Pep Hamilton now preaching balanced Colts' offense

[OldSchoolColt]

Not sure what the addition of Rob Chudzinski to the Colts coaching staff will mean as far as offense changes goes, but you know he will have significant input. I like how he is known as a tight-end friendly coach.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24435988/colts-hire-rob-chudzinski-as-special-assistant-to-head-coach

[BlueShoe]

Luck's life insurance policy got 50% cheaper when Bruce left town.

 

His insurance agent must be pretty ticked off about that.

[Superman]

Unfortunately statements like this don't go over well on team message boards. The idea is to talk up the current player, coach, or GM and talk down the former player, coach, or GM.

 

If the shoe was on the other foot then most people here would say that they liked Arians more. Bruce left the building; so now, he was obviously never good to begin with. 

 

I am with you though. I hope Pep can become as good as Arians one day, but that day is not today. It will take some time.

 

Nope.

 

Plenty of people on this message board were unimpressed with the Arians hire, and were critical of his gameplanning and playcalling throughout the 2012 season. I was one of them. He did a very nice job taking over for Pagano, but I continued to dislike his management of the offense.

 

And I'm not a Pep Hamilton fanboy, either. But this isn't a case of pretending I never liked the guy who decided to leave. Don't know why that's so hard to believe.

[BlueShoe]

Nope.

 

Plenty of people on this message board were unimpressed with the Arians hire, and were critical of his gameplanning and playcalling throughout the 2012 season. I was one of them. He did a very nice job taking over for Pagano, but I continued to dislike his management of the offense.

 

And I'm not a Pep Hamilton fanboy, either. But this isn't a case of pretending I never liked the guy who decided to leave. Don't know why that's so hard to believe.

 

Bruce Arians - 2 Super Bowl appearances and 1 ring. Coach of the year as an interim head coach. Led the Arizona Cardinals to 10 wins as a head coach, with his offense. 

 

Yeah, he sucks!

[Superman]

Bruce Arians - 2 Super Bowl appearances and 1 ring. Coach of the year as an interim head coach. Led the Arizona Cardinals to 10 wins as a head coach, with his offense. 

 

Yeah, he sucks!

 

Jim Caldwell, three Super Bowl appearances, one as a head coach, two rings. Has a 14-2 season under his belt as a head coach. Do you want him to run our offense?

 

Do you want Tony Dungy back as our defensive coordinator? He has a heck of a resume also. 

 

I have mad respect for Bruce Arians. He did a heck of a job for us in 2012, and he's doing a great job in Arizona. I'm very happy for him. But I don't like his offense, I don't like his offensive gameplanning or playcalling, I don't like the boom-or-bust nature of his offense, etc. Perhaps that's a matter of opinion; you don't have to agree with it, and you're not wrong for not agreeing with it. But I take exception to the idea that people only have a problem with him now that he's gone. That's annoying.

[Surge89]

Bruce Arians - 2 Super Bowl appearances and 1 ring. Coach of the year as an interim head coach. Led the Arizona Cardinals to 10 wins as a head coach, with his offense.

Yeah, he sucks!

Open your eyes...

Arians is a horrid offensive play caller. He gets his QBs killed and entrenchs them with bad habits. He repeatedly has done this and never has shown anything else.

All that aside he is one heck of a head coach he can motivate and gather a team. I'm glad he's doing great in Arizona and I'm glad he got us through our year of no Pagano. But I dont miss his offense at all.

[Surge89]

I will never understand why coaches are so reluctant to change. Anyone with two eyes could see the offense was better under Arians. You have one of the best QB's in the league and you want to power run....ok

The offense was no where near as efficient under Arians and that was with half of the offensive starters hurt.

Reluctant to change? We've seen what happens when you put it all in your QBs hands... he only plays one side of the team and has to be perfect every game... yea no thanks.

[Surge89]

Nope.

Plenty of people on this message board were unimpressed with the Arians hire, and were critical of his gameplanning and playcalling throughout the 2012 season. I was one of them. He did a very nice job taking over for Pagano, but I continued to dislike his management of the offense.

And I'm not a Pep Hamilton fanboy, either. But this isn't a case of pretending I never liked the guy who decided to leave. Don't know why that's so hard to believe.

The generalizations...

I recall approximately 70% of the forum that didn't like the hire. Heck Haley is still attempting to fix the bad habits Ben got from Arians. And Ben had statistically one of his best seasons...

[BlueShoe]

Jim Caldwell, three Super Bowl appearances, one as a head coach, two rings. Has a 14-2 season under his belt as a head coach. Do you want him to run our offense?

 

Do you want Tony Dungy back as our defensive coordinator? He has a heck of a resume also. 

