The Center Position

[Naptown Lifer]

Dont get me wrong i dont have a problem with any of the signings even costa, but none of the offensive free agent additions will make a lick of difference if the interior o-line doesnt improve, and we cant run the ball and give andrew time to throw. Now im not saying it wont improve. Im not saying even if we dont add high profile free agents it wont improve. Holmes was given a redshirt year almost, but he graded out positive and he was a contributer on at least one scoring drive that I know of in the playoffs.Donald Thomas will be back, and thornton will play his natural position where he can just maul people and not pull as much.

 

However if we do this were banking on a lot. Were banking on Khaled getting stronger and conditioned to avoid injuries. Were banking on Thomas not having problems with a torn quad. And, were banking on thorntons improvement and that he will be better at RG. So there is a gamble for all these guys, and costa isnt the best insurance policy (satele 2.0)

 

That being said I feel like the best option would be to take the gamble and not get impatient with these guys. The improvement between year one and two for linemen can be shockingly good. If we sign mack or de la puente I feel we are giving up prematurely on these guys. It would be easy to say screw it and sign mack out of fear of the line looking like last year, but i think the best option is to let these guys develop and maybe draft a linemen in the 2nd or 3rd round depending on whos there, but no reaching. 

 

Its a pretty tricky situation but IMO we should play it out, one more year at least. If it doesnt work Mack will be available again next year and will probably be sick of cleveland if they suck again, and we wont have to bid crazy high for him. As i see it the interior o-line as it stands right now will be better than last years due to returning healthy players, and the improvement of the rookies. What do you guys think?

[PrincetonTiger]

Huh?

[kjyb]

lol what is this.... i thought this was about nicks?!!

[Bluefire4]

Brad Wells.. is that you?

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Even though you didn't really comment on Nick's, I will. I think Nick's, if nothing else, will provide a bailout jumpball option for Andrew Luck. The guy has oven mitt hands and goes all out on every catch.

[kjyb]

Even though you didn't really comment on Nick's, I will. I think Nick's, if nothing else, will provide a bailout jumpball option for Andrew Luck. The guy has oven mitt hands and goes all out on every catch.

AGREED 

[Naptown Lifer]

Even though you didn't really comment on Nick's, I will. I think Nick's, if nothing else, will provide a bailout jumpball option for Andrew Luck. The guy has oven mitt hands and goes all out on every catch.

i love the nicks signings. my title was terrible and irrelevant really, i was just thinking out loud. I agree he will flourish here, but we wont see his full potential (and i believe have yet to see any receivers full potential) if Luck is running for his life because the interior o line sucks again.

[Naptown Lifer]

Brad Wells.. is that you?

clearly you dont follow brad wells, brad wells would never encourage passing on blowing away cap space on a free agent rated highly by PFF  to let a rookie continue to develop and see if they pan out.

[csmopar]

So we have yet another thread about how bad our interior line is.... like we didn't have 500 of those already?

[kjyb]

i love the nicks signings. my title was terrible and irrelevant really, i was just thinking out loud. I agree he will flourish here, but we wont see his full potential (and i believe have yet to see any receivers full potential) if Luck is running for his life because the interior o line sucks again.

ig your right but if you really think about it luck doesn't need time,two years stright w/o time he thrived 

[BlueCollarColts]

I don't get the interior oline talk.. It's the center spot, not the interior oline. Thornton got better as the year went on, and we get Donald Thomas back from injury

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

i love the nicks signings. my title was terrible and irrelevant really, i was just thinking out loud. I agree he will flourish here, but we wont see his full potential (and i believe have yet to see any receivers full potential) if Luck is running for his life because the interior o line sucks again.

I 100% agree with you. Doesn't seem like well have a run game or pass blocking Line this year...again.

[GoColtsGo5150]

Wosrt case scenario- we don't resign him next year and draft someone like Dorial Green Beckham ( so that's not exactly bad.)

[COLTS449]

If Nicks is his old self, he will make a HUGE difference to our team. Playing with Luck will help him too, obviously.

[ColtsLegacy]

Wosrt case scenario- we don't resign him next year and draft someone like Dorial Green Beckham ( so that's not exactly bad.)

