Pep Hamilton now preaching balanced Colts' offense

[NewColtsFan]

There, I used 3 likes for yours. 

 

I fully appreciate people opinion on O schemes and respect those preferring a Bill Walsh / West Coast derived system rather than one derive from Don Coryell / Vertical passing attack.  We did discuss a lot, and i learned much from that and helped me adjust for 2013. ;)

 

Norv has changed some off the scheme, I wonder if his tight end wasn't stellar and his RB was?  I know his receivers were tall leapers, not Charlie Joiner-esque. I'll look into it further.  Coryell had Fouts, Joiner, and Winslow. Arians had Luck, Fleener, Allen, and Reggie Wayne (maybe the big reason for the Pagano plea to Reggie to re-sign with us).  Arians had weapons (and an emerging TY) so need to use RB's in the passing scheme.  I know folks were mad because they were called to stay in to help O line block, and often didn't release in time to be an effective safety valve.  So Luck was forcing it downfield because the RB wasn't clear into an open zone yet. I get it.  Other times, the RB was on a late dig or in the flat and Luck threw it into coverage anyway.  Bruce didn't throw it, Luck did. and I know some fans feels it is because of that playcall that Luck did it.  But I just want to point out, coaches know there have to be options, and incorporate them.  It isn't always run correctly, and sometimes the QB doesn't see it and makes a wrong choice.  It just don't agree it was 98% Bruce, 1.75% O line, and 0.25% Luck, is what I'm getting at.  ;)

 

Oh yeah, link-

 

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/20130719arizona-cardinals-head-coach-bruce-arians-style-years-making.html

 

Very nice post....

 

And though it's not Colts-specific, I just wanted to add that those Coryell Chargers also had two other WR's (not together, but one after the other)  that were both fantastic...   one had Hall of Fame talent.     San Diego had John Jefferson for 3-4 years, until the owner committed one of the all-time great owner brain farts and traded him, and to replace JJ, the Chargers got another terrific talent which was Wes Chandler.     Those guys along with Joyner and Kellen Winslow made for perhaps the greatest passing group of all-time...   add HoF Dan Fouts and an unbelievable RB in Chuck Muncie, and those Chargers were downright scary!

 

For a few years in the late 70's early 80's, there was no team more fun to watch.......   those were the days!     

[Superman]

There, I used 3 likes for yours. 

 

I fully appreciate people opinion on O schemes and respect those preferring a Bill Walsh / West Coast derived system rather than one derive from Don Coryell / Vertical passing attack.  We did discuss a lot, and i learned much from that and helped me adjust for 2013. ;)

 

Norv has changed some off the scheme, I wonder if his tight end wasn't stellar and his RB was?  I know his receivers were tall leapers, not Charlie Joiner-esque. I'll look into it further.  Coryell had Fouts, Joiner, and Winslow. Arians had Luck, Fleener, Allen, and Reggie Wayne (maybe the big reason for the Pagano plea to Reggie to re-sign with us).  Arians had weapons (and an emerging TY) so need to use RB's in the passing scheme.  I know folks were mad because they were called to stay in to help O line block, and often didn't release in time to be an effective safety valve.  So Luck was forcing it downfield because the RB wasn't clear into an open zone yet. I get it.  Other times, the RB was on a late dig or in the flat and Luck threw it into coverage anyway.  Bruce didn't throw it, Luck did. and I know some fans feels it is because of that playcall that Luck did it.  But I just want to point out, coaches know there have to be options, and incorporate them.  It isn't always run correctly, and sometimes the QB doesn't see it and makes a wrong choice.  It just don't agree it was 98% Bruce, 1.75% O line, and 0.25% Luck, is what I'm getting at.  ;)

 

Oh yeah, link-

 

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/20130719arizona-cardinals-head-coach-bruce-arians-style-years-making.html

 

Good stuff. Thanks for the link. 