 

I have mad respect for Bruce Arians. He did a heck of a job for us in 2012, and he's doing a great job in Arizona. I'm very happy for him. But I don't like his offense, I don't like his offensive gameplanning or playcalling, I don't like the boom-or-bust nature of his offense, etc. Perhaps that's a matter of opinion; you don't have to agree with it, and you're not wrong for not agreeing with it. But I take exception to the idea that people only have a problem with him now that he's gone. That's annoying.

 

JIm Caldwell had seasoned veterans and one veteran in particular who is the greatest quarterback of all-time. 

 

Bruce Arians led the Arizona Cardinals to 10 wins with Carson Palmer, in what is no doubt the toughest division in football. 

 

Caldwell managed to win 2 games without Peyton. 

 

And yes, most people do have a problem with Arians now that he is gone. I never pointed a finger straight at you. You know as well as I do that if Arians were still here then some of the same people who are bashing him would be supporting him. These boards have always been that way towards players, coaches, and GM's.

[BlueShoe]

Open your eyes...

Arians is a horrid offensive play caller. He gets his QBs killed and entrenchs them with bad habits. He repeatedly has done this and never has shown anything else.

All that aside he is one heck of a head coach he can motivate and gather a team. I'm glad he's doing great in Arizona and I'm glad he got us through our year of no Pagano. But I dont miss his offense at all.

 

Take your own advice and open your own eyes.

[Surge89]

Take your own advice and open your own eyes.

Look dunno if it's a "lately" thing on with you or what. But you speak in a matter of fact tone and have much to say that is just plain inaccurate and take no one else's input. You state as facts but don't have any...

1st I didn't address that you were pretty much dead wrong on the support on Arians. Almost no one on this board (or very little) blindly supported

2nd your only argument for Arians is his win record which you completely ignore that he had one of the most historic defensive seasons to take him to that Super Bowl win and a QB that often saves his OC by making miracle plays by running in circles for 10 seconds or more.

I've opened my eyes and seen his work. He isn't a good OC (see individual Stat improvements in Luck and Ben the season he leaves). Now he did impress as a head coach like I said before.

[Superman]

JIm Caldwell had seasoned veterans and one veteran in particular who is the greatest quarterback of all-time. 

 

Bruce Arians led the Arizona Cardinals to 10 wins with Carson Palmer, in what is no doubt the toughest division in football. 

 

Caldwell managed to win 2 games without Peyton. 

 

And yes, most people do have a problem with Arians now that he is gone. I never pointed a finger straight at you. You know as well as I do that if Arians were still here then some of the same people who are bashing him would be supporting him. These boards have always been that way towards players, coaches, and GM's.

 

All good reason not to make sweeping generalizations, if you ask me. 

 

A good record and headliner resume doesn't make a good coach. A good head coach isn't necessarily a good coordinator (I think Arians is a much better head coach than coordinator, personally). A good coordinator doesn't make a good head coach. So if I say I don't like Arians' offense, it's kind of pointless to tell me about his ring or his record with the Cardinals.

 

And I don't know how active you were in 2012, but there were plenty of people here that were critical of Arians. Many of them still are. I didn't notice a shift toward bashing him once he left. In fact, on the opposite end of the spectrum, there are some people who are critical of our decision to let him leave, even now. 

 

So yeah, your comment rankled me a bit. I was and still am critical of Arians' offense. I'm still here. 

[BlueShoe]

Look dunno if it's a "lately" thing on with you or what. But you speak in a matter of fact tone and have much to say that is just plain inaccurate and take no one else's input. You state as facts but don't have any...

1st I didn't address that you were pretty much dead wrong on the support on Arians. Almost no one on this board (or very little) blindly supported

2nd your only argument for Arians is his win record which you completely ignore that he had one of the most historic defensive seasons to take him to that Super Bowl win and a QB that often saves his OC by making miracle plays by running in circles for 10 seconds or more.

I've opened my eyes and seen his work. He isn't a good OC (see individual Stat improvements in Luck and Ben the season he leaves). Now he did impress as a head coach like I said before.

 

I disagree with you.

 

Sounds to me like you are taking offense to me having an opinion.

[BlueShoe]

All good reason not to make sweeping generalizations, if you ask me. 

 

A good record and headliner resume doesn't make a good coach. A good head coach isn't necessarily a good coordinator (I think Arians is a much better head coach than coordinator, personally). A good coordinator doesn't make a good head coach. So if I say I don't like Arians' offense, it's kind of pointless to tell me about his ring or his record with the Cardinals.

 

And I don't know how active you were in 2012, but there were plenty of people here that were critical of Arians. Many of them still are. I didn't notice a shift toward bashing him once he left. In fact, on the opposite end of the spectrum, there are some people who are critical of our decision to let him leave, even now. 

 

So yeah, your comment rankled me a bit. I was and still am critical of Arians' offense. I'm still here. 

 

I believe Arians is a good coach period. 

 

He earned his shot as a head coach, and he is doing a great job, in the toughest division in football.