Dorial Green Beckham? You think we'll have a top 5 pick next year?

[SteelCityColt]

To clarify you don't think the FAs will make a lick of difference because of the poor interior line but you also don't advocate replacing Holmes et al to give them chance to develop.

So are you saying as shouldn't have signed the likes of FAs such as Nicks or Costa till next season? In addition if the chance to a acquire Mack or BDP came up we should likewise pass.

Just making sure I understand you here.

[GoColtsGo5150]

Dorial Green Beckham? You think we'll have a top 5 pick next year?

Not unless he falls( due to his arrests etc) or we trade up Julio Jones styles.

[SteelCityColt]

So we have yet another thread about how bad our interior line is.... like we didn't have 500 of those already?

It's like bad weather, gives people something to talk about

[B~Town]

Watch Nicks play Eli just tossed it up to him every time he got in trouble . It doesn't help the line but having a guy who can go get it makes a difference any way you look at it . 

[jb17]

Not only do we get thomas back at LG, holmes will most likely be our center, thornton at RG, dwayne allen back at TE along with vick ballard improving his pass blocking, trich actually learning the playbook and ahmad bradshaw's ability to be a pass blocker, our offensive unit will be very improved. Hopefully no freak injuries occur this year.

[Naptown Lifer]

I 100% agree with you. Doesn't seem like well have a run game or pass blocking Line this year...again.

It looks bleak, but i feel like the best choice is to let the guys pan out and see rather than over pay for mack this year, at the worst we can sign him next year and probably for less

 

To clarify you don't think the FAs will make a lick of difference because of the poor interior line but you also don't advocate replacing Holmes et al to give them chance to develop.

So are you saying as shouldn't have signed the likes of FAs such as Nicks or Costa till next season? In addition if the chance to a acquire Mack or BDP came up we should likewise pass.

Just making sure I understand you here.

My post was kind of all over the place. Let me clarify. I think theres a good chance we could suck inside, but there is an equal chance we could be set with what we have. I think the best course of action is to take the gamble, get our injured players back, and see if our rookies improve. Maybe draft a good linemen if they fall to us. I wanted to present both arguments and show that we have a strong argument either way we go, therefore making a decision to bring in high priced veteran linemen is a difficult one to make.

 

ig your right but if you really think about it luck doesn't need time,two years stright w/o time he thrived 

Oh for sure, and thats the scary part. Imagine Luck with 5+ seconds to throw deep everytime like bradys outstanding line! Having an outstanding line can make your recievers look sooo much better than they are. No DB can cover a receiver forever; they will eventually get open, and our receiving corps is already baller.

[MrNLM]

Dont get me wrong i dont have a problem with any of the signings even costa, but none of the offensive free agent additions will make a lick of difference if the interior o-line doesnt improve, and we cant run the ball and give andrew time to throw. Now im not saying it wont improve. Im not saying even if we dont add high profile free agents it wont improve. Holmes was given a redshirt year almost, but he graded out positive and he was a contributer on at least one scoring drive that I know of in the playoffs.Donald Thomas will be back, and thornton will play his natural position where he can just maul people and not pull as much.

 

However if we do this were banking on a lot. Were banking on Khaled getting stronger and conditioned to avoid injuries. Were banking on Thomas not having problems with a torn quad. And, were banking on thorntons improvement and that he will be better at RG. So there is a gamble for all these guys, and costa isnt the best insurance policy (satele 2.0)

 

That being said I feel like the best option would be to take the gamble and not get impatient with these guys. The improvement between year one and two for linemen can be shockingly good. If we sign mack or de la puente I feel we are giving up prematurely on these guys. It would be easy to say screw it and sign mack out of fear of the line looking like last year, but i think the best option is to let these guys develop and maybe draft a linemen in the 2nd or 3rd round depending on whos there, but no reaching. 

 

Its a pretty tricky situation but IMO we should play it out, one more year at least. If it doesnt work Mack will be available again next year and will probably be sick of cleveland if they suck again, and we wont have to bid crazy high for him. As i see it the interior o-line as it stands right now will be better than last years due to returning healthy players, and the improvement of the rookies. What do you guys think?