 

About Arians' not throwing to backs, no, he's not the one making the throws. But it's more philosophy than execution. He said so himself: http://blog.azcardinals.com/2013/02/19/catches-from-the-backfield/

 

Now, to his credit, he found a weapon in Andre Ellington, and they got him involved in the passing game plenty, with a lot of success. To me, that's one of the marks of a good coach: you put your players in position to be effective, which is what he tried to do with Luck. He also had Tom Moore in his ear last year, and we know Tom Moore likes to throw to backs. Route combinations also dictate to a certain extent where the ball goes. No, it's not 98% Arians, .25% Luck. But it is Arians' philosophy. And when you make the decision to live and die by the arm of your rookie QB -- no matter how special he is -- you are responsible for the outcome. I just think there were deliberate choices with Arians' system, and they weren't made with an eye on efficiency.

 

You mentioned another distinction between Turner and Arians, and that's the size of the receivers. I don't know how much input Arians had into personnel decisions in Pittsburgh and Indianapolis, but they never had the big receivers that Norv always seemed to have, especially in SD. I also don't know what input Turner had, so maybe that's not so much an issue, but it did seem to influence the way those receivers were used, especially close to the endzone. Vincent Jackson is a much bigger target than Mike Wallace.

 

So for me, it's never been about West Coast vs Coryell. Every offense has its variations, based on the person building the playbook and installing the gameplan. That's why Norv Turner and Bruce Arians can look so different from each other. I just wanted some minor tweaks from Arians. He's gone now, so it's a moot point.

 

Now, I'm more interested in Pep Hamilton using the weapons he has more effectively, especially on third down. Ironically, our third downs were shorter in 2013, but we converted a lower percentage. Some of that has to do with the injuries to Allen, Wayne and Ballard, who were the best at their positions on the team in 2012. The stagnation after Reggie got hurt was awful, and skewed the overall stats as well. But Pep has to empower Luck's playmaking ability, and Luck needs to make decisions more quickly, not only about where to throw, but about when to bail out and make a play with his legs. Like you said earlier, Luck has a lot of room for improvement himself.

[BOTT]

I get amused sometimes when we talk about coaches, OC's, and their schemes.  This time, I was prompted to thinking and comparing Bruce Arians, vs. Norv Turner.  Preamble-  Arians and Turner are descendant disciples of the Air Coryell vertical passing scheme; which was itself a modified Sid Gillman philosophy.  Arians learned it from Tom Moore, and Turner from Ernie Zampese.  Now for the funny part - (at least, it was to me)

 

How do you Feel about Bruce Arians as an Offense Coordinator?

How do you Feel about Bruce Arians as a Head Coach?

 

How do you Feel about Norv Turner as an Offense Coordinator?

How do you Feel about Norv Turner as a Head Coach?

 

I'm going to mention something here that will get me in trouble.  But it is true.  Luck, as a rookie, was not quite mature and adjusted to the NFL game to take maximum advantage of Arians scheme's.  Luck's talent and on the fly learning made success stories, not just as the season progressed, but often as each game progressed.  As a disciple of Tom Moore, Arians had constructed a fairly quarterback-friendly (depends on your definition, this is from a QB perspective) offense that places the onus on the signal caller to make sound decisions at the line. From calling pass protections to pointing out potential hot reads, Arians system makes the quarterback accountable for all aspects of the offense.  Luck often targeted the 1 read too long and not check down to the safety valve, or misread a blitz/defense and called the wrong protections.  Usually these mistakes were costly, which made folks mad (interception, or big time QB hits- 122 I believe all year 2012) to his body. There were many times Luck came off the field yelling 'my bad' and Arians pat him on the head and saying there are times to look for and go for the homerun, and that spot wasn't it.  Of course the O line was horrific then too.  So, there's blame to share all around that year, not just Bruce.

 

Interesting factoid, right after Arians took over for Pagano, he was contemplating how to win the next game.  His son Jake came to Indy and the conversation took place-

 

* At lunch Tuesday, Arians confided that he was contemplating a big decision.