[crazycolt1]

I will never understand why coaches are so reluctant to change. Anyone with two eyes could see the offense was better under Arians. You have one of the best QB's in the league and you want to power run....ok

The down side to the Arians offense was the potential for Luck to get injured. Every team in the NFL wants a balanced offense. I don't want to go back to the high flying offense as we used to have. It may be fun to watch but the end results are negative. The running game along with the special teams play is where championships are won. Having a strong running game keeps the ball away from the other team and also keeps our defense fresh and rested.

[Superman]

I believe Arians is a good coach period. 

 

He earned his shot as a head coach, and he is doing a great job, in the toughest division in football.

 

I agree with the second sentence. I'd qualify the first sentence by specifying that I think he's a good head coach. But that's just my opinion.

 

He absolutely earned his shot, and he deserved the chance to be a head coach. Some people here didn't even think he'd get interviews; he a ton of interest, from five or six teams, if I remember correctly. People thought he was too old, too recently fired by the Steelers, too tainted by his high sack offense, etc. I figured that teams would be highly interested in a coach who had just proved that he could handle the top job. So I agree, he's very deserving of his job now, and he is doing a really good job. The Cardinals certainly curb-stomped the Colts last year.

 

But I really, really don't like his offense. It probably had its benefits for Luck and the young receivers, allowing Luck to make plays and giving the receivers plenty of opportunities to run routes. But I don't like the passing concepts, I don't like the third down route combinations, I don't like Arians' playcalling (go watch the Chiefs game from 2012 to get an idea of what I mean; Luck was having a rookie-struggle game, and there was a stretch for over a quarter where we threw the ball on something like 17 out of 19 offensive plays, with virtually no success; it was Painter-esque). I could go on, but I'll spare you. This debate is out of date by over a year now. 

[AntonMcG]

Yes, Pep now has more toys to play with than he's ever had at Stanford...........

 

Whether he now knows what to do with them is another story.     I hope he does, but I don't know if he does.    I remain un-committed to Pep.     I have very mixed feelings about his first year as OC.    I feel better this 2nd year with a better roster to do what he wants to do.

 

But the best piece the Colts acquired this off-season (for me, at least)  remains Chudzinski.    I hope he makes sure that Pep keeps the offense running smoothly..........

 

Exactly, and this cannot be overstated.

 

Whilst Chudzinski will not be involved in playcalling activites, he will have a big part to play in the refinement of the offensive playbook, which, in my opinion, was much too lacking in versatility and dynamicness last year.

 

I think we will see a bit of a shift in offensive philosophy this year, and that is a big reason for the Chudzinski hire.

[BlueShoe]

Exactly, and this cannot be overstated.

 

Whilst Chudzinski will not be involved in playcalling activites, he will have a big part to play in the refinement of the offensive playbook, which, in my opinion, was much too lacking in versatility and dynamicness last year.

 

I think we will see a bit of a shift in offensive philosophy this year, and that is a big reason for the Chudzinski hire.

 

Agreed. Plus if Pep walks at the end of the year then we have a contingency plan in place. 

[crazycolt1]

Good. Pagano's power running scheme is a failure.

 

Maybe not this year with an "improved" offensive line but who knows.

Could it really be called a failure when you lose 2 starting RBs, a very good blocking TE (Allen) and a make shift offensive line?

[crazycolt1]

Unfortunately statements like this don't go over well on team message boards. The idea is to talk up the current player, coach, or GM and talk down the former player, coach, or GM.

 

If the shoe was on the other foot then most people here would say that they liked Arians more. Bruce left the building; so now, he was obviously never good to begin with. 

 

I am with you though. I hope Pep can become as good as Arians one day, but that day is not today. It will take some time.

I don't think Colt fans have the attitude that Arians was no good as you say. I think it was more the danger that Luck was put in with the type of offense he ran. Had Luck not been so good at avoiding the rush and had the strength to take the hits he was taking he would have been on the IR.

[crazycolt1]

I disagree with you.

 

Sounds to me like you are taking offense to me having an opinion.

As I read your comment you seem to lack the ability to respect of even consider anyone's point of view but your own. Members have explained themselves and you don't debate, you argue. Just like this comment you made. If someone don't share your opinion you either argue or point the finger. There are two sides to every coin but you seem to think it's heads on both sides.

[Jason_]

Exactly, and this cannot be overstated.

 

Whilst Chudzinski will not be involved in playcalling activites, he will have a big part to play in the refinement of the offensive playbook, which, in my opinion, was much too lacking in versatility and dynamicness last year.

 

I think we will see a bit of a shift in offensive philosophy this year, and that is a big reason for the Chudzinski hire.

 

I don't disagree with you, but I wanted to make the point that the lack of versatility and dynamic in the offense may not have been because of deficiencies in Pep Hamilton or his offense.  It could very well have been due to that being his first year with the team installing his offense (which would make sense considering they opened things up more as the season went along..aka players becoming more familiar with the new offense) injuries to key personnel, and the inept play of the interior OL.

