

 

Make sure you also double cover and keep Thomas covered at all times. That's his new Reggie Wayne, Peyton likes keying on a guy he can throw to when he's blitzed.

 

I think overall, the Steelers set the blueprint for beating Manning. They were all over him in that playoff game, you could tell he was not ready for it.

 

Let him run the ball a little bit, he's not going to stick to the run. As long as you're mean to him and hit on him pretty good, he's bound to make some mistakes, it's his key thing in the playoffs.

 


 

3) Denver's defense is lightyears ahead of their unit last year, at least on paper. 

 

 

They still have a bad secondary, and John Fox is still an overrated horrible defensive minded coach.

 

They said the Eagles in 2011 "looked good on paper" too, and we all know what happened to the dream team.

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Pats and Seahawks did nothing wrong.  You just don't like your team lost fair and square.   So your GM cried.  waa waaa "We got picked on, we were bullied."  

 

That Colts/Pats game was no different than any other game.  And the NFL competition committee?  lol  [mod edit: no politics] Yeah no bias there.  Sure.

 

The bottom line is if the Colts were to have won that game using the same tactics the Pats did then Polian wouldn't have said anything.

 

Pereira says emphasis on illegal contact "didn't seem logical"...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/10/pereira-says-emphasis-on-illegal-contact-didnt-seem-logical/

 

But his broader point is an eye-opener.  Not only did Pereira make it clear that Polian pushed the “point of emphasis” through the Competition Committee, but Pereira also was refreshingly candid regarding his disagreement with the requirement that any contact with a receiver after five yards mandated a five-yard penalty and an automatic first down.

 
And it backfired.  Basically the Saints and other teams used the "Manning Rule" against Peyton's teams.
 
Bill Polian thought Peyton was the greatest QB in the game and believed the rules would benefit Peyton's team and no other QB in the game was capable of exploiting it.   Well then the Colts ran into the Steelers, Chargers and Saints in the post season after 2004.  And then Peyton ran into the Ravens and Seahawks.  After the Seahawks shellacked the Broncos, I bet Peyton, Fox and the Broncos' owner went crying to Goodell to start up their "arena football" league rules again.

 

 

No, the Pats and ( possibly ) Seahawks took advantage of lax officiating of the rules already in place. The Refs were wrong not calling the plays as they are suppose to. In 2003 and 2013.  I hope 2014 has >175 illegal contact and defensive holdings calls, just for you.  ;-)  And I hope they do call it frequent and tight here on out.  I want to see your reaction when they do...

 

Most desired is flags everywhere in the AFC and NFC championships and the Super Bowl, if warranted...

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Pats are using a 3-4 base D this year right?  I wonder why they don't use the 4-3 since that D has been winning most the super bowls the last 15 years?  (Ravens 2000, Bucs 2002, Patriots 2003, Colts 2006, Giants 2007, Saints 2009, Giants 2011, 2012 Ravens, 2013 Seahawks.

 

The best beat reporter for the Patriots, IMO, is Mike Reiss with ESPN Boston. He's posted quite a few articles recently about what the plans are on D. Check him out.

 

They'll play multiple fronts... at times, Jones and Ninko will line up as OLBs off the line, other times they'll be DEs. The team is a little thin behind Mayo, Collins, and Hightower, and BB always plays to his teams' strengths. You're going to see a lot of different combinations and substitutions depending on game plan, in-game situations, and other factors.

 

All that said they played 65% of their snaps last year in nickel and other sub-packages. It's more of a passing league obviously, and you're also going to see a lot of that. 

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No, the Pats and ( possibly ) Seahawks took advantage of lax officiating of the rules already in place. The Refs were wrong not calling the plays as they are suppose to. In 2003 and 2013.  I hope 2014 has >175 illegal contact and defensive holdings calls, just for you.  ;-)  And I hope they do call it frequent and tight here on out.  I want to see your reaction when they do...

 

Most desired is flags everywhere in the AFC and NFC championships and the Super Bowl, if warranted...

 

"No, the Pats and ( possibly ) Seahawks took advantage of lax officiating of the rules already in place."

 

No they didn't.  Colts and Broncos just got out played by better teams.

 

"The Refs were wrong not calling the plays as they are suppose to. In 2003 and 2013. "

 

No they were't.  There's no proof the defense were holding or grabbing more than usual.

 

" I hope 2014 has >175 illegal contact and defensive holdings calls, just for you."

 

lol @ that.  Probably the most immature juvenile delinquent comment on this board.  Wanting to ruin the game and have 5 hour long games with 30 penalties per game just to spite a fan and think that benefits the Colts.  What a corrupt mindset to want more penalties to think it benefits your team.  I've yet to see how more penalties benefits the Colts.  Contact your team and tell them to get tougher.

 

"And I hope they do call it frequent and tight here on out.  I want to see your reaction when they do..."

 

Another juvenile delinquent post.  But I hope you know there's not going to be anymore flags thrown this year.  It will be good to see your reaction and after the Pats knock the Colts out again by playing physical and the refs not throwing flags and Revis shutting down Wayne AGAIN!

 

 

Most desired is flags everywhere in the AFC and NFC championships and the Super Bowl, if warranted...

 

 

But that's not going to happen.  Sorry buddy, you'll be sitting on your couch in your stained Luck jersey cursing at your tv again.

 

 

And the flags aren't going to happen this year.  The Seahawks/Packers game had fewer flags than in the preseason.  The refs let the players play.