Who says Mack will be available next year? If you think he will be you are mistaken. He MAY sign a one year deal NOW(transition tag or offer sheet) but, he WILL sign a multi-year deal during the season OR be traded. 

 

So, NO, Mack will not be available next year to "bid crazy high for him".

 

TBH, If the Colts are serious about trying to get Mack... they have two options. Sign and trade OR pay Mack a buttload of money. I hope they try to sign and trade for him but, if that fails... I say throw 13 million in his face and say "LETS GO GET A RING, MACKY BOY!"

[jvan1973]

Who says Mack will be available next year? If you think he will be you are mistaken. He MAY sign a one year deal NOW(transition tag or offer sheet) but, he WILL sign a multi-year deal during the season OR be traded.

So, NO, Mack will not be available next year to "bid crazy high for him".

TBH, If the Colts are serious about trying to get Mack... they have two options. Sign and trade OR pay Mack a buttload of money. I hope they try to sign and trade for him but, if that fails... I say throw 13 million in his face and say "LETS GO GET A RING, MACKY BOY!"

who is going to trade for a guy you can get in free agency at the end of the year.

[Naptown Lifer]

Who says Mack will be available next year? If you think he will be you are mistaken. He MAY sign a one year deal NOW(transition tag or offer sheet) but, he WILL sign a multi-year deal during the season OR be traded. 

 

So, NO, Mack will not be available next year to "bid crazy high for him".

 

TBH, If the Colts are serious about trying to get Mack... they have two options. Sign and trade OR pay Mack a buttload of money. I hope they try to sign and trade for him but, if that fails... I say throw 13 million in his face and say "LETS GO GET A RING, MACKY BOY!"

mack doesnt seem to be enjoying cleveland. the chances of him hitting free agency are a lot higher after next year

 

like jvan says no one is trading for mack if he signs the transition tag with cleveland, whats the motivation

[austriancolt]

Donald Thomas ist coming back from a season ending injury, Hugh Thornton flashed some talent but is still a questionmark and at Center we have Khaled Holmes who missed his rookie season and Phil Costa who played not many games the last two years. I see a lot of questionsmarks right now still if both Thornton and Thomas prove to be good starters we are just one injury away from old troubles. I hope we can sign another quality veteran Center (DLP, Mack...) and draft another Guard with one of our first picks. 

[NewEra]

Thomas and Thorton are good starters if both stay healthy. Holmes didn't miss the rookie season. He didn't play much but was able to practice with the team the entire year. Costa, no idea on that one. I'd guess for back up. Chance to play for a spot.

[MrNLM]

who is going to trade for a guy you can get in free agency at the end of the year.

Did you even read my post? HE WONT BE A FREE AGENT!

[jvan1973]

Did you even read my post? HE WONT BE A FREE AGENT!

And you know this how? Just because you type it in all CAPS doesn't make it so..

[MrNLM]

mack doesnt seem to be enjoying cleveland. the chances of him hitting free agency are a lot higher after next year

 

like jvan says no one is trading for mack if he signs the transition tag with cleveland, whats the motivation

I guess we just see it differently and that's ok. I stand by what i said though.

[MrNLM]

And you know this how?

Well, if he was I would be happy... I just think it is very unlikely. I feel confident in my saying he will not be a free agent.

[jvan1973]

Well, if he was I would be happy... I just think it is very unlikely. I feel confident in my saying he will not be a free agent.

Based on what? Tagged players hit free agency at seasons end all the time

[Naptown Lifer]

Well, if he was I would be happy... I just think it is very unlikely. I feel confident in my saying he will not be a free agent.

thats great but that doesnt give you the right to shoot down my post like its completely out of the realm of possibility. no one is trading for mack when they can just sign him for nothing. why would they do that?

[MrNLM]

Based on what? Tagged players hit free agency at seasons end all the time

Mack, for whatever reason has openly stated that he would like to stay with Cleveland and get a deal done. They could not get a deal done in time before FA opened up so here we are now vying for his services. I feel like he was being honest when he said he would like to stay in Cleveland but, a buttload of money can change that in the coming days. However, if he gets a full season to negotiate with just Cleveland... I don't see him making it to free agency next year.