[AntonMcG]

I don't disagree with you, but I wanted to make the point that the lack of versatility and dynamic in the offense may not have been because of deficiencies in Pep Hamilton or his offense.  It could very well have been due to that being his first year with the team installing his offense (which would make sense considering they opened things up more as the season went along..aka players becoming more familiar with the new offense) injuries to key personnel, and the inept play of the interior OL.

 

Yes that was most likely part of the issue, and Allen especially was a huge loss is he is probably the most versatile player in our offense. However, there was clearly a lack of imagination at times with the playcalling... it would be fine if we at least tried and failed, but we were slow, lumbering and predictable until we had no choice but to open things up.

 

Hopefully things get a little more dynamic this year.

[crazycolt1]

Yes that was most likely part of the issue, and Allen especially was a huge loss is he is probably the most versatile player in our offense. However, there was clearly a lack of imagination at times with the playcalling... it would be fine if we at least tried and failed, but we were slow, lumbering and predictable until we had no choice but to open things up.

 

Hopefully things get a little more dynamic this year.

I share your thoughts as well But we must keep in mind that this Colt team is only two seasons away from a total rebuild. Pagano avoided the word rebuild but we all know that is what it was. There are only 7 players left on this team that was here with the 2-14 season. Taking a closer look the Colts played exceptionally well with that in mind. Injuries and changes in coaches were played through yet still posted seasons that some thought were impossible. Pep was new to the NFL last year so he had growing pains just like everyone else. Too many fans keep looking at what wasn't done while overlooking what was done.

[BlueShoe]

As I read your comment you seem to lack the ability to respect of even consider anyone's point of view but your own. Members have explained themselves and you don't debate, you argue. Just like this comment you made. If someone don't share your opinion you either argue or point the finger. There are two sides to every coin but you seem to think it's heads on both sides.

Who are you, to try and analyze someone on a message board?

If I agreed with you then I am sure this would be a different conversation.

Also, your response breaks the rules, because you are attacking me instead of what I said.

If you want to know my stance then go back and read what I wrote. I am not going to repeat myself in every post so that you are accommodated.

[lollygagger8]

Let's see.....

 

We added Chud. We get Wayne, Allen, Ballard and Bradshaw back, and Richardson gets a whole preseason with the playbook. 

 

Plus we added (by subtraction) by getting rid of Satele and McGlynn.

 

That's taking several steps in the right direction in my book. 

[dgambill]

I will never understand why coaches are so reluctant to change. Anyone with two eyes could see the offense was better under Arians. You have one of the best QB's in the league and you want to power run....ok

While I agree Arians is a good coach and I like his offense we don't have the personel to run it properly. AL is a big dude but he isn't Big Ben big...and even so see how banged up he always was by the playoffs...limping around. AL took way too many hits holding the ball waiting on those verticle routes. If we want Andrew to progress to the point he is the best qb in the league we have to one keep him healthy and two give him easier offense until he can progress to that. Early years they didn't trust Ben throwing more than 15 times a game...by the end he was chucking it 35 times a game. I think Luck is better off having a balanced attack and his improvement last year with completion % and lower turnovers shows. You give him the ball and ask him to do too much too soon....and you end up with 7 turnovers in 2 games. He isn't Tom Brady/Peyton Manning yet....someday we will be able to lean on him like that...but for now...balanced is golden.

[TKnight24]

Open your eyes...

Arians is a horrid offensive play caller. He gets his QBs killed and entrenchs them with bad habits. He repeatedly has done this and never has shown anything else.

All that aside he is one heck of a head coach he can motivate and gather a team. I'm glad he's doing great in Arizona and I'm glad he got us through our year of no Pagano. But I dont miss his offense at all.

Not even a good head coach. Arizona's defense has been good for the past 2-3 seasons, just no offense

They're only relevant now cause Arians name. That defense was flying under the radar until a name coach came there. Wisenhunt (spellcheck) built that defense, not Arians

Don't understand the praises he gets when he's horrible as a play caller & coach.

Best thing he is is a motivator, that's it. Carson Palmer much like Andrew his rookie year threw numerous interceptions. Even threw 4 against the Seahawks but we all know how average the hawks offense is so they couldn't win the game.

Andrew Luck made Bruce Arians the HC candidate not the other way around. All his years in Pittsburgh he NEVER was talked about as a potenial HC. Then all of a sudden a rookie out of Stanford comes in & now Bruce Arians is the man. Give me a break. Go look at some of the throws Andrew made his rookie year & tell me Bruce play calling is great.