“Really? Second day on the job?” Jake said.

 

“I’m thinking of going no-huddle against the Packers. I think it’s the only way we can beat them,” Arians said.

 

“With a rookie quarterback?” Jake asked.

 

“He ain’t the one I’m worried about,” Arians replied. *

 

So, Arians knew what he was going to get from his QB, and he expected much of it to be quite good, rookie or no.  If not for Pagano's misfortune, Arians (a prostate cancer survivor as well) would never would have gotten the opportunity to get a HC job- one he is being praised for right now. 

Except Arians took Moore's playbook and ripped out all the subtlety. And honestly, I think you are just talking over you head.

[Jay Kirk]

They have always discussed balance in the offense even WITH the :Power Running."

 

This article is nothing new and a true waste of time.  Good Post NCF!

 

Our 3 runners are all power runners.....with Allen blocking along with the tackles and new OL help (Mewhort) I am looking forward to what we can achieve.

We were discussing this earlier today before I seen this post ,with You on this 100%.

[SilentHill]

Everyone knows that every coach in the NFL preaches a "balanced" offense. Right?

[BrentMc11]

Everyone knows that every coach in the NFL preaches a "balanced" offense. Right?

Air Coryell?  

[ColtsBlueFL]

Except Arians took Moore's playbook and ripped out all the subtlety. And honestly, I think you are just talking over you head.

 

Ahhh, that's it.  That and 42.  Now all is right with the world.  Thanks Mr. Pot. Signed, Kettle.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Good stuff. Thanks for the link. 

 

About Arians' not throwing to backs, no, he's not the one making the throws. But it's more philosophy than execution. He said so himself: http://blog.azcardinals.com/2013/02/19/catches-from-the-backfield/

 

Now, to his credit, he found a weapon in Andre Ellington, and they got him involved in the passing game plenty, with a lot of success. To me, that's one of the marks of a good coach: you put your players in position to be effective, which is what he tried to do with Luck. He also had Tom Moore in his ear last year, and we know Tom Moore likes to throw to backs. Route combinations also dictate to a certain extent where the ball goes. No, it's not 98% Arians, .25% Luck. But it is Arians' philosophy. And when you make the decision to live and die by the arm of your rookie QB -- no matter how special he is -- you are responsible for the outcome. I just think there were deliberate choices with Arians' system, and they weren't made with an eye on efficiency.

 

You mentioned another distinction between Turner and Arians, and that's the size of the receivers. I don't know how much input Arians had into personnel decisions in Pittsburgh and Indianapolis, but they never had the big receivers that Norv always seemed to have, especially in SD. I also don't know what input Turner had, so maybe that's not so much an issue, but it did seem to influence the way those receivers were used, especially close to the endzone. Vincent Jackson is a much bigger target than Mike Wallace.

 

So for me, it's never been about West Coast vs Coryell. Every offense has its variations, based on the person building the playbook and installing the gameplan. That's why Norv Turner and Bruce Arians can look so different from each other. I just wanted some minor tweaks from Arians. He's gone now, so it's a moot point.

 

Now, I'm more interested in Pep Hamilton using the weapons he has more effectively, especially on third down. Ironically, our third downs were shorter in 2013, but we converted a lower percentage. Some of that has to do with the injuries to Allen, Wayne and Ballard, who were the best at their positions on the team in 2012. The stagnation after Reggie got hurt was awful, and skewed the overall stats as well. But Pep has to empower Luck's playmaking ability, and Luck needs to make decisions more quickly, not only about where to throw, but about when to bail out and make a play with his legs. Like you said earlier, Luck has a lot of room for improvement himself.