[jvan1973]

Mack, for whatever reason has openly stated that he would like to stay with Cleveland and get a deal done. They could not get a deal done in time before FA opened up so here we are now vying for his services. I feel like he was being honest when he said he would like to stay in Cleveland but, a buttload of money can change that in the coming days. However, if he gets a full season to negotiate with just Cleveland... I don't see him making it to free agency next year.

You could have said that from the beginning instead of spouting absolutes and typing in all CAPS

[MrNLM]

thats great but that doesnt give you the right to shoot down my post like its completely out of the realm of possibility. no one is trading for mack when they can just sign him for nothing. why would they do that?

Well, if Cleveland really feels like they might lose Mack whether it be now or next year then I could see them working with Mack and the new team in question to get some kind of compensation while keeping Mack's asking price in a fair range(for a Center) in regards to the new team.

[MrNLM]

You could have said that from the beginning instead of spouting absolutes and typing in all CAPS

I like caps... plus I just had a mocha frappe that has me ALL TYPES OF WIRED!!!        :36dancing:   

[Naptown Lifer]

Well, if Cleveland really feels like they might lose Mack whether it be now or next year then I could see them working with Mack and the new team in question to get some kind of compensation while keeping Mack's asking price in a fair range(for a Center) in regards to the new team.

i understand cleveland wants to get compensation for mack. the problem is no one is going to offer it because theyll be able to sign him irregardless of clevelands wishes

[MrNLM]

i understand cleveland wants to get compensation for mack. the problem is no one is going to offer it because theyll be able to sign him irregardless of clevelands wishes

Most likely you are right. I just thought this would be a way to keep the price down IF the Colts were looking to save the cash. I have stated that I don't think this team needs many draft picks especially if Mack coming to town was a sure thing. I have a feeling that after this season... the Colts will start stockpiling picks and moving back in drafts. Just a gut feeling with the way the team is shaping up.

[Superman]

Not only do we get thomas back at LG, holmes will most likely be our center, thornton at RG, dwayne allen back at TE along with vick ballard improving his pass blocking, trich actually learning the playbook and ahmad bradshaw's ability to be a pass blocker, our offensive unit will be very improved. Hopefully no freak injuries occur this year.

 

That's all great in a perfect world. But you're relying on one guy who has played something like 20 snaps in the NFL in the middle of that line, and who was hampered with injuries the past two years. To his right is a young guy who played okay at times last year, but still has some improvement to make. To his left is a guy coming back from a serious leg injury.

 

Dwayne Allen only moderately helps the run game, but not at all in the middle of the line. And that's assuming he's at 100%, which we all hope he will be. Ballard's blocking doesn't help the run game, and he's coming back from a serious leg injury as well. I'm assuming we get nothing out of Bradshaw; anything he does will be a pleasant surprise, a bonus toy in the cereal box.

 

We were plagued with serious, freak injuries last year. Let's assume that's not the case this year. We could still be hampered by nagging issues with Donald Thomas, Khaled Holmes, Dwayne Allen and Vick Ballard. As a matter of fact, I think we should proceed as if all of them will be at less than 100%. That's why I'd like to see a veteran interior lineman brought in to compete -- Phil Costa is not who I had in mind, but he's here, so I hope he does well. Will Montgomery and Jonathan Goodwin are still available, and could be good starters at center or guard. 

 

I think the pass blocking will be fine. It's the run blocking that's the problem, and that's usually the hardest issue to solve. There are ways to augment your pass protection and keep your QB clean, even if you're not great in the middle. But if you want to be able to run the ball effectively, you have to solve the center/guard situation. Maybe we have it solved with the young guys; I hope so. But I'd like to see us bring in a high quality stopgap to be sure.

[ColtJ82]

who is going to trade for a guy you can get in free agency at the end of the year.

If they do trade for him, it would have to be contingent on Mack signing a new deal.....which would essentially be trading a pick for the agreement that Cleveland won't match the contract offer.

 

To clarify, I should have placed "In my book, if they do trade for him, it would have to be contingent........" in the front of the sentence.