Andrew's making throws with Clay Matthews hanging on his arm, plays like that has NOTHING to do with the coach. Sick of the praises he gets when he's done NOTHING to earn them

[BrentMc11]

While I agree Arians is a good coach and I like his offense we don't have the personel to run it properly. AL is a big dude but he isn't Big Ben big...and even so see how banged up he always was by the playoffs...limping around. AL took way too many hits holding the ball waiting on those verticle routes. If we want Andrew to progress to the point he is the best qb in the league we have to one keep him healthy and two give him easier offense until he can progress to that. Early years they didn't trust Ben throwing more than 15 times a game...by the end he was chucking it 35 times a game. I think Luck is better off having a balanced attack and his improvement last year with completion % and lower turnovers shows. You give him the ball and ask him to do too much too soon....and you end up with 7 turnovers in 2 games. He isn't Tom Brady/Peyton Manning yet....someday we will be able to lean on him like that...but for now...balanced is golden.

Good post, but Andrew is darn close to Big Ben....

 

Ben is 6' 5 241 and Andrew is 6' 4"  240.....I would not like to get hit by Andrew....

[dgambill]

Good post, but Andrew is darn close to Big Ben....

 

Ben is 6' 5 241 and Andrew is 6' 4"  240.....I would not like to get hit by Andrew....

I think Ben weighs a bit more than that....thats like when we used to ADD weight to our guys on the program lol...I agree Andrew is plenty big enough but for some reason he still doesn't seem as big as Ben...maybe its just me but I think they are short changing Ben a good 20 lbs. And no...not after that hit he put on that guy in college...I wouldn't either...but I also don't want to see him standing back there like a statue yet either. Holding the ball 5-6 seconds in the modern NFL is a recipe for disaster if you ask me...and thats what we had to do too much with Arians.

[BrentMc11]

I think Ben weighs a bit more than that....thats like when we used to ADD weight to our guys on the program lol...I agree Andrew is plenty big enough but for some reason he still doesn't seem as big as Ben...maybe its just me but I think they are short changing Ben a good 20 lbs. And no...not after that hit he put on that guy in college...I wouldn't either...but I also don't want to see him standing back there like a statue yet either. Holding the ball 5-6 seconds in the modern NFL is a recipe for disaster if you ask me...and thats what we had to do too much with Arians.

I forgot who mentioned last week how big Andrew was....whether it was Swoope or Moncrief.  Ben is big and slow....Andrew can run ya over....(Hopefully he will not be doing much of that....

[AntonMcG]

Not even a good head coach. Arizona's defense has been good for the past 2-3 seasons, just no offense

They're only relevant now cause Arians name. That defense was flying under the radar until a name coach came there. Wisenhunt (spellcheck) built that defense, not Arians

Don't understand the praises he gets when he's horrible as a play caller & coach.

Best thing he is is a motivator, that's it. Carson Palmer much like Andrew his rookie year threw numerous interceptions. Even threw 4 against the Seahawks but we all know how average the hawks offense is so they couldn't win the game.

Andrew Luck made Bruce Arians the HC candidate not the other way around. All his years in Pittsburgh he NEVER was talked about as a potenial HC. Then all of a sudden a rookie out of Stanford comes in & now Bruce Arians is the man. Give me a break. Go look at some of the throws Andrew made his rookie year & tell me Bruce play calling is great.

Andrew's making throws with Clay Matthews hanging on his arm, plays like that has NOTHING to do with the coach. Sick of the praises he gets when he's done NOTHING to earn them

I am just going to place my palm on my face before reading your comments from now on to save time.

[TKnight24]

I am just going to place my palm on my face before reading your comments from now on to save time.

Good for you :clap: :clap:

[crazycolt1]

Who are you, to try and analyze someone on a message board?

If I agreed with you then I am sure this would be a different conversation.

Also, your response breaks the rules, because you are attacking me instead of what I said.

If you want to know my stance then go back and read what I wrote. I am not going to repeat myself in every post so that you are accommodated.

Instead of thinking about my comment all you did was reply with a negative comment like all you want to do is argue. Your actions tell exactly what the meaning of my comment's was referring to. I have more than once ruffled some feathers in here but at least when my faults were brought up I was man enough to take the criticism and move on without further problems. There is no need for me to analyze anything you say. You speak for yourself. Breaking the rules? Really? So your back and forth comments that are not debates are OK? There will be no need to comment to me any farther in this matter. I am happy to overlook you and put you on ignore. Have a great day.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I get amused sometimes when we talk about coaches, OC's, and their schemes.  This time, I was prompted to thinking and comparing Bruce Arians, vs. Norv Turner.  Preamble-  Arians and Turner are descendant disciples of the Air Coryell vertical passing scheme; which was itself a modified Sid Gillman philosophy.  Arians learned it from Tom Moore, and Turner from Ernie Zampese.  Now for the funny part - (at least, it was to me)

 

How do you Feel about Bruce Arians as an Offense Coordinator?

How do you Feel about Bruce Arians as a Head Coach?

 

How do you Feel about Norv Turner as an Offense Coordinator?