 

Oh, no bones about it.  Arians throws to the RB's as last resort. However, they DO have a default route to run, after their blocking read and assignment. Sometimes the blitzing and crappy blocking of the O line didn't allow for the back to slip off and get in pattern. Other times the back held blocks too long. Other times they did it right- read block, block the player, slip out into pattern, and Luck decided not to go their way and force it to an earlier read.  But we know and agree Arians didn't have many (if any) plays where the RB was the #1 in a pass play.

 

And I agree, the only efficiency Arians system is designed to have is get big chunks of yards in as few plays as possible and get points up early and often.

[BOTT]

Ahhh, that's it.  That and 42.  Now all is right with the world.  Thanks Mr. Pot. Signed, Kettle.

Glad I could help

[throwing BBZ]

It failed because Richardson failed in the system, yet Donald Brown (not a power back but more of an elusive one), had much more success.

 

 Not really.

 It was so BAD because we lost Allen & Thomas up front and Ballard & Bradshaw to run it. Thornton Stunk along with those 3 guys who are GONE.

[throwing BBZ]

I believe Arians is a good coach period. 

 

He earned his shot as a head coach, and he is doing a great job, in the toughest division in football.

 

 That is the Arians who was heading home thinking his coaching career was over. Who won a bunch of games coaching a bad team, with his predictable O, that managed to beat a bunch of Other bad teams in the 4th quarter.  Seven or so Head Coaching jobs open up Every year and he just happened to be having his 15 Minutes of fame.

 He did fine last year with a VG D he inherited and some good offensive talent. lol

[AntonMcG]

I get amused sometimes when we talk about coaches, OC's, and their schemes.  This time, I was prompted to thinking and comparing Bruce Arians, vs. Norv Turner.  Preamble-  Arians and Turner are descendant disciples of the Air Coryell vertical passing scheme; which was itself a modified Sid Gillman philosophy.  Arians learned it from Tom Moore, and Turner from Ernie Zampese.  Now for the funny part - (at least, it was to me)

 

How do you Feel about Bruce Arians as an Offense Coordinator?

How do you Feel about Bruce Arians as a Head Coach?

 

How do you Feel about Norv Turner as an Offense Coordinator?

How do you Feel about Norv Turner as a Head Coach?

 

I'm going to mention something here that will get me in trouble.  But it is true.  Luck, as a rookie, was not quite mature and adjusted to the NFL game to take maximum advantage of Arians scheme's.  Luck's talent and on the fly learning made success stories, not just as the season progressed, but often as each game progressed.  As a disciple of Tom Moore, Arians had constructed a fairly quarterback-friendly (depends on your definition, this is from a QB perspective) offense that places the onus on the signal caller to make sound decisions at the line. From calling pass protections to pointing out potential hot reads, Arians system makes the quarterback accountable for all aspects of the offense.  Luck often targeted the 1 read too long and not check down to the safety valve, or misread a blitz/defense and called the wrong protections.  Usually these mistakes were costly, which made folks mad (interception, or big time QB hits- 122 I believe all year 2012) to his body. There were many times Luck came off the field yelling 'my bad' and Arians pat him on the head and saying there are times to look for and go for the homerun, and that spot wasn't it.  Of course the O line was horrific then too.  So, there's blame to share all around that year, not just Bruce.

 

Interesting factoid, right after Arians took over for Pagano, he was contemplating how to win the next game.  His son Jake came to Indy and the conversation took place-

 

* At lunch Tuesday, Arians confided that he was contemplating a big decision.

“Really? Second day on the job?” Jake said.

 

“I’m thinking of going no-huddle against the Packers. I think it’s the only way we can beat them,” Arians said.

 

“With a rookie quarterback?” Jake asked.

 

“He ain’t the one I’m worried about,” Arians replied. *

 

So, Arians knew what he was going to get from his QB, and he expected much of it to be quite good, rookie or no.  If not for Pagano's misfortune, Arians (a prostate cancer survivor as well) would never would have gotten the opportunity to get a HC job- one he is being praisend for right now. 