 

 

"Waaa waaaaa Reggie Wayne and TY aren't allowed to get 10 TD's a game and Luck isn't allowed to throw for 500 yards every game, it messes up my fantasy league waaa waaa waaa!"  lol

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No, the Pats and ( possibly ) Seahawks took advantage of lax officiating of the rules already in place. The Refs were wrong not calling the plays as they are suppose to. In 2003 and 2013.  I hope 2014 has >175 illegal contact and defensive holdings calls, just for you.  ;-)  And I hope they do call it frequent and tight here on out.  I want to see your reaction when they do...

 

Most desired is flags everywhere in the AFC and NFC championships and the Super Bowl, if warranted...

Its football...Not flag football. Im sick of the whining of over flags not called...Fact is you can create as many different penalties for safety measures and for the offense but players are still going to get hurt unless you put flags on these guys and points are still going to be scored, What we saw in the preseason was complete trash, The officials dominated a large majority of the preseason...And I hope to god they wont call it that close in the regular season...Because I simply wont watch as many games, That many flags should be unacceptable (237 through the first 3 weeks for Illegal contact, defensive holding, illegal use of hands)...Its really ridiculous, I don't expect it will carry into the season however...I seriously dont think the NFL wants to put the product that we saw out on the field in the preseason into the regular season and beyond...If a defensive player has an offensive player wrapped up then alright call it because that's blatant but all the little touch/brush fouls have to go http://www.mercurynews.com/sabercats/ci_26422719/rise-flags-makes-nfl-defenders-wary-contact

 

The link is where I got my source of # of flags called, I dont claim it to be accurate through 3 weeks

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"No, the Pats and ( possibly ) Seahawks took advantage of lax officiating of the rules already in place."

 

No they didn't.  Colts and Broncos just got out played by better teams.

 

"The Refs were wrong not calling the plays as they are suppose to. In 2003 and 2013. "

 

No they were't.  There's no proof the defense were holding or grabbing more than usual.

 

" I hope 2014 has >175 illegal contact and defensive holdings calls, just for you."

 

lol @ that.  Probably the most immature juvenile delinquent comment on this board.  Wanting to ruin the game and have 5 hour long games with 30 penalties per game just to spite a fan and think that benefits the Colts.  What a corrupt mindset to want more penalties to think it benefits your team.  I've yet to see how more penalties benefits the Colts.  Contact your team and tell them to get tougher.

 

"And I hope they do call it frequent and tight here on out.  I want to see your reaction when they do..."

 

Another juvenile delinquent post.  But I hope you know there's not going to be anymore flags thrown this year.  It will be good to see your reaction and after the Pats knock the Colts out again by playing physical and the refs not throwing flags and Revis shutting down Wayne AGAIN!

 

 

 

But that's not going to happen.  Sorry buddy, you'll be sitting on your couch in your stained Luck jersey cursing at your tv again.

 

 

And the flags aren't going to happen this year.  The Seahawks/Packers game had fewer flags than in the preseason.  The refs let the players play.

 

 

"Waaa waaaaa Reggie Wayne and TY aren't allowed to get 10 TD's a game and Luck isn't allowed to throw for 500 yards every game, it messes up my fantasy league waaa waaa waaa!"  lol

Wanting the rules to be followed is juvenile?  LOL

 

Not according to Blandino--

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/rise-flags-makes-nfl-defenders-wary-contact-25155642

 

If it  is a rule, call it or get it off the books.  I'm tired of Refs being able to selectively decide games by either calling those plays or deciding on a whim to let it go.The best athletes will be able to adjust and still defend with out having to grab arms and jerseys to stay with his guy.

 

I do not think Blandino goes on record with this position, and doesn't let it come to fruition.   So brace yourself just in case.

 

But if the players stop  grabbing and hand fighting (pushing off, either side) down the field the NFL will have won without changing the rules or getting excessive yellow flags.  But let us see what the whole season brings, then decide.

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Its football...Not flag football. Im sick of the whining of over flags not called...Fact is you can create as many different penalties for safety measures and for the offense but players are still going to get hurt unless you put flags on these guys and points are still going to be scored, What we saw in the preseason was complete trash, The officials dominated a large majority of the preseason...And I hope to god they wont call it that close in the regular season...Because I simply wont watch as many games, That many flags should be unacceptable (237 through the first 3 weeks for Illegal contact, defensive holding, illegal use of hands)...Its really ridiculous, I don't expect it will carry into the season however...I seriously dont think the NFL wants to put the product that we saw out on the field in the preseason into the regular season and beyond...If a defensive player has an offensive player wrapped up then alright call it because that's blatant but all the little touch/brush fouls have to go http://www.mercurynews.com/sabercats/ci_26422719/rise-flags-makes-nfl-defenders-wary-contact

 

The link is where I got my source of # of flags called, I dont claim it to be accurate through 3 weeks

 

Nope, the touch fouls will be called until players adjust, it is the NFL's strategy, not the other way around.

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/8/28/6074601/nfl-penalties-increase-2014-illegal-contact

 

as mentioned, if you have mastered the jam within the 5 yards, you'll do fine.  Seahawks do this well, yet Pete Carroll is still worried.  I think some officials will not make the very close call (right near the 5 yard demarcation point) but will id the rule is violated.  Exppect a spike in illegal contact calls this year.  But not like in pre-season.  Players will get better, and officials won't make the iffy calls.  But it will go up or the competition committee will have failed.

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