How do you Feel about Norv Turner as a Head Coach?

 

I'm going to mention something here that will get me in trouble.  But it is true.  Luck, as a rookie, was not quite mature and adjusted to the NFL game to take maximum advantage of Arians scheme's.  Luck's talent and on the fly learning made success stories, not just as the season progressed, but often as each game progressed.  As a disciple of Tom Moore, Arians had constructed a fairly quarterback-friendly (depends on your definition, this is from a QB perspective) offense that places the onus on the signal caller to make sound decisions at the line. From calling pass protections to pointing out potential hot reads, Arians system makes the quarterback accountable for all aspects of the offense.  Luck often targeted the 1 read too long and not check down to the safety valve, or misread a blitz/defense and called the wrong protections.  Usually these mistakes were costly, which made folks mad (interception, or big time QB hits- 122 I believe all year 2012) to his body. There were many times Luck came off the field yelling 'my bad' and Arians pat him on the head and saying there are times to look for and go for the homerun, and that spot wasn't it.  Of course the O line was horrific then too.  So, there's blame to share all around that year, not just Bruce.

 

Interesting factoid, right after Arians took over for Pagano, he was contemplating how to win the next game.  His son Jake came to Indy and the conversation took place-

 

* At lunch Tuesday, Arians confided that he was contemplating a big decision.

“Really? Second day on the job?” Jake said.

 

“I’m thinking of going no-huddle against the Packers. I think it’s the only way we can beat them,” Arians said.

 

“With a rookie quarterback?” Jake asked.

 

“He ain’t the one I’m worried about,” Arians replied. *

 

So, Arians knew what he was going to get from his QB, and he expected much of it to be quite good, rookie or no.  If not for Pagano's misfortune, Arians (a prostate cancer survivor as well) would never would have gotten the opportunity to get a HC job- one he is being praised for right now. 

[Surge89]

I get amused sometimes when we talk about coaches, OC's, and their schemes. This time, I was prompted to thinking and comparing Bruce Arians, vs. Norv Turner. Preamble- Arians and Turner are descendant disciples of the Air Coryell vertical passing scheme; which was itself a modified Sid Gillman philosophy. Arians learned it from Tom Moore, and Turner from Ernie Zampese. Now for the funny part - (at least, it was to me)

How do you Feel about Bruce Arians as an Offense Coordinator?

How do you Feel about Bruce Arians as a Head Coach?

How do you Feel about Norv Turner as an Offense Coordinator?

How do you Feel about Norv Turner as a Head Coach?

I'm going to mention something here that will get me in trouble. But it is true. Luck, as a rookie, was not quite mature and adjusted to the NFL game to take maximum advantage of Arians scheme's. Luck's talent and on the fly learning made success stories, not just as the season progressed, but often as each game progressed. As a disciple of Tom Moore, Arians had constructed a fairly quarterback-friendly (depends on your definition, this is from a QB perspective) offense that places the onus on the signal caller to make sound decisions at the line. From calling pass protections to pointing out potential hot reads, Arians system makes the quarterback accountable for all aspects of the offense. Luck often targeted the 1 read too long and not check down to the safety valve, or misread a blitz/defense and called the wrong protections. Usually these mistakes were costly, which made folks mad (interception, or big time QB hits- 122 I believe all year 2012) to his body. There were many times Luck came off the field yelling 'my bad' and Arians pat him on the head and saying there are times to look for and go for the homerun, and that spot wasn't it. Of course the O line was horrific then too. So, there's blame to share all around that year, not just Bruce.

Interesting factoid, right after Arians took over for Pagano, he was contemplating how to win the next game. His son Jake came to Indy and the conversation took place-

* At lunch Tuesday, Arians confided that he was contemplating a big decision.

“Really? Second day on the job?” Jake said.

“I’m thinking of going no-huddle against the Packers. I think it’s the only way we can beat them,” Arians said.

“With a rookie quarterback?” Jake asked.

“He ain’t the one I’m worried about,” Arians replied. *

So, Arians knew what he was going to get from his QB, and he expected much of it to be quite good, rookie or no. If not for Pagano's misfortune, Arians (a prostate cancer survivor as well) would never would have gotten the opportunity to get a HC job- one he is being praised for right now.

No doubt there was plenty of blame to go around. But...

Arians offense empowers the QB, which leads to great things and really bad habits. Even Peyton had his share of bad habits created from his own choices. But my deal is I would rather have a QB that is coachable than a one man hero act attempting to save the day. When Luck is older and seen more things he can take more control but right now we aren't paying him to do so. Let's get some coaching perspective and let the guys do their job.

The Norv and Arians comparison is very interesting indeed :-)

[Jason_]

Not even a good head coach. Arizona's defense has been good for the past 2-3 seasons, just no offense

They're only relevant now cause Arians name. That defense was flying under the radar until a name coach came there. Wisenhunt (spellcheck) built that defense, not Arians

Don't understand the praises he gets when he's horrible as a play caller & coach.