 

Great post and mirroring a lot of my viewpoints. People here loved to criticize Arians scheme because they had such an affinity with clean stats and have this "control the clock" obsession. There is more than one way to play football and Arians system is a breath of fresh air and had massive potential with competent o-Line and Luck at the helm... it opened up the field so much and made use of every inch.

 

People forget what the offense achieved with a bunch of rookies... perhaps more than what was achieved last year at times with those same rookies a year more advanced.

 

A good gauge of Arians ability as a coordinator is the love his QBs had for him... ask Luck or Roesthlisberger if they would have Arians back and they would snap your fingers off. Roesthlisberger was  enjoying his best statistical year when Arians left but nowhere near his best year  performance wise, and he made it very clear that he wanted Arians back.

 

Yes, you could make arguments for a lack of check downs being available sometimes and fairly unsophisticated routes... but I would put much of the down to the rawness or a young receiving core at the time.

 

All in all I think Arians system would have produced more last year than what we saw, but like I said, there is more than one way to play football and hopefully we have the foundations in place for a solid system here. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

 That is the Arians who was heading home thinking his coaching career was over. Who won a bunch of games coaching a bad team, with his predictable O, that managed to beat a bunch of Other bad teams in the 4th quarter.  Seven or so Head Coaching jobs open up Every year and he just happened to be having his 15 Minutes of fame.

 He did fine last year with a VG D he inherited and some good offensive talent. lol

 

Who was the HC that lost his job to Arians?  Whisenhunt?  Arians followed him in Pittsburgh as OC, and now in AZ as HC.  So, what damage did Whiz do with that AZ group?  45-51 over 6 years, 2 playoffs appearance and 1 SB showing (loss), but it was a few years back. No playoffs in his last 3 years.

 

So Whiz goes to San Diego as an OC and takes them from 31st O to #5.  Arians takes Whiz HC job and takes them from 5 - 11 to 10 - 6 where two other teams in your division are 13 - 3 and 12 - 4?  Wow!

 

So do we have Norval Turner #2 here? Even though he ran the ball in Pittsburgh 60% in 2004 and 2005.  In 2006 when they passed 60% of all plays, Roethlisburgers numbers were absolutely horrid.

 

Arians inherited most of what AZ fielded in 2013, but Whiz was sub .500 with that same group of folks he was compiling..

[Superman]

Who was the HC that lost his job to Arians?  Whisenhunt?  Arians followed him in Pittsburgh as OC, and now in AZ as HC.  So, what damage did Whiz do with that AZ group?  45-51 over 6 years, 2 playoffs appearance and 1 SB showing (loss), but it was a few years back. No playoffs in his last 3 years.

 

So Whiz goes to San Diego as an OC and takes them from 31st O to #5.  Arians takes Whiz HC job and takes them from 5 - 11 to 10 - 6 where two other teams in your division are 13 - 3 and 12 - 4?  Wow!

 

So do we have Norval Turner #2 here? Even though he ran the ball in Pittsburgh 60% in 2004 and 2005.  In 2006 when they passed 60% of all plays, Roethlisburgers numbers were absolutely horrid.

 

Arians inherited most of what AZ fielded in 2013, but Whiz was sub .500 with that same group of folks he was compiling..

 

Just want to point out that Roethlisberger was a rookie in 2004, so it's not surprising that they ran the ball so much. Of course, that was with Whisenhunt calling the plays.

 

Coincidental that Arians followed Whisenhunt in Pittsburgh as the OC, then followed him in Arizona as the head coach. The turnaround in Pittsburgh is probably more about Roethlisberger developing, but Arians did a good job fixing some things with the Cardinals. But he again got some help with Carson Palmer, as compared with the lower-level passers Whisenhunt had in 2012. Wasn't quite the same group of folks.

[TKnight24]

Interestingly enough, during all of his years in Pittsburgh, Arians never worked for a HC who contracted leukemia and had to sit out the remainder of the regular season allowing Bruce to take over. But I'm sure Arians getting a HC job the year immediately following that exact scenario taking place is just a coincidence right? It was all Andrew Luck.

Sarcasm off

All Andrew Luck, no question

You seriously can't tell me Andrew isn't the reason we win 94% of our games

Arians had nothing to do with it except calling the plays

It's numerous plays I can list that came down to Andrew, Reggie, or Hilton being the cause of it working instead of Bruce

You guys are giving Bruce way too much credit

[Jason_]

All Andrew Luck, no question

You seriously can't tell me Andrew isn't the reason we win 94% of our games

Arians had nothing to do with it except calling the plays

It's numerous plays I can list that came down to Andrew, Reggie, or Hilton being the cause of it working instead of Bruce

You guys are giving Bruce way too much credit

 

dear god

[TKnight24]

dear god

You can dear god, facepalm, turn your screen off, or whatever you feel

Bottom line, Bruce is trash as a HC & even worse as a OC with his boom or bust offense

Glad he's out of Indianapolis

[John Waylon]

At least now we wont live and die (mostly die) by trying to run the ball like we have an all pro offensive line.

[Malakai432]

Pep Hamilton doesn't do what Pep Hamilton does for Pep Hamilton. Pep Hamilton does what Pep Hamilton does because Pep Hamilton is......... Pep Hamilton.

[Surge89]

Great post and mirroring a lot of my viewpoints. People here loved to criticize Arians scheme because they had such an affinity with clean stats and have this "control the clock" obsession. There is more than one way to play football and Arians system is a breath of fresh air and had massive potential with competent o-Line and Luck at the helm... it opened up the field so much and made use of every inch.

People forget what the offense achieved with a bunch of rookies... perhaps more than what was achieved last year at times with those same rookies a year more advanced.

A good gauge of Arians ability as a coordinator is the love his QBs had for him... ask Luck or Roesthlisberger if they would have Arians back and they would snap your fingers off. Roesthlisberger was enjoying his best statistical year when Arians left but nowhere near his best year performance wise, and he made it very clear that he wanted Arians back.

Yes, you could make arguments for a lack of check downs being available sometimes and fairly unsophisticated routes... but I would put much of the down to the rawness or a young receiving core at the time.

All in all I think Arians system would have produced more last year than what we saw, but like I said, there is more than one way to play football and hopefully we have the foundations in place for a solid system here.

Well this is a first. I disagree with one part of your post lol :-)

I don't think you can gauge an OC by QB likeability. It is completely natural for QBs to love Arians, because he empowers the QB like no other. If you're in the NFL you want your coach to give you as much of a chance to throw as you can and Arians style is very liberal when it comes to slinging the ball.

Rest I agree per the norm :-)

[BlueShoe]

I get amused sometimes when we talk about coaches, OC's, and their schemes.  This time, I was prompted to thinking and comparing Bruce Arians, vs. Norv Turner.  Preamble-  Arians and Turner are descendant disciples of the Air Coryell vertical passing scheme; which was itself a modified Sid Gillman philosophy.  Arians learned it from Tom Moore, and Turner from Ernie Zampese.  Now for the funny part - (at least, it was to me)

 

How do you Feel about Bruce Arians as an Offense Coordinator?

How do you Feel about Bruce Arians as a Head Coach?

 

How do you Feel about Norv Turner as an Offense Coordinator?

How do you Feel about Norv Turner as a Head Coach?

 

I'm going to mention something here that will get me in trouble.  But it is true.  Luck, as a rookie, was not quite mature and adjusted to the NFL game to take maximum advantage of Arians scheme's.  Luck's talent and on the fly learning made success stories, not just as the season progressed, but often as each game progressed.  As a disciple of Tom Moore, Arians had constructed a fairly quarterback-friendly (depends on your definition, this is from a QB perspective) offense that places the onus on the signal caller to make sound decisions at the line. From calling pass protections to pointing out potential hot reads, Arians system makes the quarterback accountable for all aspects of the offense.  Luck often targeted the 1 read too long and not check down to the safety valve, or misread a blitz/defense and called the wrong protections.  Usually these mistakes were costly, which made folks mad (interception, or big time QB hits- 122 I believe all year 2012) to his body. There were many times Luck came off the field yelling 'my bad' and Arians pat him on the head and saying there are times to look for and go for the homerun, and that spot wasn't it.  Of course the O line was horrific then too.  So, there's blame to share all around that year, not just Bruce.