Best thing he is is a motivator, that's it. Carson Palmer much like Andrew his rookie year threw numerous interceptions. Even threw 4 against the Seahawks but we all know how average the hawks offense is so they couldn't win the game.

Andrew Luck made Bruce Arians the HC candidate not the other way around. All his years in Pittsburgh he NEVER was talked about as a potenial HC. Then all of a sudden a rookie out of Stanford comes in & now Bruce Arians is the man. Give me a break. Go look at some of the throws Andrew made his rookie year & tell me Bruce play calling is great.

Andrew's making throws with Clay Matthews hanging on his arm, plays like that has NOTHING to do with the coach. Sick of the praises he gets when he's done NOTHING to earn them

 

Interestingly enough, during all of his years in Pittsburgh, Arians never worked for a HC who contracted leukemia and had to sit out the remainder of the regular season allowing Bruce to take over.  But I'm sure Arians getting a HC job the year immediately following that exact scenario taking place is just a coincidence right?  It was all Andrew Luck. 

 

Sarcasm off

[Valpo2004]

Bruce Arians - 2 Super Bowl appearances and 1 ring. Coach of the year as an interim head coach. Led the Arizona Cardinals to 10 wins as a head coach, with his offense. 

 

Yeah, he sucks!

 

Bruce Arians system is tough on a QB and not really one I want when we are looking at keeping our franchise QB healthy.  

 

I like Bruce as a guy and I think he did a great job as a head coach.  But I'm not a fan of his offensive system.

 

The guy has essentially in the past said that he doesn't believe in the role of RB's as pass catchers.  So he took a rookie QB, made him throw deep on nearly every snap and hung him out to dry with no one to check it down to.  

 

And IMO that only worked because of just how good Andrew really is.  

[Superman]

I get amused sometimes when we talk about coaches, OC's, and their schemes.  This time, I was prompted to thinking and comparing Bruce Arians, vs. Norv Turner.  Preamble-  Arians and Turner are descendant disciples of the Air Coryell vertical passing scheme; which was itself a modified Sid Gillman philosophy.  Arians learned it from Tom Moore, and Turner from Ernie Zampese.  Now for the funny part - (at least, it was to me)

 

How do you Feel about Bruce Arians as an Offense Coordinator?

How do you Feel about Bruce Arians as a Head Coach?

 

How do you Feel about Norv Turner as an Offense Coordinator?

How do you Feel about Norv Turner as a Head Coach?

 

I'm going to mention something here that will get me in trouble.  But it is true.  Luck, as a rookie, was not quite mature and adjusted to the NFL game to take maximum advantage of Arians scheme's.  Luck's talent and on the fly learning made success stories, not just as the season progressed, but often as each game progressed.  As a disciple of Tom Moore, Arians had constructed a fairly quarterback-friendly (depends on your definition, this is from a QB perspective) offense that places the onus on the signal caller to make sound decisions at the line. From calling pass protections to pointing out potential hot reads, Arians system makes the quarterback accountable for all aspects of the offense.  Luck often targeted the 1 read too long and not check down to the safety valve, or misread a blitz/defense and called the wrong protections.  Usually these mistakes were costly, which made folks mad (interception, or big time QB hits- 122 I believe all year 2012) to his body. There were many times Luck came off the field yelling 'my bad' and Arians pat him on the head and saying there are times to look for and go for the homerun, and that spot wasn't it.  Of course the O line was horrific then too.  So, there's blame to share all around that year, not just Bruce.

 

Interesting factoid, right after Arians took over for Pagano, he was contemplating how to win the next game.  His son Jake came to Indy and the conversation took place-

 

* At lunch Tuesday, Arians confided that he was contemplating a big decision.

“Really? Second day on the job?” Jake said.

 

“I’m thinking of going no-huddle against the Packers. I think it’s the only way we can beat them,” Arians said.

 

“With a rookie quarterback?” Jake asked.

 

“He ain’t the one I’m worried about,” Arians replied. *

 

So, Arians knew what he was going to get from his QB, and he expected much of it to be quite good, rookie or no.  If not for Pagano's misfortune, Arians (a prostate cancer survivor as well) would never would have gotten the opportunity to get a HC job- one he is being praised for right now. 

 

I liked this post, then unliked it, just so I could like it again. Do you have a link to the story about prepping for the Packers game? I vaguely remember that...

 

As you said, most people consider Norv Turner to be a good coordinator, poor head coach. Many of us here think Arians is a better head coach than coordinator. They are disciples of the same offensive system. It's ironic, on the surface.