 

Interesting factoid, right after Arians took over for Pagano, he was contemplating how to win the next game.  His son Jake came to Indy and the conversation took place-

 

* At lunch Tuesday, Arians confided that he was contemplating a big decision.

“Really? Second day on the job?” Jake said.

 

“I’m thinking of going no-huddle against the Packers. I think it’s the only way we can beat them,” Arians said.

 

“With a rookie quarterback?” Jake asked.

 

“He ain’t the one I’m worried about,” Arians replied. *

 

So, Arians knew what he was going to get from his QB, and he expected much of it to be quite good, rookie or no.  If not for Pagano's misfortune, Arians (a prostate cancer survivor as well) would never would have gotten the opportunity to get a HC job- one he is being praised for right now. 

 

I am going to rest my thoughts of this topic with your post. 

 

Well done, Sir!

 

Well done indeed.

[Superman]

Well this is a first. I disagree with one part of your post lol :-)

I don't think you can gauge an OC by QB likeability. It is completely natural for QBs to love Arians, because he empowers the QB like no other. If you're in the NFL you want your coach to give you as much of a chance to throw as you can and Arians style is very liberal when it comes to slinging the ball.

Rest I agree per the norm :-)

I agree. There's no question that Arians is a likable guy, regardless of his football philosophy. But when the coordinator encourages the QB to be a gunslinger, you probably won't hear too much of a complaint from the QB. Not surprisingly, his QBs always speak fondly of him.

[AntonMcG]

Well this is a first. I disagree with one part of your post lol :-)

I don't think you can gauge an OC by QB likeability. It is completely natural for QBs to love Arians, because he empowers the QB like no other. If you're in the NFL you want your coach to give you as much of a chance to throw as you can and Arians style is very liberal when it comes to slinging the ball.

Rest I agree per the norm :-)

 

 

I agree. There's no question that Arians is a likable guy, regardless of his football philosophy. But when the coordinator encourages the QB to be a gunslinger, you probably won't hear too much of a complaint from the QB. Not surprisingly, his QBs always speak fondly of him.

 

Yeah, I definitely considered that notion... but most QBs care first and foremost about winning championships... and Luck more than most would want to be in the best position to win, not neccasarily the one with all the acclaim.

 

I feel like Arians system did not get a chance to go through the appropriate refinement process considering we were heavily reliant on rookies, and the success of the scheme is predicated on an o-line that allows for a 5 step drop and sufficient time to make your progression reads. Of course that wasn't the case this past year either, but maybe more would have been invested in the line if Arians was still here last year... who knows.

 

Anyway, as I said, there is no one definitive scheme or philosophy to play offense, some are fans of certain systems and not of others. Personally, I think we had huge potential with Arians at the helm.

[AntonMcG]

I agree. There's no question that Arians is a likable guy, regardless of his football philosophy. But when the coordinator encourages the QB to be a gunslinger, you probably won't hear too much of a complaint from the QB. Not surprisingly, his QBs always speak fondly of him.

 

I get the feeling quite a few QBs in the league care far too much about clean stats... in which case Arians' system would not be their first choice.

[BrentMc11]

You can dear god, facepalm, turn your screen off, or whatever you feel

Bottom line, Bruce is trash as a HC & even worse as a OC with his boom or bust offense

Glad he's out of Indianapolis

Like him or not, Arians did a great job in Coach Pagano's absence, and did a very nice job in his first year with the Arizona Cardinals.

 

I think we have some young guys and gals on here that totally disrespect coaches and players alike.  Arians has been coaching since 1975 and someone not even born 'close to then calls him "trash."

 

We would NOT have gone 11-5 without him in 2012.....period...exclamation point.

 

I hope some of these negative comments were made due to being upset at a post, because they are flat out wrong.

[Surge89]

Yeah, I definitely considered that notion... but most QBs care first and foremost about winning championships... and Luck more than most would want to be in the best position to win, not neccasarily the one with all the acclaim.

I feel like Arians system did not get a chance to go through the appropriate refinement process considering we were heavily reliant on rookies, and the success of the scheme is predicated on an o-line that allows for a 5 step drop and sufficient time to make your progression reads. Of course that wasn't the case this past year either, but maybe more would have been invested in the line if Arians was still here last year... who knows.

Anyway, as I said, there is no one definitive scheme or philosophy to play offense, some are fans of certain systems and not of others. Personally, I think we had huge potential with Arians at the helm.

I think you have a very valid argument here. Arians never had the talent in Pit that we had here. He "may" have done something special, it definitely would have been interesting (yet frustrating for me) to watch lol.

One further thought on that though. I watch a whole bunch of steelers games (wife is a pit fan) and Arians offense's had a knack for underwhelming. Then again the talent wasn't extremely high at the receiver position so... it's whatever lol

[colts_100nascar17fan]

Hopefully if they end up trying to play smash mouth football,ballard is 100% himself again cuz trent will always suck and bradshaw gets hurt alot....no donald brown to fall back on.

[Superman]

I get the feeling quite a few QBs in the league care far too much about clean stats... in which case Arians' system would not be their first choice.

 

I think a lot of QBs are risk averse, not wanting to make big mistakes. So you'll have guys with high efficiency numbers, but not a lot of playmaking ability, like Alex Smith. And that's good for him, because it's about to earn him a big contract. But that's not the kind of guy I'd want running my offense, and I don't think he'd be a fit in Bruce Arians offense, and that's probably why they backed off and went with Carson Palmer instead.

 

I don't think that applies to any of the really good QBs in the league, and I definitely don't think it applies to our QB. 

[Superman]

Yeah, I definitely considered that notion... but most QBs care first and foremost about winning championships... and Luck more than most would want to be in the best position to win, not neccasarily the one with all the acclaim.

 

I feel like Arians system did not get a chance to go through the appropriate refinement process considering we were heavily reliant on rookies, and the success of the scheme is predicated on an o-line that allows for a 5 step drop and sufficient time to make your progression reads. Of course that wasn't the case this past year either, but maybe more would have been invested in the line if Arians was still here last year... who knows.

 

Anyway, as I said, there is no one definitive scheme or philosophy to play offense, some are fans of certain systems and not of others. Personally, I think we had huge potential with Arians at the helm.

 

I'm not sure what more investment we might have made in the offensive line last year. Grigson signed two free agents, and drafted two future starters. Then he and the coaching staff (and the owner) spent the next nine months talking about a power running game and improving the play of the offensive line. Can't imagine Arians convincing them to do more about the line, but I do think he'd have thrown the ball more, and our offense probably wouldn't have struggled as much when Reggie went down.

 

I just don't like a lot of his game theory, and how it affects his playcalling, the route combinations, the pressure it puts on the offensive line and the QB (especially when the line sucks or the QB is struggling), etc. Overall, I just don't like the philosophy, and while I think it might have helped at times last year, I don't think it would have been good for Luck and the offense long-term. JMO.

 

You're absolutely right that there's no one right way to play offense, and so I recognize that my opinion is not gospel, but if it were up to me -- it's obviously not, never was and never will be -- I wouldn't have hired Arians in the first place. It's a good thing Pagano did, because it's hard to imagine anyone else stepping in the way Arians did, so there's that. I'm just not a fan of the system, the playcalling, etc.