 

But when you dig deeper, you notice several distinctions in philosophy. For example, Norv Turner likes to throw the ball to his backs; Arians doesn't. That's huge when you have a leaky offensive line and a young QB who would benefit from having an easy dumpoff option more often. Norv Turner also uses different route combinations on third downs. So while they were both trimmed from the same branch, they've shot off in different directions in some respects. You and I discussed Arians' offensive schemes a lot at the end of the 2012 season, so I know you've given this a lot of thought; hopefully you see my expressions the same way.

 

There's no doubt that Luck benefited from Arians' tutelage in 2012. Arians recognized that he had a special talent at QB, and allowed him to spread his wings, despite his deficiencies and lack of experience. Luck learned a lot from his mistakes and growing pains, and his decision-making late in 2012 and into 2013 showed as much. He also showed his ability to make plays, rather than being tethered to a conservative approach. That's why such a young offense was able to be so effective on third down, because Arians took advantage of Luck's playmaking ability. I think that approach helped Luck grow up, so to speak, and it will pay dividends throughout his career.

 

It also had its downsides, as you mention: lots of turnovers and QB hits. But the good outweighed the bad, and again, I think that year of Arians will benefit Luck for a long time.

 

I don't like Arians' offensive gameplans and playcalling, and there are things about his philosophy that I absolutely hate. So I'm glad that he moved on, and I'm happy for him as well. He did a good job filling in for Pagano, and I think his aggressive approach helped raise our ceiling in 2012. I'm grateful for his contributions, but I'm glad he's in Arizona now. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

I liked this post, then unliked it, just so I could like it again. Do you have a link to the story about prepping for the Packers game? I vaguely remember that...

 

As you said, most people consider Norv Turner to be a good coordinator, poor head coach. Many of us here think Arians is a better head coach than coordinator. They are disciples of the same offensive system. It's ironic, on the surface.

 

But when you dig deeper, you notice several distinctions in philosophy. For example, Norv Turner likes to throw the ball to his backs; Arians doesn't. That's huge when you have a leaky offensive line and a young QB who would benefit from having an easy dumpoff option more often. Norv Turner also uses different route combinations on third downs. So while they were both trimmed from the same branch, they've shot off in different directions in some respects. You and I discussed Arians' offensive schemes a lot at the end of the 2012 season, so I know you've given this a lot of thought; hopefully you see my expressions the same way.

 

There's no doubt that Luck benefited from Arians' tutelage in 2012. Arians recognized that he had a special talent at QB, and allowed him to spread his wings, despite his deficiencies and lack of experience. Luck learned a lot from his mistakes and growing pains, and his decision-making late in 2012 and into 2013 showed as much. He also showed his ability to make plays, rather than being tethered to a conservative approach. That's why such a young offense was able to be so effective on third down, because Arians took advantage of Luck's playmaking ability. I think that approach helped Luck grow up, so to speak, and it will pay dividends throughout his career.

 

It also had its downsides, as you mention: lots of turnovers and QB hits. But the good outweighed the bad, and again, I think that year of Arians will benefit Luck for a long time.

 

I don't like Arians' offensive gameplans and playcalling, and there are things about his philosophy that I absolutely hate. So I'm glad that he moved on, and I'm happy for him as well. He did a good job filling in for Pagano, and I think his aggressive approach helped raise our ceiling in 2012. I'm grateful for his contributions, but I'm glad he's in Arizona now. 

There, I used 3 likes for yours. 

 

I fully appreciate people opinion on O schemes and respect those preferring a Bill Walsh / West Coast derived system rather than one derive from Don Coryell / Vertical passing attack.  We did discuss a lot, and i learned much from that and helped me adjust for 2013. ;)

 

Norv has changed some off the scheme, I wonder if his tight end wasn't stellar and his RB was?  I know his receivers were tall leapers, not Charlie Joiner-esque. I'll look into it further.  Coryell had Fouts, Joiner, and Winslow. Arians had Luck, Fleener, Allen, and Reggie Wayne (maybe the big reason for the Pagano plea to Reggie to re-sign with us).  Arians had weapons (and an emerging TY) so need to use RB's in the passing scheme.  I know folks were mad because they were called to stay in to help O line block, and often didn't release in time to be an effective safety valve.  So Luck was forcing it downfield because the RB wasn't clear into an open zone yet. I get it.  Other times, the RB was on a late dig or in the flat and Luck threw it into coverage anyway.  Bruce didn't throw it, Luck did. and I know some fans feels it is because of that playcall that Luck did it.  But I just want to point out, coaches know there have to be options, and incorporate them.  It isn't always run correctly, and sometimes the QB doesn't see it and makes a wrong choice.  It just don't agree it was 98% Bruce, 1.75% O line, and 0.25% Luck, is what I'm getting at.  ;)

 

Oh yeah, link-

 

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/20130719arizona-cardinals-head-coach-bruce-arians-style-years-making.html

 

This, and many other articles I researched before 2012 is what got me into looking into the schemes and trees of coaching, and formed my positions.